NDP/Leftist/Green Hypocrisy

[August1991]

Green Party Leader Elizabeth May is in Venice today. Before that she and her teenage daughter, Victoria Cate, were in Vienna taking in a performance of the Nutcracker at the Opera House.

The leader and her daughter, who were in Copenhagen last week for the climate change summit, decided to remain in Europe for the holidays and will be in Florence for Christmas. That’s because Ms. May wanted to show her daughter (while they had the opportunity) the grand cities of the continent.

Of course, to reduce their carbon footprint, the two are traveling by train with Eurail passes. But Ms. May is never really far away from Canada and Canadian politics.

G&M

NDP Leader Jack Layton, who's campaigning as the defender of public health care, had surgery at a private clinic in the 1990s, The Canadian Press has learned.

Layton had hernia surgery at the Shouldice Hospital, a private facility in the Toronto suburb of Thornhill, while he was serving as a Toronto city councillor. The NDP leader said he wasn't aware the clinic was private when he went for his surgery in the mid-1990s.

CTV

David Suzuki: I love Kitsilano and Vancouver, but there are too many people and too many cars. I think we can have greater density if we made the city much more hostile to cars. The cars have made our city unattractive, and thus I like to spend more of my time in a smaller place at Quanta [ed, Quadra] Island where we also have a home.

Link

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I am tired of this "Do what I say, not what I do." If these people truly believed what they say, if Suzuki really believed that we face an environmental hecatomb, he would not own two homes.

For example, Churchill, despite his faults, when he believed that the world faced evil in the 1930s, spoke alone against the impending evil of Treblinka.

It is easy for Layton and Suzuki to preach to the conventional choir.

It is hard to oppose the politically correct, conventional wisdom.

Edited December 24, 2009 by August1991

[Michael Hardner]

G&M

CTV

Link

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I am tired of this "Do what I say, not what I do." If these people truly believed what they say, if Suzuki really believed that we face an environmental hecatomb, he would not own two homes.

For example, Churchill, despite his faults, when he believed that the world faced evil in the 1930s, spoke alone against the impending evil of Treblinka.

It is easy for Layton and Suzuki to preach to the conventional choir.

It is hard to oppose the politically correct, conventional wisdom.

There are some good points here, but the message still stands.

As for Layton, Shouldice was the hospital that Ontario patients were sent to for hernia operations at that time - he didn't choose the hospital over a public facility so that accusation is frivolous.

[Smallc]

And, it was paid for by the public purse, and since we have single payer healthcare and not socialized medicine, it isn't even a real issue.

[William Ashley]

May - So what?

Layton - Hospitals are private corporations with private earning employees anyway.

Suzuki - What is wrong with having more than one home if you need one for your life?

[Smallc]

Layton - Hospitals are private corporations with private earning employees anyway.

Most hopsitals are actually not for profit or charity. They can't earn a profit, even if their employees can make money.

[William Ashley]

Most hopsitals are actually not for profit or charity. They can't earn a profit, even if their employees can make money.

Yeah all those doctors and nurses arn't making any money. Look at their pay rates... while they and their unions have pushed to earn that much... it is that and the high costs of medical equipment and medicine that is driving medical costs so high. Fact is they ARE PRIVATE CORPORATIONS... whether they are nfp or not means little difference to their expenses. They do have earnings and if this is translated into pay rates instead of back payments to the provience then that is still the tax payers dollars to support a private corporation they have no say in.

[Smallc]

Yeah all those doctors and nurses arn't making any money.

Ummm, read what I wrote again. The doctors and nurses can (and should) make money. The hospitals can't. They have to spend every penny they get.

[Moonbox]

Suzuki - What is wrong with having more than one home if you need one for your life?

He doesn't need two homes. Nobody does. Suzuki preaches about lowering our carbon footprint and not consuming as much as we do, yet he lives in two different places. Quadra is a quaint and very pretty island, so I get it, but it still is something to nitpick an environmentalist when they are living and commuting to and from several different residences.

[kimmy]

Suzuki - What is wrong with having more than one home if you need one for your life?

He is human, and should remain in areas with "greater density" areas with the rest of the humans. His extra home on Quadra Island is despoiling natural space that could be used for nesting by pygmy spotted owls.

He doesn't need two homes. Nobody does. Suzuki preaches about lowering our carbon footprint and not consuming as much as we do, yet he lives in two different places. Quadra is a quaint and very pretty island, so I get it, but it still is something to nitpick an environmentalist when they are living and commuting to and from several different residences.

Indeed. The buttholes object to people commuting farther than a few blocks to get to work... and yet here he is, with a superfluous second residence whose only purpose is to be far away from where he works. You can't argue that humans must strive to live in "greater density" and then turn around and live in a spare house on Quadra Island so that you can get away from all that icky density.

What a crappy role-model this douchebag turned out to be.

-k

[Battletoads]

Let's attack the man instead of the argument. Hur Dee Durrr...

[Wild Bill]

Let's attack the man instead of the argument. Hur Dee Durrr...

Going by the opening post, I thought the actions of the "NDP/Leftist/Green" hypocrites WERE the argument!

[Argus]

Let's not forget Jean Charest, going to Europe, pompously demanding Ottawa cut back on emissions and condemning Alberta's "tar sands" while eagerly counting the billions in welfare ... er transfer payments from Alberta every year.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Let's not forget Jean Charest, going to Europe, pompously demanding Ottawa cut back on emissions and condemning Alberta's "tar sands" while eagerly counting the billions in welfare ... er transfer payments from Alberta every year.

Don't worry Argus, out in Alberta we don't forget.

[Machjo]

G&M

CTV

Link

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I am tired of this "Do what I say, not what I do." If these people truly believed what they say, if Suzuki really believed that we face an environmental hecatomb, he would not own two homes.

For example, Churchill, despite his faults, when he believed that the world faced evil in the 1930s, spoke alone against the impending evil of Treblinka.

It is easy for Layton and Suzuki to preach to the conventional choir.

It is hard to oppose the politically correct, conventional wisdom.

I do agree with much of this. If I had to wear an ideological label, I'd probably say I' moderate left. However, I do accept that setting an example is the most important part of the job of a politician. To take Scott Reid as an example, he's a member of the Conservative Caucus in the House, yet he's a vegetarian (since he adhere's to the consistent life ethic). As far as I know, he's the only vegetarian in the House of Commons.

We find a similar oddity in the European Parliament: a Polish Member, Margareta Handzlick, is a member of Citizen's Platform, a moderate right liberal conservative party in Poland, yet she's the only MEP who knows Esperanto. So while the Canadian left likes to talk about animal rights, we have a Conservative MP who is doing something about it in his daily life. And while the European left likes to talk about language justice in international communication in Europe, they have a conservative MEP who again has done something about it in her own life.

Now to be fair to Layton, I'd read somewhere that he usually cycles to work. If true, then kudos to him. I'm also aware of a Halifax Fairview NDP MLA Graham Steele who does in fact know English, French and Esperanto and so does not just talk about language justice, but does something about it.

Though I sympathize more with the left overall, I admit that I'd be more inclined to vote for someone like Scott Reid who puts his beliefs into daily practice than, let's say, a hamburger-guzzling PETA member. By the way, I eat vegan myself, and see no practical use for PETA, yet I remember meeting a devout PETA member who couldn't resist a good hamburger. So you tell me, who's likely to have the greatest impact on animal rights between the one who actually eats vegan and the one who just throws money at PETA while stuffing her face with hamburgers?

I think if we started voting in MPs not based on ideology but rather on the actual content of their character, we'd likely have a much better Parliament after all. After all, I'm sure Scott Reid has a better understanding of the challenges of eating vegetarian than any other MP in the House, since it's part of his daily life and experience, something he acts upon about three times a day; as I'm sure Graham Steele has a better understanding than most MLAs in Nova Scotia of how difficult it is to learn a second language and for linguistic communities to integrate into a larger community, again because he has first-hand experience of having to go out of his way to find the books or teachers, finding the time, place, etc. to study, etc.

With such first hand experience in their daily practical lives, such MPs have a better idea of the challenges facing these lifestyles and so are in a better position to propose appropriate legislation that would be practical an not just stemming from an imaginary fantasy.

[William Ashley]

Ummm, read what I wrote again. The doctors and nurses can (and should) make money. The hospitals can't. They have to spend every penny they get.

Is that is the tax payers interest? Eg. Hey lets buy this crap because we loose the money if we don't mentality?

It is insurmountable that almost half of all tax dollars 43 cents on the dollar goes to health care in Ontario... 43 cents of every tax dollar

http://www.fin.gov.on.ca/en/budget/ontariobudgets/2009/sectors/healthsh.html

Governments don't have those tax dollars... both Federal and Provincial Governments are running huge deficts, that add to irresponible debt accumulation mostly due to irresponsbile war spending.

Personally I think the health sector is overfunded and badly structured. We shouldn't have private bodies deciding how tax dollars are spent, the public should, and it shoulnd't be a private corporation. It should be a public corporation with public elections for those board seats.

There should be realistic auditing of these operations and a realistic structure to deal with REAL health emergencies vs. casual use of the health care system. There is overuse, bad management, over prescription, rampant misdiagnosis and hugely expensive procedures that need not apply. Frankly put the system is in taters because they are price gouging the tax payer, and the tax payer and the govenrment need to realize this.

Some of the statistics are stagering, (1 in 10 people having mental illness in Ontario and 1 in 5 being effected by mental illness in Canada over their lifetime, for example) and the fact is the system exists to make people reliant on the health care system, not realiant on taking care of their own health.

Edited December 25, 2009 by William Ashley

[William Ashley]

He doesn't need two homes. Nobody does.

So you are saying people who spend time in two parts of the country, or two parts of the world or two parts of a large urban area can't benefit from having two homes. Think of the commute time that can be saved, if you spend that time at a location for the weeks or month that you need. Or what if you have yet to sell one home or havn't found a buyer at a price that recoupes your investment. What if one home is a family home you have in trust? What about MP's who need a place to stay while in Ottawa and one in their riding? What about business owners for example farmers, who have a farm property with a house, but also have a home elsewhere for the winter months? What about people who carry out seasonal occupations?

Why is it that suddenly two homes is wrong? Why are homes suddenly counter the environment? What about sustainable homes? I don't see your point.

Suzuki preaches about lowering our carbon footprint and not consuming as much as we do, yet he lives in two different places.

Ok and what if one of those homes was going to just fall into disuse? I bought a home in Northern Ontario, and if I hadn't purchased it, who knows how long it would go unused. I am in a community which has a falling population rate, due to collapse of the logging industry, those homes may fall into greater disuse or seasonal disuse if/when the community lowers its population. Fact is having two homes can still lower that footprint, especially if you commute daily, or you would end up making 10 extra flights a month. For the average family true two homes likely isn't needed, but this always wont be the case for reduction of the carbon footprint, or beneficial use.

Quadra is a quaint and very pretty island, so I get it, but it still is something to nitpick an environmentalist when they are living and commuting to and from several different residences.

Commuting can add up to lost time, and an increased carbon footprint.

[Battletoads]

Going by the opening post, I thought the actions of the "NDP/Leftist/Green" hypocrites WERE the argument!

Politicians and celeberties are liars.

More news at 11.

This really a thread of its own...

Edited December 26, 2009 by Battletoads

[Shady]

I always found the NDP's so-called concern for the demise of the manufacturing sector, coupled with its support for Kyoto, and other manufacturing sector killing policies as pretty screwed up. Talk about talking out of both sides of their mouths.

[Smallc]

I wouldn't say that's correct. The NDP wants to create an economy of green manufacturing jobs, even if they have no idea how they would do that. They're not being hypocritical, they simply don't have any idea how to enact the things they wish to.

[madmax]

I wouldn't say that's correct. The NDP wants to create an economy of green manufacturing jobs, even if they have no idea how they would do that. They're not being hypocritical, they simply don't have any idea how to enact the things they wish to.

Quite frankly, the NDP cannot create a "green" manufacturing sector without creating the same conditions that Sir John A MacDonald used to create an industrial sector. The NDP are aware of that fact. The CPC & LPC are not. Green Manufacturing is a buzz word much like green jobs. However, like any kind of manufacturing, it is driven by Global Capital and if Global capital wants to build the windmills in other countries then so be it. However, other countries, including the US have protectionist policies based around certain projects that give them the upper hand in attracting new industry. Green industry has been strong for over a decade and Canada has squat and is likely to miss the boat.

Simple policies, like using tax payers monies for recycling tires in Canada vs subsidizing the US to recycle the tires is nationally/provincially smart business. Ontario has just changed the rules on subsidies and is drawing that industry back into Ontario with a simple, "you recycle here", to get the tax break and subsidies.

If Ontario were to build something like Windmills, (lots of good manufacturing opportunity), the problem lies in other companies buying said windmill producer and relocating production.

It doesn't matter what colour the manufacturing ... the choice of capital remains the same.

However, any government can put hooks into the manufacturing sector and one hook is with a Green Agenda.

No different then our protected sectors in Banking & Insurance, which are highly successful because they are protected.

Edited December 28, 2009 by madmax

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Quite frankly, the NDP cannot create a "green" manufacturing sector without creating the same conditions that Sir John A MacDonald used to create an industrial sector. The NDP are aware of that fact. The CPC & LPC are not. Green Manufacturing is a buzz word much like green jobs. However, like any kind of manufacturing, it is driven by Global Capital and if Global capital wants to build the windmills in other countries then so be it. However, other countries, including the US have protectionist policies based around certain projects that give them the upper hand in attracting new industry. Green industry has been strong for over a decade and Canada has squat and is likely to miss the boat.

Simple policies, like using tax payers monies for recycling tires in Canada vs subsidizing the US to recycle the tires is nationally/provincially smart business. Ontario has just changed the rules on subsidies and is drawing that industry back into Ontario with a simple, "you recycle here", to get the tax break and subsidies.

If Ontario were to build something like Windmills, (lots of good manufacturing opportunity), the problem lies in other companies buying said windmill producer and relocating production.

It doesn't matter what colour the manufacturing ... the choice of capital remains the same.

However, any government can put hooks into the manufacturing sector and one hook is with a Green Agenda.

No different then our protected sectors in Banking & Insurance, which are highly successful because they are protected.

Banking and insurance.....The two biggest scams ever created.

[madmax]

Banking and insurance.....The two biggest scams ever created.

Heh, heh, heh!!! Totally new thread title needed for that comment. LOL.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Heh, heh, heh!!! Totally new thread title needed for that comment. LOL.

Sorry about that....

[August1991]

Politicians and celeberties are liars.

More news at 11.

This really a thread of its own...

Politicians and celebrities are liars? No, Leftists and Green politicians are liars - on something critical. (Social conservative politicians are apparently just moral hypocrites.)

If Elizabeth May truly believed that the planet faced environmental destruction, she would not take her daughter on a tour of Europe. (Did Churchill take his children to a Hitler Youth meeting in the 1930s?)

As to Layton, he (and the NDP) argue against private delivery of publicly funded health care. Yet, Layton benefitted from such care.

The Greens have recently adopted catastrophic vocabulary. Suzuki wants to put people like Harper in jail. I call their bluff.

Let's not forget Jean Charest, going to Europe, pompously demanding Ottawa cut back on emissions and condemning Alberta's "tar sands" while eagerly counting the billions in welfare ... er transfer payments from Alberta every year.

I'm no defender of Charest, but fair point Argus.

Then again, Quebec by chance relies on hydro. As Parizeau said, equalization is 24 beer a week.

The State is a seductive beast.

Edited January 3, 2010 by August1991

[ToadBrother]

If Elizabeth May truly believed that the planet faced environmental destruction, she would not take her daughter on a tour of Europe. (Did Churchill take his children to a Hitler Youth meeting in the 1930s?)

Everything else aside (and I personally think May is probably the dumbest would-be politician to come on the Federal scene in living memory), what you wrote may stand as being the most bizarre non sequitur I`ve seen on this site.