Any UFC/MMA fans?

[dre]

Only forearms and elbows on someone who is down...

Yeah,that's definately preferable to a Standing 8 Count...

Only forearm elbows... You cant "spike" elbows downward, you have to throw them laterally like a wide punch.

Yeah,that's definately preferable to a Standing 8 Count...

Yes it definately is. That MMA fight just ended. In the boxing match, the beaten opponent is stood back up again, and given a few moments to shake out the cobwebs, then its back to the repetitive pounding to the cranial cavity.

Study after study has found that blows to the head accumulate and cause brain damage and in some cases death. So the very worst thing you can do is stand a fighter who is already gotten his ass kicked, or just gotten his bell rung back up to take more punishment.

There is absolutely no question that boxing is much more dangerous for the fighters than MMA. Go and research it YOURSELF if you dont want to take my word for it.

[dre]

Repeating it 1000 times wont make it true.

No, I know plenty about the sport, enough to see that it contravenes a well establish and culturally traditional Canadian ethic about not hitting a man when he is down.

Not when it comes to a Canadian kickboxer who knows better.

There's no risk of head injury if the guy is defending himself - isn't that how the your arguments have gone so far? Yes, it is dangerous and thus unfair and thus gutless and cowardly.

At least he is standig up and still dangerous.

Riiiiiight.

And yet you have nothing to counter my position but all this damning apologist crap. Which leads me to believe that you too find hitting a man when is down is a titch distasteful too. If you don't believe me, go ask one of your parents.

And yet you have nothing to counter my position but all this damning apologist crap

...and statistics and studies that back up my claims about injuries, that you have done not a single thing to refute besides repeating the same inane platitudes over and over again.

Not ONE bit of empiracal data to back up your position. In fact your only "position" seems to be youre dopey subjective belief that MMA fighters are cowards. You havent introduced even a SHRED of emperical evidence to back up your position.

According to the British Journal of Sports Medicine who studied the medical records of fighters for the Nevada State Athletic commision, 10% of boxing matches involved serious concusions compared to 1.5% of MMA matches. Only 3% of MMA fights end by KO, and 70% of the fights are stopped by the referee to prevent injury to a fighter.

GO AND DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH... You will not find any credible study in the sports medicine world that does not back up what I say on a point by point basis.

That goes for all my assertions... every single one.

1. The much lower rates of head injury and concussions in MMA.

2. Lower rates of death in MMA.

3. The danger of the standing 8 count and boxings long history of brain injury, and pugalistic dementia (aka punch drunkness), and acute subdural hematoma.

The fact that studies have shown that...

MMA definitely appears to cause fewer major injuries such as "Punch Drunk Syndrome", Paralysis, Brain Damage, etc and in addition it also has a lower risk of death than Boxing by a margin of at least 8 times.

The reality is that beating you have taken in this thread, makes BOTH mma, and boxing look extremely safe. If this thread was an MMA fight the ref would have stopped it after page 1, once he saw you were no longer capable of defending yourself

Seriously... Lets see you refute ONE GAWD DAMN THING Iv said and back it up with any kind of real evidence aside from you bleating over and over again "COWARDS!!! COWARDS!!! COWARDS!!!".

Edited September 24, 2010 by dre

[Shwa]

...and statistics and studies that back up my claims about injuries, that you have done not a single thing to refute besides repeating the same inane platitudes over and over again.

blah, blah, blah

Seriously... Lets see you refute ONE GAWD DAMN THING Iv said and back it up with any kind of real evidence aside from you bleating over and over again "COWARDS!!! COWARDS!!! COWARDS!!!".

And you still haven't addressed the fact that in this culture hitting a man when he is down is cowardly and gutless and the only thing you can cite is that it isn't against the rules of MMA. No sh*t Sherlock. You want evidence? Go ask your mother.

[Shwa]

Nope. You're completely wrong again. And the only way to hit a fighter who is down in MMA is to also be down.

Now you are catching on. And being on top of a guy and wailing away at his head: gutless, unmanly, cowardly.

[dre]

And you still haven't addressed the fact that in this culture hitting a man when he is down is cowardly and gutless and the only thing you can cite is that it isn't against the rules of MMA. No sh*t Sherlock. You want evidence? Go ask your mother.

hitting a man when he is down is cowardly and gutless

Yeah! Instead of stopping the fight when the downed opponent is hit a few times, they should stand his dazed ass back up, and let him get hit a few HUNDRED more times That would SO COURAGEOUS

Why on earth would you want to stand dominated fighter back up to take more blows, instead of just stopping the fight like they do in MMA? Do you like LIKE head injuries? Do you care that little about the health of fighters?

This bogus subjective "code" that you keep rambling on about is going to get a lot of people hurt. Luckily your position is so easily countered with emperical evidence now that MMA has been around for a couple of decades and lots of data has been collected.

[Shady]

Now you are catching on. And being on top of a guy and wailing away at his head: gutless, unmanly, cowardly.

Nope, that's how you stop a fight. It's not a boxing match, where you stand in front of the other person and punch away. If a fighter uses his wrestling or jujitsu to take an opponent down. It would be completely retarded to let them stand back up. If a fighter can't intelligently defend themselves while down, the referee stops the fight. For some reason, you can't seem to grasp that concept. Obviously public education has failed you.

[Shady]

Yeah! Instead of stopping the fight when the downed opponent is hit a few times, they should stand his dazed ass back up, and let him get hit a few HUNDRED more times That would SO COURAGEOUS

Excellent point! Apparently stopping a fight right away when a downed opponent can't defend himself is cowardly and outrageous, but standing a fighter back up several times, after being clobbered to the ground, only to get clobbered to the ground again, is courageous and brave.

[Jack Weber]

Only forearm elbows... You cant "spike" elbows downward, you have to throw them laterally like a wide punch.

Yes it definately is. That MMA fight just ended. In the boxing match, the beaten opponent is stood back up again, and given a few moments to shake out the cobwebs, then its back to the repetitive pounding to the cranial cavity.

Study after study has found that blows to the head accumulate and cause brain damage and in some cases death. So the very worst thing you can do is stand a fighter who is already gotten his ass kicked, or just gotten his bell rung back up to take more punishment.

There is absolutely no question that boxing is much more dangerous for the fighters than MMA. Go and research it YOURSELF if you dont want to take my word for it.

I don't need to research it!!

I agree with you that Boxing is probably more dangerous than MMA simply because of the highly restrictive nature of the sport.

Of course,I accept that fact and move on...

Does this make me a knuckle dragging troglodyte?

As far as Standing 8 Counts being dangerous,I ask you to watch the Gatti/Ward fight again(especially Round 9,if I remember correctly).Actually,that might have been a straight knockdown...

Watch the Pacquiao/Marquez fight again...By all rights,that fight should have been stopped,at least by MMA logic,within the first 2 rounds with Marquez down 3 times in the 2nd Round....Marquez came back to essentially draw Pacquiao by giving away 3 rounds in one.A spectacular achievment by anyone's standards!

Stopping a fight because someone "seems" to be hurt is very subjective.Round 10 of the first Bowe/Holyfield fight was a huge round.It looked like Riddick Bowe was going to knock Evander Holyfield out in the first half of the round...Holyfield got caught with a wicked uppercut...In the 2nd half of that round,Holyfield had Bowe in serious trouble...I guess the moral of the story is that one should never underestimate the recouperative(sp) powers of a fighter and not be quick to pull the hook on someone just because they seem to be out on thier feet....

Edited September 24, 2010 by Jack Weber

[Shwa]

This bogus subjective "code" that you keep rambling on about is going to get a lot of people hurt. Luckily your position is so easily countered with emperical evidence now that MMA has been around for a couple of decades and lots of data has been collected.

Hmmmm... so Canadian cultural traditions have been reduced to a "subjective code" now. I suppose it was only a matter of time. They have been around for a couple of centuries and is usually coupled with the shame of beating women. How do you feel about that "subjective code?" Maybe put some women in the cage with the men and, so long as they are under the same objective rules, men can legally beat on them?

[Shwa]

Nope, that's how you stop a fight.

Right. After the gutlessness has been acted upon.

It's not a boxing match, where you stand in front of the other person and punch away.

Right, because boxing is a "punching competition."

If a fighter uses his wrestling or jujitsu to take an opponent down. It would be completely retarded to let them stand back up.

Right, because he might get back up and be on equal footing to resume the fight. Like real men do.

If a fighter can't intelligently defend themselves while down, the referee stops the fight.

Which reminds me of another gutless and cowardly act - that of turtling. Ask any hockey, football or lacrosse player about players who turtle. Shameful and dishonourable. Seems to be a lot of turtling going on in MMA.

For some reason, you can't seem to grasp that concept. Obviously public education has failed you.

For some reason, you can't seem to grasp these concepts. Obviously your parents have failed you.

[dre]

I don't need to research it!!

I agree with you that Boxing is probably more dangerous than MMA simply because of the highly restrictive nature of the sport.

Of course,I accept that fact and move on...

Does this make me a knuckle dragging troglodyte?

As far as Standing 8 Counts being dangerous,I ask you to watch the Gatti/Ward fight again(especially Round 9,if I remember correctly).Actually,that might have been a straight knockdown...

Watch the Pacquiao/Marquez fight again...By all rights,that fight should have been stopped,at least by MMA logic,within the first 2 rounds with Marquez down 3 times in the 2nd Round....Marquez came back to essentially draw Pacquiao by giving away 3 rounds in one.A spectacular achievment by anyone's standards!

Stopping a fight because someone "seems" to be hurt is very subjective.Round 10 of the first Bowe/Holyfield fight was a huge round.It looked like Riddick Bowe was going to knock Evander Holyfield out in the first half of the round...Holyfield got caught with a wicked uppercut...In the 2nd half of that round,Holyfield had Bowe in serious trouble...I guess the moral of the story is that one should never underestimate the recouperative(sp) powers of a fighter and not be quick to pull the hook on someone just because they seem to be out on thier feet....

Does this make me a knuckle dragging troglodyte?

Hell no Jack.

As far as Standing 8 Counts being dangerous,I ask you to watch the Gatti/Ward fight again(especially Round 9,if I remember correctly).Actually,that might have been a straight knockdown...

Watch the Pacquiao/Marquez fight again...By all rights,that fight should have been stopped,at least by MMA logic,within the first 2 rounds with Marquez down 3 times in the 2nd Round....Marquez came back to essentially draw Pacquiao by giving away 3 rounds in one.A spectacular achievment by anyone's standards!

Good points. I understand and agree. Boxings rules make sense for boxing, and a lot of spectacular fights feature a fighter coming back from being in a situation where hes almost beaten.

[dre]

Hmmmm... so Canadian cultural traditions have been reduced to a "subjective code" now. I suppose it was only a matter of time. They have been around for a couple of centuries and is usually coupled with the shame of beating women. How do you feel about that "subjective code?" Maybe put some women in the cage with the men and, so long as they are under the same objective rules, men can legally beat on them?

Hmmmm... so Canadian cultural traditions have been reduced to a "subjective code" now.

No, its your interpretation and representation of cultural traditions that is subjective. The fact is Canadians LOVE mma... every major event gets sold out within a few hours. And the sport isnt incompatible with our culture in any way. Our culture is embracing it.

Maybe put some women in the cage with the men and, so long as they are under the same objective rules, men can legally beat on them?

That argument is about as intelligent as the crap about fighting with weapons. Intellectually dihonest, irrelevant, and pointless. Have you no shame?

Edited September 25, 2010 by dre

[Shwa]

No, its your interpretation and representation of cultural traditions that is subjective. The fact is Canadians LOVE mma... every major event gets sold out within a few hours. And the sport isnt incompatible with our culture in any way. Our culture is embracing it.

I guess it was inevitable wasn't it? Our "subjective" interpretations of Canadian culture traditions are being watered down by "objective" foreign influence complete with rules and a PR machine.

That argument is about as intelligent as the crap about fighting with weapons. Intellectually dihonest, irrelevant, and pointless. Have you no shame?

Naw, it is all based on your subjective interpretation and representation of my argument, nothing more. Thus fair is fair: hitting a man while he is down is gutless, cowardly and unmanly.

[Shady]

Anyone see any of UFC 119 this weekend? If you didn't see the Lytle/Serra fight, it's definitely worth watching. They basically stand up the entire time striking. Matt Serra can sure take a punch!

Video

[dre]

Anyone see any of UFC 119 this weekend? If you didn't see the Lytle/Serra fight, it's definitely worth watching. They basically stand up the entire time striking. Matt Serra can sure take a punch!

Video

Yup. Iv seen every one since about UFC 70. Too bad the main event sucked so bad. Sad way for Myrko to go out. Lytle/Serra WAS good.

Edited September 27, 2010 by dre

[kimmy]

Gee, I go away for a week and this dog-shit is still going on?

Oh gawd no, I was referring to places with rampant crime like Edmonton. The Shwa is way down the list.

I've never had to deal with anything scarier than a knife... so imagine my surprise when I mentioned self-defense and you started talking about all these pistol-packing, drug-dealing gangsters that kids apparently need to protect themselves against.

But that was just sheer retarded hype, just like everything else you've offered in this thread.

You completely failed with a safety argument, looked like a complete fool attempting to sound like you know anything about fighting, grasped for some pitiful slippery-slope hysterics, and have nothing left except repeating

gutless, cowardly and unmanly

over and over. Infantile.

You know what's gutless, cowardly, and unmanly? You are.

And when you start using "defending Canadian cultural traditions" as an argument, and start accusing people who don't agree with you of being immigrants, you're taking a page out of Mr Canada's playbook, and cease to be relevant.

-k

[bloodyminded]

You know what's gutless, cowardly, and unmanly? You are.

That seems a little harsh, doesn't it?

[Shwa]

Gee, I go away for a week and this dog-shit is still going on?

I've never had to deal with anything scarier than a knife... so imagine my surprise when I mentioned self-defense and you started talking about all these pistol-packing, drug-dealing gangsters that kids apparently need to protect themselves against.

But that was just sheer retarded hype, just like everything else you've offered in this thread.

You completely failed with a safety argument, looked like a complete fool attempting to sound like you know anything about fighting, grasped for some pitiful slippery-slope hysterics, and have nothing left except repeating

over and over. Infantile.

You know what's gutless, cowardly, and unmanly? You are.

And when you start using "defending Canadian cultural traditions" as an argument, and start accusing people who don't agree with you of being immigrants, you're taking a page out of Mr Canada's playbook, and cease to be relevant. -k

Meh, your whiffing is of no concern to me. Keep working on the punching bag sweetie, one day you'll get it.

Otherwise, hitting a man while he is down is culturally and traditionally a sign of cowardice and gutlessness. Every red-blooded Canadian man knows this, but you are exempt of course.

[Shady]

Shwa's just a prude.

[Shwa]

Shwa's just a prude.

I just might be that, but a cherished cultural tradition is a cherished cultural tradition and I resent those who think they can just move in and start changing them because it suits their purpose. Not in Canada is what I say. Not now. Not ever.

[Shady]

I just might be that, but a cherished cultural tradition is a cherished cultural tradition and I resent those who think they can just move in and start changing them because it suits their purpose. Not in Canada is what I say. Not now. Not ever.

It has nothing to do with cultural tradition. You're just a close-minded prude. I'm actually suprised you're even using the internets.

Anyways, did anyone else think that Sean Sherk didn't deserve the decision against Evan Dunham? I think Dunham got robbed.

[Shwa]

It has nothing to do with cultural tradition. You're just a close-minded prude. I'm actually suprised you're even using the internets.

It has everything to do with cultural tradition. The fact that you would use the word 'prude' simply confirms that and reveals that you are likely familiar with such a cultural code. Thanks for helping me out. Again.

Edited September 28, 2010 by Shwa

[Shady]

It has everything to do with cultural tradition. The fact that you would use the word 'prude' simply confirms that and reveals that you are likely familiar with such a cultural code. Thanks for helping me out. Again.

Nope. The fact that you need to fall back on some non-existent cultural tradition proves my point entirely. Your mindset is an outdated and prudish one. You just can't seem to comprehend two fighters using all forms of martial arts, and not just standing in front of eachother punching like robots.

Edited September 28, 2010 by Shady

[Shwa]

Nope. The fact that you need to fall back on some non-existent cultural tradition proves my point entirely. Your mindset is an outdated and prudish one. You just can't seem to comprehend two fighters using all forms of martial arts, and not just standing in front of eachother punching like robots.

Nope. If my mindset is "outdated" that is your opinion, but the cherished cultural tradition stands. All you are doing is making excuses for poor behaviour. Again.

[Shady]

Nope. If my mindset is "outdated" that is your opinion, but the cherished cultural tradition stands. All you are doing is making excuses for poor behaviour. Again.

And your reference to non-existent cherished cultural traditions is also your opinion.

Combat sports were first formalized internationally in the ancient Olympics. Canadian martial arts trainer Shah Franco, a former karate world champion, notes that even now, “every single component of MMA is individually part of the Olympics” – striking (boxing, tae kwon do), grappling (wrestling) and clinching/throwing (judo). Mixed martial arts unifies them into one supreme combat sport.

The popularity of mixed martial arts in Canada is no surprise. Canadians are tough. It's part of our identity. Who does the international peacekeeping community want for the most gruelling missions? Canadians are at the top of the list.

Canada is a mecca for mixed martial arts, and we celebrate it unapologetically. We practise and watch martial arts all over the country. There are new gyms opening every week, as parents take their children to classes in MMA, karate, Brazilian jiu jitsu, tae kwon do, judo, aikido, boxing, wrestling and many other martial arts. The Fight Network, born and bred in Canada, is the world's first 24/7 combat sports channel, shown by every major carrier in the country.

Globe & Mail

Looks like you're completely wrong about your so-called Canadian traditional values. Maybe their yours, but not Canada's.