IDF the most 'moral' army in the world

[Argus]

the palestinians, for the most part, are the victims in this conflict.

I thought they were the instigators of this conflict.

[dub]

I thought they were the instigators of this conflict.

which conflict? how were they the instigators? be a little more clear.

[DogOnPorch]

which conflict? how were they the instigators? be a little more clear.

The old Grand Mufti calling for Jihad in 1947 was the first shot...so to speak. Though he'd been a busy boy before that...

[dub]

I believe dub you have made it clear you wish to discuss this conflict from one partisan perspective and criticize those who do not engage in the same partisan perspective you do. You are at least unlike some, upfront about your intent to be partisan.

I can handle that. I would prefer someone be upfront about their biases and intentions like you then pretend they are not being bias.

I again challenge you that the approach you are using to analyze this conflict is self-fullfilling. You see what you want to see because you start off with the presumption it is black v. white.

there are many issues at hand here. some things are not simply right or wrong, however, there are some issues which, ie; the illegal settlements which continue to increase. the settlements are wrong. if you disagree with that, go ahead and debate it.

Here is what I want you to think about. How does what you do help resolve the conflict? How does cheer leading one side resolve the conflict?

all i am cheerleading is justice. is there something wrong with that? what is so wrong when i say we should follow international law?

when i see obvious mistakes in describing this conflict, like, for example: "israel unleashed their military because of hamas' rocket attacks"

that statement is simply wrong. anyone who has followed and studied this conflict, knows that hamas had not fired any rockets until israel attacked and killed 8 of their members. why aren't we talking about the truth and instead, why are we tippy toeing around the truth and sharing misinformation, exaggerations and lies? one way to resolve a conflict is to be honest about what is really happening instead of spinning the issue. do you agree or disagree with this?

Do you think your partisan cheer leading will help Palestinians deal with their own failure to find peaceful solutions?

i'm not partial to any group. i'm only partial to justice. it just happens that, in this conflict, the palestinians are the ones experiencing injustice.

Do you think cheer leading terrorists will help them?

you sound like DoP or Dancer. shame on you. you were doing so well until that comment. can you give me an example of me cheerleading 'terrorists'?

When have I once seen you come on this forum and talk of Palestinian peace activists who openly renounce terror as a means to express politics?

again, i have denounced any illegal activity, including terrorist activities by palestinians.

It is that selectivity I question not that you criticize Israel.

i've done nothing but share the truth and try to correct those who have not. if someone says suicide attacks that kill civilians, are wrong, i would not disagree with them and would support their comment without hesitation.

Israel must and has to be criticized for certain policies and mistakes. That is a given. But as long as you choose to remain silent on terrorism and selectively suggest it is not and simply a justified political response to Israeli policies you miss out on the whole point of what makes this conflict continue and that is people like you enabling and empowering people like Hamas to believe their terror is soliciting sympathetic support against Israel.

i have criticized terrorism and i will continue to do so. on this board, i have not seen anyone who has condoned terrorist attacks. have you? if i ever do, i will speak out. on the other hand, i have seen, time and time again, people condoning israel's attacks on civilians which has left thousands dead. many of them women and children.

What I am saying to you is if any of us are genuinely interested in resolving conflicts we have to stop taking sides and cheer leading violence and focus our attention on concentrating on positive non violent actions, policies and programs that humanize people and get them to see what they have in common.

excuse my language, but, no shit. i'm all for non-violent actions. perhaps you are getting me mixed up with someone else because all i want to see is no violence. what i want you to do is to challenge yourself and actually read what i have to say. next time you see me "support terrorism" or "support violence", please quote me and call me on it. cool?

Sounds to me you are caught up in the exact same chauvenism you claim all Israelis to be guilty of.

so how about my challenge to you? your accusations and claims about me and my approach to this debate are empty without proof. all you need to do is quote me on what you're accusing me of doing. otherwise, i would appreciate if you would stop with the defamation.

Edited March 24, 2009 by dub

[DogOnPorch]

that statement is simply wrong. anyone who has followed and studied this conflict, knows that hamas had not fired any rockets until israel attacked and killed 8 of their members. why aren't we talking about the truth and instead, why are we tippy toeing around the truth and sharing misinformation, exaggerations and lies? one way to resolve a conflict is to be honest about what is really happening instead of spinning the issue. do you agree or disagree with this?

Hamas throws Fatah member from high-rise.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvSMlPaD_Zo

[DogOnPorch]

Friday prayers gone wrong.

Hamas vs Fatah.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgjgrEAaL1M

[dub]

Hamas throws Fatah member from high-rise.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvSMlPaD_Zo

why did you quote me and paste something totally irrelevant to what i said?

[DogOnPorch]

It appears your Hamas chums aren't very 'moral' themselves if we be takin' score.

[eyeball]

Then you're no longer neutral.

You are in the military sense when you don't pick, choose, cheer or support one side over another in a conflict, especially one that is so intractable. In the sense of standing up to people who do though then no I suppose not.

[DogOnPorch]

You are in the military sense when you don't pick, choose, cheer or support one side over another in a conflict, especially one that is so intractable. In the sense of standing up to people who do though then no I suppose not.

There's something like 300,000,000 AK-47 assault rifles on the planet with millions more made each year making it the most wide-spread weapon in the world. None of them are in use by 'our side' other than collectors/target practice. There's a gun market across the Afghanistan border in Pakistan that turns out something like 500,000 of them per year.

Neutral is a position best saved for standard transmissions.

[eyeball]

There's something like 300,000,000 AK-47 assault rifles on the planet with millions more made each year making it the most wide-spread weapon in the world. None of them are in use by 'our side' other than collectors/target practice. There's a gun market across the Afghanistan border in Pakistan that turns out something like 500,000 of them per year.

So what, have any been used against us here at home? No.

[dub]

It appears your Hamas chums aren't very 'moral' themselves if we be takin' score.

when did hamas become my "chums"? what's wrong with you?

let us get something straight DoP and i sincerely hope that we don't have to go over it again:

my criticism of israel does not equal to the following:

- my support for hamas

- anti-semitism

[DogOnPorch]

when did hamas become my "chums"? what's wrong with you?

let us get something straight DoP and i sincerely hope that we don't have to go over it again:

my criticism of israel does not equal to the following:

- my support for hamas

- anti-semitism

You're not an honest person.

[DogOnPorch]

So what, have any been used against us here at home? No.

My point: entire industries exist to make your neutrality a moot point. Kalashnikov being one.

[dub]

You're not an honest person.

when have i not been honest? show me where i have supported hamas to give some credibility to your statement that hamas are my "chums".

[eyeball]

My point: entire industries exist to make your neutrality a moot point. Kalashnikov being one.

How? Industries don't declare wars or attack people's borders.

[DogOnPorch]

How? Industries don't declare wars or attack people's borders.

Of course not...all AK-47s are for sport hunting.

[eyeball]

Of course not...all AK-47s are for sport hunting.

So a coalition of sport hunters and arms manufacturers are at our borders?

[DogOnPorch]

So a coalition of sport hunters and arms manufacturers are at our borders?

Only if you say so.

However every terrorist on the planet likely has one sitting in the corner.

[DogOnPorch]

when have i not been honest? show me where i have supported hamas to give some credibility to your statement that hamas are my "chums".

Yeah...I protested as well.

[dub]

Yeah...I protested as well.

eh? not sure what kind of a response that is to my question, but yeah:

can you show me where i have shown support for hamas' terrorist/illegal activities?

[DogOnPorch]

eh? not sure what kind of a response that is to my question, but yeah:

can you show me where i have shown support for hamas' terrorist/illegal activities?

Two dishonest people talking about truth? How is THAT possible?

[dub]

Two dishonest people talking about truth? How is THAT possible?

you're babbling and not making sense. in more than one thread.

since you're unable to provide any proof, then we'll conclude that you've lied again.

[DogOnPorch]

you're babbling and not making sense. in more than one thread.

since you're unable to provide any proof, then we'll conclude that you've lied again.

We'll? Are there more than one of you now?

[eyeball]

However every terrorist on the planet likely has one sitting in the corner.

So what?