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That looked like me fighting my 8 yearold daughter.

Jesus... what a slaying.

You could tell the downtime and recovery from his third knee surgery really hurt Shogun. He was gassed out 1/2 way into the first round. But Bones is a force. I think he will hold that title for a LONG time.

Which is interesting because the divisions are pretty much all held by guys that are WAY ahead of second best.

Aldo

GSP

Silva

Jones

Velasquez

I dont see ANY of them losing in the near future. Aldo is untouchable IMO (probably the best p4p fighter in the world). GSP and Silva could fight a catch-weight bout... and if Silva won he could fight Jones at 205 (hes fought there before). But GSP cant fight Jones. Best fight for Velasquez is probably Allistair Overeem who might be able to fight in the UFC now they bought strikeforce.

These guys are all phenoms who are a LOT better than anyone else in their divisions.

Jon Jones is a fucking force!

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Yikes. I didn't realize how ridiculous the size advantage was until they were in the ring together.

Jones has a longer reach then Stefan Struve. :blink:

Plus he's fast, plus he's powerful, plus he's a strong wrestler who's going to be almost impossible to take off his feet. Rashad Evans is in for a curb-stomping.

The only hope for anybody else in the LHW division is that as he grows up, he fills out and can't make weight at 205 anymore.

I enjoyed the Jim Miller fight and the Uriah Faber fight.

-k

Edited by kimmy
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Yikes. I didn't realize how ridiculous the size advantage was until they were in the ring together.

Jones has a longer reach then Stefan Struve. :blink:

Plus he's fast, plus he's powerful, plus he's a strong wrestler who's going to be almost impossible to take off his feet. Rashad Evans is in for a curb-stomping.

The only hope for anybody else in the LHW division is that as he grows up, he fills out and can't make weight at 205 anymore.

I enjoyed the Jim Miller fight and the Uriah Faber fight.

-k

Yep, that was quite an ass-kicking. I feel bad for Rashad Evans. He's not gonna have a fun night either. If anyone can find video of the UFC post-fight press conference, please post it. I haven't been able to find it yet.

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Evans is going to die. His last fight against Rampage was a joke. Evans goes for wins on points and waits out the clock, a boring fighter. Will be fun to see him actually have to fight against somebody who will aggressively come at him with everything like Jones will.

I want to see a match between any of GPS/Silva/Jones. Preferably the first two of course.

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I want to see a match between any of GPS/Silva/Jones. Preferably the first two of course.

I'm interested in the result of a GSP/Silva fight, but I'm pretty confident it would be either extremely boring or extremely short.

There are only two ways I see that fight going.. GSP "lay n prays" on Silva for 5 rounds, or Silva knocks GSP's head clear off. Neither is particularly exciting.

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I'm interested in the result of a GSP/Silva fight, but I'm pretty confident it would be either extremely boring or extremely short.

There are only two ways I see that fight going.. GSP "lay n prays" on Silva for 5 rounds, or Silva knocks GSP's head clear off. Neither is particularly exciting.

I think it would be the former. If Chael Sonnen can pin Silva to the mat for 4.5 rounds, imagine what GSP would do. Silva's takedown defense is really sloppy.

Edited by Moonlight Graham
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I think it would be the former. If Chael Sonnen can pin Silva to the mat for 4.5 rounds, imagine what GSP would do. Silva's takedown defense is really sloppy.

Its not so much a lack of takedown defense, but the rules in MMA. A Fighter that sprawls and stops a shot is left in a pretty neutral position, physically able to launch devastating elbows to the neck and back of the head of his opponent but unable to legally do so. The rules are such that there is very little downside to going for a takedown and failing. On the other hand, a fighter that attempts 15 takedowns and only lands 1 is going to win the round in most cases, even if they don't do any substantial damage from the top position.

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The rules are such that there is very little downside to going for a takedown and failing. On the other hand, a fighter that attempts 15 takedowns and only lands 1 is going to win the round in most cases, even if they don't do any substantial damage from the top position.

Well, if the choice is between a fighter doing nothing, and another trying take downs, then yeah, he'll win the round. However, I've seen many fighters attempt take downs and fail, only to be submitted in a guillotine choke. Plus attempting many take downs and failing takes a lot of energy to do. It's a good way to become fatigued.

GSP and Silva would be a good fight. Silva would have an advantage standing up. But I think GSP could ground n pound him pretty good. Much like he did to BJ Penn the last time they fought.

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Its not so much a lack of takedown defense, but the rules in MMA. A Fighter that sprawls and stops a shot is left in a pretty neutral position, physically able to launch devastating elbows to the neck and back of the head of his opponent but unable to legally do so. The rules are such that there is very little downside to going for a takedown and failing. On the other hand, a fighter that attempts 15 takedowns and only lands 1 is going to win the round in most cases, even if they don't do any substantial damage from the top position.

With Silva theres definately a lack of takedown defense, and he doesnt have much of a sprawl. Also I HAVE seen failed takedowns result in punishment... you can take a legal knee to face or you can get choked out.

As for GSP VS Silva thats a tough fight to call. Id give a slight edge to GSP because hes more consistant and hes good at everything. But one mistake and George is out cold.

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Well, if the choice is between a fighter doing nothing, and another trying take downs, then yeah, he'll win the round.

Definitely. But I've seen a good many fights in which one guy stuffs a half dozen take down attempts in the first 3 minutes of a round, and stays busy striking. On the 6th or 7th attempt, the other fighter finally gets him down and holds top position for a couple minutes. Assuming neither fighter does any significant damage to the other during that round, who should get the nod?

The fighter that controlled the fight on the ground for 2 minutes and succeeded in only 1/7th of his takedown attempts almost always wins the round. The guy that controlled the fight for 3 minutes and successfully stuffed 6/7 takedown attempts almost always loses the round.

Thats a problem, in my opinion.

However, I've seen many fighters attempt take downs and fail, only to be submitted in a guillotine choke. Plus attempting many take downs and failing takes a lot of energy to do. It's a good way to become fatigued.

It happens, but failing a takedown is, on balance, pretty safe.

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With Silva theres definately a lack of takedown defense, and he doesnt have much of a sprawl.

Yeah, Silva's takedown defense certainly isn't spectacular.

Also I HAVE seen failed takedowns result in punishment... you can take a legal knee to face or you can get choked out.

It definitely happens. But if you land 3 takedowns (and miss 20) in a fight, you'll probably win. The risk/reward of takedown attempts is out of whack, I think.

As for GSP VS Silva thats a tough fight to call. Id give a slight edge to GSP because hes more consistant and hes good at everything. But one mistake and George is out cold.

GSP's striking isn't anything special, but its passable for sure. If pushed, I'd put my money on GSP in that fight too.

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Yeah, Silva's takedown defense certainly isn't spectacular.

It definitely happens. But if you land 3 takedowns (and miss 20) in a fight, you'll probably win. The risk/reward of takedown attempts is out of whack, I think.

GSP's striking isn't anything special, but its passable for sure. If pushed, I'd put my money on GSP in that fight too.

GSPs striking is fantastic. Hes got the best jab in MMA. Broke Kos's skull with it, and BJ Pens nose. The reason some people think George isnt a good striker is because he doesnt throw huge looping power punches but the only reason he doesnt throw those is because they leave you vunlerable. He never puts more than about 2/3's power into a punch and theyre all straight shots that are hard to block.

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Definitely. But I've seen a good many fights in which one guy stuffs a half dozen take down attempts in the first 3 minutes of a round, and stays busy striking. On the 6th or 7th attempt, the other fighter finally gets him down and holds top position for a couple minutes. Assuming neither fighter does any significant damage to the other during that round, who should get the nod?

The fighter that controlled the fight on the ground for 2 minutes and succeeded in only 1/7th of his takedown attempts almost always wins the round. The guy that controlled the fight for 3 minutes and successfully stuffed 6/7 takedown attempts almost always loses the round.

Thats a problem, in my opinion.

I think the judges are generally too eager to reward a guy for having top-control even if he doesn't actually accomplish anything. It can be a problem. Then again, I think some of the MMA judges are gigantic idiots regardless. How could anybody have thought Leonard Garcia beat Nam Phan, for example? Judging in MMA can be pretty debatable, to say the least.

I'm surprised that you guys are picking GSP over Anderson Silva. I'm as big a GSP fan as anybody, and I'd love it if he did win, but that would be the most epic achievement in fighting since Hercules defeated the Lernean Hydra.

I definitely agree that Georges could get Silva off his feet, because GSP's takedowns are almost unstoppable and Anderson's takedown defense is terrible. But what's he going to do with him once he's on the ground? Being on top of Anderson Silva is as dangerous as standing right in front of him. He has lethal ground skills, and he has a HUGE size advantage over GSP.

Georges probably doesn't get to more than 185 pounds at any time between fights. Anderson cuts a HUGE amount of weight to make weight at 185. Anderson had to cut weight when he fought at 205! Between fights, he gets up to 215 to 220 pounds.

Even if GSP bulks up to fight Silva, Anderson could have as much as a 20 pound weight advantage on fight night! I can't imagine Georges being able to do much with him if he did get him on his back. He'd probably end up in Silva's patented body-triangle and slowly get worn out and finally submitted.

I would love to see GSP beat Silva, though. It would cement him as a legend.

-k

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I think the judges are generally too eager to reward a guy for having top-control even if he doesn't actually accomplish anything. It can be a problem. Then again, I think some of the MMA judges are gigantic idiots regardless. How could anybody have thought Leonard Garcia beat Nam Phan, for example? Judging in MMA can be pretty debatable, to say the least.

Isn't this the same problem that happens with judging in boxing? Credit needs to be given to the fighter who is pressing the action and not going for a stalemate....like some title-holders do who know that a decision will never go against them if the fight is close....I'm thinking Vladimir Klitschko for example. But, in the UFC, the obvious skewing of the sport to favour striking (allowing fingerless gloves, and then making them mandatory), and generally favouring top-control gives the advantage to ground-and-pound thugs, and penalizes the BJJ experts.

But, I think this is what Dana White has wanted ever since he took over the UFC! He's a former boxer, and wanted more blood and knockouts in the fight action. Originally, the Ultimate Fighting Championship concept started out of an argument over which fighting martial art was superior in a real fight. From the start, ground rules had to be created to lessen the risk of permanent injury or death, so obvious lethal strikes to the eyes, throat, or grabbing the groin were banned. And later, they banned head-butts, strikes to the back of the head, the groin etc.. But from what I've seen in recent years, the UFC is more dangerous now than it was in those early years when the wrestlers and BJJ were dominating the sport. After watching the Dan Henderson/Michael Bisping fight where Bisping was obviously out before hitting the ground, with Henderson pouncing on him to get in a couple of extra shots before the ref could stop the fight, I'm thinking it is just a matter of time before someone dies in the cage.

One thing that really is getting me nauseated about UFC and MMA in general, is that a lot of young guys think that this stuff works in a streetfight. Well, for one thing you don't get to go put on your grappling gloves, and if you're stupid enough to get into a fight with a total stranger in an uncontrolled setting, you better be ready to expect head-butts, and shots to the groin, and even the eyes and throat, depending on what the other guy is willing to use in a fight.

I'm surprised that you guys are picking GSP over Anderson Silva. I'm as big a GSP fan as anybody, and I'd love it if he did win, but that would be the most epic achievement in fighting since Hercules defeated the Lernean Hydra.

I definitely agree that Georges could get Silva off his feet, because GSP's takedowns are almost unstoppable and Anderson's takedown defense is terrible. But what's he going to do with him once he's on the ground? Being on top of Anderson Silva is as dangerous as standing right in front of him. He has lethal ground skills, and he has a HUGE size advantage over GSP.

Georges probably doesn't get to more than 185 pounds at any time between fights. Anderson cuts a HUGE amount of weight to make weight at 185. Anderson had to cut weight when he fought at 205! Between fights, he gets up to 215 to 220 pounds.

Even if GSP bulks up to fight Silva, Anderson could have as much as a 20 pound weight advantage on fight night! I can't imagine Georges being able to do much with him if he did get him on his back. He'd probably end up in Silva's patented body-triangle and slowly get worn out and finally submitted.

I would love to see GSP beat Silva, though. It would cement him as a legend.

-k

For all of the reasons you mention, I think a GSP/Silva fight would look something like the GSP/Penn fight a couple of years ago. Penn is a complete fighter, like GSP, but you could see right from the start that the size disadvantage gave him no realistic chance of winning that fight. And, another problem is that both GSP and Silva have reputations for being cautious and playing it safe. They both get alot of jeers for some boring fights where they avoided risks for a safe win.

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The main reason Id give GSP the nod is because hes so smart tactically. Every single round is a chess match. He almost never loses even a single ROUND and hes hard to knock out because he has such a good jab.

Silva is explosive though and he can knock out just about anybody. But Silva lost more rounds in the Sonnen fight than GSP has lost in his entire career.

Its tough to call though.

It also depends where they fight. Theres been talk of Silva coming down to fight GSP at WW, and theres been talk of GSP moving up, or they could meet in the middle for a catch weight.

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But, in the UFC, the obvious skewing of the sport to favour striking (allowing fingerless gloves, and then making them mandatory), and generally favouring top-control gives the advantage to ground-and-pound thugs, and penalizes the BJJ experts.

I would say that rules of the sport generally favour wrestling, not striking. Though I suppose it could be said that its not the rules so much as the way fights are scored that favours wrestling.

But, I think this is what Dana White has wanted ever since he took over the UFC! He's a former boxer, and wanted more blood and knockouts in the fight action.

Part of this is pure economics. Its not uncommon to hear the fans boo-ing a highly technical stand up or ground fight. The majority of people buying PPV's and going to the events don't want to see technical strikers or fighters putting on a BJJ clinic. They want to see brawlers swinging for the fences and wrestlers ground n' pounding someone. On any technical evaluation, the Bonnar-Griffin fight has to be one of the worst fights in the history of the UFC. And yet, it's legendary.

After watching the Dan Henderson/Michael Bisping fight where Bisping was obviously out before hitting the ground, with Henderson pouncing on him to get in a couple of extra shots before the ref could stop the fight, I'm thinking it is just a matter of time before someone dies in the cage.

Yeah that one looked a little bit excessive. We don't know if Henderson realized how badly the punch hurt Bisping, and merely pounced to try to end the fight. But it certainly looked bad.

For all of the reasons you mention, I think a GSP/Silva fight would look something like the GSP/Penn fight a couple of years ago. Penn is a complete fighter, like GSP, but you could see right from the start that the size disadvantage gave him no realistic chance of winning that fight. And, another problem is that both GSP and Silva have reputations for being cautious and playing it safe. They both get alot of jeers for some boring fights where they avoided risks for a safe win.

Size matters, but I think GSP and Penn differ in a very important way. GSP has intense natural athleticism and trains really hard. Penn doesn't hae the same genetic athleticism, nor does he train particularly hard.

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GSPs striking is fantastic. Hes got the best jab in MMA. Broke Kos's skull with it, and BJ Pens nose.

His striking is certainly passable, but Koschek is a pretty one dimensional wrestler, and GSP just physically dominated Penn in every way.

The reason some people think George isnt a good striker is because he doesnt throw huge looping power punches but the only reason he doesnt throw those is because they leave you vunlerable. He never puts more than about 2/3's power into a punch and theyre all straight shots that are hard to block.

I think the threat of GSP's takedowns really hampers his opponents ability to strike effectively and makes GSP's striking look far better than it actually is.

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Part of this is pure economics. Its not uncommon to hear the fans boo-ing a highly technical stand up or ground fight. The majority of people buying PPV's and going to the events don't want to see technical strikers or fighters putting on a BJJ clinic. They want to see brawlers swinging for the fences and wrestlers ground n' pounding someone.

I disagree. MMA audiences have become a lot more sophisticated over the last several years. I've watched several matches where submission attempts, reversals and escapes have been cheered loudly by the crowd. Heck, even fighters that make it back to guard from side control get applause.

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I think the threat of GSP's takedowns really hampers his opponents ability to strike effectively and makes GSP's striking look far better than it actually is.

I also disagree. GSP from a few years ago maybe. But GSP today has very good stand up. He works constantly with the best boxing coach in the world, Freddie Roach.

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I disagree. MMA audiences have become a lot more sophisticated over the last several years. I've watched several matches where submission attempts, reversals and escapes have been cheered loudly by the crowd. Heck, even fighters that make it back to guard from side control get applause.

I'll agree that it has certainly improved, but I still hear the boo's pretty often.

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I also disagree. GSP from a few years ago maybe. But GSP today has very good stand up. He works constantly with the best boxing coach in the world, Freddie Roach.

It is certainly better than it was in the past (knocked out by Matt Serra... ouch). But I maintain that it looks a lot better than it is due to the threat of his wrestling.

Put GSP in a straight striking match vs. the top strikers in his division, and GSP is in for a world of hurt.

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Put GSP in a straight striking match vs. the top strikers in his division, and GSP is in for a world of hurt.

I disagree. I don't think there's anybody in his division that can out strike him. But that's kind of irrelevent. Mix martial arts is about mixed martial arts. Not focusing on one particular thing. Taking away a fighters best weapon, and then claiming he wouldn't be as good is kind of pointless. Because that can be applied to any fighter, and any athlete in any sport.

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I disagree. I don't think there's anybody in his division that can out strike him.

We'll have to agree to disagree, I think.

But that's kind of irrelevent. Mix martial arts is about mixed martial arts. Not focusing on one particular thing. Taking away a fighters best weapon, and then claiming he wouldn't be as good is kind of pointless. Because that can be applied to any fighter, and any athlete in any sport.

Of course. I meant it more as a thought experiment on how much his wrestling makes his striking look better.

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