Haiti Earthquake

[ToadBrother]

But 6 months from now, a year from now, 3 years from now, you won't hear a peep as we move on to the next trendy event. That is when Haiti will need the help the most and when the reality of refugee politics kicks in and Canada and the US will be faced with trying to contain huge influxes of catastrophe refugees without coming across as being mean.

The bottom line is, when people see such disasters there is a genuine sympathetic reaction followed later by the keep those poo people on their own island reactions.

Thanks for that insightful post. Good to see someone who knows a bit about the country face to face speaking up.

Haiti has been a horrible mess for over a century. Interference in its affairs often as not has lead to things getting worse.

I don't know how you go about fixing a place like Haiti. We can't even figure it out for Afghanistan, a place that, as poor as it is, has a better standard of living. We could invest billions and rebuild the place, but there has to be some will on the part of Haitians to make a responsible, democratic government. Unfortunately poverty simple does not breed democracy. After Baby Doc was turfed, they couldn't seem to produce an effective government. Even golden boy Aristide turned out to be a dirty player (depending on who you ask). One thing is clear, Aristide did not deliver the goods for most Haitians.

So we'll go in, help bury the dead, rebuild some infrastructure, try to create a functional government. Our politicians will get their photo ops, and, like you said, in a few years, Haiti will be forgotten again, except for all the bitching by the Mr. Canada's of the world that these French-speaking blacks keep invading our country.

[eyeball]

Thanks for that insightful post. Good to see someone who knows a bit about the country face to face speaking up.

Haiti has been a horrible mess for over a century. Interference in its affairs often as not has lead to things getting worse.

I don't know how you go about fixing a place like Haiti. We can't even figure it out for Afghanistan, a place that, as poor as it is, has a better standard of living. We could invest billions and rebuild the place, but there has to be some will on the part of Haitians to make a responsible, democratic government.

I'd say the first step to fixing a place like Haiti, that is, like other places that western interference has wrecked, is to begin apologizing to them. It's us that lack the will to take this first step towards acknowledgement.

It's good to see that more ordinary westerners are willing to acknowledge how much the sins of our governments and corporations have contributed to the growing number of failed and faltering states there are in the world. The question is how do we get our governments and corporations to acknowledge and address these sins?

In the horror of this latest tragedy one positive thing will happen. It took down the corupt government-in effect Haiti has no government now. The people might stand a chance now.

I just wonder what sort of tragedy it will take to give us the chance to rebuild our governments so they too behave better in the future.

Edited January 15, 2010 by eyeball

[Argus]

According to this article: ...even though much of the infrastructure was built by American companies, it was allowed to rot through a combination of corruption and bureaucratic ineptitude.

Gee, kind of sounds like Canadian native reserves then.

[DogOnPorch]

I'd say the first step to fixing a place like Haiti, that is, like other places that western interference has wrecked, is to begin apologizing to them. It's us that lack the will to take this first step towards acknowledgement.

It's good to see that more ordinary westerners are willing to acknowledge how much the sins of our governments and corporations have contributed to the growing number of failed and faltering states there are in the world. The question is how do we get our governments and corporations to acknowledge and address these sins?

I just wonder what sort of tragedy it will take to give us the chance to rebuild our governments so they too behave better in the future.

Oh please...give it a rest. The only 'growth industry' in Haiti is mafia kidnappings. No matter one's situation, to resort to major crime is a personal choice...not the fault of our government.

[Smallc]

It has been reported by CP and CTV that Canada has put 800 troops on standby for deployment to Haiti. If they are deployed, that would bring Canada's commitment to at least 1500 people (up from the current 700). The US has 10 000 people on the ground and off shore.

http://montreal.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100115/mtl_haiti_soldiers100115/20100115/?hub=MontrealHome

Edited January 15, 2010 by Smallc

[eyeball]

The only 'growth industry' in Haiti is mafia kidnappings.

If so, it's an outgrowth of the rampant corruption and dysfunction that's followed in the wake of more invasions and interference by western governments than just about any place on Earth. We certainly can't blame the east or communists for this puppy.

No matter one's situation, to resort to major crime is a personal choice...not the fault of our government.

That's absolutely true, just like invading other smaller countries and installing dictators there is a choice...that's certainly not my fault...or your's for that matter, but we're both still responsible for all the consequences.

Give what a rest?

Edited January 15, 2010 by eyeball

[ToadBrother]

I'd say the first step to fixing a place like Haiti, that is, like other places that western interference has wrecked, is to begin apologizing to them. It's us that lack the will to take this first step towards acknowledgement.

Acknowledgment and a sack of farts will buy you a loud stink.

What these people need is help, not hand-wringing. Hand-wringing is what impotent people who want to soothe their consciences, but have not a single practical idea.

Edited January 15, 2010 by ToadBrother

[ToadBrother]

It has been reported by CP and CTV that Canada has put 800 troops on standby for deployment to Haiti. If they are deployed, that would bring Canada's commitment to at least 1500 people (up from the current 700). The US has 10 000 people on the ground and off shore.

http://montreal.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100115/mtl_haiti_soldiers100115/20100115/?hub=MontrealHome

By the sounds of it some looting is going on, so I think armed troops are going to need to be deployed to guard food and supply depots. A lot of these people are on to their third day without food or water, and this is prime conditions for riots and the like, which would only further block getting food and water to these people. There is nothing more dangerous than a hungry human being that has passed into despair.

[eyeball]

What these people need is help, not hand-wringing. Hand-wringing is what impotent people who want to soothe their consciences, but have not a single practical idea.

Well since you're the one who started wringing your hands about fixing Haiti first...smell you later I guess.

[eyeball]

There is nothing more dangerous than a hungry human being that has passed into despair.

I bet a failed state is.

[bush_cheney2004]

I'd say the first step to fixing a place like Haiti, that is, like other places that western interference has wrecked, is to begin apologizing to them. It's us that lack the will to take this first step towards acknowledgement.

Yes....all of Haiti's problems, including earthquake damage can be directly traced back to 1953. [/sarcasm]

It's good to see that more ordinary westerners are willing to acknowledge how much the sins of our governments and corporations have contributed to the growing number of failed and faltering states there are in the world. The question is how do we get our governments and corporations to acknowledge and address these sins?

I know...I know....a Truth Commission! Yea...that will fix everything.

I just wonder what sort of tragedy it will take to give us the chance to rebuild our governments so they too behave better in the future.

Nuclear war?

[DogOnPorch]

Nuclear war?

Let them all go to hell, except Cave 76!

---Melvin "Mel" Kaminsky/Brooks

That's absolutely true, just like invading other smaller countries and installing dictators there is a choice...that's certainly not my fault...or your's for that matter, but we're both still responsible for all the consequences.

Flog yourself 1000 times in in penance for your guilt.

Edited January 16, 2010 by DogOnPorch

[Melanie_]

For those wondering why Haiti has so many challenges,

has the answer. Apparently they made a pact with the devil 200 years ago, and Satan helped them to get out from under the heel of the French...

[Argus]

I'd say the first step to fixing a place like Haiti, that is, like other places that western interference has wrecked, is to begin apologizing to them. It's us that lack the will to take this first step towards acknowledgement.

It's good to see that more ordinary westerners are willing to acknowledge how much the sins of our governments and corporations have contributed to the growing number of failed and faltering states there are in the world.

Excuse me, Mr. Eyeball, would you care to explain why The Dominican Republica, which sits on the same island as Haiti, is doing so very much better than it's neighbor? Why do its buildings not collapse at the first hint of a breeze? Why does it have a flourishing tourist industry, education, health care, and technology?

Of course, I understand that, unlike Haiti, there was never any colonialism in the Dominican Republic. Perhaps that's it. Or perhaps it's because God decreed that no American multinationals should ever make any effort to interfere there, or to bribe the government into letting them make bigger profits. And of course, the United States never took over the country itself for any reason. But still and all, you'd think there would be something which approaches equity in the way the two neighbors have developed, and that doesn't appear to be the case.

Edited January 15, 2010 by Argus

[bush_cheney2004]

Of course, I understand that, unlike Haiti, there was never any colonialism in the Dominican Republic. Perhaps that's it. Or perhaps it's because God decreed that no American multinationals should ever make any effort to interfere there, or to bribe the government into letting them make bigger profits. And of course, the United States never took over the country itself for any reason....

Hispanola has been a USMC "vacation" destination for over 100 years. The Dominicans figured it out eventually...Haiti..not so much.

Edited January 16, 2010 by bush_cheney2004

[eyeball]

Excuse me, Mr. Eyeball, would you care to explain why The Dominican Republica, which sits on the same island as Haiti, is doing so very much better than it's neighbor?

Obviously a little skill but I'd have to say a lot of luck too given their own violent and often malevolent past dictatorships and foreign interventions.

I never said every single country the west diddled with turned into a basket case - there's certainly nothing to justify pointing at exceptions and using them as a basis for a blanket denial of culpability in the one's that did or will.

[Smallc]

So apparently Canada will be sending 1000 soldiers now (Edit: that may be including DART, so it may be the same number as reported before).

http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100115/haiti_ships_100115/20100115/?hub=TorontoNewHome

Edited January 16, 2010 by Smallc

[August1991]

Haiti has been a horrible mess for over a century. Interference in its affairs often as not has lead to things getting worse.

ToadBrother, I think that you too have hit the nail.

The dogooders (interference) in Haiti have caused more harm than good.

[blueblood]

ToadBrother, I think that you too have hit the nail.

The dogooders (interference) in Haiti have caused more harm than good.

The sad thing is this country will be a mess after this cleanup.

Nice to see you came around to my European food subsidies (dogooders) causing more harm in Africa than good.

To sound crass, there's going to be a load of money being burned through going through this.

[bush_cheney2004]

Loading up at Trenton....gotta love that new CC-177 Globemaster smell!

http://images.ctv.ca/archives/CTVNews/img2/20100115/600_dnf_haiti_aid2_100115.jpg

[Smallc]

It is an amazing vehicle. I've never spoken badly of it or the decision to purchase though. I was quite disheartened by our slow response to the Asian Tsunami.....even if that wasn't completely the fault of equipment. Like I said, the only thing we don't have that I would have liked is a functional supply ship to get more to Haiti by sea. I hope this acts as a push for the JSS project which is only beginning to get back off the ground.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, I don't think we could have done this in the past. A battle-group at war, a battle-group preparing to go to war, a battle-group (and more) preparing to for the olympics and the G8/G20, and what they're calling a battle-group light about to ship out to Haiti...as well as about 6 or 7 ships at sea on various mission and small peacekeeping obligations around the world.....something like 10 000 deployed personnel all at one time. The dark days of the military are definitely over. I'm glad we can do so much to help so many.

[August1991]

It is an amazing vehicle. I've never spoken badly of it or the decision to purchase though. I was quite disheartened by our slow response to the Asian Tsunami.....

Engineers. They love technical questions. They want to know numbers, and specifications.

Engineers are looking at this as a technical problem to solve.

I learned to respect the wonderful English expression: "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink." No dogooder can make a horse drink. IOW, the people in Haiti must solve their problems their own way.

Edited January 16, 2010 by August1991

[Smallc]

I don't think this is the time for that kind of talk.

[Moonlight Graham]

I can't even begin to imagine the horrors that the people of Haiti are experiencing right now. My thoughts go out to them.

[bush_cheney2004]

I don't think this is the time for that kind of talk.

Agreed...it is called a "disaster" for a reason. The press is hyping expectations and criticism for a situation that has no immediate solution regardless of resources, just as we saw in Indonesia or New Orleans. The only quiet and order is at the landfill where trucks are dumping the dead.