National Post: Harper No Fiscal Conservative

[Shady]

There is another difference between Harper and Chretien. Chretien actually balanced the budget...and cut spending.

Yes, and Chretien had a majority government to do it. He didn't have the other parties trying to take down his government in favour of more and larger spending.

That beind said, I don't believe Harper has been fiscally conservative enough. He needs to take a page out of Chretien's time in office. It's time for at least an across the board 10% reduction in spending. But that's the ironic part about this. The people complaining about Harper's fiscal actions, are the last one's that would actually support him adopting the Chretien/Martin plan of the mid to late 90's.

Come'on nicky, eyeball, bloodyminded, dre, Topaz, etc. How about it? 10% across the board budget cut! Will you help support Harper to get this done? Who's with me!

[nicky10013]

Yes, and Chretien had a majority government to do it. He didn't have the other parties trying to take down his government in favour of more and larger spending.

That beind said, I don't believe Harper has been fiscally conservative enough. He needs to take a page out of Chretien's time in office. It's time for at least an across the board 10% reduction in spending. But that's the ironic part about this. The people complaining about Harper's fiscal actions, are the last one's that would actually support him adopting the Chretien/Martin plan of the mid to late 90's.

Come'on nicky, eyeball, bloodyminded, dre, Topaz, etc. How about it? 10% across the board budget cut! Will you help support Harper to get this done? Who's with me!

Bahahahahah. 99% of the complaints against Ignatieff and Dion are that they've let Harper rule like he's had a majority. Liberals have complained when saying as such, Conservatives have laughed with glee while repeating the same thing.

Now it's because the CPC isn't powerful enough? Puh-lease. All the CPC needed to do to keep the fiscally responsible tag was to keep doing what the Liberals did. The opposition didn't force the CPC to slash the GST and hike spending. THe CPC cabinet is the largest in Canadian history. No one forced them to do that. No one forced them to spend millions of more on polling and borderline partisan government advertising.

No, this one isn't on the opposition. This is all on the CPC. Nice try, though.

[Battletoads]

Anyone who hasn't figured this out yet is a moron.

[Shady]

Bahahahahah. 99% of the complaints against Ignatieff and Dion are that they've let Harper rule like he's had a majority. Liberals have complained when saying as such, Conservatives have laughed with glee while repeating the same thing.

Now it's because the CPC isn't powerful enough? Puh-lease. All the CPC needed to do to keep the fiscally responsible tag was to keep doing what the Liberals did. The opposition didn't force the CPC to slash the GST and hike spending. THe CPC cabinet is the largest in Canadian history. No one forced them to do that. No one forced them to spend millions of more on polling and borderline partisan government advertising.

No, this one isn't on the opposition. This is all on the CPC. Nice try, though.

Are you with me on the 10% across the board budget cut? I mean, it's only half of what Chretien/Martin did, but it's a good start. Are you with me?

[Shady]

All the CPC needed to do to keep the fiscally responsible tag was to keep doing what the Liberals did.

That's complete nonsense.

The opposition didn't force the CPC to slash the GST and hike spending.

The current deficit is mostly due to a revenue drop due to the American recession.

No, this one isn't on the opposition. This is all on the CPC. Nice try, though.

Sorry, but you can't re-write history. It was the opposition that threatened an election in order to get tens of billions in deficit stimulus spending. And now you have the nerve to complain about deficits? That's rich.

[eyeball]

Yes, and Chretien had a majority government to do it. He didn't have the other parties trying to take down his government in favour of more and larger spending.

That beind said, I don't believe Harper has been fiscally conservative enough. He needs to take a page out of Chretien's time in office. It's time for at least an across the board 10% reduction in spending. But that's the ironic part about this. The people complaining about Harper's fiscal actions, are the last one's that would actually support him adopting the Chretien/Martin plan of the mid to late 90's.

Come'on nicky, eyeball, bloodyminded, dre, Topaz, etc. How about it? 10% across the board budget cut! Will you help support Harper to get this done? Who's with me!

So how do you expect Harper to meet the costs of jumping up and down on people's backs harder than ever before, an across the board 10% reduction in our civil rights?

[bloodyminded]

I noted that you agree, BM! Didn't surprise me none. We seem to agree far more than we disagree, at least lately!

Why the defensiveness? Probably because Tory supporters are so used to being called everything from Nazis to agents of George Bush all these years that they tend to become a bit thin-skinned.

Yes, that's true.

But there's no shortage of insults towards what is deemed "the left" (which is, in an odd world view, everything from Bill Clinton to Noam Chomsky to the Weather Undergound to Hitler. It's become a pretty promiscuous attribution.)

[nicky10013]

That's complete nonsense.

Hilarious considering the source.

The current deficit is mostly due to a revenue drop due to the American recession.

We were in deficit before the recession so nice try.

Sorry, but you can't re-write history. It was the opposition that threatened an election in order to get tens of billions in deficit stimulus spending. And now you have the nerve to complain about deficits? That's rich.

Yeah, a 30 billion dollar stimulus program and the deficits is now up to nearly 60. Even with the recession, even with the stimulus, it doesn't matter. The deficit is structural. Even before the recession, with the GST cut and the expansion in government, Ottawa was already in the red by the tune of 2-3 billion.

[Shady]

We were in deficit before the recession so nice try.

Not true.

Yeah, a 30 billion dollar stimulus program and the deficits is now up to nearly 60.

Good. So you're admitting that your party is responsible for more than half of the deficit. And now you have the nerve to complain? That's rich.

The deficit is structural.

Not really. You're just one of the many that continue to perpetrate that myth. I'll refer you to my topic from the Ottawa Citizen.

The federal deficit is out of control. Canada is in the midst of another fiscal crisis. Or so goes the conventional wisdom. But the conventional wisdom is wrong.

To be sure, the federal deficit, now $56 billion, is non-trivial. But it is nothing like the deficits of the 1980s and 1990s in its size relative to the economy, or as a percentage of Gross Domestic Product (GDP), the most important measure. In those days, deficits charted in at five to eight per cent of GDP, as opposed to about 3.5 per cent today.

More importantly, the Trudeau and Mulroney deficits of the '70s, '80s and '90s eventually came to have a pernicious effect on the economy overall, fuelling inflation, driving up interest rates and exacerbating unemployment. Today's federal deficit is quite the opposite. It was designed to stimulate the economy to weather the worst global recession in 80 years. It is mostly time-bound, consisting of temporary program spending that will tail off in two to three years.

MLW

[Jack Weber]

Sorry, but you can't re-write history. It was the opposition that threatened an election in order to get tens of billions in deficit stimulus spending. And now you have the nerve to complain about deficits? That's rich.

And Mr.Harper had THE CHOICE to not kowtow to the opposition,not prorogue Parliament,and potentially,fall on his sword...

He CHOSE power over principle,and now,has a deficit to try to wriggle out of...

[bloodyminded]

Yeah...man o man, this keeps happening. Harper fans simply will not hold him responsible for anything.

It's all the Liberals' fault. Every.Damn.Thing.

And we mock American partisanship! Wow.

I think many, maybe most of the criticisms of the Liberals are probably true enough. I just don't understand the revulsion that Harper admirers feel towards mirrors.

Edited January 18, 2011 by bloodyminded

[Smallc]

We were in deficit before the recession so nice try.

That isn't really true. The US entered recession at the end of 2007, and we certainly weren't in deficit then.

[Moonlight Graham]

That isn't really true. The US entered recession at the end of 2007, and we certainly weren't in deficit then.

true.

[Topaz]

I'm NOT going to support a PM that gives themselves a $13,000.00 year rise, takes the country into a deficit BEFORE the recession hit Canada, lied about the Income Trust,opens up the 40 year mortgages only to see their mistake and takes it down to 30 and then Canadians have to PAY for THEIR mistakes, which they NEVER admit to. He wants to spend 16 Billion upward for jet fighters, which should be an open bid. He may have gotten a Masters in Economics, but I wondered if he cheated? The one thing that really gets me, is that IF we have an election again, the Liberals will have to clean up the mess the Tories left behind and again, the Canadian people will have to do the sacrificing once more!!

[Saipan]

It's all the Liberals' fault. Every.Damn.Thing.

Acutally Mike Harris and G.W. Bush.

That's why this thread.

[nicky10013]

That isn't really true. The US entered recession at the end of 2007, and we certainly weren't in deficit then.

We aren't the US.

[Saipan]

We aren't the US.

Fortunately.

We have Harper and they have Obama

[nicky10013]

Not true.

It's very much true.

Good. So you're admitting that your party is responsible for more than half of the deficit. And now you have the nerve to complain? That's rich.

So what you're saying is that the opposition shouldn't critique an extra 30 billion tacked onto a deficit? Are you fucking nuts?

Not really. You're just one of the many that continue to perpetrate that myth. I'll refer you to my topic from the Ottawa Citizen.

The PBO disagrees. Who shall I believe, the PBO or you and a reporter? The choice is easy.

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/285523

[bloodyminded]

Fortunately.

We have Harper and they have Obama

And you consider them terrifically different...how?

[Saipan]

So what you're saying is that the opposition shouldn't critique an extra 30 billion tacked onto a deficit? Are you fucking nuts?

They are free to critique till the cows come home. It makes no difference. They don't undestand biggest depression since the last one in 1930.

The bigger problem by far is the national debt. Present of Peeair Ediot Trudeau.

[Shady]

He CHOSE power over principle

I agree, it wasn't a good choice. He should have fought harder and forced the opposition to call an election.

It's very much true.

Again, you're completely wrong. As Smallc already pointed out, the recession began in 2007. We were not in deficit then.

So what you're saying is that the opposition shouldn't critique an extra 30 billion tacked onto a deficit? Are you fucking nuts?

If the opposition wants to criticize the $30 billion they helped add on to the deficit when they threatening to dissolve parlaiment and call an election, go for it. But they'll look pretty stupid doing so. It was added on because of them.

That being said, as I've already mentioned many times before. I don't think Harper has done a good job in controlling spending. That's why I'd prefer he follow the Chretien/Martin model, and make a modest accross the board budget cut. Even just something like 5% would do the trick.

[Smallc]

We aren't the US.

You said the recession. The recession wasn't limited to Canada. When the Us started shrinking, it very negatively affected our growth to the point where even if we weren't in recession, our revenues were falling.

[nicky10013]

You said the recession. The recession wasn't limited to Canada. When the Us started shrinking, it very negatively affected our growth to the point where even if we weren't in recession, our revenues were falling.

Considering Canada was in positive growth until 2008, I doubt that. With growth, comes greater revenue. If the economy was slowing down that much that the receipts the government was taking in would be that negatively affected, there would've been a decline in GDP much sooner than we saw.

[nicky10013]

Again, you're completely wrong. As Smallc already pointed out, the recession began in 2007. We were not in deficit then.

As much as I respect smallc, he's wrong on this one so don't hide behind him on it. You had no idea what you were talking about until he coincidentally agreed with you.

If the opposition wants to criticize the $30 billion they helped add on to the deficit when they threatening to dissolve parlaiment and call an election, go for it. But they'll look pretty stupid doing so. It was added on because of them.

No, the only people looking stupid would be the people arguing that 30 is the same as 56. As in because the opposition wanted thirty, they shouldn't cry when the government pisses away 30 more. Because obviously it's their fault anyway that the CPC can't manage our finances to save their life. Moron.

That being said, as I've already mentioned many times before. I don't think Harper has done a good job in controlling spending. That's why I'd prefer he follow the Chretien/Martin model, and make a modest accross the board budget cut. Even just something like 5% would do the trick.

Then vote Liberal. No conservative in the history of conservatism has lived up to their promise. Who has? The Liberals.

Oh yeah, that's right. I mentioned it before but I'll bring it up again. For Conservatives it isn't about ideology, it's about the team nature of sports. People like you can't understand the complicated nature of policy and finance, so despite whatever happens, it's the other guys fault because YOUR guy can never be wrong. They may be screwing up right now, but they REALLY believe in giving me my money back because I know how to spend it best. No, of course they're not being cynical and lying to me just to win my vote, because they're all good guys....aren't they?

[Smallc]

Considering Canada was in positive growth until 2008, I doubt that. With growth, comes greater revenue.

That's generally true, but with reduced growth comes reduced growth in revenue. It isn't rocket science...it's economics .

Edited January 19, 2011 by Smallc