Ottawa to Close 4 Embassies in Africa

[nicky10013]

So disprove it.

1. THe Liberals support the Conservatives because the NDP doesn't. In the end, no one wants an election every 2 months which is why when the Liberals last year said they were pulling the plug, the NDP folded and said they'd be willing to keep parliament alive. - hypocrite

2. Green Shift - Lie

3. I don't recall anyone in the Liberal Party claiming to be a crusader of peace - lie

4. In terms of tax cuts, the Liberals have pledged to freeze corporate tax cuts, a policy which the NDP stole - lie, hypocrite

5. Ignatieff fought tooth and nail to see those documents and fight the hand over of prisoners to torture - lie

6. I don't recall anyone in the Liberal Party saying the NDP hated Harper less than the LPC.

[Alta4ever]

1. THe Liberals support the Conservatives because the NDP doesn't. In the end, no one wants an election every 2 months which is why when the Liberals last year said they were pulling the plug, the NDP folded and said they'd be willing to keep parliament alive. - hypocrite

2. Green Shift - Lie

3. I don't recall anyone in the Liberal Party claiming to be a crusader of peace - lie

4. In terms of tax cuts, the Liberals have pledged to freeze corporate tax cuts, a policy which the NDP stole - lie, hypocrite

5. Ignatieff fought tooth and nail to see those documents and fight the hand over of prisoners to torture - lie

6. I don't recall anyone in the Liberal Party saying the NDP hated Harper less than the LPC.

Who are you? As I said prove it back up your points with quotable proof.

[nicky10013]

Who are you? As I said prove it back up your points with quotable proof.

I suggest you talk to the original author of the article for that. None of those arguments are mine.

[Alta4ever]

I suggest you talk to the original author of the article for that. None of those arguments are mine.

Why should I, you stated what he said was untrue, you disprove him, otherwise it must be fact.

[nicky10013]

Why should I, you stated what he said was untrue, you disprove him, otherwise it must be fact.

So disprove it.

1. THe Liberals support the Conservatives because the NDP doesn't. In the end, no one wants an election every 2 months which is why when the Liberals last year said they were pulling the plug, the NDP folded and said they'd be willing to keep parliament alive. - hypocrite

http://www.calgaryherald.com/business/Harper+could+support+with+latest+extension/1991817/story.html

2. Green Shift - Lie

http://www.cbc.ca/newsatsixns/pdf/liberalgreenplan.pdf

3. I don't recall anyone in the Liberal Party claiming to be a crusader of peace - lie

http://www.google.ca/#hl=en&source=hp&biw=1600&bih=708&q=Liberal+Party+of+Canada+fighting+for+peace&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&fp=943025995abffc6e

No google hits saying the Liberals are the only hope for peace

4. In terms of tax cuts, the Liberals have pledged to freeze corporate tax cuts, a policy which the NDP stole - lie, hypocrite

http://www.cbc.ca/politics/story/2010/03/28/ignatieff-promises.html

5. Ignatieff fought tooth and nail to see those documents and fight the hand over of prisoners to torture - lie

http://www.cbc.ca/politics/story/2010/03/04/politics-question-period-detainees-prorogation.html

6. I don't recall anyone in the Liberal Party saying the NDP hated Harper less than the LPC.

http://www.google.ca/#hl=en&safe=off&biw=1600&bih=708&q=Liberals+claim+NDP+love+Harper&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&fp=5fa1073dc5af95fd

Whoops, no hits on that either.

[William Ashley]

I still think consulates should be outsourced with a franchising fee to any willing Canadian citizen provided they provide vital consular support services to Canadians for free.

However my structure is a little different overall in regard to visas.

Edited November 10, 2010 by William Ashley

[M.Dancer]

I still think consulates should be outsourced with a franchising fee to any willing Canadian citizen provided they provide vital consular support services to Canadians for free.

However my structure is a little different overall in regard to visas.

Actually, many countries already do that. I knew a fellow whose daughter was in my child's JK. He was the consular official for some latin american country...and was a Canadian born and bred.

Pays well I hear

[Topaz]

The only thing I believe to be true is the last time Harper was THINKING closing Embassies, HE DID!

[nicky10013]

Actually, many countries already do that. I knew a fellow whose daughter was in my child's JK. He was the consular official for some latin american country...and was a Canadian born and bred.

Pays well I hear

Depends on what a "consular official" is defined as. All embassies hire locals to do grunt work - IE process passport and visa requests.

[Oleg Bach]

Fund a private office that is staffed by a few tough honourable men - who will do business with the locals..forget the embasy approach - it's about money....not about talking bullshit and sipping wine.

[M.Dancer]

Depends on what a "consular official" is defined as. All embassies hire locals to do grunt work - IE process passport and visa requests.

He was their sole representitive in Toronto, ...and a member of the order of Canada to boot.

[nicky10013]

He was their sole representitive in Toronto, ...and a member of the order of Canada to boot.

What kind of responsibilities did he have?

[PIK]

Why do the liberal insist on keeping the swiss bankers busy hiding our money for all these african dictators. We have been dumping huge amounts of money to africa forever and what has it done, nothing. Time to show them we are not going to be a patsy anymore. You want help ,then prove that you are not going to keep the money. It is called tough love something the libs do not understand, you just can not keep giving when it does nothing to help the people.

Edited November 10, 2010 by PIK

[nicky10013]

Why do the liberal insist on keeping the swiss bankers busy hiding our money for all these african dictators. We have been dumping huge amounts of money to africa forever and what has it done, nothing. Time to show them we are not going to be a patsy anymore. You want help ,then prove that you are not going to keep the money. It is called tough love something the libs do not understand, you just can not keep giving when it does nothing to help the people.

When has "tough love" as you describe it here, ever worked?

Edited November 10, 2010 by nicky10013

[M.Dancer]

What kind of responsibilities did he have?

Specifically I don't know. He was the sole representitive of the countries mission in Toronto. So if I had to guess he was responsible for 100% of their consular activities here which would include visas, assisting the nationals of his client, trade representation and attending the Brazillion Ball.

[punked]

1. THe Liberals support the Conservatives because the NDP doesn't. In the end, no one wants an election every 2 months which is why when the Liberals last year said they were pulling the plug, the NDP folded and said they'd be willing to keep parliament alive. - hypocrite

What a stupid post from a misinformed person. Remember a year ago the Liberals said "we need more money from unemployed workers or we will go to an election" the conservatives said "try us" and the Liberals said "BLUE RIBBON PANEL we don't have enough money for an election". I remember because I was impressed with the Liberals pushing the EI issue. Although they didn't even try they were just looking for NDP votes after 2 hour long meetings the Liberals picked up their ball and went home. Letting people fall off the EI rolls everyday as people who paid into EI for 10 to 20 years couldn't even get 16 weeks out of it.

So after the Liberals cried and went home the NDP stepped up and when Harper offered A BILLION DOLLARS for those workers the NDP could not vote against that. The Liberals can say they support EI and then vote against it because the don't stand for anything but the NDP can't. Then the Liberals show their true colors voting not showing up 3 weeks ago to reform EI they promised to reform if elected. You know why they didn't show up to pass the Bloc bill? Because they never actually supported it they just wanted NDP voters. You are uninformed. So please don't give me that crap because the NDP got what the Liberals couldn't because they never actually wanted it in the first place. The events don't support your talking point and you play fast and lose with the facts.

Edited November 13, 2010 by punked

[dre]

Harper Conservatives: Putting the N in CUTS!

[Evening Star]

Pssssssssssst. Just so you know....there aren't too many fans of Bob Rae within the Liberal Party.

Isn't he Foreign Affairs critic??

[Jack Weber]

Back to the original topic...

I can tell people from personal,albeit anecdotal,experience...The void created by leaving Africa behind by Western countries will be filled by the crypto-Fascist Chinese...

We do this at our future peril...

[Bob]

I'd like to read some strong and detailed argument in support of maintaining the operations of embassies in obscure African countries before I judge these closings as a bad idea. What exactly is it that justifies the maintenance, politically or economically, of embassies in Cameroon, Zambia, and Tunisia? The only reason I can think of, and I admit I am largely ignorant of African issues as they pertain to Canadian interests, is to provide jobs to Canadians who speak the languages of these countries. Seems like a make-work project worth closing, to me. Feel free to convince us otherwise, though, and preferably with stronger arguments than ambiguous references to "resources".

[bush_cheney2004]

...The only reason I can think of, and I admit I am largely ignorant of African issues as they pertain to Canadian interests, is to provide jobs to Canadians who speak the languages of these countries. Seems like a make-work project worth closing, to me. Feel free to convince us otherwise, though, and preferably with stronger arguments than ambiguous references to "resources".

OK...here is a more direct "resources" reason: Canadian mining operations in Africa.

http://www.pambazuka.org/en/category/features/52095

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/g8-g20/africa/canada-a-quiet-powerhouse-in-africas-mining-sector/article1562696/

Edited November 14, 2010 by bush_cheney2004

[Saipan]

Back to the original topic...

I can tell people from personal,albeit anecdotal,experience...The void created by leaving Africa behind by Western countries will be filled by the crypto-Fascist Chinese...

We do this at our future peril...

Yes, we should open Embassy in Lhasa, Tibet. Phuck the Chinese.

Edited November 14, 2010 by Saipan

[William Ashley]

I'd like to read some strong and detailed argument in support of maintaining the operations of embassies in obscure African countries before I judge these closings as a bad idea. What exactly is it that justifies the maintenance, politically or economically, of embassies in Cameroon, Zambia, and Tunisia? The only reason I can think of, and I admit I am largely ignorant of African issues as they pertain to Canadian interests, is to provide jobs to Canadians who speak the languages of these countries. Seems like a make-work project worth closing, to me. Feel free to convince us otherwise, though, and preferably with stronger arguments than ambiguous references to "resources".

My own ideas for consulates aside, the benifit is building working relationships with the government, as well as the potential to reduce costs of moving people to the country on an individual basis on an as needed basis.

Example. 10 people on a mission to discus trade might cost $50,000, while operating 10 people in that area for the same time period might only cost $20,000. The main benefit is a greater assurance of actuality. That is you can confirm who you are communicating with. Due to an ongoing situational verification.

Here are some of the Tunisia comments

http://www.canadainternational.gc.ca/tunisia-tunisie/offices-bureaux/ambassador_msg_ambassadeur.aspx?lang=eng

You might like to look at the ambassadors that are planned to be withdrawn rather than the countries themselves.

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=18&ved=0CEwQFjAHOAo&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.investirentunisie.info%2Findex.php%3Foption%3Dcom_content%26view%3Darticle%26id%3D3977%3Ale-canada-soutient-les-africains-a-partir-de-la-tunisie%26catid%3D37%26Itemid%3D174&rct=j&q=Ariel%20Delouya%20biography&ei=JdLfTNrzFYWlngfKsdSKDw&usg=AFQjCNEY9O1jtSk3BW2vcEKpHO53_rEO4A&sig2=VNAtE22c5raXU8z-2ViONg&cad=rja

Tunisia has a 50 year history for example.

I'm all for regionalization of ambassadors based on supraorganizational frame works, but one where consulates operate where providing an overall net economic benefit to Canada - while having the rest able to be franchised to people who purchase the right (or where it is possible on a self sufficiency basis by that person or persons undertaking the mission)- as well as undergo a basic training program, and provide certain services to Canadians for free.

A mission is also a potential sanctuary and has certain legal benefits as well as confers certain legal benefits on Canadians involved with a diplomatic mission - that may enable them to be more empowered to achieve a given missions objective.

Although one must realize Canada's two ought be strongest allies the UK and America - as well as the commonwealth - serve as seconds in the absence of diplomatic or consular support services in a particular area, on a working agreement basis. There is also the potential to work with another country on mission sharing also.. although this may add legal complexities.

Edited November 14, 2010 by William Ashley

[Saipan]

My own ideas for consulates aside, the benifit is building working relationships with the government

Building working relationships with African government is always sending them more of our tax dollars. They in turn send us "gimi sam moe".

[Bob]

OK...here is a more direct "resources" reason: Canadian mining operations in Africa.

http://www.pambazuka.org/en/category/features/52095

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/g8-g20/africa/canada-a-quiet-powerhouse-in-africas-mining-sector/article1562696/

Thanks for the links. After looking over them, I still feel that this line of argumentation in support of continual maintenance of Canadian embassies abroad is very broad and unspecific. The three African countries mentioned in the OP are Tunisia, Cameroon, and Zambia. The first link you provided does, however, mention that 10% of Canada's foreign business in Africa takes place in Zambia. That seems interesting. How exactly that connects to the maintenance of one (or more?) Canadian embassies, though, I am unsure. Your second link also doesn't make any mention of those three African countries.

I'm quite sure that the expenditures on embassies in Africa aren't much in the big scheme of things, and I bet the proposals to close some of these embassies are are least partly motivated by the belief of the Harper government that the eliminations these types of expenditures are easy to sell to the Canadian public. I am quite sure there are much more significant savings to be had in other spheres of public spending, although with much more controversy and much greater headaches (i.e. union resistance). Still, I'm just not confident (I admit I am highly ignorant of these matters) that closing a few African embassies in obscure African countries is a big deal.