jbg Posted May 9, 2009 Report Share Posted May 9, 2009 A Hamas Parable (link) A Brit, an Italian and an Israeli soldier were kidnapped by Hamas. The Brit is given a cup of tea; the Italian, a bowl of pasta; the Israeli is hog-tied and handcuffed. The Brit demands sugar and cream; the Italian, a meatball; and the Israeli some water. Hamas grants the Brit and the Italian their wishes; but the Israeli soldier is beaten. After about an hour of severe beating, the solder suddenly rips off his shackles, pulls out a machine gun from nowhere and blows all the Hamas guys away. The Brit and the Italian are astonished. "Why didn't you do that at the very beginning," they ask? "Because then," replies the Israeli solder, "I would have been accused of agression." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kactus Posted May 9, 2009 Report Share Posted May 9, 2009 (edited) Just an observation... We all know what Hammas is capable of doing to Israel and vice versa. but.... I have always been wondering why people keep bringing these fine examples of israelis with brits or americans as if they are inseparable buddies at birth!? One thing for sure one could have replaced the example of the brits soldier with a turk. Afterall Turkey is in a much closer proximity and given the history of Ottomans would be a fine example. As for the italian they could be replaced with the friendly peace loving Jordanian/Egyptian. Edited May 9, 2009 by kactus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironstone Posted May 9, 2009 Report Share Posted May 9, 2009 When someone is trying to kill you,you have no choice but to hit back....hard.Sadly,Israel does not seem to have this right in the eyes of much of the world.For the life of me,I can't understand how groups like Hamas or Hezbollah,who want nothing less than the complete destruction of Israel and her inhabitants,are always ahead in the arena of public opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dub Posted May 9, 2009 Report Share Posted May 9, 2009 in today's world, the brits and italians would not be able to get away with what israel gets away with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted May 9, 2009 Report Share Posted May 9, 2009 in today's world, the brits and italians would not be able to get away with what israel gets away with. Take over the Falklands...see what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kactus Posted May 9, 2009 Report Share Posted May 9, 2009 When someone is trying to kill you,you have no choice but to hit back....hard.Sadly,Israel does not seem to have this right in the eyes of much of the world.For the life of me,I can't understand how groups like Hamas or Hezbollah,who want nothing less than the complete destruction of Israel and her inhabitants,are always ahead in the arena of public opinion. Whilst I understand what you are implying here my position is not taking sides either with Israel or Hammas! My point of contention primarily focuses on Israel's PR machine at work and the image they have created of themselves in the ME. Same goes for Hammas propaganda machine. If they (Israel) are not even getting that right amongst the muslim worlds (countries like Turkey/ Jordan) then what chances do they have with the rest of the world other than sucking up to brits and americans for all their problems? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted May 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2009 I have always been wondering why people keep bringing these fine examples of israelis with brits or americans as if they are inseparable buddies at birth!?The groups should be inseparable buddies, as being about the only peoples that have shown themselves capable consistently of self-rule without implosion or explosion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted May 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2009 If they (Israel) are not even getting that right amongst the muslim worlds (countries like Turkey/ Jordan) then what chances do they have with the rest of the world other than sucking up to brits and americans for all their problems?Better than sucking up to Qadafi, Ahmejenejad (sp, should be "I'm a Dinner Jacket") and the like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestViking Posted May 10, 2009 Report Share Posted May 10, 2009 (edited) Whilst I understand what you are implying here my position is not taking sides either with Israel or Hammas! My point of contention primarily focuses on Israel's PR machine at work and the image they have created of themselves in the ME. Same goes for Hammas propaganda machine. If they (Israel) are not even getting that right amongst the muslim worlds (countries like Turkey/ Jordan) then what chances do they have with the rest of the world other than sucking up to brits and americans for all their problems?What "sides"? Israel is a sovereign nation responsible for and to its people. Hamas is a lawless organization of murderous terrorists who represent no one but themselves. Lawless terrorist groups do not have a side in international affairs. Edited May 10, 2009 by WestViking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted May 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2009 Lawless terrorist groups do not have a side in international affairs.In the fantasy world of the New York Times, Toronto Star, www.rabble.ca, www.democraticunderground.com and www.dailykos.com they do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borg Posted May 10, 2009 Report Share Posted May 10, 2009 When someone is trying to kill you,you have no choice but to hit back....hard.Sadly,Israel does not seem to have this right in the eyes of much of the world.For the life of me,I can't understand how groups like Hamas or Hezbollah,who want nothing less than the complete destruction of Israel and her inhabitants,are always ahead in the arena of public opinion. Well, you did know that anything Jewish MUST be bad - didn't you? Borg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kactus Posted May 10, 2009 Report Share Posted May 10, 2009 What "sides"? Israel is a sovereign nation responsible for and to its people. Hamas is a lawless organization of murderous terrorists who represent no one but themselves. Lawless terrorist groups do not have a side in international affairs. Well believe it or not they do amongst palestinians. That's how they got the vote in the first place. I agree with the notion that Israel is a sovereign nation but my point was and still is that as a responsible nation first it should mend ties with her neighbours. If every single country in the region is unhappy with your policies (I am not referring to you it's quite rhetorical) then maybe you should look deep inside and analyse what's wrong instead of alienating yoruself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myata Posted May 10, 2009 Report Share Posted May 10, 2009 I'd like to introduce a standard phrase token; it doesn't really matter which words would go in it, let's say "four decades world". It'd refer to this very credible idea (that some really (want to) believe) that the world was created in about 1949, and then the lights went up on the Day 1, the situation was as we know it now, with an angelically blameless newlyborn entity on one side, and a host of hellish fiends on the other. It's been discussed to death, so whenever one of these floating threads would pop up, I'll just use the phrase token as a shorther, and environmentally friendly substitution of any number of threads related to historical origins of the issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted May 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2009 Well believe it or not they do amongst palestinians. That's how they got the vote in the first place. I agree with the notion that Israel is a sovereign nation but my point was and still is that as a responsible nation first it should mend ties with her neighbours. If every single country in the region is unhappy with your policies (I am not referring to you it's quite rhetorical) then maybe you should look deep inside and analyse what's wrong instead of alienating yoruself.That's tough when every single one of your neighbors prefer you dead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted May 10, 2009 Report Share Posted May 10, 2009 Here's an interesting site w/ newspaper clippings from Israel's creation, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myata Posted May 10, 2009 Report Share Posted May 10, 2009 And of course, it's veeeeeeeeeeeeeery objective and impartial (by any stretch - of imagination). Still does not change the fact that nobody has neither legal nor "moral" right, or authority, to "create" a new state in an area already populated by other people. Without their consent that is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted May 10, 2009 Report Share Posted May 10, 2009 And of course, it's veeeeeeeeeeeeeery objective and impartial (by any stretch - of imagination). Still does not change the fact that nobody has neither legal nor "moral" right, or authority, to "create" a new state in an area already populated by other people. Without their consent that is. Wasn't a problem for Canada or the United States. Consent is way overrated too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted May 10, 2009 Report Share Posted May 10, 2009 And of course, it's veeeeeeeeeeeeeery objective and impartial (by any stretch - of imagination). Still does not change the fact that nobody has neither legal nor "moral" right, or authority, to "create" a new state in an area already populated by other people. Without their consent that is. Sure it is, but the articles aren't. I think they give a great example of what the Mufti was up to. Many folks, maybe yourself, like to forget about this aspect of the Palestinian "Zionist" Movement. As far back as 1919, this fellow was terrorizing the Jewish community in the British Mandate...former Ottoman Turk Empire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted May 10, 2009 Report Share Posted May 10, 2009 Wasn't a problem for Canada or the United States. Consent is way overrated too. Yah - when she says no she really means yes - Just like Iraq - she said no and the U S took that as a yes....there is no need of consent when you have total domination and power - and no one to answer too. IF a Palastinian worker crosses into Israel to work for 3 dollars an hour - I guess that is consent - If you have not choice - then legalist call that consent - if you are coersed, that is considered consent by the powerful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted May 10, 2009 Report Share Posted May 10, 2009 Yah - when she says no she really means yes - Just like Iraq - she said no and the U S took that as a yes....there is no need of consent when you have total domination and power - and no one to answer too. IF a Palastinian worker crosses into Israel to work for 3 dollars an hour - I guess that is consent - If you have not choice - then legalist call that consent - if you are coersed, that is considered consent by the powerful. Right....there is no consent in the end. There is only power...those who have it...and those who want it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted May 10, 2009 Report Share Posted May 10, 2009 Yah - when she says no she really means yes - Just like Iraq - she said no and the U S took that as a yes....there is no need of consent when you have total domination and power - and no one to answer too. IF a Palastinian worker crosses into Israel to work for 3 dollars an hour - I guess that is consent - If you have not choice - then legalist call that consent - if you are coersed, that is considered consent by the powerful. Minimum wage in Israel is 3,850Sh per month. Approx the same as Canada in terms of lifestyle and buying power. Anything else is illegal under-the table wages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myata Posted May 10, 2009 Report Share Posted May 10, 2009 Sure it is, but the articles aren't. I think they give a great example of what the Mufti was up to. Many folks, maybe yourself, like to forget about this aspect of the Palestinian "Zionist" Movement. As far back as 1919, this fellow was terrorizing the Jewish community in the British Mandate...former Ottoman Turk Empire. Of course these fingers must be pointed somewhere (else), or how else would we justify (otherwise very very doubtful, for a polite term) "process" of creation? It's not like we know that all was done nicely, cleanly and legally, so there had to be a good, solid reason! But guess what. If my sh.. can be justified by him doing it, it also works the other way around. So, it goes. The endless cycle of sh.. hitting the fan. Hardly surprising, and don't expect it to change anytime soon. Because nobody here (even the most moral and humanly liberators of all and everywhere) is about to abandon the old tricks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 (edited) myata: ...so there had to be a good, solid reason! The Mufti is a good solid reason. I see no point in furthering the Neo-Nazi dreams of this man which live on in Hamas and other like-minded groups. I mean seriously...why do you support a movement started by a General in the SS who was a key player in The Holocaust? Arafat (not his 'real' name) was his nephew and other "al-Husseinis" continue with associations with Hamas and Hezbollah. Edited May 11, 2009 by DogOnPorch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted May 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 Here's an interesting site w/ newspaper clippings from Israel's creation, etc. Good find. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted May 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 Still does not change the fact that nobody has neither legal nor "moral" right, or authority, to "create" a new state in an area already populated by other people. Without their consent that is.Was it right to carve Pakistan out of colonial India and displace Hindus living in places like Karachi, who would be in mortal danger under Islamic rule? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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