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"Birthers" movement problem for GOP


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Just last month, the Hawaii Department of Health confirmed to the Honolulu Star-Bulletin that the document is the only official record of the president's birth and proves he was born in that state.

That's not true. In defense of Obama, a doctor from Hawaii has stated that there's an actual birth certificate, which shows that Obama was born in Hawaii. Is he lying?

But conspiracy theorists argue that the lack of an underlying paper document (the so-called long-form birth certificate) proves a cover-up.

That ignores multiple truths including this one: Hawaii's records, like those in many states, have gone electronic, and the certification document is accepted by both the state and national government as full proof of citizenship. To insist otherwise is to embrace the notion that thousands upon thousands of Hawaiians have obtained their U.S. passports, using similar documents, fraudulently

It doesn't matter that Hawaii has gone "electronic." They didn't go electronic 30 years ago. He would have been issued a real birth certificate, not just a certificate of live birth.

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Whichever.... in the end he was born in Hawaii.

It doesn't matter that Hawaii has gone "electronic." They didn't go electronic 30 years ago. He would have been issued a real birth certificate, not just a certificate of live birth.

Are you automatically issued a birth certificate or do you have to request it?

Here, it's the latter.

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That's not true. In defense of Obama, a doctor from Hawaii has stated that there's an actual birth certificate, which shows that Obama was born in Hawaii. Is he lying?

It doesn't matter that Hawaii has gone "electronic." They didn't go electronic 30 years ago. He would have been issued a real birth certificate, not just a certificate of live birth.

How many time do you need to be told that the "certification of live birth" (that's the name of the document now issued by the State of Hawaii when asked for a copy of the birth certificate they have on file) is the ONLY document that the State of Hawaii will issue to someone requesting a certified proof of hisher birth having been registered, and that it is consered as the SAME as the original certificate held by the State as far as probative value goes/

Now, I' give you the benefit of the doubt. You may be talking about the birth certification (or certificate, if you want to use a term different than the one used in State laws) given by the State or the hospital to Obama's parents shortly after his birth. If that's the case, do you still have yours? Do your wife, your brothers, your parents still have theirs? For that matter, do you or they still hold certfied copies issued ten, fifteen years ago? Many people do not, so I presume that any certified copies now issued by the state of Hawaii is suspect, right?

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It doesn't matter that Hawaii has gone "electronic." They didn't go electronic 30 years ago. He would have been issued a real birth certificate, not just a certificate of live birth.

Mine went through the wash after I went to the passport office guess I am no longer a Canadian. You are being silly honestly he showed what the State issues you when you ask for a Birth Certificate. If you have a problem take up with Hawaii not Obama I bet they tell you your a kook and they are too busy streamlining their system and putting all their records on electronic files to deal with you.

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"certification of live birth" (that's the name of the document now issued by the State of Hawaii

Yes, I understand it's the name of the document NOW issued by the state of Hawaii. Does NOW mean 1961, or 1971, or 1981? Nope.

If that's the case, do you still have yours?

Yes I do. It's what was needed to cross the border into Michigan. The American side would always ask for a birth certificate, not a certificate of live birth.

Many people do not

Many people do. Especially older people. That's why it's strange that Obama can't or won't produce one.

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That's why it's strange that Obama can't or won't produce one.

What's strands is the length you an others will go to in order to try and criticize the president. Luckily for him, you're only making yourselves look insane.

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What's strands is the length you an others will go to in order to try and criticize the president. Luckily for him, you're only making yourselves look insane.

How am I making myself look insane? I've never questioned Obama's citizenship. I believe he's an American. I just find it rather strange that he can't produce a simple and common document. Sorry for questioning Dear Leader.

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Yes, I understand it's the name of the document NOW issued by the state of Hawaii. Does NOW mean 1961, or 1971, or 1981? Nope.

What it was called 10, 20 or 50 years ago is totally irrelevant. So is what it is called elsewhere it would still have been a certified copy of the records as kept by the government - with no more and no LESS legal value than the one issued to Obama in 2008.

Yes I do. It's what was needed to cross the border into Michigan. The American side would always ask for a birth certificate, not a certificate of live birth.

Many people do. Especially older people. That's why it's strange that Obama can't or won't produce one.

You still have the certified copy of the birth registration that was issued to your parents shortly after your birth (called a certificate here)? So do I. And many people. But many do not have it. I know somebody who used to work with the Registrar General of Ontario, dealing with sending back requests for birth certificates that were not filled properly. Hundreds a month, so you can imagine the total number. More people than not, for a number of reasons, do not have the document that their parents received. Does that mean that they have something to hide, or is it only when it's Barack Obama?

Besides, we both know that the morons would still not be satisfied. He has produced a fully legal proof that the State of hawaii has registered his birth in that State. That's good enough for the state of Hawaii, that's good enough for me, that should be good enough for anyone with a brain.

What is strange is that a legal document issued by the State of Hawaii is not good enough.

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How am I making myself look insane? I've never questioned Obama's citizenship. I believe he's an American. I just find it rather strange that he can't produce a simple and common document. Sorry for questioning Dear Leader.

If you believe he's qualified then you're simply finding another way to criticize. By questioning something as small (and insane) as this, you cheapen any other questions that you ask.

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How am I making myself look insane? I've never questioned Obama's citizenship. I believe he's an American. I just find it rather strange that he can't produce a simple and common document. Sorry for questioning Dear Leader.

Nice try. You believe that is an American, but you don't trust the document proving it and claim that he has something to hide. Whatever.

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How am I making myself look insane? I've never questioned Obama's citizenship. I believe he's an American. I just find it rather strange that he can't produce a simple and common document. Sorry for questioning Dear Leader.

I wouldn't be able to produce mine either, in the same circumstances. I only have the small laminated version, rather than the larger full BC. So do my kids, only theirs aren't laminated.

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I wouldn't be able to produce mine either, in the same circumstances. I only have the small laminated version, rather than the larger full BC. So do my kids, only theirs aren't laminated.

Having the small laminated version is fine. You're one up on Obama. :lol:

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I wouldn't be able to produce mine either, in the same circumstances. I only have the small laminated version, rather than the larger full BC. So do my kids, only theirs aren't laminated.

I don't even have that mine went through the wash. I always thought my passport enough to prove I am a citizen.

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That's not true. In defense of Obama, a doctor from Hawaii has stated that there's an actual birth certificate, which shows that Obama was born in Hawaii. Is he lying?

I don't believe this doctor exists -- can you show some reference to him? -- does he have say, a name?

It doesn't matter that Hawaii has gone "electronic." They didn't go electronic 30 years ago. He would have been issued a real birth certificate, not just a certificate of live birth.

he WAS issued a real birth certificate --- it has been displayed and the nut cases have done their best to dismiss it -- that's what this story is all about -- moreover, all the birthers have to offer is a paranoid delusion --- I'm still waiting for one of you to explain the difference between:

a) a certificate of live birth -- and

B) a birth certificate

I mean, sure it's a giggle a minute but shouldn't these conspiracy theories have at least an inkling of reality to them, somewhere????

Edited by Guthrie
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How am I making myself look insane? I've never questioned Obama's citizenship. I believe he's an American. I just find it rather strange that he can't produce a simple and common document. Sorry for questioning Dear Leader.

Since you are not talking anyones word for it, you ARE questioning Obama's citizenship. Because you keep screaming for some proof, you ARE questioning Obama's citizenship.

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Proof that you, and the morons at the American Thinker, do not know what you are talking about. OF COURSE the statement by Dr. Fukino does not say what is on the original borth certificate. To reveal that information from anyone's bieth record would have constituted a violation of Hawaii Vital Statistics Act (HRS 338), the State's Code of Conduct for public employees and official (HRS 84), codes of ethics and confidentiality provisions governing the medical profession (she's a docteur, after all).

Government employees anywhere in the USA and Canada are FORBIDDEN from revealing what is on an individual birth, marriage or death registration, unless in the form and to the people mentioned by law and regulation. Feel free to show me any state or provincial law that would authorize a government employee to tell the press the content of an individual's birth registration.

As for the part about the certification not being as good as the certificate, here's what the LAW actually says

Believe what the American Thinker says about the law, I will believe the law itself.

Well Shady did provide a link to WND as well.... come on,

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I don't believe this doctor exists -- can you show some reference to him? -- does he have say, a name?

Yes he does have a name.

That October 31, 2008 statement says that Dr. Fukino "ha personally seen and verified that the Hawai'i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama's original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures

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I think they're wrong too. Obama is an American citizen. But that's a seperate issue to the shenanigans involving his birth certificate.

No, it's really not. Obama was asked for proof and he gave it.

Were the other candidates - past and more recent - held to the same scrutiny?

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