Any UFC/MMA fans?

[Moonlight Graham]

No! Not even the gamblers; so if you're looking at putting some money on Jake Shields, don't bet any more than you can easily afford to waste. Some of the grappling experts think that Shield's unusual ground game might be a challenge for GSP, but since he has no standup, this might be one fight where GSP decides to use his take-down defense to stay up and hammer away with stiff jabs...similar to the Koscheck fight.

I think it's going to be a hell of a fight. It will be amazing to watch these guys if they get on the ground. Shields is a ridiculously amazing grappler and submission expert, and everyone knows about GSP's ground/wrestling skills. I just watched Shields' last fight, and he was impressive on the ground, but yes no stand-up game whatsoever.

It could be just as you say, GSP stuffing takedowns and trying to box with Shields all night.. I think GSP will win, but I think Shields presents an excellent challenge for GSP because he basically negates his biggest strength.

[kimmy]

The Jake Shields who smacked the crap out of Dan Henderson looked like a monster.

The Jake Shields who squeaked out a highly dubious victory over Martin Kampmann thanks to kind-hearted judges looked like a terribly overrated guy who doesn't deserve the hype.

Some people think that maybe the weight cut was the reason for Shields looking like garbage against Kampmann. Moving back to Welterweight after bulking up to fight Middleweights might have taken a lot out of him.

Regardless... I think he's going to have a terrible time against Georges. If Jake Shields can't get GSP off his feet, it's going to go really badly for him. And I don't think anybody can take GSP off his feet at this point.

-k

[Moonlight Graham]

Some people think that maybe the weight cut was the reason for Shields looking like garbage against Kampmann. Moving back to Welterweight after bulking up to fight Middleweights might have taken a lot out of him.

Ya, Joe Rogan said during the Kampmann fight that Shields looked very drawn and unhealthy at the weigh-in the previous day, obviously trying to cut weight. He definitely ran out of gas in the fight. I hope he shows up in better shape this time.

[Moonlight Graham]

In the last week i've watched 3 fights by Jake Shields, including his last fight with Martin Kampmann and his last WEC fight vs Dan Henderson. Shields is just ridiculously sick on the ground. I've never seen anyone be able to pass from guard and half-guard into side control and mount. His jiu-jitsu is obviously 1st-class, and he can wrestle very well. His 5-round fight vs Henderson showed me he has very good conditioning at 185 lbs, but we'll see if Shields had to cut weight as hard as he did vs Kampmann.

Obviously the huge weakness for Shields is his striking. He's weak with his punches both standing and ground-and-pound, and his leg kicks are also weak with crappy technique. There's no way he'll beat GSP standing up. But all Shields has to do is get a hold of GSP to be very dangerous. GSP has to do a lot more than sprawl and stuff takedowns by Shields, because Shields often shoots and just grabs a leg and either works to takes a guy down that way or uses the leg for get a submission hold.

I like GSP but find myself rooting for Jake as the underdog. GSP has the edge because his speed is superior as is his striking, but if they get a hold of each other it will be fun to watch.

[dre]

In the last week i've watched 3 fights by Jake Shields, including his last fight with Martin Kampmann and his last WEC fight vs Dan Henderson. Shields is just ridiculously sick on the ground. I've never seen anyone be able to pass from guard and half-guard into side control and mount. His jiu-jitsu is obviously 1st-class, and he can wrestle very well. His 5-round fight vs Henderson showed me he has very good conditioning at 185 lbs, but we'll see if Shields had to cut weight as hard as he did vs Kampmann.

Obviously the huge weakness for Shields is his striking. He's weak with his punches both standing and ground-and-pound, and his leg kicks are also weak with crappy technique. There's no way he'll beat GSP standing up. But all Shields has to do is get a hold of GSP to be very dangerous. GSP has to do a lot more than sprawl and stuff takedowns by Shields, because Shields often shoots and just grabs a leg and either works to takes a guy down that way or uses the leg for get a submission hold.

I like GSP but find myself rooting for Jake as the underdog. GSP has the edge because his speed is superior as is his striking, but if they get a hold of each other it will be fun to watch.

11:00 PM 5221

Jose Aldo

-550 - -

5222

Mark Hominick

+350 - -

UFC 129 - Welterweight Championship: Georges "Rush" St. Pierre vs. Jake Shields

11:30 PM 5223

Georges St. Pierre

-500 - -

5224

Jake Shields

+300

Theres the betting lines for the Aldo and GSP fights. Theyre about right IMO. Shields and Hominick are GIGANTIC underdogs. Aldo and GSP are the best fighters on the planet. Aldo is actually BETTER than GSP or Silva P4P. People that havent seen him fight (this is his first UFC bout) are in for a real treat.

Anything can happen though! But a Shields win would be one if the biggest upsets in UFC history.

Aldo stops Hominick in round 1 or 2, and GSP stops shields in round 3 or 4.

[Moonlight Graham]

Theres the betting lines for the Aldo and GSP fights. Theyre about right IMO. Shields and Hominick are GIGANTIC underdogs. Aldo and GSP are the best fighters on the planet. Aldo is actually BETTER than GSP or Silva P4P. People that havent seen him fight (this is his first UFC bout) are in for a real treat.

Anything can happen though! But a Shields win would be one if the biggest upsets in UFC history.

Aldo stops Hominick in round 1 or 2, and GSP stops shields in round 3 or 4.

Also does look very exciting. Yeah, GSP is likely going to whoop Shields, but i think Shields poses the biggest threat to GSP in a while, moreso than Hardy or Koscheck for sure i think. It's a pretty good card tonight.

[kimmy]

Well, the main event was a bit of a dud. Shields didn't threaten GSP at all, and GSP was obviously way better yet didn't bother to put much pressure on Shields. Probably some of it was due to GSP's eye getting poked (or whatever happened...) but GSP just didn't seem like he was interested in finishing the fight.

Hominick vs Aldo, on the other hand, was amazing. After coming perilously close to getting knocked out, and with rather gruesome swelling on his forehead, Hominick didn't just hang in there, he put a beating on Aldo in the final round. If the fight had been just a a couple minutes longer, he might have been able to put him away.

The crowd at my place was off the charts for local kid Rory MacDonald in the preliminaries. Nate Diaz is a seriously tough guy, and Rory didn't just beat him, he beat the shit out of him. Those 3 slams were the craziest thing I've seen in MMA. It was like something out of WWE wrestling!

Randy Couture is retiring, which is good, because he's 47 years old and probably doesn't have much left to do in the Octagon unless James Toney feels like getting smacked around again. I expect that he will continue to be part of UFC in some capacity.

-k

[dre]

Well, the main event was a bit of a dud. Shields didn't threaten GSP at all, and GSP was obviously way better yet didn't bother to put much pressure on Shields. Probably some of it was due to GSP's eye getting poked (or whatever happened...) but GSP just didn't seem like he was interested in finishing the fight.

Hominick vs Aldo, on the other hand, was amazing. After coming perilously close to getting knocked out, and with rather gruesome swelling on his forehead, Hominick didn't just hang in there, he put a beating on Aldo in the final round. If the fight had been just a a couple minutes longer, he might have been able to put him away.

The crowd at my place was off the charts for local kid Rory MacDonald in the preliminaries. Nate Diaz is a seriously tough guy, and Rory didn't just beat him, he beat the shit out of him. Those 3 slams were the craziest thing I've seen in MMA. It was like something out of WWE wrestling!

Randy Couture is retiring, which is good, because he's 47 years old and probably doesn't have much left to do in the Octagon unless James Toney feels like getting smacked around again. I expect that he will continue to be part of UFC in some capacity.

-k

Aldo didnt look like himself in there... he looked tired after only a couple of rounds. Homonick was awsome. I gave him no chance to win at all, but if that fight was a couple minutes longer he would have won. Loved Machidas head-kick to end Coutures career.

[Shakeyhands]

Hominick vs Aldo, on the other hand, was amazing. After coming perilously close to getting knocked out, and with rather gruesome swelling on his forehead, Hominick didn't just hang in there, he put a beating on Aldo in the final round. If the fight had been just a a couple minutes longer, he might have been able to put him away. -k

Oh dear God I thought I was going to be sick looking at that one. I was actually queasy... I have never seen anything swell up like that, Great fight though.

GSP vs. Shields was a huge disappoinment.

[Shady]

GSP vs. Shields was a huge disappoinment.

Yep. GSP was obsessing over his eye after the 2nd round, and Shields refused to pull guard after it was apparent there was no way he could take down GSP. However, I'm still trying to figure out how 2 judges gave 2 rounds to Jake Shields.

Worse than that, somehow Aldo received a score of 50-45. I wasn't aware one could win a round by lying on their back taking 300 punches to the body and face.

Edited May 1, 2011 by Shady

[Moonlight Graham]

Well, the main event was a bit of a dud. Shields didn't threaten GSP at all, and GSP was obviously way better yet didn't bother to put much pressure on Shields. Probably some of it was due to GSP's eye getting poked (or whatever happened...) but GSP just didn't seem like he was interested in finishing the fight.

Hominick vs Aldo, on the other hand, was amazing. After coming perilously close to getting knocked out, and with rather gruesome swelling on his forehead, Hominick didn't just hang in there, he put a beating on Aldo in the final round. If the fight had been just a a couple minutes longer, he might have been able to put him away.

The crowd at my place was off the charts for local kid Rory MacDonald in the preliminaries. Nate Diaz is a seriously tough guy, and Rory didn't just beat him, he beat the shit out of him. Those 3 slams were the craziest thing I've seen in MMA. It was like something out of WWE wrestling!

Randy Couture is retiring, which is good, because he's 47 years old and probably doesn't have much left to do in the Octagon unless James Toney feels like getting smacked around again. I expect that he will continue to be part of UFC in some capacity.

Pretty much agree with everything here. GSP was, yet again, disappointing. Before he got poked in the eye, he was running circles around Shields, and should have opened up more, attacked forward with more kicks and such. He got hit a bit more after the poke, but still didn't try much to finish. The guy has serious problems with wanting to take any risks at all, has no killer instinct. He has all this talent, and his speed and athleticism dwarf these guys he's fighting, but he doesn't use it to attack. A bunch of big right haymakers against a guy who has hardly any stand-up game isn't what i'd call "taking risks" for a finish. GSP is becoming a boring-ass fighter. Sucks for Shields who couldn't get much of a hold on GSP. Hope there will be a Silva-GSP fight, and GSP's eye is ok.

Rory MacDonald has been one of my favorite fighters since i saw him the match before his Condit fight (love Condit too) vs Mike Guymon...that was such a good fight too. He's really exciting to watch. The 3 slams were amazing!

Hominick was amazing too, what a heart! His head looked just like the huge bump Hasim Rahman had vs Lennox Lewis 10 years ago: ouch!

I think Aldo really had a hard weight-cut, he looked very dynamic the first round.

[WIP]

Pretty much agree with everything here. GSP was, yet again, disappointing. Before he got poked in the eye, he was running circles around Shields, and should have opened up more, attacked forward with more kicks and such. He got hit a bit more after the poke, but still didn't try much to finish. The guy has serious problems with wanting to take any risks at all, has no killer instinct. He has all this talent, and his speed and athleticism dwarf these guys he's fighting, but he doesn't use it to attack. A bunch of big right haymakers against a guy who has hardly any stand-up game isn't what i'd call "taking risks" for a finish. GSP is becoming a boring-ass fighter. Sucks for Shields who couldn't get much of a hold on GSP. Hope there will be a Silva-GSP fight, and GSP's eye is ok.

I just watched a clip of rounds 4 and 5 of the fight, and I got to say that most MMA fans seem to prefer watching brainless idiots like Chris Leben get their heads knocked off, rather than watch the best fight to win. Unless this is the !@#$$%%^ Roman Coliseum or something, the objective is to win the fight, not make a bunch of drunken fans happy! GSP doesn't seem to have a southpaw fighting stance, so that means if you can't see out of your left eye, you avoid clinches and keep circling to the right, and move in and out with short combinations! The more punches you throw, the more likely you're going to get hit with an overhand right that you can't see coming. That sucks if you want to go for a knockout, but only brainless morons like Leben or Chuck Liddel try to throw flurries when they can't see!

And, for what it's worth, Andersen Silva has done the same thing in at least two of his fights...played it safe and gone for a decision on points, rather than risk a knockout. And this sort of thing happens all the time in heavyweight boxing champ - Vladimir Klitschko's fights, since he would rather keep using his size and long jab against opponents who can't get inside on him. Again, it's stupid to expect the champion who's leading on points to put on a show -- it's up to the challenger to break through and make it a fight, instead of taunting the champion to drop his guard and throw flurries.

[kimmy]

Sure, Jake Shields needed to make something happen. He was losing. He wasn't accomplishing anything. He didn't do anything the whole fight, aside from poke GSP in the eye.

And you can't blame GSP for sticking with a gameplan that was working, especially when he was fighting with one eye.

But it was still boring. Terrible fight. If you love GSP for his amazing arsenal of techniques, you were probably pretty disappointed... because he didn't show much. Jab and fade, with the occasional windmilling overhand right mixed in. whoosh. whoosh. Wow. How many airballs did he throw? And he fought the same way before the eye-poke for 2 rounds. And he fought Josh Koscheck the same way for 5 rounds in his last fight.

And Chuck Liddell isn't an idiot.

-k

[Shakeyhands]

but only brainless morons like Leben or Chuck Liddel try to throw flurries when they can't see!

Hell, Guida has made a career out of it.

[Shakeyhands]

And Chuck Liddell isn't an idiot.

-k

Horrible haircut though for a man of his age.....

[Moonlight Graham]

And, for what it's worth, Andersen Silva has done the same thing in at least two of his fights...played it safe and gone for a decision on points, rather than risk a knockout.

Brilliant talent, but Anderson Silva is a wuss. He's afraid to get hit. He waits and waits for someone to attack so he can counter, then when the crowd starts to boo because the fight is starting suck because he's not doing anything he starts doing is stupid antics to make it look like he's "doing something" or to try to be entertaining.

GSP isn't a wuss IMO. I think he is just such a perfectionist that he doesn't want to risk putting himself into a position where he would be left vulnerable to any kind of attack if he can avoid it. He had that streak of consecutive rounds won, and that's how he did it. But i think he should realize that it's not a big deal if a guy can get a hold on you or maybe swing at your face because he has the talent to overcome that & still dominate. His big swings in the Shields fight where KO-type shots, but risk free. I liked to see him do this, and i liked the spinning side-kicks because he was aggressive, but it wasn't enough.

[Moonlight Graham]

Sure, Jake Shields needed to make something happen. He was losing. He wasn't accomplishing anything. He didn't do anything the whole fight, aside from poke GSP in the eye.

And you can't blame GSP for sticking with a gameplan that was working, especially when he was fighting with one eye.

But it was still boring. Terrible fight. If you love GSP for his amazing arsenal of techniques, you were probably pretty disappointed... because he didn't show much. Jab and fade, with the occasional windmilling overhand right mixed in. whoosh. whoosh. Wow. How many airballs did he throw? And he fought the same way before the eye-poke for 2 rounds. And he fought Josh Koscheck the same way for 5 rounds in his last fight.

I think he did better to do KO damage vs Shields. He did land some big shots on Shields via the looping right before the eye problem. Kosh got his face messed up mostly from the 5 rounds of constant jabs. F*** constant jabs! The man is a karate master, he should be busting guy's jaws in half with his feet.

I appreciate technical ability like jabs, but its a friggin' fight! They're out there to kick ass. Your goal shouldn't be to nab a 5-round win from the judges. The major reason why they have round limits is because during the early UFC's there were no time limits and the events went too long & past the pay-per-view timeslot limits. Then they introduced time limits to fix the problem, but there were unfair draws since they didn't use judges...so now we have rounds and judges.

Also, agree Shields needed to do more. He should have done more in round 1 & 2 when their bodies weren't as sweaty. He got good grab of GSP's leg in round 1 & almost took him down. He tried a few more takedowns in later rounds but was ineffective. Crappy gameplan + inferior takedown skills.

Edited May 5, 2011 by Moonlight Graham

[WIP]

I think he did better to do KO damage vs Shields. He did land some big shots on Shields via the looping right before the eye problem. Kosh got his face messed up mostly from the 5 rounds of constant jabs. F*** constant jabs! The man is a karate master, he should be busting guy's jaws in half with his feet.

But, we weren't there in the cage with GSP, so it's typical armchair athlete stuff. We don't know how much his vision was affected, but we do know that there are a lot of dummies in MMA who just react to the crowd and what their managers tell them in the corner. A losing fighter may get cheers from a crowd, but he has to go back to square one every time he loses a fight.

From the clip I seen of the later rounds, it looked like GSP was using that looping, overhand right to draw out Jake's guard, more than it was hoping to get lucky and score a knockout. He used that punch as bait for a couple of takedowns. One thing that took away from the fight is further confirmation that those grappling gloves are a menace, and need to either be abolished or altered to make them safer for the fighters. Alot of MMA fighters are getting permanent eye injuries because they are so small, and fight the hand so tightly that it is possible to get a knuckle into an opponent's eye socket. When I saw pictures of GSP's eye after the fight, I thought for sure it was from a thumb (which is the other issue with these gloves) -- but, instead it looked pretty clear that Jake Shields was able to get into St. Pierre's eye with a straight jab. If this kind of thing is permitted and Dana White does nothing about it, more and more of the better MMA fighters in the UFC need to take collective action....as Tito Ortiz tried to do a couple of years ago. It's not just about the money, and the number of fights that Dana White makes the champions take, there are a number of safety issues that are cutting careers short. If the worst case scenario happens, like GSP having a detached retina over this, that would end his career, and he would not be able to fight anywhere ever again.

I appreciate technical ability like jabs, but its a friggin' fight! They're out there to kick ass. Your goal shouldn't be to nab a 5-round win from the judges. The major reason why they have round limits is because during the early UFC's there were no time limits and the events went too long & past the pay-per-view timeslot limits. Then they introduced time limits to fix the problem, but there were unfair draws since they didn't use judges...so now we have rounds and judges.

Those early fights were fun to watch, but there were alot of fighters who suffered permanent, serious injuries afterward. Not many people really cared at first, because aside from Royce Gracie and Ken Shamrock, they were all unknowns, so no one cared where they went or what happened to them afterward. They were lucky there were no deaths in the cage in some of those fights, and that's why they had to keep adding more and more rules with each tournament.

[Oleg Bach]

I used to watch football with dad every Sunday morning.

A lot of women like watching men fight, Oleg. There's something about a display of masculine prowess that gets a woman's wheels turning. She loves knowing that her guy can take care of business, whether it's punching out some jerk or replacing the burned out alternator in her car or even just whipping ass at the pool table or baseball diamond. As a champion of old-fashioned manliness, I think you'd completely get it.

-k

My old mother inlaw liked to sing "It's so nice to have a man around the house" - BUT - as of late my X has taken to power tools - she won't let me use her fancy electric screw driver...she wants to use it...she also has a collection of wrenches that she insists I am coveting...oh well - I like to show masculine prowess...also - My wife used to say - it's good to have you around - YOU keep the riff raff away...which I did...because she was a terrible judge of character and wanted everyone to like her...where as my prowess consisted of not giving a damn if I was liked or not by other males...as for fighting - as a young man I could take care of myself....never would I cause damage to a man that was down - usually just humilitate them with a kick with the side of my foot - where as UFC - is much to brutal for me - I really like boxing though...it has rules and it has dignity.

[Shady]

where as UFC - is much to brutal for me - I really like boxing though...it has rules and it has dignity.

Oleg, you're just part of the older, more confused population. The UFC has rules akin to boxing. It's also sanctioned by the same athletic commissions. You just don't understand what those rules are, nor do you want to. It's probably easier for you to remain ignorant.

[Moonlight Graham]

Oleg, you're just part of the older, more confused population. The UFC has rules akin to boxing. It's also sanctioned by the same athletic commissions. You just don't understand what those rules are, nor do you want to. It's probably easier for you to remain ignorant.

I've been watching the first few UFC tournaments from 1993-1994 in the last week. They have "no rules"!!!...(except no eye-gouging, biting, or ball-kicking). Funny how the least-violent guy has been cleaning up, he just makes people go to sleep.

[Jack Weber]

I just watched a clip of rounds 4 and 5 of the fight, and I got to say that most MMA fans seem to prefer watching brainless idiots like Chris Leben get their heads knocked off, rather than watch the best fight to win. Unless this is the !@#$$%%^ Roman Coliseum or something, the objective is to win the fight, not make a bunch of drunken fans happy! GSP doesn't seem to have a southpaw fighting stance, so that means if you can't see out of your left eye, you avoid clinches and keep circling to the right, and move in and out with short combinations! The more punches you throw, the more likely you're going to get hit with an overhand right that you can't see coming. That sucks if you want to go for a knockout, but only brainless morons like Leben or Chuck Liddel try to throw flurries when they can't see!

And, for what it's worth, Andersen Silva has done the same thing in at least two of his fights...played it safe and gone for a decision on points, rather than risk a knockout. And this sort of thing happens all the time in heavyweight boxing champ - Vladimir Klitschko's fights, since he would rather keep using his size and long jab against opponents who can't get inside on him. Again, it's stupid to expect the champion who's leading on points to put on a show -- it's up to the challenger to break through and make it a fight, instead of taunting the champion to drop his guard and throw flurries.

There's a reason for Klitschko's boxing style...

He does'nt have the greatest beard in the world!!!

The fight ,and result,with Cory Sanders was exhibit A of that!

Best to bomb away from the outside and control a fight with a good jab than mis it up on the inside and get caught with something bad...

Edited May 9, 2011 by Jack Weber

[dre]

Oleg, you're just part of the older, more confused population. The UFC has rules akin to boxing. It's also sanctioned by the same athletic commissions. You just don't understand what those rules are, nor do you want to. It's probably easier for you to remain ignorant.

Its really a perception thing. MMA is a lot safer than boxing but its doesnt "look" like it is. To be honest... If I watched both of them for the first time I would think that MMA was more brutal and dangerous too! But the fact is that MMA is a lot safer for the fighters.

[bloodyminded]

Well, I said I didn't figure you as somebody who didn't watch MMA, which isn't quite the same thing. It's just been my observation that those of you who are ... uh, "more experienced" tend to think MMA is for classless young mooks, and consider it the downfall of civilized society. It's also been my observation that those who are somewhat left of center often despise combat sports of all stripes (as well as hockey or football), and would prefer to watch soccer or cricket or some other "world sport". Or despise all competitive sports, especially professional sports.

I know exactly what you mean. But it is really such a minority as to be irrelevant.

[Sir Bandelot]

Just watched Bonnar vs Soszynski. Interesting match, until the last minute. Fifty unanswered head-shots before the ref stepped in. Now there's an inspiring sport, for alcohol soaked couch potatoes.