Why Are Atheists Cowards?

[Shady]

Soon you'll be linking to Depeche Mode videos and threatening to cut off their heads.

Nice!

[WIP]

here you go:

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20101202/atheist-bus-ads-101202/

Allah is the first religion mentioned on the bus ad.

I don't know if anyone else here is, or has in the past been a member of C.F.I., but for myself, it was when they changed focus from promoting secular humanism to aggressive publicity stunts like "Blasphemy Day" or these stupid bus ads, that I decided to cancel my membership. These strategies, and the popularity of so called "new atheist" writers like Dawkins, Harris and Hitchens -- tells me that secular humanists also have a zealous, fundamentalist wing, that has no more tolerance for different worldviews than the average religious fundamentalist.

For what it's worth, I'm surprised to read in that article that Justin Trottier is now the head of C.F.I. Canada! When he was in charge of C.F.I. Ontario it might just as well have been called CFI Toronto...because he, and his small staff in their little headquarters were no help to freethought meetup groups outside of Toronto!

[Guest TrueMetis]

I don't know if anyone else here is, or has in the past been a member of C.F.I., but for myself, it was when they changed focus from promoting secular humanism to aggressive publicity stunts like "Blasphemy Day" or these stupid bus ads, that I decided to cancel my membership. These strategies, and the popularity of so called "new atheist" writers like Dawkins, Harris and Hitchens -- tells me that secular humanists also have a zealous, fundamentalist wing, that has no more tolerance for different worldviews than the average religious fundamentalist.

Atheists fundamentalists are mean, religious fundamentalists kill people and blow stuff up. I know which one I prefer.

Edited December 22, 2010 by TrueMetis

[DogOnPorch]

M101...25 million light years distant...and in the past. Notice the new stars in the outer spirals and the older stars towards the core which all probably circle a massive black hole...like in our own Milky Way spiral galaxy.

[WIP]

Atheists fundamentalists are mean, religious fundamentalists kill people and blow stuff up. I know which one I prefer.

I'm not a fan of any varieties of fundamentalism. The New Atheists are just one more niche group proclaiming that they have the answers and everyone else is wrong! It's not the kind of development I would have expected from people who are supposed to be motivated by reason rather than faith.

[Guest TrueMetis]

I'm not a fan of any varieties of fundamentalism. The New Atheists are just one more niche group proclaiming that they have the answers and everyone else is wrong! It's not the kind of development I would have expected from people who are supposed to be motivated by reason rather than faith.

I haven't heard any of them claim they have the answers, they do claim that the religious don't have the answers though.

[WIP]

I haven't heard any of them claim they have the answers, they do claim that the religious don't have the answers though.

And that is all that needs to be said! Religion...and we should break it down to religious dogma, specifically the belief in God, and all sorts of supernatural entities like immortal souls -- are not things that I would consider more than magical answers. They don't really answer any questions for me, and I prefer dealing with things that have some basis in reality. Nevertheless, the New Atheist claims that no one needs that sort of religion, and everyone should be a naturalist, presumes that everyone should think the same, and find value in the same things. And that is definitely fundamentalist thinking.

[Guest TrueMetis]

And that is all that needs to be said! Religion...and we should break it down to religious dogma, specifically the belief in God, and all sorts of supernatural entities like immortal souls -- are not things that I would consider more than magical answers. They don't really answer any questions for me, and I prefer dealing with things that have some basis in reality. Nevertheless, the New Atheist claims that no one needs that sort of religion, and everyone should be a naturalist, presumes that everyone should think the same, and find value in the same things. And that is definitely fundamentalist thinking.

That's not what I got out of the lectures and book I've read from these "New Atheists" (First time I've even heard this term) but maybe I missed something.

[WIP]

That's not what I got out of the lectures and book I've read from these "New Atheists" (First time I've even heard this term) but maybe I missed something.

It's a name that has been applied by others to describe them. I think it started five years ago when Wired Magazine wrote a long piece about Dawkins, Daniel Dennett and Sam Harris. It's not exactly new, since Madelyn Murray O'Haire - the creator of American Atheists was every bit as strident and insulting as any new atheist writer. The main difference is that most secular humanists over the years have collaborated with liberal religionists on issues. Some of the new atheists, like Sam Harris, argue against this sort of fellowship -- and he even goes so far as to call religious moderates worse than fundamentalists, by claiming that they are the vehicle for providing legitimacy for the extremists. In Harris's ideal world, there should be no moderates blurring the lines between warring groups of fundamentalists!

[Shady]

These strategies, and the popularity of so called "new atheist" writers like Dawkins, Harris and Hitchens -- tells me that secular humanists also have a zealous, fundamentalist wing, that has no more tolerance for different worldviews than the average religious fundamentalist.

There is definitely something ironic about prosthelytizing atheists!!!

[Black Dog]

I'm not a fan of any varieties of fundamentalism. The New Atheists are just one more niche group proclaiming that they have the answers and everyone else is wrong! It's not the kind of development I would have expected from people who are supposed to be motivated by reason rather than faith.

Ah yes: the old "if they were so tolerant they would tolerate intolerance!" line.

[GostHacked]

And that is all that needs to be said! Religion...and we should break it down to religious dogma, specifically the belief in God, and all sorts of supernatural entities like immortal souls -- are not things that I would consider more than magical answers. They don't really answer any questions for me, and I prefer dealing with things that have some basis in reality. Nevertheless, the New Atheist claims that no one needs that sort of religion, and everyone should be a naturalist, presumes that everyone should think the same, and find value in the same things. And that is definitely fundamentalist thinking.

No that is just human thinking. We all live by the same basic rules in every country. Don't be an ass to one another, don't hurt people, don'rt kill people, don''t steal. ect ect ... all this we all can agree on, and are essentially universal for the most part. You don't need religion to tell you how you should be towards your fellow man.

[Oleg Bach]

While being a proponent of capitalism too...he must be the original social democrat...

Matthew 25:14-30

Jesus was a true socialist..."sell your property and put the money in a common purse (common wealth) - and let those come and take as NEEDED" - well things went bad when the church took ten percent for 2000 years and NO ONE..was allowed to withdraw from this common account . Socialism became corrupted instantly.

[dre]

And that is all that needs to be said! Religion...and we should break it down to religious dogma, specifically the belief in God, and all sorts of supernatural entities like immortal souls -- are not things that I would consider more than magical answers. They don't really answer any questions for me, and I prefer dealing with things that have some basis in reality. Nevertheless, the New Atheist claims that no one needs that sort of religion, and everyone should be a naturalist, presumes that everyone should think the same, and find value in the same things. And that is definitely fundamentalist thinking.

The problem is that abrahamic religions are all zealously trying to take over the world. They send people far and wide to try to convert people and theres millions of evangelicals. And now the abrahamites are trying to get theology back into schools as well. And the government and public are actually sponsoring them in this endeavor by giving them tax exempt status So some evidencebasedrealitiests feel they have no choice but to be more evangelical themselves . Remember... in places like the US atheists are the most hated minority that there is, and its a SMALL minority. Theyre fighting back and I cant say I really blame them.

Edited December 22, 2010 by dre

[Shady]

Remember... in places like the US atheists are the most hated minority that there is, and its a SMALL minority.

Complete and utter nonsense.

[Bonam]

The problem is that abrahamic religions are all zealously trying to take over the world. They send people far and wide to try to convert people and theres millions of evangelicals. And now the abrahamites are trying to get theology back into schools as well. And the government and public are actually sponsoring them in this endeavor by giving them tax exempt status So some evidencebasedrealitiests feel they have no choice but to be more evangelical themselves . Remember... in places like the US atheists are the most hated minority that there is, and its a SMALL minority. Theyre fighting back and I cant say I really blame them.

Technically, it's just Muslims and Christians that try to convert people, Jews don't really do much of that.

Complete and utter nonsense.

Not really. I remember a poll showed that (statistically) Americans mistrust atheists even more than they mistrust Muslims, by a small margin.

[dre]

Complete and utter nonsense.

Every single study that has ever looked at the issue has revealed massive amounts of bigotry and prejudice against atheists in America. The most recent data shows that atheists are more distrusted and despised than any other minority and that an atheist is the least likely person that Americans would vote for in a presidential election. It's not just that atheists are hated, though, but also that atheists seem to represent everything about modernity which Americans dislike or fear.

The most recent study was conducted by the University of Minnesota, which found that atheists ranked lower than "Muslims, recent immigrants, gays and lesbians and other minority groups in 'sharing their vision of American society.' Atheists are also the minority group most Americans are least willing to allow their children to marry." The results from two of the most important questions were:

This group does not at all agree with my vision of American society...

Atheist: 39.6%

Muslims: 26.3%

Homosexuals: 22.6%

Hispanics: 20%

Conservative Christians: 13.5%

Recent Immigrants: 12.5%

Jews: 7.6%

I would disapprove if my child wanted to marry a member of this group....

Atheist: 47.6%

Muslim: 33.5%

[dre]

Technically, it's just Muslims and Christians that try to convert people, Jews don't really do much of that.

Not really. I remember a poll showed that (statistically) Americans mistrust atheists even more than they mistrust Muslims, by a small margin.

Technically, it's just Muslims and Christians that try to convert people, Jews don't really do much of that.

Good catch, fair enough. My point still stands though in general.

[WIP]

No that is just human thinking. We all live by the same basic rules in every country. Don't be an ass to one another, don't hurt people, don'rt kill people, don''t steal. ect ect ... all this we all can agree on, and are essentially universal for the most part. You don't need religion to tell you how you should be towards your fellow man.

Most people know what's right, but whether they will actually attempt to do what's right is another matter entirely. If it taken seriously, the weekly church interlude can at least remind the people sitting in the pews that they should have other concerns than their own narrow self interests. It's one thing to say that ethics do not need to have a religious source; but another thing to say that no one needs the structure of a religion to behave ethically.

And the other point I mentioned -- new atheist thinking that everyone should be a naturalist, and supernatural beliefs are unnecessary and harmful, do not have any evidence to support them. There is a lot of contrary evidence from developmental psychologists that most supernatural beliefs have their root origins in basic human intuitions of how we make sense of the world and things around us. Whether we continue to be superstitious and/or follow our intuitions -- or choose to find our truth through a process of rationalization, depends alot on our personality and other factors like education and who we have chosen as role models in life. It would be better if all fundamentalists (religious or naturalist) did not assume that everyone should think like they do and value the same things in life.

[WIP]

The problem is that abrahamic religions are all zealously trying to take over the world. They send people far and wide to try to convert people and theres millions of evangelicals. And now the abrahamites are trying to get theology back into schools as well. And the government and public are actually sponsoring them in this endeavor by giving them tax exempt status So some evidencebasedrealitiests feel they have no choice but to be more evangelical themselves . Remember... in places like the US atheists are the most hated minority that there is, and its a SMALL minority. Theyre fighting back and I cant say I really blame them.

Not all "Abrahamites" are trying to destroy secular, public education. And that's why the alarm bells go off when someone like Sam Harris specifically targets moderates as enablers for the fundamentalists. It appears that we are heading into difficult times on a lot of fronts; and fear and uncertainty are enough to increase the appeal of simple-minded fundamentalism for a lot people looking for something to put their trust in. Fundamentalists of all stripes are attacking moderates and progressives who they claim are diluting their "truth."

[WIP]

Remember... in places like the US atheists are the most hated minority that there is, and its a SMALL minority. Theyre fighting back and I cant say I really blame them.

The first problem I have here is that atheists don't have a core set of beliefs to think as a group in the first place. Atheism only describes non-belief, not a set of beliefs or principles. This puts the new atheist movement in a bind, because they are putting a lot of emphasis on organizing atheists around a non-belief. From my brief time in the atheist movement, I was finding that there were a lot of atheists I had almost nothing in common with aside from atheism....especially the fans of Ayn Rand. I find that I have more in common with religious believers who share the same causes I support, than I do with atheist libertarians.

[bloodyminded]

The first problem I have here is that atheists don't have a core set of beliefs to think as a group in the first place. Atheism only describes non-belief, not a set of beliefs or principles. This puts the new atheist movement in a bind, because they are putting a lot of emphasis on organizing atheists around a non-belief. From my brief time in the atheist movement, I was finding that there were a lot of atheists I had almost nothing in common with aside from atheism....especially the fans of Ayn Rand. I find that I have more in common with religious believers who share the same causes I support, than I do with atheist libertarians.

Definitely food for thought here, WIP.

[Shady]

Disagreement with atheist's world view isn't tantamount to hatred. Calling them the most hated group is complete nonsense and hyperbole. Keep strumming the world largest violin.

[Michael Hardner]

The first problem I have here is that atheists don't have a core set of beliefs to think as a group in the first place. Atheism only describes non-belief, not a set of beliefs or principles. This puts the new atheist movement in a bind, because they are putting a lot of emphasis on organizing atheists around a non-belief. From my brief time in the atheist movement, I was finding that there were a lot of atheists I had almost nothing in common with aside from atheism....especially the fans of Ayn Rand. I find that I have more in common with religious believers who share the same causes I support, than I do with atheist libertarians.

The truth of what you say depends on the definition of atheist, which you seem to say is "non-belief". If you define it as such then you're right. Some atheists, though, BELIEVE in a non-god universe which is a belief system.

I do believe in the Christian ideal, and I think that it has helped evolve western philosophy and our live-and-let-live system.

[Black Dog]

Most people know what's right, but whether they will actually attempt to do what's right is another matter entirely. If it taken seriously, the weekly church interlude can at least remind the people sitting in the pews that they should have other concerns than their own narrow self interests. It's one thing to say that ethics do not need to have a religious source; but another thing to say that no one needs the structure of a religion to behave ethically.

What's the problem with that? Are you suggesting that belief in a vengeful sky-god is the only way to keep people from behaving in an ethical capacity?

And the other point I mentioned -- new atheist thinking that everyone should be a naturalist, and supernatural beliefs are unnecessary and harmful, do not have any evidence to support them. There is a lot of contrary evidence from developmental psychologists that most supernatural beliefs have their root origins in basic human intuitions of how we make sense of the world and things around us. Whether we continue to be superstitious and/or follow our intuitions -- or choose to find our truth through a process of rationalization, depends alot on our personality and other factors like education and who we have chosen as role models in life. It would be better if all fundamentalists (religious or naturalist) did not assume that everyone should think like they do and value the same things in life.

If the "new atheism" as you call it is premised on the belief that supernatural beliefs are harmful, why would you expect them to adopt a live-and-let-live approach to religion? It seems to me you want your atheists to be seen and not heard.