M.Dancer Posted March 28, 2009 Report Posted March 28, 2009 What colour is the sky in your world where 'good' gloats about killing children and pregnant women? What brand make are the toasters in your world that tell you these things? Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
ironstone Posted March 29, 2009 Report Posted March 29, 2009 I can not get my head around how the Jews are so proud to have slipped the bonds of slavery - yet Palistine gets 50 dollars in aid - and Israel gets billions...This causes a slave master relationship between the Israeli and Palistinians ---Have you ever heard of a cheap labour crossing from Israel into Palistine to work?You can say that suicide bombers are fanatics..and some are dupes - but imagine the ones that are sane? What great and relentless injustice could drive a human being to sacrafice themselves in such a manner? As for the rockets..these primative tubes with a charge on the tip equal to 100 fire crackers... They are pea shooters compared to a helicopter gun ship that plants itself 500 feet in the air and sprays down munitions like bug spray on ants confined in a box...There is no difference in war between civilians and so-called soldiers..What is a non-civilian other than some dumb kid given basic training -----? What is a civilian - some crying woman complaining that those "terrorists put a hole in her living room wall big enough toss a basket ball though...as she weeps for the camera - an another huge cheque arrives at the door that is an American subsidy>// This whole mess stinks...and it's mindless. Israel and the Palestinians both get billions in aid.One side chooses to use the money wisely,the other chooses to spend it on weapons,inciting hate and keeping a woefully corrupt government in place.Palestine getting "50 dollars in aid"?!!The money is going somewhere.Remember Yassir Arafat stole huge amounts from his own people,the same goes on today no doubt.Your military analogy is way off too by the way. Quote "Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it." Thomas Sowell
ironstone Posted March 29, 2009 Report Posted March 29, 2009 What colour is the sky in your world where 'good' gloats about killing children and pregnant women? Have you forgotten the scenes of jubilation throughout much of the Muslim world after the 9/11 attacks?They were as happy as pigs in s**t. Quote "Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it." Thomas Sowell
ironstone Posted March 29, 2009 Report Posted March 29, 2009 I forgot to ask if you ever watch the evening news.Did you ever see the regular protest marches in the Middle East(I don't mean Israel!)and listened to them chanting "Death to Bush/America/Israel/Blair etc etc"?An offensive t-shirt kind of pales in comparison don't you think? What colour is the sky in their world? Quote "Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it." Thomas Sowell
DogOnPorch Posted March 29, 2009 Report Posted March 29, 2009 What colour is the sky in your world where 'good' gloats about killing children and pregnant women? What colour is the sky in your world where 'good' gloats about killing 3000 folks in NYC? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpYCzWcSLH0 Your move. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Oleg Bach Posted March 29, 2009 Report Posted March 29, 2009 What colour is the sky in your world where 'good' gloats about killing 3000 folks in NYC?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpYCzWcSLH0 Your move. What colour is the sky over the heads of the former American administration - where after 9 11 - nobody bothered to go after the funders and facilitators of the attack - and where the hell is Bin Laden the favourite and most heroic son of the Saudis? Hugh? What colour is the sky over the heads of greedy cowards who kill for money and call it democracy? Quote
kactus Posted March 29, 2009 Report Posted March 29, 2009 What colour is the sky over the heads of the former American administration - where after 9 11 - nobody bothered to go after the funders and facilitators of the attack - and where the hell is Bin Laden the favourite and most heroic son of the Saudis? Hugh? What colour is the sky over the heads of greedy cowards who kill for money and call it democracy? How true the above statement!!! It speaks volume about the hypocrisy when it comes to dealing on matters concerning foreign policy and setting priorities straight! Oh wait... Afghanistan is already in a mess and things are bound to get worse given the current climate in Pakistan. But hey let's pocket in more money to arms manufacturers and shovel it up saudis corrupted puppet kings. Quote
ironstone Posted March 29, 2009 Report Posted March 29, 2009 How true the above statement!!! It speaks volume about the hypocrisy when it comes to dealing on matters concerning foreign policy and setting priorities straight! Oh wait... Afghanistan is already in a mess and things are bound to get worse given the current climate in Pakistan. But hey let's pocket in more money to arms manufacturers and shovel it up saudis corrupted puppet kings. No argument there,most governments in the Middle East are thoroughly corrupt and dictatorial,some being much worse than others.Which is one big reason why I support the ONLY democratic country in the region....Israel. And by the way,it's not only the "greedy West" profiting from arms sales.Russia,Iran,North Korea have a hand in it too.Did you know that? Quote "Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it." Thomas Sowell
kactus Posted March 29, 2009 Report Posted March 29, 2009 Which is one big reason why I support the ONLY democratic country in the region....Israel.And by the way,it's not only the "greedy West" profiting from arms sales.Russia,Iran,North Korea have a hand in it too.Did you know that? Hmmm! That's debatable and I beg to disagree! You see I see Israel as a big complex military state and not necessarily a democracy. Yeah sure compared to some puppet regime in the ME (which the US has supported and sponsored in the past) Israel may adhere to some princilples of a "democracy" but by far they are not democratic. Anyway the focus of my argument concern's Oleg Bach's post earlier and the hypocracy as I see it with US foreign policy during GWB era. Quote
DogOnPorch Posted March 29, 2009 Report Posted March 29, 2009 What colour is the sky over the heads of the former American administration - where after 9 11 - nobody bothered to go after the funders and facilitators of the attack - and where the hell is Bin Laden the favourite and most heroic son of the Saudis? Hugh? What colour is the sky over the heads of greedy cowards who kill for money and call it democracy? Bin Laden...he's likely dead and has been for years. Two words Tora Bora. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
tango Posted March 29, 2009 Report Posted March 29, 2009 Israel and the Palestinians both get billions in aid.One side chooses to use the money wisely,the other chooses to spend it on weapons,inciting hate and keeping a woefully corrupt government in place. If Israel would stop blockading Gaza, effectively keeping them in a concentration camp with supplies cut off randomly, they wouldn't have to defend themselves from the aggression. Quote My Canada includes rights of Indigenous Peoples. Love it or leave it, eh! Peace.
DogOnPorch Posted March 29, 2009 Report Posted March 29, 2009 If Israel would stop blockading Gaza, effectively keeping them in a concentration camp with supplies cut off randomly, they wouldn't have to defend themselves from the aggression. So if Israel would just open the borders and let the arms and suicide bombers flow...all would be well? Someone has forgotten every Arab Israeli war... Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
ironstone Posted March 29, 2009 Report Posted March 29, 2009 Hmmm! That's debatable and I beg to disagree! You see I see Israel as a big complex military state and not necessarily a democracy. Yeah sure compared to some puppet regime in the ME (which the US has supported and sponsored in the past) Israel may adhere to some princilples of a "democracy" but by far they are not democratic. Anyway the focus of my argument concern's Oleg Bach's post earlier and the hypocracy as I see it with US foreign policy during GWB era. Israelis choose their leaders via the ballot box only.Palestinians also have "elections" but heavily influenced by the mighty AK-47. Quote "Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it." Thomas Sowell
tango Posted March 29, 2009 Report Posted March 29, 2009 (edited) So if Israel would just open the borders and let the arms and suicide bombers flow...all would be well?Someone has forgotten every Arab Israeli war... The Palestinians of Gaza would have no need to defend themselves if Israel was not assaulting them, trapping them and cutting off their supplies. Blockading and starving people is an act of war, and people have a right to defend themselves from starvation. So long as Israel insists on making war, Gaza will defend itself. Edited March 29, 2009 by tango Quote My Canada includes rights of Indigenous Peoples. Love it or leave it, eh! Peace.
DogOnPorch Posted March 29, 2009 Report Posted March 29, 2009 The Palestinians of Gaza would have no need to defend themselves if Israel was not assaulting them, trapping them and cutting off their supplies.Blockading and starving people is an act of war, and people have a right to defend themselves from starvation. So long as Israel insists on making war, Gaza will defend itself. I see. So Israel started all this. What's your take on the 1936 Arab Revolt? There was no Israel at the time. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
BC_chick Posted March 29, 2009 Report Posted March 29, 2009 (edited) What colour is the sky in your world where 'good' gloats about killing 3000 folks in NYC?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpYCzWcSLH0 Your move. You are so predictable, it's unbelievable. I have never claimed Palestinians are 'good', I've simply been asking you why you are so keen to overlook the 'evil' that Israelis do as well. You are, after all, the one saying one side is 'good' while the other is 'evil'.... Answer: So if I find one side is 'good' while the other is 'evil', you'll just have to accept I have my reasons for not supporting Nazis. You can't back up what you say so you put words in my mouth? Did I say Palestnians are 'good' the way you say about Israelis? If so, quote me as I just quoted you. Since you can't, please try again (fourth time is it now? I lost count), in explaining why you are so oblivious to the 'evil' things that Israelis do (as well) at times? Edited March 29, 2009 by BC_chick Quote It's kind of the worst thing that any humans could be doing at this time in human history. Other than that, it's fine." Bill Nye on Alberta Oil Sands
ironstone Posted March 29, 2009 Report Posted March 29, 2009 You are so predictable, it's unbelievable. I have never claimed Palestinians are 'good', I've simply been asking you why you are so keen to overlook the 'evil' that Israelis do as well. You are, after all, the one saying one side is 'good' while the other is 'evil'....You can't back up what you say so you put words in my mouth? Did I say Palestnians are 'good' the way you say about Israelis? If so, quote me as I just quoted you. Since you can't, please try again (fourth time is it now? I lost count), in explaining why you are so oblivious to the 'evil' things that Israelis do (as well) at times? Today's world can be a terrible place to be a part of sometimes.Often,leaders in the free world are forced to make difficult decisions which have far reaching consequences.You describe some of Israel's actions as "evil".I think a more honest description would be "necessary evil".It's sad that innocents die in the course of action but there is often no alternative.Hamas leaders must shoulder the blame because of their longstanding practice of hiding behind civilians,launching rockets from schools hospitals and the like. Quote "Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it." Thomas Sowell
BC_chick Posted March 29, 2009 Report Posted March 29, 2009 Today's world can be a terrible place to be a part of sometimes.Often,leaders in the free world are forced to make difficult decisions which have far reaching consequences.You describe some of Israel's actions as "evil".I think a more honest description would be "necessary evil".It's sad that innocents die in the course of action but there is often no alternative.Hamas leaders must shoulder the blame because of their longstanding practice of hiding behind civilians,launching rockets from schools hospitals and the like. While I hardly find policies like settlement building a 'necessary evil', my discussion here with DoP is about the specific topic of this thread. Did you see the pictures of tshirts some IDF soldiers were sporting? The ones where they gloat about killing children and pregnant women? That's the 'evil' I'm talking about toward which some people seem oblivious. Perhaps you are in that group yourself? Quote It's kind of the worst thing that any humans could be doing at this time in human history. Other than that, it's fine." Bill Nye on Alberta Oil Sands
ironstone Posted March 29, 2009 Report Posted March 29, 2009 While I hardly find policies like settlement building a 'necessary evil', my discussion here with DoP is about the specific topic of this thread. Did you see the pictures of tshirts some IDF soldiers were sporting? The ones where they gloat about killing children and pregnant women? That's the 'evil' I'm talking about toward which some people seem oblivious. Perhaps you are in that group yourself? No I haven't seen these t-shirts myself.They are done in very poor taste no doubt.But offensive t-shirts pale in comparison to the regular "Death to(insert name of enemy here)"marches that are deeply ingrained in Middle East culture.There is always self criticism and second guessing on the Israeli side.Can you honestly admit that most Palestinians have similar feelings?Has there been any significant outrage,any outrage, among Palestinians for the continued rocket attacks?The answer is no. Quote "Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it." Thomas Sowell
DogOnPorch Posted March 29, 2009 Report Posted March 29, 2009 Indeed the T-Shirts are offensive. As stated earlier, there are T-Shirts available in Canada that could be called just as offensive. Does it represent the entire Israeli nation? Doubt it. I find terrorist groups/governments based on the ideas of the Grand Mufti equally offensive. Do they represent every Arab? Of course not. However, it isn't the non-violent Arabs we have to worry about, is it? Does cultural relativism mean we just have to accept fascists as equals? Not in my view. So I support Israel, our old Cold War ally. Doing the dirty work it has to. Necessary evil...if you will. I suppose the Arabs could have said 'YES' to Palestine all those years ago. But they wanted the whole pie...still do. So they went to war and lost. What would you have the Israelis do? Roll over? A good comparative scenario would be the Falkland Island War. Argentina thought those British islands were theirs and invaded. The British took them back. Should they just hand them over to Argentina now because they won the war the Argentinans started? Think hard... Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
dub Posted March 30, 2009 Report Posted March 30, 2009 Israel and the Palestinians both get billions in aid.One side chooses to use the money wisely,the other chooses to spend it on weapons,inciting hate and keeping a woefully corrupt government in place.Palestine getting "50 dollars in aid"?!!The money is going somewhere.Remember Yassir Arafat stole huge amounts from his own people,the same goes on today no doubt.Your military analogy is way off too by the way. you managed to share a lot of misinformation in such a small paragraph. just so you know: #1 - israel receives over $3billion a year from the US tax payers. they spend majority of that on weapons #2 - palestinians receive a fraction of that from the international community and a lot of that goes towards an infrastructure that israel has crippled Quote
ironstone Posted March 30, 2009 Report Posted March 30, 2009 you managed to share a lot of misinformation in such a small paragraph. just so you know:#1 - israel receives over $3billion a year from the US tax payers. they spend majority of that on weapons #2 - palestinians receive a fraction of that from the international community and a lot of that goes towards an infrastructure that israel has crippled By all means,enlighten us.What exactly is the "fraction" of $3billion dollars that the Palestinians recieve? http://www.ask.com/bar?q=annual+Palestinin...d%3DACOS-635PFR This link suggests it's more than "fraction".And please take note of the number of countries pledging aid. Quote "Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it." Thomas Sowell
dub Posted March 30, 2009 Report Posted March 30, 2009 By all means,enlighten us.What exactly is the "fraction" of $3billion dollars that the Palestinians recieve?http://www.ask.com/bar?q=annual+Palestinin...d%3DACOS-635PFR This link suggests it's more than "fraction".And please take note of the number of countries pledging aid. we're talking about at least $3billion every single year for decades from the U.S. taxpayers to israel vs a "pledge" to give aid to the palestinian authority in the span of a few years. whatever aid that is given to the palestinians is to fix the mess the israeli government has created by shutting down the economy or by military attacks. for example, the latest israel attack on gaza has left most of gaza in ruins. whereas, israel, receives guaranteed financial aid and it uses most of that on military weapons. israel has received over $100 billion from the U.S. taxpayers. what the palestinian authorities have received has been a fraction of that. Quote
ironstone Posted March 30, 2009 Report Posted March 30, 2009 we're talking about at least $3billion every single year for decades from the U.S. taxpayers to israel vs a "pledge" to give aid to the palestinian authority in the span of a few years. whatever aid that is given to the palestinians is to fix the mess the israeli government has created by shutting down the economy or by military attacks. for example, the latest israel attack on gaza has left most of gaza in ruins.whereas, israel, receives guaranteed financial aid and it uses most of that on military weapons. israel has received over $100 billion from the U.S. taxpayers. what the palestinian authorities have received has been a fraction of that. You write a lot but you don't say much.Perhaps my eyesight is failing but nowhere in your post do I see an actual dollar figure for Palestinian aid. Entity Aid per capita (US$) Republic of Congo 362 West Bank and Gaza 304 Timor-Leste 189 Nicaragua 144 Serbia and Montenegro 140 Jordan 115 Macedonia 113 Source: Calculations based on data from World Bank Development Indicators Data Base, 2005 On December 17, 2007, eighty-seven countries and international organizations met in Paris and pledged to provide $7.4 billion over three years to the Palestinian Authority[1] (PA), an amount far in excess of any previous level of U.S. or European aid to the Palestinians. http://www.ask.com/bar?q=annual+Palestinin...tinian-violence Is this what you call a fraction? Quote "Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it." Thomas Sowell
dub Posted March 30, 2009 Report Posted March 30, 2009 You write a lot but you don't say much.Perhaps my eyesight is failing but nowhere in your post do I see an actual dollar figure for Palestinian aid.Entity Aid per capita (US$) Republic of Congo 362 West Bank and Gaza 304 Timor-Leste 189 Nicaragua 144 Serbia and Montenegro 140 Jordan 115 Macedonia 113 Source: Calculations based on data from World Bank Development Indicators Data Base, 2005 On December 17, 2007, eighty-seven countries and international organizations met in Paris and pledged to provide $7.4 billion over three years to the Palestinian Authority[1] (PA), an amount far in excess of any previous level of U.S. or European aid to the Palestinians. http://www.ask.com/bar?q=annual+Palestinin...tinian-violence Is this what you call a fraction? how much of this $7.4 that was pledged did the PA actually received in the 3 years? even if they received all that was pledged to them, how does that compare to the over $100 billion that israel has received from the U.S.? also, contrary to what you posted, do you now accept that israel uses most of the money they receive on "weapons"? Quote
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