ToadBrother Posted April 4, 2011 Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 Do you really think that had this Reverend Riffraff not burned the Koran that these people (or other people) wouldn't have been killed? These Islamists will always find something to blame to justify their acts of mass murder. These terrorists have been murdering people long before Reverend Riffraff came onto the scene. If it wasn't Reverend Reiffraff, it'd be something and/or someone else. From what I can gleam most of the people were just protesting (though why anyone would protest in a front of a UN facility about what some private citizen in the US did is beyond me), but it sounds like the protest was infiltrated by individuals intent on using it as a cover to do some butchery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted April 4, 2011 Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 Actually, he was trying to inform people in a way. He's illustrating the complete bat-shit craziness of modern Islam. That still kills people over the burning of paper. Paper on the other side of the world, that doesn't belong to them. And luckily, nobody has the right not to be offended. If that were the case, good things like Christopher Hitchens, Bill Maher, South Park, Playboy and The Daily Show would have been criminalized years ago. Bullshit, his motives are completely self serving. So he informs people by intentionally committing an act that he knows will get others killed. What a freekin hero. . So what? Many things get you killed elsewhere. Just reading a bible in many Muslim countries will get you killed. That's why our societies are better. That's why curtailing people's rights and freedoms because of other people elsewhere is the wrong thing to do. You should be ashamed of yourself I'm not saying we should curtail peoples rights. I am saying that some people who exercise their rights are total assholes who have no regard for the consequences to others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted April 4, 2011 Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 He is a crazy religious nutter, the only difference is he couldn't get away with inciting people to murder in the US. ...not by burning books...nope. That's protected speech. People died for his right to do exactly what he did. I'm not shifting responsibility, I'm saying he shares responsibility. Bottom line, he did it to get a reaction and if he hadn't burned that Koran, those people would still be alive. I hope goes to his grave understanding that but somehow I don't think he has that much conscience. He bears no responsibilty for the criminal actions of others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted April 4, 2011 Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 Then what happens in the rest of the world is no concern of the United States. Afraid your track record doesn't back that up. Not to say you haven't done a lot of good at times but that statement is pretty hypocritical. Obviously I'm speaking of our laws regarding our freedoms and how other people feel about it outside of our nation. Let's repost my full quote because I was specific in what I was referring to, which is why I qualified my statement: I'm saying that what happens in the United States is of no concern to the rest of the world. The pastor burned a copy of a book that he owned, perfectly legal within the U.S.; whether it's acceptable to people outside the U.S. is a non-issue. If others don't like it, if others react over it, do you think we need to change our laws to accomodate them? Do you think we should make our laws around the rest of the world's sensibilities? What about our feelings? Should Canada ban flag burning because it upsets some Americans? And if some Americans rioted over it, sought out other Canadians to take revenge on, and ended up killing people, would the flag burners be responsible? I'm asking again because you completely ignored it the first time around. Nothing there about governments, so I'm not even going to go there. But I noticed you still haven't answered the questions I raised, and considering where you're coming from, I can understand why you keep ignoring them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted April 4, 2011 Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 ...not by burning books...nope. That's protected speech. People died for his right to do exactly what he did. Yes, the right to be a crazy religious nutter. He bears no responsibilty for the criminal actions of others. Like you bear no responsibility for your car being broken into if you leave your wallet and laptop sitting on the front seat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted April 4, 2011 Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 Like you bear no responsibility for your car being broken into if you leave your wallet and laptop sitting on the front seat. It sounds to me as if you're suggesting that a woman bears some responsibility for getting raped if she wears sexy clothes and walks down a dark street at night.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted April 4, 2011 Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 Obviously I'm speaking of our laws regarding our freedoms and how other people feel about it outside of our nation. Let's repost my full quote because I was specific in what I was referring to, which is why I qualified my statement: I'm saying that what happens in the United States is of no concern to the rest of the world. The pastor burned a copy of a book that he owned, perfectly legal within the U.S.; whether it's acceptable to people outside the U.S. is a non-issue. If others don't like it, if others react over it, do you think we need to change our laws to accomodate them? Do you think we should make our laws around the rest of the world's sensibilities? What about our feelings? Should Canada ban flag burning because it upsets some Americans? And if some Americans rioted over it, sought out other Canadians to take revenge on, and ended up killing people, would the flag burners be responsible? I'm asking again because you completely ignored it the first time around. Nothing there about governments, so I'm not even going to go there. But I noticed you still haven't answered the questions I raised, and considering where you're coming from, I can understand why you keep ignoring them. I'm not saying you should ban anything, just that there are consequences to excercising your freedoms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted April 4, 2011 Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 It sounds to me as if you're suggesting that a woman bears some responsibility for getting raped if she wears sexy clothes and walks down a dark street at night.... No, I'm saying that if you wear sexy clothes and walk down a dark street at night, you have a much better chance of being raped so don't be so surprised if it happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted April 4, 2011 Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 Yes, the right to be a crazy religious nutter. Correct...."crazy religious nutters" not only have religious rights but also free speech rights, consequences be damned. Like you bear no responsibility for your car being broken into if you leave your wallet and laptop sitting on the front seat. Maybe I wanted a new laptop! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted April 4, 2011 Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 (edited) No, I'm saying that if you wear sexy clothes and walk down a dark street at night, you have a much better chance of being raped so don't be so surprised if it happens. You didn't say 'don't be surprised if your car gets broken into.' You suggested that some of the blame goes to the person who left their wallet and laptop on the front seat, just as you've been saying that the pastor bears some responsibility. Are you now saying that he doesn't bear any responsibility, only that 'he shouldn't have been surprised that riots and killings took place?' And even at that, if that's what you are saying, sounds as if you are suggesting that whenever something happens that Muslims don't like, we shouldn't be surprised if rioting and killings take place. Is that your stance? Edited April 4, 2011 by American Woman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted April 4, 2011 Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 Correct...."crazy religious nutters" not only have religious rights but also free speech rights, consequences be damned. As long as those consequences don't happen in the US. Maybe I wanted a new laptop! I'm sure this nutter wants something as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted April 4, 2011 Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 As long as those consequences don't happen in the US. No...you still don't get it...even with consequences in the US. I'm sure this nutter wants something as well. ...and you are giving it to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted April 4, 2011 Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 See Inquisition. I'm aware of Peter du Bruis being tossed into his own bonfire of crosses by a mob angry at the act...but I'm having trouble coming-up with an actual event where someone was convicted or heresy and executed for burning a Bible. Perhaps you know of one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted April 4, 2011 Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 (edited) You didn't say 'don't be surprised if your car gets broken into.' You suggested that some of the blame goes to the person who left their wallet and laptop on the front seat, just as you've been saying that the pastor bears some responsibility. Are you now saying that he doesn't bear any responsibility, only that 'he shouldn't have been surprised that riots and killings took place?' And even at that, if that's what you are saying, sounds as if you are suggesting that whenever something happens that Muslims don't like, we shouldn't be surprised if rioting and killings take place. Is that your stance? I'm saying that some of the responsibility goes to the person who left their wallet and laptop on the front seat. If they were not left there, there would have been no theft. I'm also saying that he knew there would be a good chance of riots and killing because of what he did, so he does bear some responsibility. Yes I am saying we shouldn't be surprised that whenever something happens that some Muslims don't like there may be rioting and killing. I'm not saying that is OK, on the contrary it's disgusting but it is a fact of the world we live in. I'm saying that people who would use that to advance their own personal agenda over the dead bodies of innocents are beneath contempt. Edited April 4, 2011 by Wilber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted April 4, 2011 Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 I'm aware of Peter du Bruis being tossed into his own bonfire of crosses by a mob angry at the act...but I'm having trouble coming-up with an actual event where someone was convicted or heresy and executed for burning a Bible. Perhaps you know of one? Maybe not for burning a Bible but they were burned for much less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted April 4, 2011 Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 ...and you are giving it to him. So we should let him carry on and say nothing. I would like to see the relatives of one of the victims sue his ass off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted April 4, 2011 Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 Maybe not for burning a Bible but they were burned for much less. I'm well aware...but, that wasn't the question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted April 4, 2011 Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 I'm well aware...but, that wasn't the question. The answer is no. Are you maintaining that Christianity hasn't ever indulged in the same sort of intolerance and bloodshed we see exhibited by some in the name of Islam? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted April 4, 2011 Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 So we should let him carry on and say nothing. I would like to see the relatives of one of the victims sue his ass off. ..and they have the right to bring such a suit. Do you you prefer some rights over others? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted April 4, 2011 Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 (edited) I'm aware of Peter du Bruis being tossed into his own bonfire of crosses by a mob angry at the act...but I'm having trouble coming-up with an actual event where someone was convicted or heresy and executed for burning a Bible. Perhaps you know of one? Not burning a Bible... But how 'bout translating it into English??? William Tyndale.... Edited April 4, 2011 by Jack Weber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted April 4, 2011 Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 ..and they have the right to bring such a suit. Do you you prefer some rights over others? Nope, just that they be held responsible for their actions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted April 4, 2011 Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 The answer is no. Are you maintaining that Christianity hasn't ever indulged in the same sort of intolerance and bloodshed we see exhibited by some in the name of Islam? Goodness, no. VVitch trials in Germany alone took tens of thousands. But that was the 1600s. Even Islam has had plenty o' time to 'grow-up' since then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted April 4, 2011 Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 Goodness, no. VVitch trials in Germany alone took tens of thousands. But that was the 1600s. Even Islam has had plenty o' time to 'grow-up' since then. Christianity is 600 years older than Islam. 600 years ago, the Church was burning heretics by the dozen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted April 4, 2011 Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 Not burning a Bible... But how 'bout translating it into English??? William Tyndale.... Good catch. Tyndale was a heritic for his Bible and 'reforms'...to some he might as well have put it to the torch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted April 4, 2011 Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 Christianity is 600 years older than Islam. 600 years ago, the Church was burning heretics by the dozen. The Middle East is a lot older than North America. By your logic, we should be catching up to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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