Canadian Government Guilty of Violating Khadr's Rights

[bush_cheney2004]

The USMC you need to be a citizen of the US, however you can join the army, navy, or airforce without being a citizen....

The restrictions are not that tight...you just need to be a legal resident alien ("Green Card"), except for commissioned officers who must be US citizens. Or claim citizenship through parents or marriage to a US citizen. Technically, Canadian First Nations can be recruited directly because of the Jay Treaty.

It's amazing how many non-US citizens want to be Marines...must be those stud recruiting commercials.

[Army Guy]

again coercion, which is an admission this kid did not understand what he was getting into, we require parental consent for under 18 because they're CHILDREN! under 16 isn't permitted at all because they're CHILDREN! they aren't considered responsible enough to make those decisions in Canada but yet you want to hold a child responsible for his actions...what hypocrisy!

And yet our laws and history is full of children being held responable for thier crimes, and in some cases where those crimes where so bad they where tried as adults for thier crimes explain that....Are we being hyprocrictal, I think all thats happen is we closed that loop for minors to get away with light sentences for serious crimes....

it's exactly the same...they don't fear death because they believe in an afterlife just as most of our soldiers do...

Are you freakin serious, Wyly did you not claim at one time to have served our military? ...And while i've prayed to the big guy many times during combat operations it was because dying scare the crap out of me...hence why the fear., ...make no doubt about it most soldiers in our military do fear death, we learn to control that fear, because our survival depends on it ....as without it you'll soon find yourself in a bag... As for the after life, kind of heard to explain that one as no one really has any proof of what happens after your dead, what we see on the battle field is torn up bodies, nothing to suggest that dying is an religious experiance where you see lights and greeted at the gates by anything let alone 40 virgins dress in the latest in thong attire...And while i do have strong sexual urges they do not trump my will to stay in the present,as a mortal being....

[noahbody]

In addition to being thrown wildly off course by adults since the age of three or four, Khadr was not over 15 and was in an emotionally-charged situation.

He was over 15.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omar_Khadr

[bloodyminded]

He was over 15.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omar_Khadr

Your link says he WAS 15.

[noahbody]

Your link says he WAS 15.

In the context, "It is important to note that generally adolescents over the age of 15 can be as capable as adults in focused decisionmaking situations..." he was over 15.

[eyeball]

In the context, "It is important to note that generally adolescents over the age of 15 can be as capable as adults in focused decisionmaking situations..." he was over 15.

If you insist on quibbling he was in his 15th year, not over it. In any case, as noted above by True Metis;

Are Youth Capable of Making Decisions? Yes. It is important to note that generally adolescents over the age of 15 can be as capable as adults in focused decisionmaking situations (cold cognition.) However, the impulsive, short-sighted judgment associated with delinquency is influenced by the combination of cognitive and psychosocial factors (hot cognition.) When children find themselves in emotionally-charged situations, the parts of the brain that regulate emotion, rather than reasoning, are more likely to be engaged.

http://physiciansforhumanrights.org/juvenile-justice/factsheets/braindev.pdf

Don't forget this kid's moral compass had also been deliberately deviated by adults from childhood and he's probably been in and out of emotionally charged situations for the better part of his entire life.

Put yourself in his shoes for a moment - how does it feel?

[M.Dancer]

Don't forget this kid's moral compass had also been deliberately deviated by adults from childhood and he's probably been in and out of emotionally charged situations for the better part of his entire life.

How do parents deviate something that can only be given by the parents? Do you have any proof that the kid's morality is somehow different from the parents? And that once given by the parents, they deviated from it?

Put yourself in his shoes for a moment - how does it feel?

Terrible. His shoes are too big, too narrow, smell like rancid goat and they are not Bostonian Oxfords.

Now that we have dealt with the exercise in podiatric empathy, who gives a crap about his footwear?

[eyeball]

How do parents deviate something that can only be given by the parents?

By not providing the appropriate moral compass that society expects them to provide, like clothes and shelter for example.

Do you have any proof that the kid's morality is somehow different from the parents?

No, don't you? You've been trying to make the case for years now that Omar Khadr is a perfectly normal healthy kid capable of making rational adult choices.

And that once given by the parents, they deviated from it?

I have no evidence of Omar Khadr's parents denouncing their son, his actions or the army they indoctrinated him into. Do you?

Now that we have dealt with the exercise in podiatric empathy, who gives a crap about his footwear?

Apparently some 64% of Canadians care. I guess there's that many of us who still have moral compasses that are appropriate for our society.

Link

[ToadBrother]

Apparently some 64% of Canadians care. I guess there's that many of us who still have moral compasses that are appropriate for our society.

Speaking of moral compasses, since you believe Khadr was a brainwashed drone, where's your demands that his family be charged with child abuse and imprisoned?

[M.Dancer]

By not providing the appropriate moral compass that society expects them to provide, like clothes and shelter for example.

Inhaven't heard that he ran around naked in the rain. Is that alla moral compass is to you?

No, don't you? You've been trying to make the case for years now that Omar Khadr is a perfectly normal healthy kid capable of making rational adult choices.

I have never made a case he is normal. Which is why he should be put away. It is you who makes the case he is normal, only that his parents somehow changed him. I don't think that would stand the logic test any better than most of your gobblygook.

I have no evidence of Omar Khadr's parents denouncing their son, his actions or the army they indoctrinated him into. Do you?

Why would they denounce their son? Did he suddenly embrace the virtures of western civilization? They gave him his moral compass, they did not, as you blurted, "deviated by adults"

Apparently some 64% of Canadians care. I guess there's that many of us who still have moral compasses that are appropriate for our society.

Link

I didn't read anything about whether his shoes are up to the walk...

[wyly]

Speaking of moral compasses, since you believe Khadr was a brainwashed drone, where's your demands that his family be charged with child abuse and imprisoned?

start down that road and then we would have to charge the majority of the population for brainwashing their kids in any religious indoctrination...brainwashed drones all of them...

[Guest American Woman]

start down that road and then we would have to charge the majority of the population for brainwashing their kids in any religious indoctrination...brainwashed drones all of them...

You can't be serious. You're now comparing raising a child soldier, which is against international law, to raising kids with religion??

Btw, I'm still waiting to hear about all the morals and ethics that terrorist possess. Was the question too difficult for you? Perhaps you shouldn't make statements that you can't back up.

[noahbody]

If you insist on quibbling he was in his 15th year, not over it. In any case, as noted above by True Metis;

I was just correcting you. In context, you were stating he was 14 or less.

Don't forget this kid's moral compass had also been deliberately deviated by adults from childhood and he's probably been in and out of emotionally charged situations for the better part of his entire life.

Did you ever watch that 60 minutes interview where the younger brother talks about the beautiful virgins? You should. Also read the interviews from the documentary "Son of Al Qaeda." In the latter, Abdullah, when asked about returning to Canada, says Canada doesn't share his way of life. He's barely lived here. Same is true with Omar. Sure he was here for a few years at his father's bedside when his dad was recovering from battle, but that's it.

If he is ever released, he should be released to live in Pakistan. That's where his way of life is.

As far as his mental capacity goes, those who knew him best gave him important responsibilities.

Put yourself in his shoes for a moment - how does it feel?

I'd want to take revenge for my father's death, because that is what my father, I loved dearly, and Allah would want.

[wyly]

You can't be serious. You're now comparing raising a child soldier, which is against international law, to raising kids with religion??

ahh so now you're admitting he not responsible for his actions????

and ya it's exactly the same thing there are a number of extreme religions that fill their kids heads with weird shit...wasn't it Sarah palin that said the war in Iraq was gods will? I believe it was but I can't recall the exact quote...

Btw, I'm still waiting to hear about all the morals and ethics that terrorist possess. Was the question too difficult for you? Perhaps you shouldn't make statements that you can't back up.

oh please give it some thought any adult should be able to understand it...it says quite alot about you if you can't...

[eyeball]

Speaking of moral compasses, since you believe Khadr was a brainwashed drone, where's your demands that his family be charged with child abuse and imprisoned?

Right here - and that was for alleged abuse right? What do you think the impact would be to Khadr's defense if his mother was found guilty of child abuse - abuse of a specific type designed to indoctrinate her child into waging war against us? You still figure Omar should be punished instead of being treated?

By the way, why hasn't the government arrested his mother? Why would they need to listen to my demands when so many others who argue against her son have also demanded the government arrest her and charge for her crimes? You certainly won't get any arguments from me if they do.

[Guest American Woman]

ahh so now you're admitting he not responsible for his actions????

Nope. Not at all.

and ya it's exactly the same thing there are a number of extreme religions that fill their kids heads with weird shit...wasn't it Sarah palin that said the war in Iraq was gods will? I believe it was but I can't recall the exact quote...

Wow. Saying stupid things is exactly the same as raising a child soldier. You've convinced me!

a thousand times over

oh please give it some thought any adult should be able to understand it...it says quite alot about you if you can't...

So you don't have any answer and you can't back up your statement.

Can't say I'm surprised.

Edited February 10, 2010 by American Woman

[M.Dancer]

You can't be serious. You're now comparing raising a child soldier, which is against international law, to raising kids with religion??

He's is correct. Start down that slippery slope and the lawyers would have a field day. You can however charge people for indoctrinating children into a life of crime.

Hating the west (jews, christians, beer, dancing...) is not a crime.

[wyly]

Nope. Not at all.

so his parents have commited a war crime by brainwashing a kid but the kid is guilty...that's incredible leap of logic...

a nation of intollerant wacko's, intolerance breeds hate...

So you don't have any answer and you can't back up your statement.

Can't say I'm surprised.

stupid questions don't deserve an answer...spoon feeding adults doesn't make them smarter...

[Guest American Woman]

so his parents have commited a war crime by brainwashing a kid but the kid is guilty...that's incredible leap of logic...

The parents have committed a crime by being abusive and raising him to be a child soldier. But here's the thing, and I'm repeating myself here, lots of people who commit crimes were raised by abusive parents. Doesn't mean one isn't responsible for their crimes.

stupid questions don't deserve an answer...spoon feeding adults doesn't make them smarter...

I see. So when you make a statement, and someone asks you to back it up, and you can't, you simply respond by claiming the QUESTION was "stupid." And of course when you can't answer a question, it would be "spoon feeding" to comply; not "discussing," not "backing up your claim." But "spoon feeding."

Just admit you made a statement that you can't back up. It would make you look a helluva lot better than this pathetic attempt to insult me makes you look.

[eyeball]

Inhaven't heard that he ran around naked in the rain. Is that alla moral compass is to you?

Not at all. What do you think it is?

I have never made a case he is normal. Which is why he should be put away. It is you who makes the case he is normal, only that his parents somehow changed him. I don't think that would stand the logic test any better than most of your gobblygook.

You've made the case he is capable of making rational choices like any normal person. I've made the case he was raised in such an abnormal way that it resulted in him being unable to make rational choices. This gobbledygook is a test that has been treated by the courts and child protection laws in several countries including ours. In Omar Khadr's case our country has chosen to deviate from the norm because it's moral compass is out of whack.

Why would they denounce their son?

I don't know, but it would sure help your case that their son was normal enough to make rational adult choices for himself.

Did he suddenly embrace the virtures of western civilization?

I don't know. In any case it should be up to a team of doctors and psychologists to declare whether he is capable of embracing and living up to them.

They gave him his moral compass, they did not, as you blurted, "deviated by adults"

They gave him a broken compass and deliberately led him off course. Why is such a simple concept so difficult for you to grasp?

[eyeball]

He's is correct. Start down that slippery slope and the lawyers would have a field day. You can however charge people for indoctrinating children into a life of crime.

It's not just a slippery slope, it's Pandora's Box, and our country opened it up when it chose to leave Omar Khadr to rot without any Charter Rights.

Hating the west (jews, christians, beer, dancing...) is not a crime.

It should be. Hating kids should be too.

[M.Dancer]

They gave him a broken compass and deliberately led him off course. Why is such a simple concept so difficult for you to grasp?

Because I do not believe that moral compasses are innate features, someting we are born with. The moral compass he has is the same as his parents.

You've made the case he is capable of making rational choices like any normal person.

Correct. For him and the culturally approved moral compass he has, handed down to him through generations, he made the rational choice. Jihad.

I've made the case he was raised in such an abnormal way that it resulted in him being unable to make rational choices.

Then you are pretty close to making a case that his brand of Islam and culture is sick. When do you start attending the anto immigration protests?

[ToadBrother]

Right here - and that was for alleged abuse right? What do you think the impact would be to Khadr's defense if his mother was found guilty of child abuse - abuse of a specific type designed to indoctrinate her child into waging war against us? You still figure Omar should be punished instead of being treated?

It probably would have no more impact than revelations that an accused child molester had been molested. That parents do bad things that create warped offspring hardly means those offspring are exempted from their own crimes. It might be a mitigating factor in sentencing, but that's up to the judge, and comes after a conviction anyways.

By the way, why hasn't the government arrested his mother? Why would they need to listen to my demands when so many others who argue against her son have also demanded the government arrest her and charge for her crimes? You certainly won't get any arguments from me if they do.

Because it would be hard to win. If I teach my kid to be a racist, and he goes and kills a Jew, there's sufficient distance between the actual act and my teachings that prosecuting me would be terribly difficult.

[eyeball]

It probably would have no more impact than revelations that an accused child molester had been molested. That parents do bad things that create warped offspring hardly means those offspring are exempted from their own crimes. It might be a mitigating factor in sentencing, but that's up to the judge, and comes after a conviction anyways.

If the accused child molester was still a child at the time of their arrest it would most definitely be a mitigating factor, especially if the child was taught by the parents to molest other children.

Anyone with a shred of common sense and decency can see it would be difficult to justify even charging such a child let alone convicting and sentencing them. In the remote chance charges were even brought the likelihood of a not-guilty plea on the basis of the mitigating factors being accepted almost immediately are probably in the 99.9% range.

Because it would be hard to win. If I teach my kid to be a racist, and he goes and kills a Jew, there's sufficient distance between the actual act and my teachings that prosecuting me would be terribly difficult.

I doubt if you would do this, but what if your kid had been kidnapped and this is what happened? Would you feel that defending him would be so difficult as to preclude your attempt to do so or would you just write him off as a monster and hope he's punished and rots?

Edited February 10, 2010 by eyeball

[eyeball]

Because I do not believe that moral compasses are innate features, someting we are born with. The moral compass he has is the same as his parents.

This doesn't change the fact it's not his fault.

Correct. For him and the culturally approved moral compass he has, handed down to him through generations, he made the rational choice. Jihad.

Correction, you've made the case he is capable of making rational choices like any normal Canadian with the same rights as you and me.

Then you are pretty close to making a case that his brand of Islam and culture is sick. When do you start attending the anto immigration protests?

I'll be to busy attending rallies to make it a Charter right that children be protected from superstition in general.

Edited February 10, 2010 by eyeball