Any UFC/MMA fans?

[Jack Weber]

Picked last for the pee-wee soccer team too eh Shady? Maybe it was because you were 18 at the time?

I hate soccer but THAT'S FUNNY!!!!

[Shady]

Picked last for the pee-wee soccer team too eh Shady? Maybe it was because you were 18 at the time?

Nope, I never played soccer. It goes against traditional Canadian values. It's completely gutless to be falling all over the place, pretending to be hurt. There's more diving there than in the summer Olympics!

[Jack Weber]

Nope, I never played soccer. It goes against traditional Canadian values. It's completely gutless to be falling all over the place, pretending to be hurt. There's more diving there than in the summer Olympics!

I'm afraid...

That's a huge TOUCHÉ !!!!

[Shwa]

Nope, I never played soccer. It goes against traditional Canadian values. It's completely gutless to be falling all over the place, pretending to be hurt. There's more diving there than in the summer Olympics!

Well, I have to agree with that. Why WWF never had any appeal for me.

[kimmy]

Yep, there is. Hitting a man when he is down is gutless and cowardly. Unless you would like to change that cultural tradition which would be difficult since you seem to be unaware of most Canadian tradition.

You can keep saying how "real Canadian men" act in a fight, but you're quite simply wrong. End of story.

There's nothing unmanly about making sure an opponent no longer poses a threat to you before you let up on him. Real Canadian men don't keep giving hostile opponents more chances to harm them. Only a moron would. Whether you wish to self-identify there is of no concern to me.

And there's nothing cowardly about attempting to hit an MMA fighter on the ground... it's an incredibly dangerous thing to do. Some of the best fighters in the world have been beaten while attempting it.

Nope, football, hockey and lacrosse. Like I said, real Canadian sports.

Coaching the pee-wee lacrosse team doesn't make you an authority on fighting either.

When you keep whiffing like that, you might want to re-evaluate your instructor's effectiveness. Or your ability to follow simple directions. Or both.

Phantom bubbas is pure kimmy. "oh no you didn't" snap-snap-snap

Ooo, some anonymous chickie on the Internet is calling out my screen name.

Oh, the bravery!

Me whiffling? I've been on point the whole thread. You're the one whiffling. You've utterly floundered in your attempts to bring any sort of reasoned argument here, and are left with nothing except your fiction about how "real Canadian men" fight, and howling "gutless and cowardly" over and over and over. And to try to distract from how badly you're floundering, you're trying to taunt me with "chickie" and "you probably hit like a girl" and "phantom bubbas" and "oh the bravery". It's the last resort of a beaten man.

There are exceptions to every rule.

Yeah, you think it's acceptable to hit a guy who's down if you're "educating him".

I think it's acceptable to hit a guy whose down if he's intent on harming you as soon as he gets back up. Most real Canadian men agree with me.

But I did notice how you conveniently side-stepped the issue of sucker punches in MMA. Oh wait, that isn't a Canadian cultural tradition either.

There are no sucker punches in MMA. Sorry.

But if hockey players are evidence of the "real Canadian men" code of contact, then sucker-punches are as Canadian as beaver-tails on the Rideau. How many sucker punches did Real Canadian Man Tie Domi deliver in his illustrious career?

Real Canadian men love nothing better than to see a guy take a blind-side hit in the head. Real Canadian men know that a blindside hit to the head is good clean hockey, as long as the elbow stays down. Real Canadian men know that you never let up on your opponent.

Real Canadian men know that if a guy gets laid out, it's his own fault for not keeping his head up.

Nothing gutless or cowardly about ending a kid's career with a blindside hit to the head... as long as your elbow stays down. It's a clean hit! It's just the rules! That's how real Canadian men play the game! How manly. How courageous.

To say nothing about how real Canadian men conduct themselves in scrums in hockey. To say nothing of real Canadian men like Tie Domi or Steve Downie who've made careers of cheap-shots and sneak attacks.

Anybody who watches a few NHL games is going to be left with a rather different idea of the "real Canadian man" code of honor than the fiction you've been talking about.

-k

[Shwa]

You can keep saying how "real Canadian men" act in a fight, but you're quite simply wrong. End of story.

Hitting a man while he is down is gutless and cowardly, every man knows this. Whether some men do it or not doesn't make the act "right" nor does it exonerate those that do it from being gutless and cowardly. All you are advocating for permission to to jump someone after they are down and keep beating on them. Until when? Until they are unconcious? Their skull is fractured after slamming their head into the pavement a few times? Shameful.

There's nothing unmanly about making sure an opponent no longer poses a threat to you before you let up on him. Real Canadian men don't keep giving hostile opponents more chances to harm them. Only a moron would. Whether you wish to self-identify there is of no concern to me.

Right. So let up on him when? All you have done here is given permission to slam someone's head into the pavement or beat them into a pulp. "Oh, your honour, I killed him because he still posed a threat." Nice.

And there's nothing cowardly about attempting to hit an MMA fighter on the ground... it's an incredibly dangerous thing to do. Some of the best fighters in the world have been beaten while attempting it.

Hitting a man while he is down is gutless and cowardly, MMA or not.

Coaching the pee-wee lacrosse team doesn't make you an authority on fighting either.

Right. Pee wee lacrosse. Nice try, another feeble whiff. Is that all you got? At least you'll never have to worry about knocking anyone down with shots like that.

Me whiffling? I've been on point the whole thread. You're the one whiffling. You've utterly floundered in your attempts to bring any sort of reasoned argument here, and are left with nothing except your fiction about how "real Canadian men" fight, and howling "gutless and cowardly" over and over and over. And to try to distract from how badly you're floundering, you're trying to taunt me with "chickie" and "you probably hit like a girl" and "phantom bubbas" and "oh the bravery". It's the last resort of a beaten man.

What's that I hear? Right, the sound of another infamous kimmy swing and miss. Whoosh.

Yeah, you think it's acceptable to hit a guy who's down if you're "educating him".

Really? Where did I say it is "acceptable?"

I think it's acceptable to hit a guy whose down if he's intent on harming you as soon as he gets back up. Most real Canadian men agree with me.

So you are saying it is acceptable to kick a guy in the head while he is lying on the pavement do you? Thought so.

There are no sucker punches in MMA. Sorry.

But if hockey players are evidence of the "real Canadian men" code of contact, then sucker-punches are as Canadian as beaver-tails on the Rideau. How many sucker punches did Real Canadian Man Tie Domi deliver in his illustrious career?

Whiff. You don't think Domi has been called gutless before? Heck, that is likely one of the reasons he got into quite a few scraps in the first place. I mean, seriously, do you know anything about sports?

Real Canadian men love nothing better than to see a guy take a blind-side hit in the head. Real Canadian men know that a blindside hit to the head is good clean hockey, as long as the elbow stays down. Real Canadian men know that you never let up on your opponent.

Real Canadian men know that if a guy gets laid out, it's his own fault for not keeping his head up.

Oh well, at least they are not hitting a guy when he is down, which would be gutless and cowardly.

Nothing gutless or cowardly about ending a kid's career with a blindside hit to the head... as long as your elbow stays down. It's a clean hit! It's just the rules! That's how real Canadian men play the game! How manly. How courageous.

To say nothing about how real Canadian men conduct themselves in scrums in hockey. To say nothing of real Canadian men like Tie Domi or Steve Downie who've made careers of cheap-shots and sneak attacks.

Anybody who watches a few NHL games is going to be left with a rather different idea of the "real Canadian man" code of honor than the fiction you've been talking about.

Now you are just being hysterical. Hysterically funny that is...

[Jack Weber]

All fight fans of any stripe should take note...

This weekend is the 35th anniversary of the "Thrilla in Manilla"!!!

Those two men left part of thier lives in the ring that night!

[Jack Weber]

Continued...

[Jack Weber]

And finally...

[dre]

Nice fights Jack!.

Heres an MMA fight worth watching. Check it out.

http://www.mmaroot.com/stephan-bonnar-vs-forrest-griffin-ufc-video/

[kimmy]

Oh well, at least they are not hitting a guy when he is down, which would be gutless and cowardly.

That you think blindside hits to the head in hockey are fine but are in high dudgeon about fighting on the ground says all that need be said. You have a truly messed up moral compass, my friend.

Members of Canadian police forces don't give their opponents a standing 8-count in a fight. They'll put their opponent on the ground, and will strike him if necessary to gain compliance.

Members of the Canadian armed forces will strike (and worse) at a grounded opponent.

And as you've already agreed, the Real Canadian Men of Ice Hockey will keep pummeling at a downed opponent until the referee stops them.

So these claims about how "real Canadian men" fight are just fiction.

-k

[Shwa]

That you think blindside hits to the head in hockey are fine but are in high dudgeon about fighting on the ground says all that need be said. You have a truly messed up moral compass, my friend.

Right. As if you are qualified to comment on another's "moral compass."

Members of Canadian police forces don't give their opponents a standing 8-count in a fight. They'll put their opponent on the ground, and will strike him if necessary to gain compliance.

The police have the legal right to shoot someone. So, irrelevant.

Members of the Canadian armed forces will strike (and worse) at a grounded opponent.

In a combat zone, the CF have a legal right to shoot someone. So, irrelvant. In a bar fight, most CF members will duke it out like men and not hammer someone while they are down. Most of them are not gutless and cowardly.

And as you've already agreed, the Real Canadian Men of Ice Hockey will keep pummeling at a downed opponent until the referee stops them.

Doesn't exonerate them from being gutless and cowardly, as every real Canadian man knows.

So these claims about how "real Canadian men" fight are just fiction.

-k

[dre]

Right. As if you are qualified to comment on another's "moral compass."

The police have the legal right to shoot someone. So, irrelevant.

In a combat zone, the CF have a legal right to shoot someone. So, irrelvant. In a bar fight, most CF members will duke it out like men and not hammer someone while they are down. Most of them are not gutless and cowardly.

Doesn't exonerate them from being gutless and cowardly, as every real Canadian man knows.

So these claims about how "real Canadian men" fight are just fiction.

-k

Right. As if you are qualified to comment on another's "moral compass."

Youre the only one thats been doing that. Fallaciously claiming the moral highground, and pretending to speak for "Canadian Men" or "Canadian Tradition" when you just flat out DONT.

In a combat zone, the CF have a legal right to shoot someone. So, irrelvant. In a bar fight, most CF members will duke it out like men and not hammer someone while they are down. Most of them are not gutless and cowardly.

Again. Laughable.

[Shwa]

Youre the only one thats been doing that. Fallaciously claiming the moral highground, and pretending to speak for "Canadian Men" or "Canadian Tradition" when you just flat out DONT.

Again. Laughable.

But all you can counter with is flat-out denial and insult. AS IF my opinion about MMA affects you directly in a personal way and you have this incessant need to be defensive about some configuration of complicity you have formed about yourself.

It's actually fascinating from my perspective, it really is.

[Shady]

But all you can counter with is flat-out denial and insult. AS IF my opinion about MMA affects you directly in a personal way and you have this incessant need to be defensive about some configuration of complicity you have formed about yourself.

It's actually fascinating from my perspective, it really is.

I still don't understand why you're so upset about people liking MMA. Fine, you don't like it, you made your opinion known, but why do you keep posting and posting in this thread? It's like you're obsessed with it. Just accept that there's many fans of MMA, and we might like to post in this thread about the lastest goings on.

Besides, shouldn't you be off coaching your soccer team? Those players aren't gonna learn to dive on their own!!

Edited October 5, 2010 by Shady

[Shwa]

I still don't understand why you're so upset about people liking MMA. Fine, you don't like it, you made your opinion known, but why do you keep posting and posting in this thread? It's like you're obsessed with it. Just accept that there's many fans of MMA, and we might like to post in this thread about the lastest goings on.

I am not upset about people liking MMA, and I never said that.

Besides, shouldn't you be off coaching your soccer team? Those players aren't gonna learn to dive on their own!!

Well frankly Shady, if I were to coach a soccer team - even a pee wee soccer team - you can be guaranteed that they would learn that hitting a man while he is down is gutless and unmanly.

[kimmy]

The police have the legal right to shoot someone. So, irrelevant.

You wanted to talk about "gutless and cowardly", so what's legal for them to do is irrelevant. If it's gutless and cowardly, it's gutless and cowardly regardless of whether they're authorized to use force

In a combat zone, the CF have a legal right to shoot someone. So, irrelvant. In a bar fight, most CF members will duke it out like men and not hammer someone while they are down. Most of them are not gutless and cowardly.

Ditto, and the claim as to how they'd act in a bar fight is pure unjustifiable speculation.

Your notion that a bar fight goes according to Marquess of Queensbury Rules is pretty funny. But at least bar fights tend to get broken up before anybody gets hurt too badly. It's the fight on the street after closing where you've got to be extra careful, and avoid it if at all possible.

If you've got an opponent that you can afford to let stand up and continue fighting, you have an opponent that you don't actually need to be fighting in the first place.

If you've got an opponent you need to be fighting, you can't afford to give him more chances to hurt you. Members of police forces and Canadian Forces understand this, and it's why they're trained to do what they do. The time to be magnanimous is *after* your opponent no longer wishes to fight. If he's had enough after getting knocked down, that's great... but if it takes sitting on his chest and feeding him a few shots to make him decide he's had enough, so be it.

-k

[kimmy]

I've had a hard time reconciling this intense dislike of mixed martial arts with the upholding of hockey as an example of Real Canadian Manly-Man Values.

I saw a few minutes of the Leafs-Senators game last night. I saw 3 fights, of which two ended with a guy on the ice getting punched in the head. Not exactly recent, either... Dave Brown was doing "ground'n'pound" long before Randy Couture.

We already discussed blindside hits to the head. Ask people what hockey player most embodied the Canadian warrior mentality, and chances are pretty good that Scott Stevens will get mentioned. What's he most famous for? Knocking people out while they're looking the other way.

Thursday's Oilers-Flames game had an MMA-quality knock-out...

Ivanans had been running around and had already injured two Oilers in the third period, so he definitely had this coming.

Real Canadian Man Bob McKenzie weighed in on the fight. He knows why the fight happened, but he doesn't know what the point of Ivanans being out there in the first place was. Was he supposed to be "sending a message"? As McKenzie puts it, "If the Flames really want to send a message, they should try scoring a goal."

MacIntyre has a job because the Oilers know that somebody like Ivanans will be out there trying to rough up guys like Eberle and Hall. Ivanans has a job because his coach puts him on the ice to "send a message" by roughing up smaller, weaker players. How Canadian is that? "We're embarrassed to be losing this badly. Go hit that kid."

McKenzie, who is as Canadian and as big as a hockey fan as there is, and is one of the most respected hockey commentators in the country, tried to explain how he can be a UFC fan while also being opposed to increasing goonery in hockey:

I'm not proud of the incongruities of someone who rails against shots to the head -- that would be me -- being a fan of mixed martial arts (MMA) and the UFC, but I am. Go figure. Some things in life just can't be explained.

Now, I can make a case there's a lot more to the MMA and UFC than punching someone's lights out. I mean, Georges St. Pierre is a marvelous athlete who uses as much, if not more, brain/strategy/technique as muscle/brawn. But who's kidding who? It's still, in its most base form, two guys trying to kick the crap out of each other and prepared to do serious physical harm to one another.

So I don't try to make myself any better or worse than the many hockey fans, especially in Edmonton, who took great pleasure in seeing MacIntyre first bloody, then knock out Ivanans. But the one distinction I will make is this: In the UFC, the point of the fight is the fight. That is the essence of it. It's the whole gladiator thing, which is probably as old as humanity.

-k

Edited October 10, 2010 by kimmy

[Jack Weber]

Hagler vs Hearns...

[Shwa]

You wanted to talk about "gutless and cowardly", so what's legal for them to do is irrelevant. If it's gutless and cowardly, it's gutless and cowardly regardless of whether they're authorized to use force

OK, so now you are comparing the CF & police with MMA. Riiiight.

Ditto, and the claim as to how they'd act in a bar fight is pure unjustifiable speculation.

Not really, if those CF members have been taught our Canadian values.

Your notion that a bar fight goes according to Marquess of Queensbury Rules is pretty funny. But at least bar fights tend to get broken up before anybody gets hurt too badly. It's the fight on the street after closing where you've got to be extra careful, and avoid it if at all possible.

Marquess of Queensbury Rules. Nope you said that, I have no "notion" of that at all.

If you've got an opponent that you can afford to let stand up and continue fighting, you have an opponent that you don't actually need to be fighting in the first place.

Ifyousayso.

If you've got an opponent you need to be fighting, you can't afford to give him more chances to hurt you. Members of police forces and Canadian Forces understand this, and it's why they're trained to do what they do. The time to be magnanimous is *after* your opponent no longer wishes to fight. If he's had enough after getting knocked down, that's great... but if it takes sitting on his chest and feeding him a few shots to make him decide he's had enough, so be it.

Better yet, use a baseball bat, a crowbar, knife or gun. Or brass knuckles which tend to end fights fairly quickly.

[Shwa]

I've had a hard time reconciling this intense dislike of mixed martial arts with the upholding of hockey as an example of Real Canadian Manly-Man Values.

The only person in this thread upholding hockey as an example of "Real Canadian Manly-Man Values" is you. No one else.

I saw a few minutes of the Leafs-Senators game last night. I saw 3 fights, of which two ended with a guy on the ice getting punched in the head. Not exactly recent, either... Dave Brown was doing "ground'n'pound" long before Randy Couture.

Gutless.

We already discussed blindside hits to the head. Ask people what hockey player most embodied the Canadian warrior mentality, and chances are pretty good that Scott Stevens will get mentioned. What's he most famous for? Knocking people out while they're looking the other way.

It's a contact sport, keep your head up. Or better yet, watch some football and see how many players get paid out in a game for not paying attention - when they are on their feet.

Thursday's Oilers-Flames game had an MMA-quality knock-out...

Ivanans had been running around and had already injured two Oilers in the third period, so he definitely had this coming.

Real Canadian Man Bob McKenzie weighed in on the fight. He knows why the fight happened, but he doesn't know what the point of Ivanans being out there in the first place was. Was he supposed to be "sending a message"? As McKenzie puts it, "If the Flames really want to send a message, they should try scoring a goal."

MacIntyre has a job because the Oilers know that somebody like Ivanans will be out there trying to rough up guys like Eberle and Hall. Ivanans has a job because his coach puts him on the ice to "send a message" by roughing up smaller, weaker players. How Canadian is that? "We're embarrassed to be losing this badly. Go hit that kid."

Another typical kimmy strawman. Assign "notions" to people and then argue against those notions. Hockey is a contact sport, keep your head up, even the "smaller, weaker players."

McKenzie, who is as Canadian and as big as a hockey fan as there is, and is one of the most respected hockey commentators in the country, tried to explain how he can be a UFC fan while also being opposed to increasing goonery in hockey:

Don Cherry has no problem with the odd scrap now and then.

[Shady]

Better yet, use a baseball bat, a crowbar, knife or gun. Or brass knuckles which tend to end fights fairly quickly.

Baseball bats, knifes and guns have about as much to do with martial arts as they do with boxing. Are you seriously that retarded? Your argument continues to resemble that of a 6th grade level. Like I said before, it's ok if you don't like MMA. Many older and outdated fossils also have that opinion. I just don't understand you're complete obsession with posting in a thread specifically created for people who like MMA, to discuss the latest goings on. It's pretty bizarre.

Not everyone likes the same sports, or music, or food, etc. It's not a bad thing.

[Jack Weber]

Baseball bats, knifes and guns have about as much to do with martial arts as they do with boxing. Are you seriously that retarded? Your argument continues to resemble that of a 6th grade level. Like I said before, it's ok if you don't like MMA. Many older and outdated fossils also have that opinion. I just don't understand you're complete obsession with posting in a thread specifically created for people who like MMA, to discuss the latest goings on. It's pretty bizarre.

Not everyone likes the same sports, or music, or food, etc. It's not a bad thing.

Actually,that's completely untrue as it relates to Eastern martial arts...

My stepson takes Karate and his training includes weapons training...

But to the original argument,I don't think boxing and MMA have much to do with each other so comparisons make no sense...I don't think someone who used solely boxing in an MMA bout would survive very long,just as I don't htink that an MMA fighter would survive very long in a pure boxing match...We've seen how this works out with folks like James Toney,We've not seen an MMA fighter lace uo p the gloves and step into the ring,however.The main reason,I think,would be that the results would be quite similar and equaly punishing.I mean seriously consider one of these slow punching MMA fighters,of equal size, getting into the ring with Andre Durell???...Or Edison Miranda???...Or Arthur Abraham???...Or Yoryorkis Gamboa???...Or Miguel Cotto???...Or Manny Pacquiao???

[dre]

Actually,that's completely untrue as it relates to Eastern martial arts...

My stepson takes Karate and his training includes weapons training...

But to the original argument,I don't think boxing and MMA have much to do with each other so comparisons make no sense...I don't think someone who used solely boxing in an MMA bout would survive very long,just as I don't htink that an MMA fighter would survive very long in a pure boxing match...We've seen how this works out with folks like James Toney,We've not seen an MMA fighter lace uo p the gloves and step into the ring,however.The main reason,I think,would be that the results would be quite similar and equaly punishing.I mean seriously consider one of these slow punching MMA fighters,of equal size, getting into the ring with Andre Durell???...Or Edison Miranda???...Or Arthur Abraham???...Or Yoryorkis Gamboa???...Or Miguel Cotto???...Or Manny Pacquiao???

Theres more of a crossover than you think...

Vitor Belfort, Jans Pulver, Chris Lytle and Marcus Davis are just the first ones that come to mind... Those are MMA fighters with boxing backgrounds, that have fought in professional boxing matches. Those are all boxers who are in MMA now, and theyre all very good and competitive. Marcus Davis is 17-1 in his pro boxing career. I think youll continue to see fighters from Boxing and Kickboxing switch over to MMA and I recently read that Manny Pacquiao is considering it. They need to make sure they take their time and train properly, and if they do my assumption is that guys with backgrounds in standup striking sports such as boxing and kickboxing will continue to do well.

I mean seriously consider one of these slow punching MMA fighters

Its true that the level of striking in boxing isnt the same as it is in boxing or K1... But the "slow punching mma fighters label" is silly and less and less true all the time.

[Jack Weber]

Theres more of a crossover than you think...

Vitor Belfort, Jans Pulver, Chris Lytle and Marcus Davis are just the first ones that come to mind... Those are MMA fighters with boxing backgrounds, that have fought in professional boxing matches. Those are all boxers who are in MMA now, and theyre all very good and competitive. Marcus Davis is 17-1 in his pro boxing career. I think youll continue to see fighters from Boxing and Kickboxing switch over to MMA and I recently read that Manny Pacquiao is considering it. They need to make sure they take their time and train properly, and if they do my assumption is that guys with backgrounds in standup striking sports such as boxing and kickboxing will continue to do well.

Its true that the level of striking in boxing isnt the same as it is in boxing or K1... But the "slow punching mma fighters label" is silly and less and less true all the time.

The crossover is from Boxers who were'nt very good and from weak commissions...Davis is a prime example.The reason is that those boxers probably were'nt ever going to make alot of money in boxing and went the MMA route because they might have had a better chance to make a living.The fact of the matter is that none of the people you mentioned are top 30 guys,let alone top 10 contenders in whatever weight class they might be fighting in.

Pacquiao might have mentioned it...He's also mentioned that he might run for the President of the Phillipines...I highly doubt he would even consider it with a potential bout with Floyd Mayweather happening down the road.I can't imagine Pacquiao risking injury for the pittance he would receive in an MMA bout compared to the multi-million dollar payday he would receive for fighting Mayweather.

And,sorry buddy,but just about every MMA fight I have ever seen has proven to me that punching accuracy,speed,and,proper form are not emphasized.That's probably because it's only a portion of the entire package necessary to win in an MMA bout.Most MMA fighters seem to punch with slow,looping punches and the defensive hand almost invariably drops.Elbows are wide and the feet are almost always too wide and out of position...That might work in MMA...It's a horrible combination for a boxer...

Edited October 11, 2010 by Jack Weber