Legal Possession of marijuana

[William Ashley]

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Ontario+judge+Marijuana+criminalization+unconstitutional/4604951/story.html

I'm for a variety of protections and systems but that among knowing adults it should be able to be privately used.. I think there are a lot of people who will be very pleased with these developments.

The court declared the rules that govern medical marijuana access and the prohibitions laid out in Sections 4 and 7 of the act "constitutionally invalid and of no force and effect" on Monday, effectively paving the way for legalization.

Ontario has 90 days to create new legislation or it will be legal to possess and produce pot.

now 88 days.

A lot of people from all walks of life smoke pot.

I think that more people will like it legal than not.

In BC for instance 64% support legalization.

Get this

"Fifty percent of the people in jails are in on marijuana charges" can you beleive that... think of the cost savings on that.

1.5 million Canadians have criminal records for simple possession. - - that is 1 in 20 Canadians have been caught and charged.... this says nothing about how many havn't.

How much do 1.5 million court cases cost?

What about all the people who can't travel because of that charge?

50,000 Canadians are arrested each year ... for pot..... how much do 50000 arrests and court cases cost? What about 50,000 * the 80000 /~6 for the cost of putting them in jail for the 60+ days?

That is close to 2/3rds of a billion dollars.

Each day is estimated at $150.. for each one of them.

Then we have pot culture mags clearly showing their stripes

http://cannabisculture.com/v2/content/2011/04/05/Save-Canadas-Cannabis-Culture-Vote-Out-Conservatives-May-2

Basically anyone who smokes pot should vote against the conservatives, they are afterall building more jails for unreported crimes.

Edited April 13, 2011 by William Ashley

[ba1614]

Get this

"Fifty percent of the people in jails are in on marijuana charges" can you beleive that... think of the cost savings on that.

1.5 million Canadians have criminal records for simple possession. - - that is 1 in 20 Canadians have been caught and charged.... this says nothing about how many havn't.

How much do 1.5 million court cases cost?

What about all the people who can't travel because of that charge?

50,000 Canadians are arrested each year ... for pot..... how muc do 50000 arrests and court cases cost? What about 50,000 * the 80000 /~6 for the cost of putting them in jail for the 60+ days?

That is close to 2/3rds of a billion dollars.

I fully support the legalization of the herb, but do you have a link to support these stats?

[William Ashley]

I fully support the legalization of the herb, but do you have a link to support these stats?

pick one, do your own research.

This isn't meant to be rude, just I don't feel like pulling citations for a forum post, if it was a website sure... forum no.

Its major pollsters like Angus Reid and government agencies.

Edited April 13, 2011 by William Ashley

[TheRightWing]

Cant we all just... Get abong? :-D

[ba1614]

pick one, do your own research.

This isn't meant to be rude, just I don't feel like pulling citations for a forum post, if it was a website sure... forum no.

Its major pollsters like Angus Reid and government agencies.

That's what I thought.

EDIT: Specifically the 50% of people in jail are there for marijuana.

Edited April 13, 2011 by ba1614

[eyeball]

Anti-drug action groups and others against the legalization of marijuana have said legalizing marijuana could lead to widespread use and increase crime rates.

The way legal booze did?

I do have to say it seems a little lame to piggy-back the legal right to toke up for the purpose of un-winding at the end of a hard-day's work but...I imagine there must be a doctor somewhere by now who's advised someone to kick back and pour a drink so se la vie I guess.

[eyeball]

Good timing for an interesting wrinkle in the election. It would be refreshing to see this become a hot button issue.

[William Ashley]

Good timing for an interesting wrinkle in the election. It would be refreshing to see this become a hot button issue.

http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=e3f8a100-2f8e-4b73-b131-3411c2619f58

A mandatory six-month sentence for growing as little as one marijuana plant

Edited April 13, 2011 by William Ashley

[eyeball]

http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=e3f8a100-2f8e-4b73-b131-3411c2619f58

Yeah but what are they going to do about it now?

Promise to crack down and poop on the party so to speak in the middle of an election that might depend on what a rather sizeable disaffected contingent of youth do with their vote?

[William Ashley]

Yeah but what are they going to do about it now?

Promise to crack down and poop on the party so to speak in the middle of an election that might depend on what a rather sizeable disaffected contingent of youth do with their vote?

The conservatives are still hovering around a majority just so you know.

All these --- this is what we would do laws--- become very likely law if a majority is attained. Look at the 80% of laws that didn't get through the gates to see what is instore.

There is no senate to stop them.

One of these is 'spying on the internet' intercepting communications etc...

http://www.boingboing.net/2011/04/10/canadian-tories-camp.html

This isn't meant as anything but a statement as it goes both ways

but Abortion would likely become illegal.

Along side this more copyright laws.......

you got to ask other than be more restrictive... what is instore with conservative majority?

What about human rights???

Section 13 of the Canadian Human Rights Act (CHRA) empowers the Commission to deal with complaints regarding the communication of hate messages by telephone or on the Internet

Hate messages are not allowed if it is in regard to

"race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, age, sex, marital status, family status, disability and conviction for which a pardon has been granted".

I don't know why the CPC would want to legislate hate towards

"race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, age, sex, marital status, family status, disability and conviction for which a pardon has been granted".

Does this say something about the values of the CPC?

Rascists, Sexist, insulting the disabled, and people who have been pardoned of a given crime. (while pardons last of course because the CPC wants to scrap them too.

"Serious Crimes"

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:LBd5LSWl75QJ:www.conservative.ca/press/other_stories/conservatives_take_action_to_eliminate_pardons_for_serious_crimes+conservative+party+of+canada+pardons&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca&source=www.google.ca

why are the otherones crimes if they arn't serious?

Why have a 'non serious crime' land you 6 months in jail?

I think these guys need to be put away for 6 months to get a taste of what growing one pot plant can do to you.

Granted almost automatically 7+ years later.

This also has someone who commits three or more offences in the occurence of one act.. ineligible for pardon.

Edited April 13, 2011 by William Ashley

[eyeball]

There is no senate to stop them.

There is the Supreme Court.

[bush_cheney2004]

....1.5 million Canadians have criminal records for simple possession. - - that is 1 in 20 Canadians have been caught and charged.... this says nothing about how many havn't.

How much do 1.5 million court cases cost?

I guess they would rather spend more time smoking dope than voting.

What about all the people who can't travel because of that charge?

What about 'em? I'm sure they can still travel to Melville Island and nobody there will bother them about dope.

[blueblood]

The conservatives are still hovering around a majority just so you know.

All these --- this is what we would do laws--- become very likely law if a majority is attained. Look at the 80% of laws that didn't get through the gates to see what is instore.

There is no senate to stop them.

One of these is 'spying on the internet' intercepting communications etc...

http://www.boingboing.net/2011/04/10/canadian-tories-camp.html

This isn't meant as anything but a statement as it goes both ways

but Abortion would likely become illegal.

Along side this more copyright laws.......

you got to ask other than be more restrictive... what is instore wiht conservative majority?

Oh tinfoil oh tinfoil how I love thee...

[William Ashley]

There is the Supreme Court.

Those spots are nominated by the PM too.

currently only two judges are appointed by harper.. and one by mulrooney, the cheif.

DUE FOR RETIREMENT.

Morris Fish 01938-11-16 16 November 1938 --- chretien

MANDATORY RETIREMENT DATE

16 November 2013

Louis LeBel 01939-11-30 30 November 1939 --- chretien

MANDATORY RETIREMENT DATE

30 November 2014

Ian Binnie 01939-04-14 14 April 1939 --- chretien

MANDATORY RETIREMENT DATE

14 April 2014

retirement mandatory at 75.

age 72-73?

Majorities last 5 years. with no election this means atleast two years of majority control of parliament and the supreme court. Also the senate majority will increase also.. meaning.. that the senate will be tory controlled for the forseable future..

oh until it becomes elected..... I'm guessing sometime around 2014 if the tories are given a majority.

lets get real though why give away a senate you control? -- well unless you can pick up more seats anyway..

but what else is instore for A CONSTITUTIONAL CHANGE....ammending the BNA that founded Canada.

It is totally wrong to suggest the queens retirement may have more instore for those republican sorts.

born 21 April 1926 -- the queen mum was such until what 103 or something?

At this rate she has a good 11 or so years left in her atleast.

Does this make you agast too..

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/12/royal-wedding-queen-funeral-_n_848338.html

Edited April 13, 2011 by William Ashley

[Saipan]

A lot of people from all walks of life smoke pot.

I think that more people will like it legal than not.

Same goes for making alcohol, for example.

"Fifty percent of the people in jails are in on marijuana charges" can you beleive that...

BALONEY. No one is. Only dealers.

1.5 million Canadians have criminal records for simple possession.

Same for DUI.

What about all the people who can't travel because of that charge?

I was charged for speeding but always travel.

Each day is estimated at $150.. for each one of them.

Some will be MUCH higher. I intend to file under Freedom of Information Act to find out how expensive was my fight to get my grandfather class firearms licence. So far two court hearing, firearm "expert" twice, from city 400 km away, RCMP lawyer all the way from Ottawa once. And no clear decisions yet. Taxpayers will be on a hook for many thousands of dollars, when finished.

[William Ashley]

Same goes for making alcohol, for example.

BALONEY. No one is. Only dealers.

patently false. I've known of someone who has gotten 1 or 2 months simply for having something in possession -- court cases can take longer than someone held awaiting trial would get if they were convicted. Some people even go to jail in the days of 2 for 1, to do their time and get out earlier on a guilty plea, bascially spending the time in jail upfront while just waiting for the court to process things. Other times the court holds you... for example the prosecution can ask for a bond - even if you are pennyless or in debt. It is nonsensical. For something as simple as tresspassing. Someone can be held for months waiting for a trial for something as basic as tresspassing because dickhead prosecutors want people to put up money they don't have for something as simple as tresspassing on public property during operating hours. In this instance myself was held for over a month and taken out of the court in charges that were eventually stayed -- because a police officer ejected me physically from a court house without an explanation, when I returned and asked why I was thrown off the public provincially owned property I was arrested - in charges that were latter stayed while I was being held extrajudicially for a few weeks more and tortured. (of course I was also brought back to the exact same courthouse before being removed from the trial and tortured.)

Saipan why do you need grandfathered permits? Why don't you just store your machine guns in a country that permits machine guns to be owned by civilians like somolia.

Edited April 13, 2011 by William Ashley

[Michael Hardner]

That's what I thought.

EDIT: Specifically the 50% of people in jail are there for marijuana.

That was proven dead wrong recently on this board. Just a pothead myth, it seems.

[Tilter]

Same goes for making alcohol, for example.

BALONEY. No one is. Only dealers.

Same for DUI.

I was charged for speeding but always travel.

Some will be MUCH higher. I intend to file under Freedom of Information Act to find out how expensive was my fight to get my grandfather class firearms licence. So far two court hearing, firearm "expert" twice, from city 400 km away, RCMP lawyer all the way from Ottawa once. And no clear decisions yet. Taxpayers will be on a hook for many thousands of dollars, when finished.

The CPC doesn't have to worry about the youth vote because of pot laws--- The young make up a great proportion of the 40+% that don't bother to vote. A lot of them act out their rage by smashing store fronts during tha G meetings--- remember, there were virtually 0 30+ aged people shown in the vandal tour at the various G meetings especially the G20 last year. They bitch about the "bad, anti-youth laws but won't be bothered to take an hour to vote against the party that makes the laws they hate. My pity for their plight is about 0o Kelvin

[ba1614]

That was proven dead wrong recently on this board. Just a pothead myth, it seems.

Thank you, I was sure it was bogus. First political forum I've been on where you didn't need to back up your claims.

[William Ashley]

Thank you, I was sure it was bogus. First political forum I've been on where you didn't need to back up your claims.

Back up yours. Where are the figures to deny my own..

The Canadian Press reported yesterday that arrests for marijuana posession in several Canadian cities increased between 20% and 50% last year

Dated: July 10, 2007

1st year of Conseravtive government.

Police officials stated: "the jump in arrests is linked to the Conservative government's decision to drop a Liberal bill that would have decriminalized the posession of small amounts of marijuana."

Now wait for the majority.

Forty per cent of Canadian cannabis is produced in British Columbia, 25% in Ontario and 25% in Quebec,....

why would the conservatives want to arrest people from those provinces.... hmm?

Check out a site like

http://www.cannabisfacts.ca/

and say what isn't true in it...

for instance figures range between 30000 and 60000 arrests per year... since the conservatives started pulling the shots... arrets have gone up 1/4 to 1/2. that is 10000 to 30000 more arrests for pot related offences.

If 5% when to jail before with mandatory 6 month sentences more people are forced to go to jail... along side this that 5% figure turns into a 6 or 7% figure easy. If not more.

The number of people simply arrested for pot is the same figure of total number of people in jail in Canada or higher.

With more spots in jail... being opened up... who are they going to fill it with... with more mandatory drug sentences???

In BC, Ontario and Quebec... come on... you know how that looks... who will that be?

Then you gotta ask why the courts struck down possesion law in Ontario.

Edited April 13, 2011 by William Ashley

[guyser]

. A lot of them act out their rage by smashing store fronts during tha G meetings---

What percentage though? 20%....40%...more ?

remember, there were virtually 0 30+ aged people shown in the vandal tour at the various G meetings especially the G20 last year.

You knew the ages under the disguises?

The guy who torched the car was 41....if he gets convicted that is

[William Ashley]

The guy who torched the car was 41....if he gets convicted that is

Yes it should be interestesting if his defence of Cocaine hangover will be enough.

Not sure if Cocaine after effects would constitute NCR by reason of temporary insanity.

In the us for instance there is

Settled insanity is defined as a permanent or "settled" condition caused by long-term substance abuse and differs from the temporary state of intoxication. In some United States jurisdictions "settled insanity" can be used as a basis for an insanity defense, even though voluntary intoxication cannot, if the "settled insanity" negates one of the required elements of the crime such as malice aforethought. However, U.S. federal and state courts have differed in their interpretations of when the use of "settled insanity" is acceptable as an insanity defense and also over what is included in the concept of "settled insanity".

Early English common law recognized "settled insanity" as a complete defense for a person who is a habitual drunk but is not intoxicated at the time of the offense.

A complete defense exonerates the accused and is a verdict of not guilty

M'Naghten's Case 1843 10 C & F 200

:Treatment: he hasn't started any cop cars on fire since. but he most likely is a person of interest due to his ties to cocaine. Of course substantiation of fact might be difficult since it would nail someone for traffiking cocaine (a life sentence) , if trying to substantiate the fact of attaining possession and use.

In R v Arnold 1724 16 How St. Tr. 765, the test for insanity was expressed in the following terms

whether the accused is totally deprived of his understanding and memory and knew what he was doing "no more than a wild beast or a brute, or an infant".

does cocaine withdrawal have that effect?

and in this instance what does it say about the ability to charge people who have used cocain prior to commiting an offence... would the question be if there was premeditation to commit an offence before coming under the influence... or does culpability exist in subjecting oneself to loss of rationale- and thus responsiblity for all acts that are commited while lacking rational as an effect of a choice made while having capacity.

the jurors ought to be told in all cases that every man is presumed to be sane, and to possess a sufficient degree of reason to be responsible for his crimes, until the contrary be proved to their satisfaction

There is also a position of "influence and coercion in what is known as mass compulsion -- when a large group of people are engaged in an act, the individual mind state can become subjected due to "herd mentality". So that an individual in an altered context temporarily undergoes a paradigm shift due to mass influence.

http://www.brocku.ca/MeadProject/Bogardus/1924/1924_22.html

Feelings tend to submerge reason. Crowds act quickly on inherited

( 255) feeling bases, but reason slowly if at all. Crowds are passional. It is easy, therefore, to understand the phrase, the crowd is reversionary. The tendency of a crowd to revert to primitive methods is natural.

Can a natural act be deemed criminal in those circumstances?

The members of a crowd experience a heightened state of suggestibility.

ordinary person in a crowd suffers a weakening of his sense of responsibility. The anonymity makes the individual feel that he can do anything and "get away with it."

Perhaps this might be a form of entrapment.

The first type of entrapment, "random virtue testing", occurs when the police offer an individual the opportunity to commit a crime without reasonable suspicion that either that individual, or the place where that individual is located, is associated with the criminal activity under investigation. If police do have such a reasonable suspicion, they are still limited to providing only an opportunity to commit the offence.

The second form of entrapment occurs when the police go beyond merely providing an opportunity to commit an offence, and instead actually induce the commission of the offence. Some factors a court may consider when deciding whether police have induced the offence include the type of crime being investigated, whether an average person would have been induced, the persistence and number of attempts made by the police, the type of inducement used (e.g. fraud, deceit, reward), and the existence of express or implied threats.

You know leaving a crowd there and parking a cruiser next to them, then letting it burn.

Someone under mass influence and suggestability in an altered state suffering cocaine withdrawl -- might not appreciate or understand that what he was doing was wrong until --- after the fact.

You know caught in the act, but enticed by oppourtunity - but not of his "regular" state, and police derelict of stoping a police cruiser from being attacked.

1 Billion dollars was spent on security and they couldn't protect one of their own vehciles... or they allowed it to happen, which would be aiding the act, and allowing the continuance of the act rather than dispersing the crowd or instructing them to desist in the activity - it is almost compliance and invitation to commit the offence, thus a form of entrapment.

The first type of entrapment, "random virtue testing", occurs when the police offer an individual the opportunity to commit a crime without reasonable suspicion that either that individual, or the place where that individual is located, is associated with the criminal activity under investigation. If police do have such a reasonable suspicion, they are still limited to providing only an opportunity to commit the offence.

The supreme court emphatically explained that the police should not engage in “random virtue testing” of the population. By this the court meant that the police should not test the virtue of individual citizens by offering them the opportunity to commit a crime at random.

The police were derelict. They also parked their cruiser in a riot and left.. .what do you expect?

Edited April 13, 2011 by William Ashley

[Saipan]

I've known of someone who has gotten 1 or 2 months simply for having something in possession

Housewife tales. Depends on WHAT "something".

Saipan why do you need grandfathered permits?

To be able to jump through the correct liberal legal hoops and keep legally bought and registered handguns of standard barrel 4" instead 4.15". I have only two classes of licences and need third in order not to get legally ripped off.

Whenever you're told it's just a simple registration "like cars" you know the liberal is either deliberately bullshitting you or he's a complete moron.

Why don't you just store your machine guns

They are not legal here, i.e. you can't buy them even in the USA - legally that is. Not that anyone but Mafia, Jamaican Posses etc, are looking for them. So your rhetoric fell flat on it's nose again.

Edited April 13, 2011 by Saipan

[William Ashley]

Housewife tales. Depends on WHAT "something".

pot.

To be able to jump through the correct liberal legal hoops and keep legally bought and registered handguns of standard barrel 4" instead 4.15". I have only two classes of licences and need third in order not to get legally ripped off. Whenever you're told it's just a simple registration "like cars" you know the liberal is either deliberately bullshitting you or he's a complete moron.

How many guns you need to hunt with? Someone break into your pad they could start an army or sumtin.

They are not legal here, i.e. you can't buy them even in the USA - legally that is. Not that anyone but Mafia, Jamaican Posses etc, are looking for them. So your rhetoric fell flat on it's nose again.

Ah what is the gun you are trying to keep?

Edited April 13, 2011 by William Ashley

[KBLT]

Its pretty absurd that people go to jail over petty marijuana charges. There are plenty of other substances, and food, that are worse for your health and pose a serious threat to maintaining our envied health care system.

These recent developments restore a small amount of faith in our crippled justice system but we still have a long way to go.