Protest against the LCBO -- Liquor Control Board of Ontario

guyser · April 8, 2014

The 05 study cited in this post, predicts a $200M annual increase in revenue through privatization.

Why would the govt NOT do this if that money were there? I suspect that the money wont be there as per Alta's experience.

The report suggests that tax revenue coupled with revenue garnered through the auction of limited term wholesale and retail licenses would lead to increased cash flow while limiting risk.

From page 64 of the report:

A little unsure here, the govt would NEVER give up the whsle side, all of us know that. Unless they are talking about purchasing and subsequent sale to another level of whlse'er then I am stumped.

Boges · April 8, 2014

Why would the govt NOT do this if that money were there?

COUGH! The Union.

Black Dog · April 8, 2014

That cannot be true. ALberta govt is still the wholesaler....so...?

They are the distributor, but Costco and Superstore have liquor outlets that sell cheap booze at a small markup from cost.

While some stores will, not all will, which goes against your idea of access no matter where one lives. In effect it would be two tier selling.

So the same as here, then? Two LCBOs of comparable size in similar areas will have quite different selections. Great example: there's a likbo on Yonge and Wellesely that has a dire beer and fancy wine selection, maybe the worst in town. Two blocks over at Maple Leaf Gardens, there's a similar sized store with a vast selection of craft brews and a generously-sized Vintages section.

Mighty AC · April 8, 2014

A little unsure here, the govt would NEVER give up the whsle side, all of us know that. Unless they are talking about purchasing and subsequent sale to another level of whlse'er then I am stumped.

Why shouldn't we give up the wholesale business? Can't we just tax each bottle, wholesale and retail earnings and collect and endless stream of licensing fees?

guyser · April 8, 2014

Why shouldn't we give up the wholesale business? Can't we just tax each bottle, wholesale and retail earnings and collect and endless stream of licensing fees?

All trueI suppose, but all the talk has been w end user , not the importer/wholesaler.

Black Dog · April 8, 2014

What I don't understand is the notion that privatization means giving up tax revenue. Booze will still be taxed at the same rates. I'd even suggest that privatizing liquor would reduce government costs (no unionized employees to keep sweet, no overhead on all those fancy stores). I dunno. I'm not nearly as hardcore on this issue as I am on breaking the beer Store. As an aside, it was something of an open secret in Alberta that privatizing booze was a way to reward longtime Tory loyalists in the business community (sorta like how a drug kingpin will give his most trusted underlings the busiest and most lucrative corner). Counterpoint: the greatest liquor store in the country (well, for beerheads) is in Edmonton.

The_Squid · April 9, 2014

What I don't understand is the notion that privatization means giving up tax revenue. Booze will still be taxed at the same rates. I'd even suggest that privatizing liquor would reduce government costs (no unionized employees to keep sweet, no overhead on all those fancy stores). I dunno. I'm not nearly as hardcore on this issue as I am on breaking the beer Store. As an aside, it was something of an open secret in Alberta that privatizing booze was a way to reward longtime Tory loyalists in the business community (sorta like how a drug kingpin will give his most trusted underlings the busiest and most lucrative corner). Counterpoint: the greatest liquor store in the country (well, for beerheads) is in Edmonton.

It's not just tax revenue... it's the markup from the wholesaler (exclusively ON taxpayer owned) to the sellers. All that profit would be gone. And the ability to set the price determines your profit. That would go to someone else...

There is still massive profit despite overhead and wages. That's why the gov't doesn't want to let go of the sales.

In BC, gov't runs the distribution and sets prices. But there are many more private liquor stores than gov't ones. But the gov't still has stores that occasionally have as good or better selection than most private stores (especially in smaller towns). And prices are generally better in gov't stores, but not always.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquor_Distribution_Branch

The really serious downside is the red tape involved with getting products into the LDB so they can be sold in either gov't or private stores.

Mighty AC · April 10, 2014

Generally, I don't like the idea of government entities competing with private business. IMO, if Ontario opens up the liquor retail business, it should sell it's stores and get out the way completely. However, I support privatizing the wholesale business too. Even without wholesale sales Ontario is expected to see an increase in revenue while eliminating risk. The industry will still be licensed and regulated by the government, which is necessary.

The_Squid · April 10, 2014

I do love the fact that you can be in Blind Channel http://goo.gl/maps/zKXAs and buy beer for the same price as the BC gov't liquor store in Vancouver.... (It's a liquor "outlet" for the BC gov't in the middle of nowhere). I would hate to see prices there if they marked it up themselves.... The governemnt liquor outlets are pretty much a public service!

Black Dog · April 10, 2014

It's not just tax revenue... it's the markup from the wholesaler (exclusively ON taxpayer owned) to the sellers. All that profit would be gone. And the ability to set the price determines your profit. That would go to someone else...

If they went with an Alberta/BC model where government controls distribution and pricing, I don't see the problem.

There is still massive profit despite overhead and wages. That's why the gov't doesn't want to let go of the sales.

I'm aware of that. But I don't see why we can't continue to tax in massive tax revenue without the business of running the retail side and insulting taxpayers by crowing about social responsibility while being addicted to booze revenue.

bleeding heart · April 14, 2014

Good question.

Boges · April 16, 2014

Bleep these guys.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/04/16/beer-store-commercial-convenience-stores_n_5159628.html

What a stupid ad. I'm glad it hurts, not helps there cause. I love how they just have the bottle of JD sitting there. No one is asking for JD to be available at corner stores . . . yet anyway.

Mighty AC · April 16, 2014

I'm happy to see that it has not been well received.

Boges · April 17, 2014

Another thing that was brought to my attention about this ad.

When was last time you saw a doh-y middle-aged white man was EVER at the till at a convenience store?

If they were being honest about this ad, they'd be labelled as racist. But this ad, IMHO is quite racist.

Edited April 17, 2014 by Boges

The_Squid · April 17, 2014

racist? How so?

You have to buy beer from a private monopoly owned by large multinational brewers??? No wonder it's difficult to find craft beer there!

I feel sorry for you poor bastards!

BC has some very stupid liquor laws which the gov't has promised to update... unfortunately, the gov't is screwing up already in the implementation of the reforms... but nothing like you guys have to put up with!

Boges · April 17, 2014

It's "sorta" racist because almost no convenience store I've every been too lately has a white person on the till.

These franchises are overwhelmingly run by minorities.

So to have the guy in this ad portrayed by some doh-ey/creepy white guy is completely misleading.

In all honestly, this tug-of-war is one between well-connected largely nepotistic Union Jobs vs. Hard Working minorities that work hard for very little.

Edited April 17, 2014 by Boges

Boges · April 21, 2014

More stupidness regarding the Beer Store debate.

http://www.torontosun.com/2014/04/18/why-moosehead-supports-the-beer-store

On the other hand, it is rare to witness sales to minors or the intoxicated from a government-operated liquor outlet or, in Ontario, The Beer Store (TBS).

I believe the overwhelming majority of Canadians want it that way.

Consumers should be aware that TBS and government liquor store employees are often well-trained, career professionals.

Responsible purchasing is important to them.

Liar!!!! You just have to pander to these outlets because they're the only place you can sell your product in this province. Oh and they fix their prices.

Everything these people say is infuriating.

Boges · May 16, 2014

What as stupid organization!

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2014/05/15/21674891.html

TORONTO - If you are buying booze at the LCBO, don't even think about letting your teenager carry it to the cash.

Turns out they have a rule that says anyone under 19 can't do that.

Ask Oakville's Angela Parsons.

She and her 17-year-old son Evan were over to pick up an eight-pack of beer at the LCBO store in Oakville, Ont., a week ago and found out the hard way.

"I didn't know there is such a rule," said Angela.

She does now.

Angela decided to purchase a small case of Guinness for her husband and when she started digging through her purse for her wallet, her helpful son picked up the case and put it on the counter for her.

"The first thing I heard was the clerk saying, 'Can I see your I.D.?'"

The question was for Evan.

Really, LCBO? The kid was just helping his mom after all.

Black Dog · May 16, 2014

It's "sorta" racist because almost no convenience store I've every been too lately has a white person on the till.

These franchises are overwhelmingly run by minorities.

So to have the guy in this ad portrayed by some doh-ey/creepy white guy is completely misleading.

In all honestly, this tug-of-war is one between well-connected largely nepotistic Union Jobs vs. Hard Working minorities that work hard for very little.

wut.

In Toronto, I've been to plenty of convenience stores staffed by "white" people (often Portuguese or Italian types). And even if 100 per cent of convenience stores were staffed by persons of colour, I don't see how it's racist to depict something otherwise.

It's a dumb ad, but there's no racism there.

Boges · May 16, 2014

Regardless, that ad is a mischaracterization of any Convenience Store worker I've ever seen.

I'm really disappointed Hudak hasn't said a peep about Beer in corner stores yet. That could really help him, polls show a good majority of people in Ontario want it.

Mighty AC · May 19, 2014

From what I understand he is favour of the status quo on this issue. The dude is a disaster on every level. This election would be a landslide if it wasn't for Tim.

Rue · June 2, 2014

A lot of you are making valid arguments as to how the price of liquor is regulated. I feel that issue can be corrected without doing away with the Liquor Board. As a general rule I do not want big government and prefer business be left to non government people but I believe with booze, the LLBO does a fantastic job protecting society from liquor being sold to minors and educating people on how to drink appropriately and the staff are very well educated and will advise you if asked which wine is good and still not expensive.

I do think the method in which pricing is regulated could be reformed yes.

I do not myself want the American system of anyone selling liquor to anyone.

That is a personal opinion. Many Canadians though look at the way booze is sold in the US and are uncomfortable with how for example it can be sold to clearly drunk people. Say what you want the LLBO polices the selling of alcohol in a way that prevents exploitation of minors and the vulnerable. I like that.

On a very serious note-if you want a certain wine imported talk to the LLBO about it. They will call you back and explain in detail what's involved in the current process of bringing in a wine or beer of your preference. I swear by Crystal, the beer of Cuba. I was upset when they stopped bringing it in. They claimed it was not selling and that is why they stopped ordering it. I might have had that same problem with a private store as well.

Sometimes not all the time supply and demand dictates what goes on the list of wines and beers. Whether that would change if it was totally privatized I am not sure. Some say it would not and the regulation issues many of you talk of are a distinct issue that can be addressed.