"Birthers" movement problem for GOP

[jdobbin]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677/vp/32067291#32067291

Rush Limbaugh was back at it saying that there remains doubts about Obama's citizenship.

There is an increasingly loud group that continue to believe he is not a U.S. citizen.

[Guest TrueMetis]

That's hilarious. How did he fool all those high up people but couldn't fool a bunch of hick conspiracy theorists?

[Michael Hardner]

I just finished reading The Paranoid Style in American Politics by Richard Hofstadter.

Those crazy theories have a long history in American, maybe back to the revolution itself. And not just 'truthers' or 'birthers'. There was a large movement to move America to the silver standard at the end of the 19th century that had all the hallmarks of these conspiracy movements.

9/11, JFK, KKK, anti-Catholic, anti-Mason, "know nothings" ...

Freedom, it seems, makes people paranoid.

[Riverwind]

There is an increasingly loud group that continue to believe he is not a U.S. citizen.

Even if Rush believes it is a complete fiction he probably sees it a useful propaganda tool since even false allegations can undermine a politician's image. It is really no worse than the various deceptions that Obama repeats in order to promote his policies.

As far as the substance of the issue it is possible that Obama's parent's falsely registered his birth in Hawaii. However, proving such a claim is impossible since all of the legal records will support the claim that Obama was born in the US. More importantly, proving that he knew of his parent's deception would be even tougher.

[eyeball]

I just finished reading The Paranoid Style in American Politics by Richard Hofstadter.

Those crazy theories have a long history in American, maybe back to the revolution itself. And not just 'truthers' or 'birthers'. There was a large movement to move America to the silver standard at the end of the 19th century that had all the hallmarks of these conspiracy movements.

9/11, JFK, KKK, anti-Catholic, anti-Mason, "know nothings" ...

Freedom, it seems, makes people paranoid.

I suspect misperception is what really leads most people towards paranoia. Lets face it, given that some 75% or more of people on Earth believe in things like gods and god knows what else, much of our species is ripe for the picking. These sorts of cases, like the belief that Saddam was behind 9/11 for example, seem to suggest that someone or something is knowingly cultivating within society a capacity to suspend disbelief. If I was paranoid and didn't know any better I'd say someone is putting stupid pills in America's water supply.

[Shady]

The Birthers are just like the Truthers. The complete idiots who believe 9/11 was an inside job. Although, most of those idiots reside on the left. Thankfully, they're the Dems problem.

[eyeball]

The birthers and truthers are everyone's problem, but more to the point its actually the ability of politicians and political parties to manipulate this sort of ignorance towards their own ends, which in the scheme of things are a little petty to say the least. Especially when compared to what could be at stake should superstition ever rule the day again, assuming it doesn't already.

[punked]

The Birthers are just like the Truthers. The complete idiots who believe 9/11 was an inside job. Although, most of those idiots reside on the left. Thankfully, they're the Dems problem.

I don't think the Libertarians are a left leaning party.

[Shady]

The birthers and truthers are everyone's problem, but more to the point its actually the ability of politicians and political parties to manipulate this sort of ignorance towards their own ends, which in the scheme of things are a little petty to say the least. Especially when compared to what could be at stake should superstition ever rule the day again, assuming it doesn't already.

It's not necessarily politicians manipulating ignorance. It's the product of free speech. Most conspiracy theories originate from private citizens, not public officials. There's always going to be a small fraction of people who believe something out of the mainstream. It has nothing to do with politics.

[eyeball]

Some conspiracy theories do come from politicians though and even governments. Again the Saddam/9/11 link is a prime example and who could ever forget McCarthyism? Sometimes politics has everything to do with conspiracy theories which more often than not results in a significant fraction of the population including several tens of millions of people believing them.

There is clearly just too much capacity for suspending disbelief in many societies and this is a serious problem, for everyone.

Edited July 23, 2009 by eyeball

[Bonam]

Some conspiracy theories do come from politicians though and even governments. Again the Saddam/9/11 link is a prime example and who could ever forget McCarthyism? Sometimes politics has everything to do with conspiracy theories which more often than not results in a significant fraction of the population including several tens of millions of people believing them.

There is clearly just too much capacity for suspending disbelief in many societies and this is a serious problem, for everyone.

Humans have been trained to suspend disbelief and those who have failed to do so have been weeded out of the gene pool for hundreds of generations; perhaps even thousands of generations, though we can't know for sure. Being able to blindly believe preposterous lies may well be an evolved human survival trait.

[scribblet]

I do wonder at some of these whacko theories, and if there isn't something that can be published to dispel them once and for all.

http://www.newsmax.com/insidecover/obama_b...omo_code=83F2-1

Chris Matthews Wrong on Obama Birth Certificate

MSNBC's Chris Matthews got into a heated exchange with a congressman on his show Tuesday as he revisited the question of President Barack Obama's birth certificate — or lack of one.

Rep. John Campbell, R-Calif., is a co-sponsor of the so-called "birther bill," which would require future presidential candidates to provide a copy of their original birth certificates.

“Birthers” are those who believe Obama is not qualified to be president, based on a belief that he was not born in the United States.

Campbell is not a “birther” and never has claimed that Obama was born outside the United States or should be disqualified from being president.

On the show, Matthews seemingly undermined claims by some that Obama never has released his birth certificate, producing what Matthews said was a true copy of it.

But Matthews made a false claim. Obama never has released his actual birth certificate. He has released another document, which state authorities often provide in lieu of a birth certificate, called a certificate of live birth.

Matthews on Tuesday said Campbell was "playing to the crazies" by supporting the "crazy" bill, and the congressman shot back that it was all about "putting the matter to rest."

Matthews also accused Campbell of "feeding the wacko wing of your party," and held up what he called a copy of the supposed Obama birth certificate.

Case closed?

The indisputable fact is that Obama has not released his birth certificate, which the state of Hawaii issues for all citizens born there.

Instead, his campaign has released only his certificate of live birth from the state of Hawaii, which is a document that offers a summarized version of the birth certificate.

Why not release all of the documents in question and put a stop to it, allowing it to fester doesn't help anyone.

[punked]

I do wonder at some of these whacko theories, and if there isn't something that can be published to dispel them once and for all.

http://www.newsmax.com/insidecover/obama_b...omo_code=83F2-1

Chris Matthews Wrong on Obama Birth Certificate

Why not release all of the documents in question and put a stop to it, allowing it to fester doesn't help anyone.

Any document from the a government in the US should be fine evidence. If the state a Hawaii says he was born their I think a little bit more trust worthy then you.

[lily]

Any document from the a government in the US should be fine evidence. If the state a Hawaii says he was born their I think a little bit more trust worthy then you.

I agree. Both the full and the summarized versions are official gov't documents.

[eyeball]

Humans have been trained to suspend disbelief and those who have failed to do so have been weeded out of the gene pool for hundreds of generations; perhaps even thousands of generations, though we can't know for sure. Being able to blindly believe preposterous lies may well be an evolved human survival trait.

Being able to convince people to blindly believe preposterous lies has proven a good survival trait for certain institutions and groups over the generations but as far as our species goes I'd call this capacity a turn down a blind evolutionary alley with a dead end.

[kuzadd]

Hmm, is this about republicans or rush limbaugh??

As much as I think he, rush limbaugh, is a bloated junkie,( arrested for oxycontin abuse or hillbilly heroin) and is most definitely a mouthpiece for the republicans in the US.

None of that is here or there, as doubt lies on both sides of the political spectrum

Former Hilary Clinton supporter Phil Berg, lawyer

a former gubernatorial and senatorial candidate, former chair of the Democratic Party in Montgomery (PA) County, former member of the Democratic State Committee, and former Deputy Attorney General of Pennsylvania.

and he says he is doing this for the health of the democratic party.

so whatever seems there are questions from both parties

[lily]

Who did Obama run against for the Dem nomination again?

Think that might factor into this guy's "questions"?

[msj]

Why not release all of the documents in question and put a stop to it, allowing it to fester doesn't help anyone.

I watched the Jon Stewart show last night and I think he had the best response to this nonsense.

If you go to The Comedy Network and watch clip one from July 22, 2009 you will find an appropriate amount of evidence.

If only the media would pay attention (eh, Lou Dobbs?).

[Shady]

It is kind of odd that Obama won't release his actual birth certificate, and instead, released his certificate of live birth, whatever that means. Sounds orwellian.

[kuzadd]

Who did Obama run against for the Dem nomination again?

Think that might factor into this guy's "questions"?

sure, anything is possible, but I just wanted to demonstrate this is not simply a republican issue. It seems to be an issue with people from both parties.

[M.Dancer]

It is kind of odd that Obama won't release his actual birth certificate, and instead, released his certificate of live birth, whatever that means. Sounds orwellian.

I didn't have a birth certificate till about 10 years ago. I did on the otherhand have a baptismal.

[lily]

What's the difference between the two, anyway? Is it like the big version vs the wallet-sized one we can get here?

[Guthrie]

every politician in America yearns to have a campaign where an opposition group wants to say he wasn't born in America --

is this a Republican issue or both party issue?? well, actually, it's a neither party issue - that is, neither party nor any representative on behalf of either party has even an official position on this beyond the obvious, "Barack Obama, having past all requirements and having won sufficient votes from the Electoral College, is the President of the United States."

neither party cares about this, only racists and closet cases consider this matter anything but a humorous footnote for history.

Is it a birth ceritificate or certificate of live birth??? does anyone take that as a serious question??? are you guys putting that up for a laugh? is there someone who seriously doesn't know they are the same thing????

I used to have three of those documents in a drawer at home--- given to me by the State of Hawaii for my kids who were born there - my daughter recently used hers to get a passport -

but, I would love to have this birthers group continue on all the way through the Obama administration - I'm sure it will get me to giggle everytime a slow news day finds one of those clowns pulling a successful publicity stunt

[lily]

Clearly your kids aren't "real" citizens.

[Shady]

is there someone who seriously doesn't know they are the same thing????

Unfortunately for you, they are NOT the same thing. How difficult is it to have a staffer to make a photocopy of Obama's birth certificate, and end the conspiracy theory? Seriously??? What is the hold up of showing a common and ordinary documentation, in which everyone has. Except apparently the President of the United States. He only has a certificate of live birth. As oppose to a certificate of dead birth If such a thing exists. Again, it seems kind of orwellian.