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"Birthers" movement problem for GOP


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Are you saying unless a doctor is present during Birth someone is not a citizen? That seems silly.

It sure is silly, wherever did you get that idea from?

I would imagine that if somebody was born outside of a hospital then whomever was attending the birth could sign as well as a witness with a doctor or administrator testifying with a signature as well that they have spoken to the parties involved and yes, the baby was born at home, in a car, in a plane or wherever. Point being, somebody should have signed the document along with a witness testifying when and exactly where the baby was born.

That detailed information is not found on a short form or certificate of live birth.

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HAY SHADY !!!

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/07/28...test=latestnews

This is from Foxnews. And I know they are not really friendly to Obama, but this should settle this issue once and for all. If it does not, then who is wearing the tinfoil now?

:) This next statement sums it all up.

Will the real Shady please pay attention.

I've already posted the statement from Health Director Dr. Chiyome Fukino in an earlier post. Perhaps you're the one who needs to pay attention. :lol:

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Are you saying that Obama may have been born without a doctor present?

I am saying people who are born in the US with out a doctor present are still citizens no matter how many times you guys claim the only thing that makes you a citizen is a doctor signed birth certificate. Just cause you guys hate Obama does not mean those people are no longer citizens.

Know what those people get though a certificate of live birth and they can use that to prove they are citizens. So that is proof no matter how many times you assert it isn't.

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It sure is silly, wherever did you get that idea from?

I would imagine that if somebody was born outside of a hospital then whomever was attending the birth could sign as well as a witness with a doctor or administrator testifying with a signature as well that they have spoken to the parties involved and yes, the baby was born at home, in a car, in a plane or wherever. Point being, somebody should have signed the document along with a witness testifying when and exactly where the baby was born.

That detailed information is not found on a short form or certificate of live birth.

So?

It's not found on mine or my kids' birth certificates either, but it's all the proof of citizenship needed.

Edited by lily
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So?

It's not found on mine or my kids' birth certificates either, but it's all the proof of citizenship needed.

His citizenship was never in question. It is the criteria that any presidential candidate must be born in the USA. For example, Shwartzenegger is a US citizen however, can never be president, even though he has attained the position of Governor.

The birthers are contending that Obama has not proved he was born in the USA and maintain for some reason, that his mother was not on US soil when he was born. Furthermore, when his fatehr is not a US national and his mother has not spent five years in the US when over the age of 14, he is not a US citizen and must apply for that status.

While I feel it rather strange that Obama would take the trouble and cost to put up what must be a costly defense against these charges when he could simply show the Birth Certificate itself is only surpassed by the question I have of the birthers which is what leads them to the suspicion that Stanly Duram was not in this country and instead, in Kenya when he was born.

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His citizenship was never in question. It is the criteria that any presidential candidate must be born in the USA. For example, Shwartzenegger is a US citizen however, can never be president, even though he has attained the position of Governor.

The birthers are contending that Obama has not proved he was born in the USA and maintain for some reason, that his mother was not on US soil when he was born. Furthermore, when his fatehr is not a US national and his mother has not spent five years in the US when over the age of 14, he is not a US citizen and must apply for that status.

While I feel it rather strange that Obama would take the trouble and cost to put up what must be a costly defense against these charges when he could simply show the Birth Certificate itself is only surpassed by the question I have of the birthers which is what leads them to the suspicion that Stanly Duram was not in this country and instead, in Kenya when he was born.

He has a certificate of live birth proving he was born in Hawaii... but you don't question his citizenship... just whether on not he was born in the US?

He has shown the document given to him by the state of Hawaii. They say it's fine. Heck, even Ann Coulter says it's fine.

Do you really want to be nuttier than Ann Coulter?

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He has a certificate of live birth proving he was born in Hawaii... but you don't question his citizenship... just whether on not he was born in the US?

He has shown the document given to him by the state of Hawaii. They say it's fine. Heck, even Ann Coulter says it's fine.

Do you really want to be nuttier than Ann Coulter?

I don't question that as I believe he was born in the US. I do wonder why an explanation of the difference between two documents as requested by Guthrie is considered by yourself as nutty though. Perhaps you can explain that one?

As for the State saying it is fine I am sure it is quite legal though it may not contain any exacting information as to exactly where he was born and who was attending the birth. I do wonder why he spends tens of thousands (possibly hundreds of thousands) of dollars defending himself instead of producing a document though. For those who say that the birthers would not be satisfied, a counter suit could then be filed requesting court costs which would then more than likely stifle any continued suits.

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It's a non-issue.

I really don't see why it wasn't laid to rest when the State of Hawaii itself declared he was born there.

As for the State saying it is fine I am sure it is quite legal though it may not contain any exacting information as to exactly where he was born and who was attending the birth.

What difference does that make?

Edited by lily
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It's a non-issue.

I really don't see why it wasn't laid to rest when the State of Hawaii itself declared he was born there.

What difference does that make?

These birthers seem to feel that his mother was out of the country at the time of his birth. Why, I have no idea. If there is any validity to their claim (which I have not seen) then it is would be a serious federal matter requiring an examination of the document by a federal entity rather than a state employee simply saying that it looks ok to her.

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These birthers seem to feel that his mother was out of the country at the time of his birth. Why, I have no idea. If there is any validity to their claim (which I have not seen) then it is would be a serious federal matter requiring an examination of the document by a federal entity rather than a state employee simply saying that it looks ok to her.

He showed a certificate of Live Birth which is what they give out in Hawaii to prove that. All this is going to do is make it so no republican and get elected in Hawaii ever again.

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These birthers seem to feel that his mother was out of the country at the time of his birth. Why, I have no idea. If there is any validity to their claim (which I have not seen) then it is would be a serious federal matter requiring an examination of the document by a federal entity rather than a state employee simply saying that it looks ok to her.

Why aren't you asking these birthers to prove their claims?

The burdon of proof is on the nutjobs.

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While I feel it rather strange that Obama would take the trouble and cost to put up what must be a costly defense against these charges when he could simply show the Birth Certificate itself...

"simply show the Birth Certificate itself" - right Krusty... of course, it's too much trouble for you to bother to read that definitive Krusty Birthers Takedown link I provided a couple of posts back.

help for Krusty when he suggests Obama simply show the Birth Certificate itself

Answer: No, you can't obtain a "certificate of live birth" anymore.

The state Department of Health no longer issues copies of paper birth certificates as was done in the past, said spokeswoman Janice Okubo.

The department only issues "certifications" of live births, and that is the "official birth certificate" issued by the state of Hawaii, she said.

And, it's only available in electronic form.

Okubo explained that the Health Department went paperless in 2001.

"At that time, all information for births from 1908 (on) was put into electronic files for consistent reporting," she said.

Information about births is transferred electronically from hospitals to the department.

"The electronic record of the birth is what (the Health Department) now keeps on file in order to provide same-day certified copies at our help window for most requests," Okubo said.

Asked for more information about the short-form versus long-form birth documents, Okubo said the Health Department "does not have a short-form or long-form certificate."

"The birth certificate form has been modified over the years and decades to conform to national standards and models," she said.

Okubo also emphasized the certification form "contains all the information needed by all federal government agencies for transactions requiring a birth certificate."

She added that the U.S. Supreme Court has recognized the state's current certification of live birth "as an official birth certificate meeting all federal and other requirements.

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Why aren't you asking these birthers to prove their claims?

The burdon of proof is on the nutjobs.

I'm afraid you have it backwards, they are asking Obama to prove something, not the other way around. I'd like for Obama to prove they are wrong however, it is they who are asking for proof and he is the one not providing it to their stated satisfaction. As I said earlier though, I would like to understand why they seem to feel his mother was traveling near the end of her term.

Only Waldo would use the Annenberg Foundation to prove anything about Obama. you know, the same Annenberg Foundation that both he and Ayers worked for when heading the $46 million dollar Chicago Chicago Annenberg Challenge. The same Annenberg foundation that owns the Factcheck.org that he uses as proof and, who's board members contributed over three hundred fifty thousand dollars to his political campaigns.

Edited to add: Waldo

And, it's only available in electronic form.

Okubo explained that the Health Department went paperless in 2001.

"At that time, all information for births from 1908 (on) was put into electronic files for consistent reporting," she said.

Which makes it all that easier to access the information that the original Birth Certification contained that the birthers wish to have produced.

Waldo! You haven't a clue do you? :lol:

Edited by KrustyKidd
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I'm afraid you have it backwards, they are asking Obama to prove something, not the other way around. I'd like for Obama to prove they are wrong however, it is they who are asking for proof and he is the one not providing it to their stated satisfaction. As I said earlier though, I would like to understand why they seem to feel his mother was traveling near the end of her term.

Obama HAS proved it. THe State of Hawaii has confirmed it.

But sure. Feel free to lend credence to the nutjobs because they "seem to feel" his mother was out of the country at the time of his birth.

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Obama HAS proved it. THe State of Hawaii has confirmed it.

But sure. Feel free to lend credence to the nutjobs because they "seem to feel" his mother was out of the country at the time of his birth.

It was never proved in a court of law or, by a federal entity hence, it has only been discussed much like it is here. If those people had a case, that proof, as seen on Waldo's 'Obamacheck.org' and a state employee giving it the thumbs up wouldn't stand up for a second.

And how am I giving any credence to the nutjobs Lilly? I keep repeating that they have not shown any reason to have a case to begin with so I can only assume that because I don't jump in and agree with everybody like a sockpuppet, you take it to mean I'm in bed with the birthers.?

Talk about black and white with free thought going down the toilet.

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It was never proved in a court of law or, by a federal entity hence, it has only been discussed much like it is here. If those people had a case, that proof, as seen on Waldo's 'Obamacheck.org' and a state employee giving it the thumbs up wouldn't stand up for a second.

And how am I giving any credence to the nutjobs Lilly? I keep repeating that they have not shown any reason to have a case to begin with so I can only assume that because I don't jump in and agree with everybody like a sockpuppet, you take it to mean I'm in bed with the birthers.?

Talk about black and white with free thought going down the toilet.

Accept Congress which is the court of law for presidents, ergo impeachment voted yesterday to declare Hawaii his birth place.

Yah you are the I don't believe this but guy right? I don't believe George Bush is a racist but he did let a lot of black people die in New Orleans. That is he guy you are right now.

Edited by punked
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here which used this as one of ot's refs.

Absolutely none, save the person was living and breathing so we agree on that. To have more absolute proof other than a piece of paper that states he or she was born in a certain place at a certain time however, something with the attending doctor's name, signature, that of a witness and the hospital in which this event occured would be in order. This would be found on the certificte of birth rather than the certification of live birth.

Thank you for proving my point.

Even though the terminology used by the Hawaii Department of Home lands differ a little from the pne used in the State statutes and by the Department of Health (the Department responsible for Vital statistics records, what they say will serve my purpose just fine.

That department will accept either a certificate (long form) issued shortly after the birth, or a certification which the ONLY certified copy of the birth record the State will now issue. Clearly, if the Department of Home Land thought the informaton on a certification was not sufficient or was less of a proof, they would not accept it.

Also, the Hawaii Department of Health's website states:

Vital records (birth, death, marriage, and divorce certificates) for events that occurred in Hawaii are received and preserved by the Office of Health Status Monitoring, a unit of the Department of Health. In Hawaii, access to vital records is restricted by statute (HRS §338-18).

Certified copies of these records may be issued to authorized individuals and used for such diverse purposes as school entry, passports, Social Security participation, driver’s licenses, employment, sports participation, survivor’s benefits, proof of property rights, and other needs (...) link

As already determined, the only certified copies the State of Hawaii will issue is title "Certification of Life Birth". Clearly, the Department of Health would not be issuing only a document that is insufficient to meet requirements for passport, Social Security, driver licenses, etc.

In other words, the idea that a certified copy of a birth record (no matter how it is called) is incomplete unless physician information is included is based on what people wants thing to be, not on what they actually are.

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His citizenship was never in question. It is the criteria that any presidential candidate must be born in the USA. For example, Shwartzenegger is a US citizen however, can never be president, even though he has attained the position of Governor.

Actually, the requirement is that the person be a "natural born citizen" (that is, born a citizen), be at least 35 year old, and has lived in the United states for at least 14 years. Nothing in there about place of birth. the text from the National Archives and Records Administration's website

The birthers are contending that Obama has not proved he was born in the USA and maintain for some reason, that his mother was not on US soil when he was born. Furthermore, when his fatehr is not a US national and his mother has not spent five years in the US when over the age of 14, he is not a US citizen and must apply for that status.

The requirement that the mother had lived for a certain period of time in the US if the father is a foreigner applied at that time only if the child had been born outside of the U.S. As a result of the decision of the United States Supreme Court in U.S. vs Won Kim Ark, 1898 (link), any child born in the U.S. is a noatural born citizen, regardless of the citizenship status of the parents (exception: foreign diplomatic personnel and agents, or members of hostile foreign occupying forces).

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There 's this one guy out there , that was on coasttocoastAM.com and again I heard this same guy on another radio talk show and he said he was going to prove that Obama wasn't born a US citizen and the birth certificate was fake and he was going to prove it before Obama became President. Well, Obama is President and the guy is still trying to prove it and now all the other Republic talk show host are out there doing and saying the same. The following article has proof that Obama was born in Hawaii. http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/reuters/usreport_us_obama_birth

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