DogOnPorch Posted April 4, 2011 Report Posted April 4, 2011 Christianity is 600 years older than Islam. 600 years ago, the Church was burning heretics by the dozen. It doesn't take 600 years to do anything...not even a pyramid. It's a poor excuse for Islam's current "radical" behaviour. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Wilber Posted April 4, 2011 Report Posted April 4, 2011 The Middle East is a lot older than North America. By your logic, we should be catching up to them. Except for our native population, the roots of our culture are European, not North American. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
Jack Weber Posted April 4, 2011 Report Posted April 4, 2011 Christianity is 600 years older than Islam. 600 years ago, the Church was burning heretics by the dozen. Erm.. There was a little thing that ahppened...Oh,about 500 years ago called... THE PROTESTANT REFORMATION..... While intially quite violent and bloody,(see the virtual civil war started in France by Jean Cauvin(John Calvin)) over time,it had a calming effect on the sectarian violence that plagued Christendom for a very long time.. In fact,the only place we ever see a serious flare up of Catholic/Protestant violence is in Northern Ireland,and that has alot more to do with Noerthern Ireland being a British province than religious sectarianism... The point being that Islam has yet to go through that "reformation" amongst its own sects... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
DogOnPorch Posted April 4, 2011 Report Posted April 4, 2011 Jack: The point being that Islam has yet to go through that "reformation" amongst its own sects... Nor is it likely to as long as the Koran is taken literally as the Word of God. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Jack Weber Posted April 4, 2011 Report Posted April 4, 2011 Good catch. Tyndale was a heritic for his Bible and 'reforms'...to some he might as well have put it to the torch. The real problem was that The Vatican,in it's usual arrogance,decided it would the arbitor of who could translate,and therefore know,The Bible... It did'nt help Tyndale that was an ardent follower of Martin Luther... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
DogOnPorch Posted April 4, 2011 Report Posted April 4, 2011 The real problem was that The Vatican,in it's usual arrogance,decided it would the arbitor of who could translate,and therefore know,The Bible... It did'nt help Tyndale that was an ardent follower of Martin Luther... Well they did hold the patent. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
bush_cheney2004 Posted April 4, 2011 Report Posted April 4, 2011 Nope, just that they be held responsible for their actions. By who? Which jurisdiction? What are the elements of the offense? What is the penalty? Or is all of this just up to you and your opinion? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Jack Weber Posted April 4, 2011 Report Posted April 4, 2011 Nor is it likely to as long as the Koran is taken literally as the Word of God. Well,the Holy Bible is also taken as the Word of God... The difference is that Christianity,for the most part,decided to put the semantic differences between the Vatican and the adherents of the 5 Sola's aside... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Wilber Posted April 4, 2011 Report Posted April 4, 2011 It doesn't take 600 years to do anything...not even a pyramid. It's a poor excuse for Islam's current "radical" behaviour. Of course it does. Every generation builds on the backs of previous generations but who's talking about excuses. It is however the youngest major religion on the planet by a good margin. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
Jack Weber Posted April 4, 2011 Report Posted April 4, 2011 Well they did hold the patent. So says The Vatican... Being Protestant,I'm not beholden to the edicts of their CEO(let's call him a Pope) and their Board of Directors (let's call them The Magisterium)... Sola Scriptura reigns supreme!!! Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Wilber Posted April 4, 2011 Report Posted April 4, 2011 By who? Which jurisdiction? What are the elements of the offense? What is the penalty? Or is all of this just up to you and your opinion? That would be up to a court to decide but I guess it's certainly not as serious as serving coffee that is too hot. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
bush_cheney2004 Posted April 4, 2011 Report Posted April 4, 2011 That would be up to a court to decide but I guess it's certainly not as serious as serving coffee that is too hot. A civil lawsuit would be dismissed if brought in the United States. There is no criminal offense or indictment possible. No laws were broken. He can burn Qu'rans in Florida every day for the rest of his life if he wants to. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
DogOnPorch Posted April 4, 2011 Report Posted April 4, 2011 Well,the Holy Bible is also taken as the Word of God... The difference is that Christianity,for the most part,decided to put the semantic differences between the Vatican and the adherents of the 5 Sola's aside... Fair enough...but the true Koran is read in Arabic. Not Norwegian. Wilber: Of course it does. Every generation builds on the backs of previous generations but who's talking about excuses. It is however the youngest major religion on the planet by a good margin. Islam did not and does not exist in a vacuum. It has been interacting with the West and Judeo-Christian tradition (usually via war) since its creation. It has had numerous chances to pick-up some of the West's "good habits". Also, regardless, the planet and civilization as we know it doesn't have 500-600 years to let Islam 'catch-up'...assuming it wants to. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Shady Posted April 4, 2011 Report Posted April 4, 2011 (edited) Well,the Holy Bible is also taken as the Word of God... Not in the same way as the Koran. It's mans interpretation of the word of God. The Koran however is believed by Muslims to be the actual word of God. Guest Tries To Explain Why Burning The Koran is Worse Than Burning The BibleVideo GHOSH: The thing to keep in mind that`s very important here is that the Koran to Muslims, it is not — it is not the same as the Bible to Christians.The Bible is a book written by men. It is acknowledged by Christians that it is written by men. It`s the story of Jesus. TODD: Yes. GHOSH: But the Koran, if you are a believer, if you`re a Muslim, the Koran is directly the word of God, not written by man. It is transcribed, is directly the word of God. Edited April 4, 2011 by Shady Quote
Jack Weber Posted April 4, 2011 Report Posted April 4, 2011 Fair enough...but the true Koran is read in Arabic. Not Norwegian Yes... But at the time of Tyndale,and the crux of his execution,it was only available in Latin.And was only translatable in other languages by spoken word and only by Catholic clergymen... Which goes to the heart of the raison d'etre for the Reformation and Martin Luther's Protestations... The most serious of those,other than the shady,"pay your way out of sin",money taking scheme of The Vatican,was that the Word of God was self evident and no translation through an intermediary was necessary... The problem with Islam,as I see it,is that the authoritarian side has taken control of it and intends to keep things that way...Much like the position the Catholic Church did over 500 years ago...Remember,the Islamofascist probably kill more Muslims to keep them in line,than they kill any of us "Infidel"... Frankly,it's not going to be up to us to make the necessary internal change that needs to happen within Islam.That's got to be up to the moderates who will finally say they've had enough of their faith being hijacked by the crazies and take matters into their own hands... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Wilber Posted April 4, 2011 Report Posted April 4, 2011 A civil lawsuit would be dismissed if brought in the United States. There is no criminal offense or indictment possible. No laws were broken. He can burn Qu'rans in Florida every day for the rest of his life if he wants to. I didn't know a law had to be broken to bring a civil suit. When did serving too hot coffee become a crime? Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
Jack Weber Posted April 4, 2011 Report Posted April 4, 2011 (edited) Not in the same way as the Koran. It's mans interpretation of the word of God. The Koran however is believed by Muslims to be the actual word of God. No it is not... The Vatican maintains that The Holy Bible is the infallable written Word of God AND that it is the only true Church of Christ that can interpret that Word... The Protestant position on this is that through the 5 Sola's,particularily Sola Scriptura,that the infallable Word of God is self evident and there is no need for an intermediary... Hence the 500+ year power struggle... But both say that the Holy Bible is still the Word of God through Jesus Christ... Edited April 4, 2011 by Jack Weber Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Wilber Posted April 4, 2011 Report Posted April 4, 2011 Islam did not and does not exist in a vacuum. It has been interacting with the West and Judeo-Christian tradition (usually via war) since its creation. It has had numerous chances to pick-up some of the West's "good habits". Also, regardless, the planet and civilization as we know it doesn't have 500-600 years to let Islam 'catch-up'...assuming it wants to. True and it shouldn't take 600 years in todays world but it exists largely in regions that do not have the same education and economic standards as the west and with a higher ratio of totalitarian governments. As a result, people are more easily manipulated just as they were by the Church in years past. Better to look for the reasons Islam is the way it is than just laying blame. It's not going away. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
bush_cheney2004 Posted April 4, 2011 Report Posted April 4, 2011 I didn't know a law had to be broken to bring a civil suit. When did serving too hot coffee become a crime? It doesn't, but it sure helps in the civil suit! Either way....you got nothing here. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Wilber Posted April 4, 2011 Report Posted April 4, 2011 It doesn't, but it sure helps in the civil suit! Either way....you got nothing here. Maybe not but it would be interesting to see it tested. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
DogOnPorch Posted April 4, 2011 Report Posted April 4, 2011 Yes... But at the time of Tyndale,and the crux of his execution,it was only available in Latin.And was only translatable in other languages by spoken word and only by Catholic clergymen...etc I agree with most of that except that few if any Christians go around saying that if you're not reading the Bible in Latin, your not getting the true Word of God. Islam is best served in Arabic if I understand correctly. Re: authoritarian Islam. I'm not so sure that's not just plain ol' Islam...no prefixes. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Jack Weber Posted April 4, 2011 Report Posted April 4, 2011 (edited) I agree with most of that except that few if any Christians go around saying that if you're not reading the Bible in Latin, your not getting the true Word of God. Islam is best served in Arabic if I understand correctly. Re: authoritarian Islam. I'm not so sure that's not just plain ol' Islam...no prefixes. Well,first of all.... Let's face it,although Islam is worlwide,it's epicentre is still in the Arabic world.So I'm not shocked that most versions are printed in Arabic...Having said that,it kind of makes my point... Because 500 years ago the Bible was ONLY printed in Latin...And only those who understood Latin were allowed to translate it.. If Islam ever went through a lengthy reformation like Christianity did it would have to open up...You might see Korans printed in English,French,Spanish etc... The rest...I have a hard time believing that over a billion people are simply completely crazy...I think there is a hardcore group of zealots who are so violent and intimidating towards their own that they keep them silent.Netanyahu spoke about this a few weeks ago in an interview on CNN speaking directly about Gaza... Edited April 4, 2011 by Jack Weber Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
DogOnPorch Posted April 4, 2011 Report Posted April 4, 2011 True and it shouldn't take 600 years in todays world but it exists largely in regions that do not have the same education and economic standards as the west and with a higher ratio of totalitarian governments. As a result, people are more easily manipulated just as they were by the Church in years past. Better to look for the reasons Islam is the way it is than just laying blame. It's not going away. True enough. But Western culture had best be VERY wary of a religion/political system that was created as form of cultural usurption counter to the West's own particular cultures/values. Not to mention traditionally spread via the pointy end of a sword. Islam is only (barely) pluralistic in a minority situation...otherwise there are penalties or worse for being different. Ask a Copt. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Jack Weber Posted April 4, 2011 Report Posted April 4, 2011 True enough. But Western culture had best be VERY wary of a religion/political system that was created as form of cultural usurption counter to the West's own particular cultures/values. Not to mention traditionally spread via the pointy end of a sword. Islam is only (barely) pluralistic in a minority situation...otherwise there are penalties or worse for being different. Ask a Copt. Yeah... But there are penalties for being different within Islam... See the sectarian violence in Baghdad between Sunni and Sh'Ite sects... Look at the sectarian issues around what's going on in Bahrain... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
DogOnPorch Posted April 4, 2011 Report Posted April 4, 2011 You can get the Koran in English...I have the Picktall edition. But it is usually said something is lost in the translation since Allah apparently spoke to Big M-- in the Arabic of the day. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.