Legal Possession of marijuana

[dre]

To others: if William Ashley is an example of what happens to people who do pot, I'd say we'd do well to work on keeping the number of people who do it in our society to a minimum.

Theres no emperical evidence that our drug laws have any effect on consumption at all. The only western country thats legalized drugs is Portugal, and drug related crimes went down, drug use went down, and the number of people seaking treatment went through the roof.

All these laws do is put billions of dollars into the hands of criminals, and deprive the government of a shitload of revenue.

[William Ashley]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/ontario/as-smoke-clears-tories-liberals-react-to-pot-ruling/article1984950/

“It’s unbelievable. It feels like we won the Stanley Cup and brought it home,” said Mr. Mernagh, 37, as he celebrated with supporters. “We’re all just sitting here, awestruck.”

On Wednesday, civil servants refused to tip their hands as to which path they would follow this time. Political parties vying for power, however, suggested they were open to rewriting the rules.

Tories are against it

We are disappointed with this decision,” wrote Tim Vail, a spokesman for Tory Health Minister Leona Aglukkaq, in an e-mail. “We are currently considering longer-term measures to reform the medical access program and its regulations.

Liberals for decriminalizing small amounts

The Liberals issued a similar response, reiterating their opposition to legalizing the drug, but leaving the door open to decriminalizing possession of small amounts and revisiting the regulations for medicinal users.

For people currently charged.

Anyone currently facing growing or possession charges can say ‘I am being charged under a law that’s been found to be unconstitutional,’” said Paul Lewin.

So while this case winds through the courts it appears that "the this law is unconstitutional line"

could prevaill.... ?? “ to have possession charges dropped.

Edited April 14, 2011 by William Ashley

[Michael Hardner]

Higher conviction rates and longer sentencing than other crimes? I'm not saying 50% is right. All I'm saying is your numbers don't indicate the prison population.

You are correct. I still want to see a source for the 50% of prison population claim. As I said, it seems like a pothead myth at this point.

[BubberMiley]

As I said, it seems like a pothead myth at this point.

Lol. Stupid potheads.

[Sir Bandelot]

Lol. Stupid potheads.

From what I've heard, many intelligent people also smoke marihuana. And they identify themselves as a 'culture' now. So in saying this you are being a bigot

[cybercoma]

Theres no emperical evidence that our drug laws have any effect on consumption at all. The only western country thats legalized drugs is Portugal, and drug related crimes went down, drug use went down, and the number of people seaking treatment went through the roof.

All these laws do is put billions of dollars into the hands of criminals, and deprive the government of a shitload of revenue.

And you forgot the most damning problem connected to these laws, by your very own assertion: the number of people seeking treatment went through the roof.

Drugs are illegal. People are more reluctant to seek treatment because they incriminate themselves by admitting that they are drug users.

It's time to help those on drugs by legalizing them.

[guyser]

No, I can't. And you can't either. That would be illegal smuggling of prohibited guns.What country/state/province?

Who's talking about smuggling? In the US, some States , no provinces

[William Ashley]

Who's talking about smuggling? In the US, some States , no provinces

87 days remaining.

From april 11th it has 30 days to appeal.. BUT will it appeal before election day.. if not I think we know why....

The Public Prosecution Service is studying the judge’s decision and has 30 days to appeal the ruling which it is expected to do.

OPP says they will continue to bust, but Toronto PS says they are waiting on word from the feds.

Here are some recent cases though in this area of Ontario

http://news.google.ca/news/url?sa=t&ct2=ca%2F0_0_s_0_0_t&ct3=MAA4AEgAUABgAWoCY2E&usg=AFQjCNH4wcvlTSRCGPXIrOIg53yGrzxj7A&did=f1c5f85fc815bfe7&cid=0&ei=_iCnTZjxK6CINYv08J4B&rt=SEARCH&vm=STANDARD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.therecord.com%2Fnews%2Flocal%2Farticle%2F516797--two-cambridge-residents-arrested-after-stun-gun-robbery

stun gun charge would stick but would the pot charge be valid?

actually it seems that there was no pot charge in here...

with robbery with a weapon, forcible confinement, possession of property obtained by crime and unauthorized possession of a weapon.

--- the seizure of the pot plants has me wonder if they are legal?

No pot charge, but they took the plants...

would that be a arrest breach due to unlawful seizure?

Edited April 14, 2011 by William Ashley

[eyeball]

You are correct. I still want to see a source for the 50% of prison population claim. As I said, it seems like a pothead myth at this point.

I think it's based on a mix of real sources and reasoning within a more global context of the war on drugs.

This study accounts for 33% in US prisons at least.

Bear in mind that this study counts 33% from direct drug crime and cites prohibition's criminogenic properties for boosting imprisonment rates even farther - farther than 50% I suspect.

I see little reason not to believe the economic and social costs of prohibition will soon balloon in Canada should we go anywhere near the route the US has taken.

Edited April 14, 2011 by eyeball

[Michael Hardner]

This study accounts for 33% in US prisons at least.

Sorry, I didn't see the 33% in that study. Care to excerpt it ?

I saw something that said half of drugs arrests were for marijuana, and that 6 % of those resulted in felony conviction. That takes us down from 3.5% of charges to 1.75% of charges for marijuana, and a small number of convictions. Makes the 50% number look like pure fantasy now, no surprise.

Moreover, only about 6 percent of marijuana

arrests result in a felony conviction

[bush_cheney2004]

...I saw something that said half of drugs arrests were for marijuana, and that 6 % of those resulted in felony conviction. That takes us down from 3.5% of charges to 1.75% of charges for marijuana, and a small number of convictions. Makes the 50% number look like pure fantasy now, no surprise.

Agreed...it was patently absurd at first blush, and is even more so now with desperate references to American statistics (yet again). There is a reason we call it "dope".

[Michael Hardner]

I thought 'dope' was slang for 'good' these days ? You're American - do you know the argot of the street ?

[eyeball]

Sorry, I didn't see the 33% in that study. Care to excerpt it ?

The fact that drug crimes account for one-third of our prison population is only part of the story, for, like alcohol prohibition, drug prohibition is criminogenic in myriad ways.

From pg. 5 of the downloaded study.

I saw something that said half of drugs arrests were for marijuana, and that 6 % of those resulted in felony conviction. That takes us down from 3.5% of charges to 1.75% of charges for marijuana, and a small number of convictions. Makes the 50% number look like pure fantasy now, no surprise.

I certainly don't subscribe to the idea that 50% of people in prison are there strictly for pot. That pot is often cited by drug warriors as being the worst drug of all however because it leads to other drugs and crime is just as ridiculous a claim but its probably not wrong to say that pot is the worst drug to be prohibiting given the criminality that prohibition leads to, which could very well account for 50% of our crime rate if not our prison populations.

The argument that prohibition is crimiogenic and more harmful than helpful is a very powerful one.

Edited April 14, 2011 by eyeball

[Michael Hardner]

That pot is often cited by drug warriors as being the worst drug of all however because it leads to other drugs and crime is just as ridiculous a claim but its probably not wrong to say that pot is the worst drug to be prohibiting given the criminality that prohibition leads to, which could very well account for 50% of our crime rate if not our prison populations.

That sentence is gobbledegook to me.

Couldn't find your excerpt on p5 either - can you cut/paste it ? I have gone through the entire paper looking for '33' at least 4 times and it's not there.

[GostHacked]

Legalize it all, and let the chips fall where they may.

[Saipan]

The argument that prohibition is crimiogenic and more harmful than helpful is a very powerful one.

But most Canadians don't want you to have things like RPG's and Claymore mines.

[eyeball]

That sentence is gobbledegook to me.

Some people claim pot is the most dangerous drug because of the idea it's the gateway to all the rest.

I simply tried to point out the prohibition of pot is dangerous - because the criminogenic nature of prohibition produces more crime, apparently quite a lot.

Couldn't find your excerpt on p5 either - can you cut/paste it ? I have gone through the entire paper looking for '33' at least 4 times and it's not there.

It says page 5 on the PDF window but I see now the quote is actually on page 4 of the document. My Bad.

The fact that drug crimes account for one-third of our prison population is only part of the story, for, like alcohol prohibition, drug prohibition is criminogenic in myriad ways.

One-third or 33% in so many words.

[Michael Hardner]

The fact that drug crimes account for one-third of our prison population is only part of the story, for, like alcohol

prohibition, drug prohibition is criminogenic in myriad ways.

'drug crimes'

[eyeball]

I made it clear I wasn't talking about just pot, I was simply trying to show how a 50% claim might have some basis in reality.

I think its reasonable to conclude a huge proportion of the 33% or 1/3 are for pot and that the addition of crime due to criminogenisis could boost that substantially.

Simply put, the prohibition of pot is a bad policy that causes crime and unnecessarily stuffs prisons full of people.

[icman]

The argument that prohibition is crimiogenic and more harmful than helpful is a very powerful one.

But most Canadians don't want you to have things like RPG's and Claymore mines.

Saipan, please tell me you're joking. You are not seriously equating marijuana with RPG's and Claymore mines, are you? Why don't you just take your argument to its logical conclusion? "If we allow people to smoke pot, we might as well give them access to nuclear launch codes, or stockpiles of sarin gas, or weaponized ebola."

I am embarassed that I have to point out that pot only harms the user, and even that is highly debatable, whereas use of heavy artillery harms the target, lots of bystanders, and nearby structures and vehicles.

I have a question for all the "I want free access to firearms" crowd. Why should drugs be illegal? Please be detailed and rigorous. Seriously present the case for criminalization of recreational drug use. And when you are done, compare your arguments against those used to justify the criminalization of firearms possession. I think you will find that people who advocate gun possession who also think pot users should go to jail are hypocrites.

[Sailor]

rednecks will be rednecks. Still thinking their opinion on a plant is going to stop a bunch of regular people from lighting up.

Prohibition worked well in the US didn't it?

(I guess it did if you consider for-profit prisons)

[William Ashley]

The Harper Government appealed the ruling so that they can keep pot criminalized even for medical marijuana users who can't get their dope because doctors won't deal.

http://www.cp24.com/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20110420/110420_marijuana/20110420/?hub=CP24Home

[WWWTT]

Ok here is my take on this issue.

Drugs are bad for me and I will not do them.

My interpretation of drugs is very wide and and include cofee(cafine),junk food(McDonalds,Cola,KFC,etc),alcohol,cocaine,heroin,marijuana,elicit mushrooms and you get the idea.

And as far as I am concerned if someone was to ask me what is the worst drug out there I would close my eyes and randomly pick any one from the list above.

Drugs are strictly a health issue and should not be dealt with soley in the criminal justice system.

This issue will always be percieved as a problem as long as it is improperly addressed.

This is a very serious issue because of the resources that it attracts from our system and should be addressed.

This also reflects another failing in the Harper administration

WWWTT

[Sailor]

I bet if we took just a portion the public funds used to dealing with marijuana "offences" and applied it to the deficit instead, we'd be deficit-free in no time flat.

Why are we even concerned with this? The prohibition is what causes the problems.

[eyeball]

I bet if we took just a portion the public funds used to dealing with marijuana "offences" and applied it to the deficit instead, we'd be deficit-free in no time flat.

Why are we even concerned with this? The prohibition is what causes the problems.

The problems feed an enormous industrial-complex of police, prosecutors, defenders, judges, prisons, guards, counsellors...