nicky10013 Posted January 17, 2011 Report Share Posted January 17, 2011 http://opinion.financialpost.com/2011/01/15/terence-corcoran-tories%E2%80%99-fiscal-promises-unfulfilled/ And then there's this article from the Globe and Mail. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opinions/opinion/whistlin-past-the-graveyard-of-conservative-vows/article1869229/ Seems people are waking up and realizing that Conservatives merely pay lip service to their own "beliefs" just to get elected. I put that in quotations because it's clear that conservative governments have any intention of living up to their own rhetoric. Funny, in the comment section in the National Post, a poster laments that the only time Canada has seen truly fiscally conservative economic management was under Chretien. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted January 17, 2011 Report Share Posted January 17, 2011 This may explain why Harper throws out socially conservative press releases from time to time... to keep the cheering section happy.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted January 17, 2011 Report Share Posted January 17, 2011 Oh it's no secret Harper hasn't been fiscally conservative. He's thrown money around just like any other pandering minority PM we've had. It's disappointing when you see guys like Paul Martin and Harper dropping their pants and whoring the budget off for votes when you expected better from them, but that's the way politics are.. :angry: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted January 17, 2011 Report Share Posted January 17, 2011 (edited) Seems people are waking up and realizing that Conservatives merely pay lip service to their own "beliefs" just to get elected. I put that in quotations because it's clear that conservative governments have any intention of living up to their own rhetoric. Most of the people who vote for them pay lip service to their own beliefs and rhetoric too. Consider how many swear up and down they want the government off people's back when it comes to their individual behaviour and yet time and time again they vote for a party that insists on climbing all over them anyway. The Conservatives and their base of support go together like peas and carrots, always have and probably always will. Edited January 17, 2011 by eyeball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saipan Posted January 17, 2011 Report Share Posted January 17, 2011 Yes, Liberals can stick their registration where the Sun don't shine. It may fit in Iggy's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicky10013 Posted January 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2011 Yes, Liberals can stick their registration where the Sun don't shine. It may fit in Iggy's What registration? Oh, let me guess...the National Post is just another lame stream media liberal elite paper...right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodyminded Posted January 17, 2011 Report Share Posted January 17, 2011 To say there's a pattern here, as the NP suddenly "discovers" that the conservatives aren't fiscally conservative, is to understae the matter. It is always "doscovered" by the supporters of every conservative leadership (every conservative leadership) that their guys are not fiscal conservatives. And they always seem surprised. It's odd. Let's repeat this, for the benefit of the True Believers: The Conservatives are not fiscal conservatives; the Conservatives are not fiscal conservatives. The question is begged, of course, as to why they keep believing what is patently untrue. (Now, let's cue someone rebutting that "the Liberals and NDP aren't fiscal conservatives either." So I pre-empt: Right. Agreed. Never made the claim; you guys were the ones making the claim. ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodyminded Posted January 17, 2011 Report Share Posted January 17, 2011 What registration? Oh, let me guess...the National Post is just another lame stream media liberal elite paper...right? Yes...the NP is part of the leftist bias. They pretend to be right of centre, but it's all part of the lefty's deceptive plan. The institutional rot goes very deep indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted January 17, 2011 Report Share Posted January 17, 2011 http://opinion.financialpost.com/2011/01/15/terence-corcoran-tories%E2%80%99-fiscal-promises-unfulfilled/ And then there's this article from the Globe and Mail. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opinions/opinion/whistlin-past-the-graveyard-of-conservative-vows/article1869229/ Seems people are waking up and realizing that Conservatives merely pay lip service to their own "beliefs" just to get elected. I put that in quotations because it's clear that conservative governments have any intention of living up to their own rhetoric. Funny, in the comment section in the National Post, a poster laments that the only time Canada has seen truly fiscally conservative economic management was under Chretien. Fiscal conservatives have been extinct in North America for more than 30 years. The only meaningful attempts to balance spending with revenue in Canada since Iv been alive (Im 38) came during Paul Martins terms as finance minister. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted January 17, 2011 Report Share Posted January 17, 2011 The question is begged, of course, as to why they keep believing what is patently untrue. Even that question is pretty easily answered... campaign sloganeering works! Its hard for people to accept the way our government normally does business because if your average dude ran his household that way he would be bankrupt within a couple of years. So when politicians campaign on fiscal restraint that message resonates with a lot of people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.P. Lehmann Posted January 17, 2011 Report Share Posted January 17, 2011 Do you feel that there would be enough support for a party based on fiscal conservatism in Canada? ala. The Tea Party?.... obviously Canadianized with less right wing rhetoric but I think something like this could have legs north of the border. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodyminded Posted January 17, 2011 Report Share Posted January 17, 2011 (edited) Even that question is pretty easily answered... campaign sloganeering works! Its hard for people to accept the way our government normally does business because if your average dude ran his household that way he would be bankrupt within a couple of years. So when politicians campaign on fiscal restraint that message resonates with a lot of people. You must be right. I still find it a little strange. Even those conservatives--and there are lots of them--who recognize the disconnect....will say things like, "Well, I vote Conservative because at least they're more likely to behave in a fiscally conservative manner." To which one might reply: what in hell makes you think so? Because they said so in campaign mode? Really??? In short: they never do. Ever. But they're "more likely" to do so...because of...some force, as yet undefined. Edited January 17, 2011 by bloodyminded Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodyminded Posted January 17, 2011 Report Share Posted January 17, 2011 (edited) Do you feel that there would be enough support for a party based on fiscal conservatism in Canada? ala. The Tea Party?.... obviously Canadianized with less right wing rhetoric but I think something like this could have legs north of the border. It's not unthinkable, but it would remain the same failure of principles. Because the Tea Party are not fiscal conservatives. They keep repeating that they are, yes, I agree. Edited January 17, 2011 by bloodyminded Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Posted January 17, 2011 Report Share Posted January 17, 2011 To say there's a pattern here, as the NP suddenly "discovers" that the conservatives aren't fiscally conservative, is to understae the matter. It is always "doscovered" by the supporters of every conservative leadership (every conservative leadership) that their guys are not fiscal conservatives. And they always seem surprised. It's odd. Let's repeat this, for the benefit of the True Believers: The Conservatives are not fiscal conservatives; the Conservatives are not fiscal conservatives. The question is begged, of course, as to why they keep believing what is patently untrue. (Now, let's cue someone rebutting that "the Liberals and NDP aren't fiscal conservatives either." So I pre-empt: Right. Agreed. Never made the claim; you guys were the ones making the claim. ) Well BM, in the immortal words of Gomer Pyle: "Surprise, surprise, surprise!" The present day CPC is a clone of the old PC Party. As we Reformers used to say, "Liberal, Tory, same old story!" They are politicians first and foremost. Ideology comes a distant second. Only Reform was wedded to the idea of fiscal conservatism, or at least fiscal responsibility. All the other parties worry about achieving and retaining power before anything else. Harper is a smart political pragmatist. He is doing what he thinks will advance the interests of his party. Perhaps if he wins a majority we might see him start acting on principle. I wouldn't hold my breath, however. Once a politician turns to the Dark Side he rarely pulls a Vader and recants! People who quote Liberals like Paul Martin as fiscal conservatives should keep in mind that Martin acted that way when he had both the political power and the tools to do it. It also helped when Chretien first took power after Mulroney/Campbell that we were in a deep recession and the "international finance gnomes" were ready to pull our credit rating! So not only did he have little choice but he also had an easy ride to make it happen. To paraphrase JFK, true character is shown not when it's easy but when it's hard! I really don't see much difference between Harper's government today and that of those years of Chretien and Martin, except of course that Harper's tenure has been relatively free of scandal. No one has been caught stealing from us like with the Liberals! I really find it funny that this is bothering so many people, when the Liberals were always just the same! Harper had some good role models to study. Putting Harper down will not make the Liberals any more 'holy'. Those railing against Harper for not acting on principles (principles that THEY define and then use them as their yardstick against him, of course!) are making the mistake as seeing him as still a Reformer. He's NOT! Perhaps he never was. Whatever, today he's a political pragmatist, no different from any of the others. The CPC, as I keep repeating, is NOT the heir of Reform but rather of the old PC Party. If you need a model of his style to help make predictions for his actions, think Mulroney and not Manning and you'll end up more accurate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodyminded Posted January 17, 2011 Report Share Posted January 17, 2011 I really don't see much difference between Harper's government today and that of those years of Chretien and Martin, except of course that Harper's tenure has been relatively free of scandal. No one has been caught stealing from us like with the Liberals! I really find it funny that this is bothering so many people, when the Liberals were always just the same! Harper had some good role models to study. Putting Harper down will not make the Liberals any more 'holy'. No, but I'm not defending the Liberals. Not even in some peripheral way, through denouncing the Conservatives. Wild Bill, in the very post of mine from which you quoted, I predicted that someone would respond about the Liberals being bo better, etc etc. So I repeat: I agree. I am not defensive about the Liberals. I have no part of my identity tied up with them. I do think Conservative supporters are far too defensive about Harper, by the way. Why? I have no idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.P. Lehmann Posted January 17, 2011 Report Share Posted January 17, 2011 Canada has typically been very socialist and the concept of fiscal restraint would indeed produce a downsizing of some social programs to an extent;however, one can see a federal deficit and attempts to alter CPP as forshadowing a "downsizing" movement. I think its just a matter of time before something like this gains momentum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted January 17, 2011 Report Share Posted January 17, 2011 I do think Conservative supporters are far too defensive about Harper, by the way. Why? I have no idea. Apparently it might have to do with their enlarged amygdalas, they can't help themselves. We probably just have to live with it. Perhaps another 50,000 years of evolution will make a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Posted January 17, 2011 Report Share Posted January 17, 2011 No, but I'm not defending the Liberals. Not even in some peripheral way, through denouncing the Conservatives. Wild Bill, in the very post of mine from which you quoted, I predicted that someone would respond about the Liberals being bo better, etc etc. So I repeat: I agree. I am not defensive about the Liberals. I have no part of my identity tied up with them. I do think Conservative supporters are far too defensive about Harper, by the way. Why? I have no idea. I noted that you agree, BM! Didn't surprise me none. We seem to agree far more than we disagree, at least lately! Why the defensiveness? Probably because Tory supporters are so used to being called everything from Nazis to agents of George Bush all these years that they tend to become a bit thin-skinned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted January 17, 2011 Report Share Posted January 17, 2011 (edited) There is another difference between Harper and Chretien. Chretien actually balanced the budget...and cut spending. Edited January 17, 2011 by Smallc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topaz Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 Can any of the supporters of Harper give reasons why Harper should stay in the PMO? Is your life better under the Tories and if so how? I'll say mine isn't. My hubby lost his job and I blame the two major governments for it happening. It happened so fast that no one was prepared for the downfall of jobs, which haven't come back. Do you need to know how tough its been? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saipan Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 Can any of the supporters of Harper give reasons why Harper should stay in the PMO? Yes, the economy. Canada is doing far better than most countries in this world depression. Is your life better under the Tories and if so how? Yes, under Chretien my pension was worth only 62 cents on a dollar. I'll say mine isn't. My hubby lost his job Which province? Btw, do you think you're alone? I blame the two major governments for it happening. He had government job? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topaz Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 I know I'm not alone any one that worked for the manufacturing sector got hit, some more than others. I've seen people lose their homes, the families break up, alcoholism, domestic violence, everything that goes with a communities with no jobs. The good paying jobs are disappearing and so will the middle-class. Do you think generation X and Y is going to buy a house? Only if they are highly educated or their well to do parents help them. That generation will be lucky to pay the rent, you can't make a moertgage on 10.25 hrly wage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 Yes, the economy. Canada is doing far better than most countries in this world depression. Can you tell me specifically what the Harper gov did that caused this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 It's incredibly hard to judge how "fiscally conservative" Harper is when he has only controlled minority govts. It would be difficult, i would imagine, for Harper to implement significant conservative economic legislation when all other parties in the House of Commons are left-wing economically. Also, the article doesn't mention how the CPC reduced the GST twice, and how they haven't brought in any kind of carbon tax. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esq Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 S Can any of the supporters of Harper give reasons why Harper should stay in the PMO? Someone should tell the next PM what the heck he did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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