DogOnPorch Posted March 9, 2010 Report Share Posted March 9, 2010 A bit after my time over there...lol. As for the thread... I find the term 'visible minority' not only stupid and racist, but very inaccurate. Chinese a visible minority on this planet? Okie-doke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted March 9, 2010 Report Share Posted March 9, 2010 A bit after my time over there...lol. As for the thread... I find the term 'visible minority' not only stupid and racist, but very inaccurate. Chinese a visible minority on this planet? Okie-doke. My son is a visable minority in any nation on the planet. Blue eyed red headed rapscallions are always on the shorter list Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted March 9, 2010 Report Share Posted March 9, 2010 My son is a visable minority in any nation on the planet. Blue eyed red headed rapscallions are always on the shorter list ...or those Canadians of Andorran decent. There's gotta be a few by now, eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted March 9, 2010 Report Share Posted March 9, 2010 I understand the transition can take some time, and as long as the desire to at least interract in the same language is present, I'll happily wait whatever time it takes them to adjust. I've come across some who vehemently advocate their own culture and have no desire to at least give ours a try. Of course I'm talking about the exceptions, not the rule . my father never fully integrated but then he never mastered the language so it wasn't really an option, working with immigrants of various other nationalities didn't help his situation...plus there was an obvious bias against non British immigrants at that time so it's not always a matter of immigrants wanting to integrate but also one of accepting the immigrantsThey might have had some extenuating circumstances to justify their position, but again, were not in the least eager to integrate themselves.but I know Canadians like that as well...as posted before it's absolutely normal for immigrants to socialize with people that share their background/interests...as do all Canadians, don't we all pick our friends from those we have things in common?...then there are obvious Canadian racists(some in this forum) that make immigrants leery of any contact with us... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wooster Posted March 9, 2010 Report Share Posted March 9, 2010 my father never fully integrated but then he never mastered the language so it wasn't really an option, working with immigrants of various other nationalities didn't help his situation...plus there was an obvious bias against non British immigrants at that time so it's not always a matter of immigrants wanting to integrate but also one of accepting the immigrants but I know Canadians like that as well...as posted before it's absolutely normal for immigrants to socialize with people that share their background/interests...as do all Canadians, don't we all pick our friends from those we have things in common?... then there are obvious Canadian racists(some in this forum) that make immigrants leery of any contact with us... I have to concede that point to you; I am myself a Canadian who sometimes does not wish to bother with too many social niceties. Perhaps I am not expressing my point adequately, or rather, maybe I don't have one - Maybe we should just try and make the transition as smooth as possible. As for racism in Canada, as I've mentionned, I live in a very rural part of the country, and I'm sometimes appaled at the comments which can be heard from the ''old-timers'' , words that would be unnacceptable in most civilized discourse. Another issue in my province is the bilingual aspect; I actually come from a strictly-french neighborhood, and my knowledge of english is therefore entirely based on mediums such as books etc.. If you drive about 45 minutes from my place, then it's 90% english, and I'm often quite amazed at the prejudice that still exists between the french and english communities, and also some of the friction between french quebequers and french newbies. I still here a lot of ''oh I could tell he was ''english'' ... just by his face'' and such, which never cease to amaze me. I embrace both languages,albeit my french beeing a bit tainted - and try to use the same tolerance when it comes to race. Still sometimes I wish the surrounding villages would get with the times- although I'm guessing similar behavior also exists in the larger cities, it's probably just a little less public Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted March 10, 2010 Report Share Posted March 10, 2010 Regardless, there are a number of historical stories of early encounters where European settlers were welcomed and aided by the natives. My point is that had they had any idea what would happen the natives would have immediately massacred every boatload that arrived. They considered it, but they were at war with other tribes and some thought that these newcomers could somehow help them. As I've posted elsewhere, I'm reading about the era of Andrew Jackson and the early years of parity with the native tribes were quite interesting. There was more equality at play than one would think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted March 10, 2010 Report Share Posted March 10, 2010 Argus, your post implies that there is something "undesirable" about foreign born citizens. Without any evidence, you imply that there is a looming disaster. Moreover, you conflate immigrants with "non-whites," saying that whites will be in the minority. Certainly, there are immigrants that are white, but your post shows that you are not concerned about them. It is clear that you are using immigration to mask racist sentiments. I have a strange feeling that you would be a big fan of James Shaver Woodsworth before he get messed up in the Winnipeg General Strike and CCF. He wrote a book called Strangers Within Our Gates that ranked the desirability of various immigrants coming to Canada prior to the Great War. Allow me to summarize by saying the darker their complexion, the less desirable they were because of "inherent deficiencies in character." By no means was it a binary distinction, either they ought to be allowed into Canada or not. The races and nationalities were ranked based on their desirableness with the whiter nations at the top of the list of course. Your thinking would have us revisiting a racial nationalist agenda that existed at the turn of the century. I'm certain there aren't very many Canadians that would agree with dragging Canadian politics back to the early industrial era. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted March 10, 2010 Report Share Posted March 10, 2010 (edited) I wonder if this is what anyone born here ever asked for or was ever asked about. Did the liberals, at any point in time, ask the population if it would be a good idea to bring in so many foreigners in such a short time that they would actually outnumber Canadians?Yes, the Liberals did.Our modern immigration policy dates from 1976 and was the product of extensive consultation. The Conservatives were elected in 1984 and they followed the same policy, as have Harper's government. Is Canadian government/politics unresponsive to popular opinion? I think not. In the same time, there has been a popular desire to remove Quebec from Canada. Canadian democracy is managing to deal with this controversial issue. Simply put, Argus: most Canadians don't share your fear of immigrants. You pretend to speak for a silent majority but in fact you don't. Granted, lately, that is, the last five or six years, our institutions of government have started to recognize the problem, have started to distance themselves from their embrace of "multiculturalism" and redefined its meaning. Now, they are encouraging newcomers to try and integrate where for most of the last forty years the cry from the political elites has been that all cultures are equal and immigrants should feel free to continue to embrace their own.Multiculturalism, at its origin (under Trudeau), was simply the admission that the federal government has no single official cultural policy.The Canadian State has two official languages but no official cultural policy. That strikes me as obvious in a country such as Canada - if not in countries where everyone speaks the same language. I find the term 'visible minority' not only stupid and racist, but very inaccurate. Chinese a visible minority on this planet? Okie-doke.DoP, I agree with you and Morris. If you are not a "visible minority", does that make you an "invisible majority".That Statcan report contains the following absurdity: By 2031, according to the reference scenario, more than 71% of all visible minority people would live in Canada's three largest census metropolitan areas: Toronto, Vancouver and Montréal. Statcan(If they're 71%, how can they be a minority?) ---- IMV, the Statcan report contains two key facts: By 2031, between 25% and 28% of the population could be foreign-born. This would surpass the proportion of 22% observed between 1911 and 1931, the highest during the twentieth century. About 55% of this population would be born in Asia.... The South Asian population, which would still be the largest visible minority group, could more than double from roughly 1.3 million in 2006 to between 3.2 million and 4.1 million. The Chinese population is projected to grow from 1.3 million to between 2.4 million and 3.0 million. South Asians would represent 28% of the population belonging to visible minority groups, up from 25%, while the share of Chinese would decline from 24% to 21%. This is because Chinese women have one of the lowest fertility rates in Canada, unlike South Asian women. Also, people born in China have a higher propensity to emigrate than South Asians. Canada's Black and Filipino populations, which were the third and fourth largest visible minority groups in 2006, could also double in size. The Arab and West Asian groups could more than triple, the fastest growth among all groups. First, in the early 1900s we received many immigrants and current projections (assuming the projections are accurate) put us in a similar position in 20 years (2031). IOW, we've been here before (and survived) and a projection says that maybe in 20 years we'll be there again. What's controversial in that? Why the sensational, end-of-the-world, HIV-AIDS, global warming catastrophe headlines? It's like saying that "20 years ago, 10% of people died of cancer and according to current projections, in 2030, about 10% will die of cancer." Second, foreigners in Canada are a diverse group. At present, many are Chinese but the Chinese tend to have fewer children and the kids of Chinese tend to move elsewhere. (Why?) No single group dominates. ---- Underneath all, like at the end of the 19th century, we now live in a world of few barriers. Argus, you seem to think that you can draw a barrier around several million square kilometers and prevent people from leaving or entering that territory. Some dictators tried that in the 20th century and it was an utter failure. We live on one single planet. It seems to me that the challenge of the future will be for the State to define what a government is and what its obligations are. The Canadian Revenue Agency certainly has a broad definition of territory. (Recent tax forms explicitly require a declaration of any assets outside of Canada. Soon I suspect, all Canadian citizens will have to make an annual tax declaration regardless of where they live - as the IRS requires of American citizens.) But better yet, markets have their own way of deciding these things: Manhatten is a wonderful place to visit but it's far too expensive to live there. Edited March 10, 2010 by August1991 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battletoads Posted March 10, 2010 Report Share Posted March 10, 2010 I for one have no problem with immigrants so long as they are hard working and adhere to Canadian values. Its to bad the Cons seem to have the opposite goal... Cons: Your a muslim man who hates women and western society? Welcome to Canada. Meanwhile Cons: Hey you defected from russia decades ago and have since become a productive member of society with a canadian born child? Get the hell out pinko. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justme Posted March 10, 2010 Report Share Posted March 10, 2010 Simply put, Argus: most Canadians don't share your fear of immigrants. You pretend to speak for a silent majority but in fact you don't. Actually, according to a poll on the CTV web site, 79% say that the immigration policy is too open. Perhaps it is you that should not speak for others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justme Posted March 10, 2010 Report Share Posted March 10, 2010 I for one have no problem with immigrants so long as they are hard working and adhere to Canadian values. Its to bad the Cons seem to have the opposite goal... Cons: Your a muslim man who hates women and western society? Welcome to Canada. Meanwhile Cons: Hey you defected from russia decades ago and have since become a productive member of society with a canadian born child? Get the hell out pinko. I've heard quite a few stories about people from Europe and Australia having problems immigrating to Canada, yet the South Asian population is exploding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted March 10, 2010 Report Share Posted March 10, 2010 Actually, according to a poll on the CTV web site, 79% say that the immigration policy is too open. Perhaps it is you that should not speak for others. Really, and just how open is it? Do people actually know? This isn't something like healthcare that people actually have experience with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted March 10, 2010 Report Share Posted March 10, 2010 I've heard quite a few stories about people from Europe and Australia having problems immigrating to Canada, yet the South Asian population is exploding. Lots of people have trouble immigrating to Canada. The number of people from south asia that want to come is probably much higher than the nuber that get to. Besides, it's not as if people from Europe or Australia are somehow better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted March 10, 2010 Report Share Posted March 10, 2010 Really, and just how open is it? Do people actually know? This isn't something like healthcare that people actually have experience with. The degree to which it is open is easily quantified by the number of people that come through each year, which is 300,000. When people say the system is too open, they mean one of two things. Either, they simply mean that the number of 300,000/year is too high, or they mean that potential immigrants should be screened more thoroughly. In my opinion, both are true. In the long term we could handle maybe 1/3-1/2 that rate of immigration if we want our culture not to be radically altered on short timescales by immigration. And, we also need to be more thorough in ensuring that unsavory elements (criminals, fanatics, and leeches) are kept out. This should be done through a combination of more rigorous application procedures, tests, interviews, and yes, if necessary to speed the system along, profiling. Oh and I've gone through 3 immigrations in my life so it's something I have experience with Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justme Posted March 10, 2010 Report Share Posted March 10, 2010 (edited) Argus, your post implies that there is something "undesirable" about foreign born citizens. Something undesirable about an individual? No. Something undesirable about a huge demographic shift? Yes. Without any evidence, you imply that there is a looming disaster. Oh there's plenty of evidence, just you don't agree that it is a looming disaster, but I bet that if it happened to these immigrants in their countries of origin they'd consider it such. Moreover, you conflate immigrants with "non-whites," saying that whites will be in the minority. Gee, I can't find the connection either. Could it have anything to do with the fact that most the immigration is coming from non-white countries? I don't know. Edited March 10, 2010 by justme Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justme Posted March 10, 2010 Report Share Posted March 10, 2010 Really, and just how open is it? Do people actually know? This isn't something like healthcare that people actually have experience with. It's based on the information released by statistics Canada that is the subject of this thread and on every news site. In other words, people read/watch video about the demographic shift and it asks if they're ok with it. The overwhelming majority said no. And to be honest with you, given that I live in the GTA, I got a good laugh out of what you said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justme Posted March 10, 2010 Report Share Posted March 10, 2010 Lots of people have trouble immigrating to Canada. The number of people from south asia that want to come is probably much higher than the nuber that get to. Besides, it's not as if people from Europe or Australia are somehow better. According to Statistics Canada, between 2001-2006, the South Asian population in Brampton more than doubled while the white population decreased by nearly 10,000. Do you know of any place in Canada where the European or Australian population doubled? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shwa Posted March 10, 2010 Report Share Posted March 10, 2010 Argus, your post implies that there is something "undesirable" about foreign born citizens. Without any evidence, you imply that there is a looming disaster. Moreover, you conflate immigrants with "non-whites," saying that whites will be in the minority. Certainly, there are immigrants that are white, but your post shows that you are not concerned about them. It is clear that you are using immigration to mask racist sentiments. I have a strange feeling that you would be a big fan of James Shaver Woodsworth before he get messed up in the Winnipeg General Strike and CCF. He wrote a book called Strangers Within Our Gates that ranked the desirability of various immigrants coming to Canada prior to the Great War. Allow me to summarize by saying the darker their complexion, the less desirable they were because of "inherent deficiencies in character." By no means was it a binary distinction, either they ought to be allowed into Canada or not. The races and nationalities were ranked based on their desirableness with the whiter nations at the top of the list of course. Your thinking would have us revisiting a racial nationalist agenda that existed at the turn of the century. I'm certain there aren't very many Canadians that would agree with dragging Canadian politics back to the early industrial era. Excellent post! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted March 10, 2010 Report Share Posted March 10, 2010 Do you know of any place in Canada where the European or Australian population doubled? Who cares. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry J. Fortin Posted March 10, 2010 Report Share Posted March 10, 2010 Who cares. I must agree here as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted March 10, 2010 Report Share Posted March 10, 2010 I've heard quite a few stories about people from Europe and Australia having problems immigrating to Canada, yet the South Asian population is exploding. I have heard numerous stories about people from the philipines, India and china having problems immigrating yet most people in Australia are more than happy to live there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted March 10, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2010 this is absolutely normal, immigrants will always stay close with what is familiar in their own community, go to any country and you will find foreign expats grouping together, Canadians as well... 2nd generation immigrants becomes as Canadian as anyone else... Really? How do they do that? I mean, sure, if you're the single Polish kid in a class filled with Canadians, you're quickly going to become integrated and Canadian. If you're an Iranian in a class made up of 22 foreign born kids and 2 Canadians, just how is it you're going to be "integrated" into Canada's culture? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted March 10, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2010 then there are obvious Canadian racists(some in this forum) that make immigrants leery of any contact with us... By and large, immigrants are FAR, FAR more racist than people born in Canada. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted March 10, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2010 Argus, your post implies that there is something "undesirable" about foreign born citizens. I understand that to the PC zealots, the thought that a Canadian might prefer to live among Canadians, with similar cultural values, beliefs and behaviours, instead of among foreigners, is abhorrant. But then, I think PC zealots are brainless imbeciles, so I never really care about their opinions. Moreover, you conflate immigrants with "non-whites," saying that whites will be in the minority. As has previously been posted, the vast, vast majority of non-aboriginal "visible minorities" are immigrants who arrived since immigration was loosened up in the `70s. It's rare enough that I'm still somewhat surprised when I run into a non-white person who does not speak with a heavy accent. Certainly, there are immigrants that are white, but your post shows that you are not concerned about them. Yes, I am, because they are, for the most part, from third world countries, have poor language skills, perform poorly economically, and have much more difficulty integrating because of their widely different cultural and religious backgrounds. An immigrant from, for example, Poland, has a far easier time. It is clear that you are using immigration to mask racist sentiments. The clarity of your vision has led me on previous occasions to consider you to be, intellectually speaking, legally blind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted March 10, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2010 Yes, the Liberals did Our modern immigration policy dates from 1976 and was the product of extensive consultation. The consultation was with business which wanted cheap labour, and with representatives (often self described) of various ethnic communities and immigration lawyers. The Conservatives were elected in 1984 and they followed the same policy, as have Harper's government. Yes, the point being to ingratiate themselves with ethnic communities, not to help Canada in any way. Simply put, Argus: most Canadians don't share your fear of immigrants. You pretend to speak for a silent majority but in fact you don't. August, you're as two-faced on this issue as anyone on this site can be or ever has been on any subject. Every time immigration comes up you take on the attitude of the worldly sophisticate who embraces differences and welcomes the various hues of the world's cultures. Whenever anyone brings up Quebec though you shut right down. Quebec is for the pure laine. Quebec is for Francophones. You embrace immigrants for Canada - the more the better - as long as they don't go to Quebec. Your province has the most restrictive immigration system in the country and you're quite content with that. Quebec's culture must be protected at all costs! As for the rest of Canada, you could not possibly care less. If the prospect was that Montreal would have a foreign - non-french - population of 78% within 20 years you and your separatist Quebecista friends would be burning down the parliament buildings. That you have the gall to keep coming on here and giving this pretense of welcoming the world is more than slightly contemptable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.