Support for Tories up amid House crisis,

[Moonbox]

I'm just wondering what people think about the numbers that are coming in from some of the polls out there. Apparently it looks as though even MORE Canadians are supporting Harper since the election rather than the other way around as a lot of people here seemed to think.

CBC/Ekos Poll

[-VMG-]

I see it as a enraged misinformed public that no one is giving information to.

Of course emotion of the public who are uneducated on our democracy is going to flock to the only people telling them what democracy is (which is a lie in this case). In this case being the conservatives.

I think if the media actually attempted to inform the public on what is going on things would look different.

But it seems like the CBC at least is just attempting to make news worthy stories for viewers.. and no focussing on the facts.

[BC_chick]

VMG, I was watching an episode of Bill Maher tonight which was filmed during the presidential campaign. One of the speakers was a senator (can't remember the name), and he summed it up perfectly:

"If you tell the people 'I'm going to give tax-cuts to the rich and outsource your job, vote for me!' they wouldn't. You have to find something else that will make everyday people vote for you, and that's why they play on fear."

It's so true about our right-wingers too. Harper's plans don't really benefit anyone but corporations and the rich... what else does he have to win people over other than fear?

[August1991]

I'm just wondering what people think about the numbers that are coming in from some of the polls out there. Apparently it looks as though even MORE Canadians are supporting Harper since the election rather than the other way around as a lot of people here seemed to think.

Are you surprised?

I see it as a enraged misinformed public that no one is giving information to.

Of course emotion of the public who are uneducated on our democracy is going to flock to the only people telling them what democracy is (which is a lie in this case). In this case being the conservatives.

Of course, ordinary people are ignorant or easily influenced by money. Democracy is a good idea as long as rich people can't influence the ignorant masses - the masses need to know their interests.

The Conservatives appear to have won the initial public relations battle surrounding the impasse on Parliament Hill, during one of the most chaotic weeks in Canadian political history, an EKOS poll conducted for the CBC suggests.

Link

[Martin Chriton]

It's so true about our right-wingers too. Harper's plans don't really benefit anyone but corporations and the rich... what else does he have to win people over other than fear?

As much as I dislike Harper, one thing he has correct though is his corporate tax policy. If Canada isn't competitive corporations will just relocate elsewhere. When it comes to corporate taxes the NDP are much more scary.

[blueblood]

VMG, I was watching an episode of Bill Maher tonight which was filmed during the presidential campaign. One of the speakers was a senator (can't remember the name), and he summed it up perfectly:

"If you tell the people 'I'm going to give tax-cuts to the rich and outsource your job, vote for me!' they wouldn't. You have to find something else that will make everyday people vote for you, and that's why they play on fear."

It's so true about our right-wingers too. Harper's plans don't really benefit anyone but corporations and the rich... what else does he have to win people over other than fear?

PMPM and Dion tried running on fear and it didn't work out too well...

[-VMG-]

The sad fact is the public seem to eat it up like a tasty piece of cake...

He does play his part very well... to me he looks like an arrogant ass... to some he looks like a beacon of hope in a time of despair.

I think if the coalition finds a way to inform the public and persuade them to keep cool heads... then we might not fall into the evil plan...

What harper should want is an immediate election... but he also doesn't want to seem eager... many people are in emotional disarray over this coalition.

If there was a vote today, i personally believe there would be a lot of regret in a very short amount of time.

[-VMG-]

As much as I dislike Harper, one thing he has correct though is his corporate tax policy. If Canada isn't competitive corporations will just relocate elsewhere. When it comes to corporate taxes the NDP are much more scary.

Corporations won't be around forever... maybe we need to cut our losses before our losses cut us. They will always go where the money is.

[kimmy]

Chick, VMG...

...the Liberals *had* to realize that there were elements of this coalition that were going to be very challenging to sell to the Canadian public.

They *had* to have understood that. I mean, how many times did Paul Martin accuse the Conservatives of sneaking around with the BQ in 2005? They understood then that it was something that would rankle Canadian voters... did they somehow think that's just different now?

They *had* to understand that installing a Prime Minister who's just gotten stomped down in a general election was going to be controversial.

They had to realize that before they plunged ahead with this plan. (If they didn't, then they're simply too stupid and naive to hold public office.) They had to have understood the challenges of communicating this plan to Canadians. And yet... it seems as if they were unprepared to do so. It is almost as if they just assumed that people would buy into their side of things without explanation. How could they go into this without being prepared to fight a battle of public perception?

And complaining that the media should advocate their side of things for them? WTF? Maybe if this was 1980 and we were in Moscow, then Pravda would explain things for them. In Canada, in 2008, no. We expect that our media will at least try to maintain an appearance of impartiality, and we expect that our politicians will state their own case to the people.

Somebody (blueblood?) was saying last week that "they brought a knife to a gunfight." If anything, it now seems like blueblood was being charitable. It seems more like they brought a spork to the gunfight.

-k

[Peter F]

I'm just wondering what people think about the numbers that are coming in from some of the polls out there. Apparently it looks as though even MORE Canadians are supporting Harper since the election rather than the other way around as a lot of people here seemed to think.

CBC/Ekos Poll

Hmmm...makes me wonder why Harper put parliament in abeyance...seems he thinks putting a confidence vote to the house now would result in an election - an election he obviously doe's not want at this point. Doe's he fear a majority government? No, I think not.

His actions seem to say he doe's not believe the polls are accurate

[blueblood]

Chick, VMG...

...the Liberals *had* to realize that there were elements of this coalition that were going to be very challenging to sell to the Canadian public.

They *had* to have understood that. I mean, how many times did Paul Martin accuse the Conservatives of sneaking around with the BQ in 2005? They understood then that it was something that would rankle Canadian voters... did they somehow think that's just different now?

They *had* to understand that installing a Prime Minister who's just gotten stomped down in a general election was going to be controversial.

They had to realize that before they plunged ahead with this plan. (If they didn't, then they're simply too stupid and naive to hold public office.) They had to have understood the challenges of communicating this plan to Canadians. And yet... it seems as if they were unprepared to do so. It is almost as if they just assumed that people would buy into their side of things without explanation. How could they go into this without being prepared to fight a battle of public perception?

And complaining that the media should advocate their side of things for them? WTF? Maybe if this was 1980 and we were in Moscow, then Pravda would explain things for them. In Canada, in 2008, no. We expect that our media will at least try to maintain an appearance of impartiality, and we expect that our politicians will state their own case to the people.

Somebody (blueblood?) was saying last week that "they brought a knife to a gunfight." If anything, it now seems like blueblood was being charitable. It seems more like they brought a spork to the gunfight.

-k

That's right, I done knowed it the whole time!!!

The Liberals should blow the whole thing up and go for it again in five years when harper is unelectable.

[ToadBrother]

As much as I dislike Harper, one thing he has correct though is his corporate tax policy. If Canada isn't competitive corporations will just relocate elsewhere. When it comes to corporate taxes the NDP are much more scary.

And how many large businesses that will be getting tax cuts will also be getting a chunk of the inevitable stimulus package(s)?

It strikes me as a strange statement that we want to be "competitive" in the current climate when "competitive" is likely to mean "we're willing to burden taxpayers with more government debt than that other jurisdiction". That's exactly what the auto industry is asking for down in the States and what they're hoping for up here.

I'm not so sure that the current version of "competitive" really means that at all. We're entering an era of unparalleled socialism; industries being partly nationalized in the hopes that if we throw enough money at them, they'll stay afloat.

Part of me really does think that the bulk of the stimulus should go directly into the pockets of Canadians. If they want to use it to buy cars, then so be it. Since I'm not convinced these stimulus packages everyone's throwing out there are going to do anything, I'd say let's just give it to the taxpayer directly. I'm really not sure that big business deserves it. If we are going to give bucks to big business, they shouldn't get tax cuts, it's that simple. Since they largely responsible for this disaster, the onus should be on them in the long run, not the taxpayer, whose the guy getting screwed every which way but Sunday.

[Riverwind]

His actions seem to say he doe's not believe the polls are accurate

His actions were decided long before the polls came out. I am actually quite surprised at the bump in numbers and I had expected the country to split according to the vote in the last election. This timeout is exactly what the Libs needed since they would have risked humilation on Monday if proceeded with the vote only to find that their caucus experienced a flu outbreak which allows the Tories to survive. The Libs now have 7 weeks to dump Dion. Edited December 5, 2008 by Riverwind

[craiger]

His actions were decided long before the polls came out. I am actually quite surprised at the bump in numbers and I had expected the country to split according to the vote in the last election. This timeout is exactly what the Libs needed since they would have risked humilation on Monday if proceeded with the vote only to find that their caucus experienced a flu outbreak which allows the Tories to survive. The Libs now have 7 weeks to dump Dion.

you know it brother!

[BC_chick]

Kimmy, I wasn't talking about the coalition per se, I was talking about Harper's tactics. He seems to have taken a page out of the Republican handbook where he knows his policies can't appeal to the majority of the people, so all he does is smear. This last example of him playing the separatism card instead of brining up the issues demonstrated exactly that. He could've garnered sympathy by painting them as bullies who continued even after he changed his mind. But no, not one to seem like a bullying flip-flopper, all he did throughout the whole speech last night was go on with a bunch of untruths about an unholy alliance which is bringing into question the whole idea of our democracy. In a nutshell, it was all BS.

Pardon the French... and no pun intended.

[William Ashley]

I'm just wondering what people think about the numbers that are coming in from some of the polls out there. Apparently it looks as though even MORE Canadians are supporting Harper since the election rather than the other way around as a lot of people here seemed to think.

CBC/Ekos Poll

I can understand how people are afraid to tell the truth in the face of Dictator Harper and his band of thugish goons.

[Peter F]

His actions were decided long before the polls came out. I am actually quite surprised at the bump in numbers and I had expected the country to split according to the vote in the last election. This timeout is exactly what the Libs needed since they would have risked humilation on Monday if proceeded with the vote only to find that their caucus experienced a flu outbreak which allows the Tories to survive. The Libs now have 7 weeks to dump Dion.

All part of Harpers plan? I think not. The opposition party's called the bluff, sending Harper running to the GG to avoid the confidence vote.

Sometimes things are exactly as they seem.

[betsy]

Kimmy, I wasn't talking about the coalition per se, I was talking about Harper's tactics. He seems to have taken a page out of the Republican handbook where he knows his policies can't appeal to the majority of the people, so all he does is smear. This last example of him playing the separatism card instead of brining up the issues demonstrated exactly that. He could've garnered sympathy by painting them as bullies who continued even after he changed his mind. But no, not one to seem like a bullying flip-flopper, all he did throughout the whole speech last night was go on with a bunch of untruths about an unholy alliance which is bringing into question the whole idea of our democracy. In a nutshell, it was all BS.

Pardon the French... and no pun intended.

Smear? One thing I'm so impressed about the leftists parties are their remarkable way of twisting context and re-definition of words.

Calling a liar a liar is not smearing. That is a statement of fact.

The Liberals and the NDP had gone to bed with the Separatist. That is a fact.

The Bloc is in Parliament solely for the good of a sovereign Quebec. The Bloc propped the Coalition solely for the good of a soverign Quebec. That is a fact. Diuceppe himself had made that perfectly clear after the signing of the Coalition.

Funny, the promises of Dion seem to have been taken out from the nation address of Harper. The onus is on the Coalition to show that they have a more detailed economic plan than the update-budget speech of Harper, since they are trying to justify this power-grab from the lack of anything solid from that budget speech. Dion's promises gave nothing solid either.

Frankly speaking, the word "bully" which has been over-used by the Opposition sound too childish (for lack of a better word) a word to be bandied about by a leader of a nation. The word is too "soft" and is a downplay of what's really happening here. This is no mere bullying.

"POWER-GRAB AT ALL COST!" That's what's really at play here! It has nothing to do with the economy.

The people are not as dumb as what the Coalition assume. The people clearly see through all the BS being thrown about by the Coalition. According to the polls and the public outrage, that is a fact!

According to the latest Ipsos-Reid, only 4 in 10 Canadians support the Coalition.

Last night Duffy relased an Ipsos Reid that stated 64% approved of the Governor General's decision to prorogue.

Edited December 5, 2008 by betsy

[Shakeyhands]

They *had* to understand that installing a Prime Minister who's just gotten stomped down in a general election was going to be controversial.

.

-k

This point is interesting. From a strategic perspective... The CPC did a fantastic job of smearing Dion during the election and certainly did a fantastic job now. I think this 'coalition' did themselves no favours with still having Dion around. He should have stepped dpown immediately after the election and someone else should have stepped in. This would have killed comments like kimmys.

Between that and the cries (untrue of course) of seperatist coalition, it was enough.

If they had been at least a little honest they would have focused on the practicalities of installing a gov't where the bloc would have been involved in day to day, foreign policy, trade etc...

It's easier to default to the lowest common denominator for the great unwashed though it seems.

[White Doors]

It's easier to default to the lowest common denominator for the great unwashed though it seems.

I love it when the left don't get their way, they insult the very people who are their ticket to power.

This is why the NDP and Greens will always be a rump of a party.

They are playing the game backwards.

Edited December 5, 2008 by White Doors

[scribblet]

Boy, hard to believe a few people on here seem to think it's okay for the Liberals to lie and smear with impunity.

Coalition supporters are plain dishonest. The coalition does not exist at present except in the minds of a select few. It has no political legitimacy; no vote was taken, and the coalition has no official recognition.

Supporters claim that Prime Minister Harper has lost the confidence of parliament. Wishing that something were so and reality are different. Roughly 160 opposition MPs have not had time to consider the implications of how a political coup de d'etat will play in their home ridings. There is a real and strong possibility that the ranks

of `independent' MPs will suddenly swell.

[madmax]

This point is interesting. From a strategic perspective... The CPC did a fantastic job of smearing Dion during the election and certainly did a fantastic job now.

Give your head a shake not your hands. Dion did himself in, 3 short days. THere is no doubt that the coalition momentum had Harper on his heels and then the LPC supported Dion, and Dion did everything he was capable of without intereference. Harper was too busy on the defensive and then orchestrating the offensive, which didn't focus on Dion, but more on the BQ. Not a wise move IMHO. The public does not like Dion. Imagine if Harper did reinforce that negative, those LPC numbers would be in single digits. In the meantime, the Harper Government spread parlimentary BS, and rallied the public, something Dion is incapable of and doesn't understand, and then didn't use this strength, but choose to hide behind Michelle Jean and a questionable Proroguing of parliment.

I don't know if the CPC did a fantastic job, but the Dion camp are pathetic and useless.

Anyone who reads more into these polling numbers shouldn't confuse the obvious with the unobtainable.

The CPC polling numbers are up, but they can't use them, because only 16% of people are interested in an election. That is the lowest number I have ever witnessed. Going to the polls with numbers like this in the foreseeable future will result in unpredictable election results, possibly radical ones.

If you are wondering where the problem is... Dion destroyed a coalition in 3 short days, a couple incomprehensible speeches and a failed Television Network Address. It doesn't get worse then that.

Dion was and is the only goofball to let Harper off the hook from his antics. I believe the CPC could well have made it through this crises. Not that they shouldn't have, but I think instead of learning a lesson, which is where they were last week, when everyone was questioning why Harper created a crises, I believe that they CPC will get cocky, belieiving they can get away with their antics, and poor behaviour.

If parliment is going to grow up, it has to start with the Prime Minister and trickle down.

[M.Dancer]

Corporations won't be around forever... maybe we need to cut our losses before our losses cut us. They will always go where the money is.

That's too funny...how long has HBC been around?

[M.Dancer]

And how many large businesses that will be getting tax cuts will also be getting a chunk of the inevitable stimulus package(s)?

None if the NDP are kept out of power.

[madmax]

That's too funny...how long has HBC been around?

hmm...........

The Hudson's Bay Company (French: Compagnie de la Baie d'Hudson), abbreviated HBC, is the oldest commercial corporation in North America and is one of the oldest in the world. The company was incorporated by British royal charter in 1670 as The Governor and Company of Adventurers of England trading into Hudson's Bay; it

Hope that helps