Shwa Posted February 2, 2011 Report Posted February 2, 2011 Interesting Christina Blizzard article from Canoe: Special 'school for poor kids' a poor idea I am not sure this is such a good idea... Starting this September, 150 kids in Grades 6 and 7 will be bused to a special school for low income children. The DSBN Academy comes with a hefty price-tag — $431,600 for busing in the 2011-12 year.Each year, the board will add an extra grade. It will eventually be a Grade 6-12 school. The aim is to attract children who aren’t performing well in the public school system, and provide them with special supports so they can go on to college or university. Quote
Jack Weber Posted February 2, 2011 Report Posted February 2, 2011 Interesting Christina Blizzard article from Canoe: Special 'school for poor kids' a poor idea I am not sure this is such a good idea... I wonder if this is the same sort of idea as the "Afrocentric Schools" in Toronto...The same excuses are being used... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Jack Weber Posted February 3, 2011 Report Posted February 3, 2011 By the way...If you read the title of this thread on the main board it says.. "Special school for poo"... I know it's juvenile,but it's still funny... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Bonam Posted February 3, 2011 Report Posted February 3, 2011 All these kinds of ideas are stupid. The best thing you can do for kids that are having trouble is put them together with other kids that are not having as much trouble and let them socialize and learn from each other. Anyway, the only valuable thing you actually get out of elementary, middle, and high school is the friends and connections you make for life, not the one afternoon's reading worth of sub-wikipedia level knowledge that you gain. The only kids that really need separate instruction are those with real (medically proven) learning disabilities that make them incapable of learning at the same pace as other students, and gifted learners who are bored to death in normal classes and get bullied by their peers for being too smart and nerdy. Quote
Moonlight Graham Posted February 3, 2011 Report Posted February 3, 2011 The only kids that really need separate instruction are those with real (medically proven) learning disabilities that make them incapable of learning at the same pace as other students, and gifted learners who are bored to death in normal classes and get bullied by their peers for being too smart and nerdy. I think you take the fact that you can read, write, and do basic math too much for granted. Quote "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect.
Bonam Posted February 3, 2011 Report Posted February 3, 2011 I think you take the fact that you can read, write, and do basic math too much for granted. Perhaps. Then again, I could do all these things before I ever went to school. Quote
dre Posted February 3, 2011 Report Posted February 3, 2011 (edited) All these kinds of ideas are stupid. The best thing you can do for kids that are having trouble is put them together with other kids that are not having as much trouble and let them socialize and learn from each other. Anyway, the only valuable thing you actually get out of elementary, middle, and high school is the friends and connections you make for life, not the one afternoon's reading worth of sub-wikipedia level knowledge that you gain. The only kids that really need separate instruction are those with real (medically proven) learning disabilities that make them incapable of learning at the same pace as other students, and gifted learners who are bored to death in normal classes and get bullied by their peers for being too smart and nerdy. We should allow students to branch out at a much younger age than we do. By about grade 9 or 10 you should be able to branch into solid vocational program if you cant hack the academic path or done enjoy it, and become a skilled professional. In Finland for example you can branch at age 14, into vocational schooling thats actually part of the k12 curriculum. Its funded and designed in part by private industry so that they can make sure the schools are producing the workers they need. The system produces very few dropouts as a result, and is consistantly the top performing national education system in the world (although it might be second to South Korea now) Edited February 3, 2011 by dre Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
Topaz Posted February 3, 2011 Report Posted February 3, 2011 I'm just wondering that the problem is the word "poor". If they are poor than they probably aren't eating well and so they aren't getting the right kinds of food to feed their brains and body to function. I bet if the medical section tested these kids they would find they are not getting proper diet, lacking vitamins and minerals. Quote
Michael Hardner Posted February 3, 2011 Report Posted February 3, 2011 It's school for poor kids WHO AREN'T DOING WELL. That's not the same as school for poor kids. The secret code here is that they're looking to support kids who aren't getting support at home. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
pfezziwig Posted February 3, 2011 Report Posted February 3, 2011 We already have a school system for the poor here in Nova Scotia, it's our public system. Quote Healthcare Reviews , rate your doctor, dentist, hospital and more
Black Dog Posted February 3, 2011 Report Posted February 3, 2011 It's school for poor kids WHO AREN'T DOING WELL. That's not the same as school for poor kids. The secret code here is that they're looking to support kids who aren't getting support at home. 'A Centre for Kids Who Can't Read Good And Wanna Learn To Do Other Stuff Good Too? Quote
Oleg Bach Posted February 3, 2011 Report Posted February 3, 2011 quote by J - Christ..."The poor will always be with us"..He did not mean materially poor but intellectually and spiritually impoverished...Who is going to decide who is stupid and who is not...The offical plan is to use the parents as a baromenter of stupidity..."if the parents did not attend university" - Why that is absurd...I never attended university and all of my children are successful...big time! This is sadly quaint...private schools for the rich and privledged - and now private schools for the impoverished....a school that will turn out trolls...and if the kid in non-compliant to the conditioning..then I am sure they will be quietly punished....higher education is about compliance not about actually broadening the mind...IF University was so effective we would not have the problems in the world that we have today. Quote
Topaz Posted February 3, 2011 Report Posted February 3, 2011 It's school for poor kids WHO AREN'T DOING WELL. That's not the same as school for poor kids. The secret code here is that they're looking to support kids who aren't getting support at home. OK, what kind of support exactly? Do you mean parents are not helping with the kids home work? Is it the physical care of the kids? The kids don't feel the parents care about them? what? Quote
guyser Posted February 3, 2011 Report Posted February 3, 2011 OK, what kind of support exactly? Do you mean parents are not helping with the kids home work? Is it the physical care of the kids? The kids don't feel the parents care about them? what? Seriously? How about... poorly fed no structure no rules no expectations/undermining confidence. boozing and or abusing parents. fighting ....and a general lack of sense for fostering learning. Think of what your parents did, or not. Quote
Bonam Posted February 3, 2011 Report Posted February 3, 2011 Seriously? How about... poorly fed no structure no rules no expectations/undermining confidence. boozing and or abusing parents. fighting ....and a general lack of sense for fostering learning. Think of what your parents did, or not. And how will going to a school where all the kids have these problems help the kids that are exposed to this? Quote
guyser Posted February 3, 2011 Report Posted February 3, 2011 And how will going to a school where all the kids have these problems help the kids that are exposed to this? Not entirely sure but I would suspect they will start from , and mantain, a different pace. Perhaps they will have breakfast and lunch programmes since studies have proven that fed bodies make better minds. Perhaps Provide better places for quiet study, longer hours.... perhaps counsellors that are well versed in abusive/alcoholic/whatever situations. On the surface of it I think it may work. I would like to know these things work before they throw money at it. Quote
Topaz Posted February 4, 2011 Report Posted February 4, 2011 Seems to me, these families NEED more mental health support to help these kids and families live a better live. The important thing is to get these kids through school, so they won't rely on welfare or other illegal activities in their future. Getting these kids to learn also depends on how well a teacher can teach and relate to the child. Quote
Bonam Posted February 4, 2011 Report Posted February 4, 2011 Seems to me, these families NEED more mental health support to help these kids and families live a better live. The important thing is to get these kids through school, so they won't rely on welfare or other illegal activities in their future. Getting through school is hardly a guarantee of them being productive members of society. Also, while I'm not a fan of welfare, it is not an "illegal activity". Getting these kids to learn also depends on how well a teacher can teach and relate to the child. Which is the biggest problem with our school system. The schools I went to tended to be well funded, have well maintained facilities, acceptable class sizes - but most of the teachers sucked. Same thing with my professors in university. If we could manage even a slight improvement in the quality and enthusiasm of teachers, that would be a greater improvement than any of these schemes could ever achieve. I'll share an anecdote... my sister is in grade 9 right now. Her favorite teacher, the only one that she and her friends all thought of as a really good teacher, had been at the school for just 2 years. He made them all really enthusiastic about math (imagine that, grade 9 girls excited about math) and PE (the two subjects he taught). Well, over winter break, they had to cut a few teachers, and he was let go because he had less seniority than other teachers, having taught for only 2 years. He was replaced with an old lady that all the kids hate. Within a month, my sister went from enjoying math and wanting to learn more, to hating math and counting the days til it's over. And, this decision wasn't even slightly controversial, not questioned or pursued anywhere. He had less seniority, so he was first on the chopping block. The fact that he was a much better teacher didn't even cross anyone's mind. It wasn't even a consideration. The way that teachers unions work needs to be reviewed and significantly modified. The quality of teachers needs to be taken into account, both for compensation and job security, as it is MUCH more relevant to how good of an education the kids get than the seniority of the teacher. Quote
kimmy Posted February 4, 2011 Report Posted February 4, 2011 ' A Centre for Kids Who Can't Read Good And Wanna Learn To Do Other Stuff Good Too? Like you guys, I think the idea of niche-market schools is pretty stupid too... but just to play devil's advocate: Private schools where uniforms are required have argued that uniforms make life easier for the children by removing the stress and status issues and social issues attached to fashion and clothing. Hypothetically... could a "school for poor kids" benefit children in the same way? I mean, we'd like to think that when we send our kids to a public school they'll mix freely with people of all backgrounds... but everybody knows that in reality that cliques form along many different dividing lines, and economic status is probably a significant one. (I didn't have any "poor kids" in any clique I belonged to... but the schools I attended tended to be in pretty affluent areas.) -k Quote (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
August1991 Posted February 4, 2011 Report Posted February 4, 2011 (edited) Like you guys, I think the idea of niche-market schools is pretty stupid too... So I guess you think everyone should wear Uggs too.Then again, if we all simply ate Big Macs, and the government organized production of the hamburgers, we could have utopia. From the OP: Starting this September, 150 kids in Grades 6 and 7 will be bused to a special school for low income children. The DSBN Academy comes with a hefty price-tag — $431,600 for busing in the 2011-12 year.Each year, the board will add an extra grade. It will eventually be a Grade 6-12 school. The aim is to attract children who aren’t performing well in the public school system, and provide them with special supports so they can go on to college or university. To me, this just sounds like GM justifying the creation of a Saturn Division. We have a monolithic education system, based on unionized workers, and it is barely aware that the system doesn't work. Its response? Like GM in the 1970s: Create a new system, separate from the current system. [When GM went into bankruptcy and relied on TARP funds to survive, Saturn was jettisoned. Saturn is no more.] ---- At least with cars, we can choose foreign imports. When it is a question of education, what choice do parents have? IMV, the collapse of North America's education system will be as calamitous as a Middle Eastern regime change. Edited February 4, 2011 by August1991 Quote
Shwa Posted February 4, 2011 Author Report Posted February 4, 2011 So I guess you think everyone should wear Uggs too. Then again, if we all simply ate Big Macs, and the government organized production of the hamburgers, we could have utopia. From the OP: To me, this just sounds like GM justifying the creation of a Saturn Division. We have a monolithic education system, based on unionized workers, and it is barely aware that the system doesn't work. Its response? Like GM in the 1970s: Create a new system, separate from the current system. [When GM went into bankruptcy and relied on TARP funds to survive, Saturn was jettisoned. Saturn is no more.] ---- At least with cars, we can choose foreign imports. When it is a question of education, what choice do parents have? IMV, the collapse of North America's education system will be as calamitous as a Middle Eastern regime change. The system doesn't work? Quote
August1991 Posted February 4, 2011 Report Posted February 4, 2011 (edited) The system doesn't work? No, it doesn't. And it's getting worse. And it's costing more.Our education system, like our health system, is costing more and working less. IOW, both are Soviet. To use a modern term, they are unsustainable. (It took about 70 years for the Soviet system to collapse. I give about the same lifespan for North America's centralized, unionized education system.) ---- Shwa, if you don't believe me, the OP is a small indication. As I posted above, it's like GM in 1970 creating a Saturn Division. Edited February 4, 2011 by August1991 Quote
kimmy Posted February 4, 2011 Report Posted February 4, 2011 So I guess you think everyone should wear Uggs too. I don't think anyone should wear Uggs, August! You'll have to elaborate on why you don't think the system works. By the most obvious metrics-- good results for the largest number of students-- the system appears to work very well. Where the system may not work particularly well is for students who are not "typical". These proposals we're now seeing -- "afrocentric" schools, a school aimed at children from poor families-- appears to be an attempt to address that problem: we're good at dealing with "typical" kids but not very good at helping the exceptions. Do you have "choice"? I believe there are plenty of private schools, charter schools, and so on. There's also home-schooling. How would you give parents more "choice" in a "sustainable" manner? Give us an idea of what you'd like to see to make the system less "soviet". -k Quote (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
PIK Posted February 4, 2011 Report Posted February 4, 2011 Lets call it what it really is, special school for poor immigrant kids, that will be the main tennent, since the immigrant in the last few years or so are not doing well at all. We are full and can not take anymore untill we get the house in order. When we are spending more money on immigrant services then health care, we have a problem. Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
guyser Posted February 4, 2011 Report Posted February 4, 2011 Lets call it what it really is, special school for poor immigrant kids, that will be the main tennent, since the immigrant in the last few years or so are not doing well at all. We are full and can not take anymore untill we get the house in order. When we are spending more money on immigrant services then health care, we have a problem. Id ask for a link that confirms this but we both know that aint happening. I doubt it will be immigrant kids. Immigrants seem to be wanting for as much education for their kids as they can get. I know....I bet its for white kids who have drunken fathers and mothers, or l;acking in any so called mentoring ..... Quote
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