Shady Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 To the next day. What does that mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shwa Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 What does that mean? What do you mean, "what does that mean?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 To the next day. What do you expect? It means there's no end to it. It will just continue as a kind of sideshow, with the same political effectiveness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 It means there's no end to it. It will just continue as a kind of sideshow, with the same political effectiveness. Agreed...they will be relegated to the ranks of devoted but ineffective abortion protesters...even more so. The world will move on to the next thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 It means there's no end to it. It will just continue as a kind of sideshow, with the same political effectiveness. The same thing could have been said of almost every protest movement in history when they were in their early stages. Like I said... the potests are just a clearing house for public outrage. You are expecting this movement to be organized cause with some well defined goals and objectives. But its just a bunch of people that are angry and confused. They dont know whats wrong... hell... the worlds formost economists cant even agree on how to fix the system, or to what extent its broken. But that doesnt make that public outrage any less powerfull. When you are in charge of running an economy and you run it a way that makes a lot of people feel disenfranchised, and you abuse it in ways that are detrimental to others people will get pissed off and they will protest. If you piss off too many people you are done. History is jam packed full of examples of this. It doesnt matter if the angry people really understand what theyre talking about, it doesnt matter if they are wrong, and it doesnt matter if they are hipocrits, own iphones, or crap in porta-potties either. These protests are happening because the financial meltdown gave people a brief glance into how our murky and fraud saturated financial system, and the public and private components that operate it. Both the occupy and teaparty protest movements are the result of this. As things stand now these movements are fairly localized and fairly small. They dont represent much of a threat to the system. But events could cause this situation to escalate, and if it does people will start to get nervous about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 The same thing could have been said of almost every protest movement in history when they were in their early stages. I've read a little about the MLK protests, and they were well organized, well behaved and aimed at specific goals. Which protest do you refer to ? Like I said... the potests are just a clearing house for public outrage. You are expecting this movement to be organized cause with some well defined goals and objectives. But its just a bunch of people that are angry and confused. They dont know whats wrong... hell... the worlds formost economists cant even agree on how to fix the system, or to what extent its broken. So, it's a Tea Part of the left then. Ok. As things stand now these movements are fairly localized and fairly small. They dont represent much of a threat to the system. But events could cause this situation to escalate, and if it does people will start to get nervous about it. I'm nervous about it now. There's no dialogue, no negotiation that can happen from this so escalation is a foreseeable outcome. So then the sideshow would continue, albeit a darker version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Derek L Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 Occupy Victoria protesters given notice to vacate Monday Officials at the cities of Vancouver and Victoria have reached the end of their patience with Occupy protesters, but each city is trying a dramatically different tact to clear the Occupy sites.Victoria issued official notice to protesters Sunday telling them they had until noon Monday to clear out, and that the occupation conflicts with other planned events. Till high noon………hopefully the police get it wrapped up before the afternoon rush hour………Centennial square is just off Douglas street (main drag) and any demonstrations could certainly screw up traffic In Vancouver, city officials are hoping to negotiate an end to the occupation.The camping can’t continue, Vancouver City manager Penny Ballem told reporters in front of City Hall. “We think there will be co-operation,” she said.But that wasn’t as clear back at the anti-capitalism protest site in Vancouver, where the group’s spokesman Eric Hamilton-Smith was hoping a judge would refuse to issue a court injunction to remove protesters. He wanted a judge to instead look at the safety changes they had made and refuse the city’s request to shut down the Occupy site.Ballem said any changes, including erecting new tents, would violate an agreement the city already had with protesters. If negotiations fail with the Vancouver protesters, Ballem said the city could ask a court for an injunction under several legal frameworks including the fire or land use bylaws or the Trespass and Public Health Act.“We would like to find a situation where we can actually continue to support this protest, but not support an encampment,” she said, noting the City of Vancouver has long supported the right to protest and for people to gather peacefully. She said they could ask for the injunction as early as this week. This seems reasonable………..They can continue to protest, but no tent city……..everybody wins Several occupy protests around the world have ended in violence including in the United States, Australia and Italy. Will Vancouver and Victoria be the first to buck the trend? Can the occupiers show that they will respect public spaces, in which they can still protest, and have the maturity to leave without violence and the destruction of public and private property? Their response could very well shape further public opinion of their cause……….Remove the tent city, and continue to protest to their hearts content, could show the public that the “movement” is mature and respectful of it’s wishes, or they can revert to a mob mentality and trash the place……… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 I'm nervous about it now. There's no dialogue, no negotiation that can happen from this so escalation is a foreseeable outcome. So then the sideshow would continue, albeit a darker version. You say that as though it would be a bad thing....It wouldn't be. A good cleansing of the corporate right wing filth is much needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 (edited) ...Will Vancouver and Victoria be the first to buck the trend? Can the occupiers show that they will respect public spaces, in which they can still protest, and have the maturity to leave without violence and the destruction of public and private property? Why can't they just "protest" on line, since that alternate universe seems to be a favorite for organizing, blogging, and playing YouTube videos. Edited November 7, 2011 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 It wouldn't be. A good cleansing of the corporate right wing filth is much needed. What about the corporate left wing "filth"...is that OK? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 You say that as though it would be a bad thing.... It wouldn't be. A good cleansing of the corporate right wing filth is much needed. Not sure what you're talking about, but I don't think you're looking forward to protesters getting beaten and jailed over and over again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 Not sure what you're talking about, but I don't think you're looking forward to protesters getting beaten and jailed over and over again. You underestimate the resolve of the movement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 What about the corporate left wing "filth"...is that OK? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 You underestimate the resolve of the movement. How so? Will they be showing more resolve if they run away when the police show up to vacate them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Derek L Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 (edited) Why can't they just "protest" on line, since that alternate universe seems to be a favorite for organizing, blogging, and playing YouTube videos. Well, it looks like the peaceful solution won’t be sought by the Vancouver campers: Masked protesters infiltrate Occupy Vancouver gathering Nearly a dozen masked protesters dressed in black, and carrying flag poles and backpacks infiltrated the Occupy Vancouver gathering Sunday afternoon.Vancouver Police have increased their presence at the Vancouver Art Gallery and are monitoring the actions of the group closely. Roughly 200 protesters have made their way east on Pender Street, halting at the intersection of Pender and Hornby streets. The march, which began at the Occupy Vancouver camp at the art gallery, is being escorted by police mounted on bicycles. Speakers, greeted by enthusiastic applause, are taking turns denouncing development and exploitation of aboriginal territory. VPD has notified businesses in the area to be on alert as the march passes. Motorists are advised to avoid the area while the march is in progress. Enter the “Black Bloc”? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bAFITGnjrg Edited November 7, 2011 by Derek L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 So it seems that there will be violence, but there won't be a revolution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 Well, it looks like the peaceful solution won’t be sought by the Vancouver campers: ....Enter the “Black Bloc”? Then their fate is surely sealed....the Black Bloc is the kiss of death for any cause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 (edited) I've read a little about the MLK protests, and they were well organized, well behaved and aimed at specific goals. Which protest do you refer to ? So, it's a Tea Part of the left then. Ok. I'm nervous about it now. There's no dialogue, no negotiation that can happen from this so escalation is a foreseeable outcome. So then the sideshow would continue, albeit a darker version. Mike. Trying looking at these protests as a symptom that change might be necessary, or unavoidable, instead of expecting them to CAUSE the change. Kind of like a canary in a coal mine. And the reality is that the fractional reserve monetary system (which is what all these events in our economy are derived from) is the biggest power that exists in the world today. This system is utterly entrenched. Its not going to be brought down because of some negotiations we have with some protesters, or by some act of government. Theres two schools of thought on this. One is that everything is ok, and that no ammount of wealth concentration will be a problem, and that the system will continue and the economy will stay stable. Maybe they thing a few regulations or tweaks are needed. We can continue to address all of our economic problems with monetary expansion like Rome and Nazi Germany tried to do, but it will work this time! The other camp (the one Im in) believes that the system is NOT sustainable, and the closer that Iv looked at the system the more convinced I am that it cannot function in the absense of either strong economic growth, or massive monetary expansion. If you are in the first camp, then it would make sense for you to believe these protests will fizzle and die. We should return to fast and steady economic growth, there will be lots of jobs for everyone, and lots of tax revenues available to provide enough services to keep the poor from turning activist. If you are in the second camp like I am then it just doesnt matter. The system will change when it collapses under its own weight. Not a second sooner, and not a second later, and not because theres a bunch of people camping out in the park. While its collapsing though its going to destroy a lot of peoples lives and piss a lot of people off, and theyre going to take the streets. But they wont be the ones that CAUSE reform to happen. Reform will happen after the system collapses and we have to rebuild from the ground up. Until the control of the issue of currency and credit is restored to government and recognized as its most conspicuous and sacred responsibility, all talk of sovereignty of Parliament and of democracy is idle and futile... Once a nation parts with control of its credit, it matters not who makes the nation’s laws... Usury once in control will wreck any nation. William Lyon Mackenzie King Edited November 7, 2011 by dre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 So it seems that there will be violence, but there won't be a revolution. As is often the case....takes much higher ideals and social purpose to be successful at this. Blogs and videos just won't cut it....kids! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 How so? Will they be showing more resolve if they run away when the police show up to vacate them? Quit being obtuse.See Derek's posting above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 ...If you are in the second camp like I am then it just doesnt matter. The system will change when it collapses under its own weight. Not a second sooner, and not a second later, and not because theres a bunch of people camping out in the park. While its collapsing though its going to destroy a lot of peoples lives and piss a lot of people off, and theyre going to take the streets. But they wont be the ones that CAUSE reform to happen. Reform will happen after the system collapses and we have to rebuild from the ground up. Then we may as well wait for that to happen if the outcome is the same. What's the big hurry? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 So it seems that there will be violence, but there won't be a revolution. Ye of little faith...No surprises there, you're too far to the right to fully appreciate the support this movement has Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Derek L Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 So it seems that there will be violence, but there won't be a revolution. I agree………Once the folks in black hoodies start to appear, whatever remaining public support will go out the window Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Derek L Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 Then their fate is surely sealed....the Black Bloc is the kiss of death for any cause. Indeed. As soon as the first Starbucks or department store or bank window is smashed, that will be the end of the campground…….. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Derek L Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 (edited) Ye of little faith... No surprises there, you're too far to the right to fully appreciate the support this movement has What’s the final tally to date, between North American police forces and the Black Bloc? Edited November 7, 2011 by Derek L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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