Sir Bandelot Posted September 6, 2009 Report Share Posted September 6, 2009 Obama not firm on public health insurance plan WASHINGTON -- The Obama administration's bottom line on a government health insurance option blurred Sunday as White House officials stressed support but stopped of short of calling it a must-have part of an overhaul. The biggest challenge Obama faces in his prime-time address is to take ownership of health care legislation that until now has been shaped by political conflicts in Congress. Lawmakers return this week from a summer break that saw eroding public support for an overhaul and contentious town hall meetings in their districts. On Friday, during a call with prominent liberal House members, Obama refused to be pinned down on the public plan, a participant told The Associated Press. "It was unclear as to whether the public option is on or off the table," said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the issue. Independents who helped propel Obama to the presidency are increasingly skeptical about his direction on health care. Obama demonstrates a classic example of failure in leadership. By his desire to "reach out" to his enemies, to make concessions and find common ground, he gives up the very change agenda he won his presidency on. What we got here is no change at all. Also seems that in a US democracy, he who shouts loudest wins the debate. The townhall mobs have had their effect on the American psyche, and Obamas. Well, at least he's a good dancer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted September 6, 2009 Report Share Posted September 6, 2009 he gives up the very change agenda he won his presidency on. He didn't win his presidency on a public health option. The fact is, poll after poll indicates that close to 80% of voters are satisfied with their health insurance. There are issues people would like addressed. Like portability, pre-existing condition discrimination, as well as tort reform. But those things can be addressed without a government health insurance option. If he proposed doing things incrementaly, instead of all at once, I think he'd find an easier path. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkman Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 And if ever ever ever there was a wrong time to try to ram through a giant spending program of any kind whatsoever, that time would be now when their economy is in the worst crisis since the depression. How detached from reality can you get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 He didn't win his presidency on a public health option. The fact is, poll after poll indicates that close to 80% of voters are satisfied with their health insurance. There are issues people would like addressed. Like portability, pre-existing condition discrimination, as well as tort reform. But those things can be addressed without a government health insurance option. If he proposed doing things incrementaly, instead of all at once, I think he'd find an easier path. That is not what poll after poll says. Poll after poll says people would like the option of a public options, and that most people are satisfied with their doctor, however feel reform needs to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BubberMiley Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 And if ever ever ever there was a wrong time to try to ram through a giant spending program of any kind whatsoever, that time would be now when their economy is in the worst crisis since the depression. How detached from reality can you get. So you think they should pull out of Afghanistan and Iraq, considering they spend more on those wars in one year than Obama proposes to spend on health care in 10? Quote "I think it's fun watching the waldick get all excited/knickers in a knot over something." -scribblet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 the public option is still there and it's a very astute move on his part, he down played it to an insignificant size, a minor option amidst all the giant private schemes...yet he knows full well that if he leaves it as an option and if it's well run it will grow and displace private insurance over time...it's a common sense thing thing that appeals to the bottom line, if the consumer can get good healthcare from the public option at prices similar to what we have in Canada why pay twice as much for private insurance schemes Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 ...it's a common sense thing thing that appeals to the bottom line, if the consumer can get good healthcare from the public option at prices similar to what we have in Canada why pay twice as much for private insurance schemes Because Hawaii and Massachusetts have already tried this with initial success but growing cost issues as people game the system. There ain't no free lunch...not even in Canada. Quote Economics trumps Virtue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Bandelot Posted September 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 the public option is still there and it's a very astute move on his part, he down played it to an insignificant size, a minor option amidst all the giant private schemes...yet he knows full well that if he leaves it as an option and if it's well run it will grow and displace private insurance over time...it's a common sense thing thing that appeals to the bottom line, if the consumer can get good healthcare from the public option at prices similar to what we have in Canada why pay twice as much for private insurance schemes We heard some fancy talk, now lets see some fancy walk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 Because Hawaii and Massachusetts have already tried this with initial success but growing cost issues as people game the system. There ain't no free lunch...not even in Canada. even our medicare had and still has problems nothing is perfect,you learn and correct as it grows...no one assumes anything is free but I sooner pay $2,500-3,000 in taxes for full coverage in Canada than double that amount in the USA and battling with insurance companies everytime I had a claim... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 We heard some fancy talk, now lets see some fancy walk. it's not up to Obama is it??? if others stall legislation to please insurance providers what is he to do.... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 even our medicare had and still has problems nothing is perfect,you learn and correct as it grows...no one assumes anything is free but I sooner pay $2,500-3,000 in taxes for full coverage in Canada than double that amount in the USA and battling with insurance companies everytime I had a claim... That's fine, but Canadians with means also have other options, with or without insurance. Obama wants to use the force of government to increase pool sizes, including fines for non-participation. That's not going to fly in the USA. Quote Economics trumps Virtue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 That's fine, but Canadians with means also have other options, with or without insurance. Obama wants to use the force of government to increase pool sizes, including fines for non-participation. That's not going to fly in the USA. sure it will, the insurance companies will be on side with it... no one likes income tax but there are fines for non-participation there as well Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 sure it will, the insurance companies will be on side with it...no one likes income tax but there are fines for non-participation there as well I love income taxes.....and license fees....and property taxes.....because I use government services. Health care is not a government service...or right. Quote Economics trumps Virtue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Bandelot Posted September 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 Health care is not a government service...or right. It is up here. Welcome to our forum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 It is up here. Welcome to our forum No it's not.....insurance is not the same as the provider services. Health care is not a right in Canada.....sorry. Quote Economics trumps Virtue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkman Posted September 11, 2009 Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 So you think they should pull out of Afghanistan and Iraq, considering they spend more on those wars in one year than Obama proposes to spend on health care in 10? No, I believe you shouldn't introduce a giant new spending program when your economy is in the worst crisis since the great depression. I thought I said that already. Your faith in Obama's numbers is cute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmy Posted September 11, 2009 Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 Obama caves Racist! Racist! Black people in America live in houses, not caves, Sir, and in the Obama's case, they live in a pretty white house that you may have seen on TV! Invoking the image of a cave-dwelling savage is just typical of the kind of racially divisive language that Barack Obama's enemies are using to inflame tensions and undermine this Presidency! So, why don't you go back to the Bandelot caves, you knuckle-dragging neanderthal, and don't come out until you've learned to paint with all the colors of the wind, and-- I'm sorry, I apologize. I couldn't resist. Right after the election, I had suggested that since turning the economy around and getting out of Iraq were promises that would take a long time to deliver on, Healthcare was something he could work on as a nearer-term goal as an achievement he could point to. Boy, did I screw up that one! At present, it looks like turning around the economy is the closest, getting out of Iraq could happen eventually, and healthcare could happen when hell freezes over. A nearer-term goal as an achievement he could point to? uh, I dunno... he did a really great job throwing out the ceremonial first pitch of the baseball season, right? I mean, that's something, right? -k Quote (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted September 11, 2009 Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 I can't help but agree with you Kimmy. I mean, he makes really pretty speeches, but what has he actually done? Not much in my opinion. I head someone on the radio talking bout there being this group of people that always has to lose all of the time. They said that in Washington, it seems that it has to be the Democrats, even when they have a majority in both houses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pliny Posted September 11, 2009 Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 uh, I dunno... he did a really great job throwing out the ceremonial first pitch of the baseball season, right? I mean, that's something, right? -k Part of his back up plan, no doubt! The President is a do-gooder of the highest order. He knows what everyone wants. People just don't know they want what he wants for them. He is only trying to help them achieve what he knows they want to achieve and give everyone a chance to achieve their dreams. I don't believe he has caved on the health care plan. He never even acknowledged there may be some citizens that don't want government run health care. He doesn't acknowledge any of the suggestions made by Republicans or the public. But he says he wants to listen to their concerns which means once he has listened if he can't convince them otherwise he is going ahead anyway. He called the time an "opportunity" that can't be missed? What does that mean? Quote I want to be in the class that ensures the classless society remains classless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted September 11, 2009 Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 I can't help but agree with you Kimmy. I mean, he makes really pretty speeches, but what has he actually done? Not much in my opinion. I head someone on the radio talking bout there being this group of people that always has to lose all of the time. They said that in Washington, it seems that it has to be the Democrats, even when they have a majority in both houses. what's he done??? saved the auto industry, prevented the world's largest economy from tipping into bankruptcy....ya you're right nothing important... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted September 11, 2009 Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 There's no saying that GB wouldn't have done the same things. It was actually he that started the bailouts. I can't even give Obama credit for that. Obama offered the American people hope, and he hasn't delivered that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topaz Posted September 11, 2009 Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 No it's not.....insurance is not the same as the provider services. Health care is not a right in Canada.....sorry. It IS a right if you are paying taxes to pay for it, when you needed it sometime in the future. Too many Americans with the HMOs, have to live with the decisions of the insurance companies if they will pay for certains treatments and if not, and the person can't pay, they die! HMO's are in business to MAKE money not to help people necessarily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted September 11, 2009 Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 It IS a right if you are paying taxes to pay for it, when you needed it sometime in the future. Too many Americans with the HMOs, have to live with the decisions of the insurance companies if they will pay for certains treatments and if not, and the person can't pay, they die! HMO's are in business to MAKE money not to help people necessarily. Sorry, but believe it or not, people die in Canada too. You do not have a right to a heart-lung transplant, just a right to wait in line with everyone else (that's why some Canadians go abroad instead). Health care is not a right. Quote Economics trumps Virtue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topaz Posted September 11, 2009 Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 Sorry, but believe it or not, people die in Canada too. You do not have a right to a heart-lung transplant, just a right to wait in line with everyone else (that's why some Canadians go abroad instead).Health care is not a right. During the election of Mike Harris, Bob Rae warned what could happen to healthcare in Ontario and Harris nearly destroyed it! Even though I don't know what is happening to the libs right now, they did bring back the healthcare system from were it was under Harris. You have to asked why is there waiting lines? It the politicans that screw it up and they don't have to wait do they? As many Americans have said on Canadians radio shows, I rather wait than pay 30,000 for the treatment and that woman was trying to become a Canadian citizen. The US spends more money on healthcare than most countries and whose getting the money...HMOs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted September 12, 2009 Report Share Posted September 12, 2009 Making a deal 101: When 2 sides can't agree on something, then compromise. This healthcare reform is a very divided issue. If he proposes exactly what he wants, Congress will likely vote it down. I think Obama knows that he may need to make some compromises to the plan so that it can actually get passed & into law. Better to get a plan through that has some of the improvements you want than to get nothing done at all. Quote "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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