Open warfare in South Ossetia

[bush_cheney2004]

Black people are not automatically American. Just an FYI They could have hired Black Mercs from anywhere in the world.

That's OK...Russia thought all Cubans are black too...in Angola!

So many black people in Russia!

[PoliticalCitizen]

That's OK...Russia thought all Cubans are black too...in Angola!

So many black people in Russia!

LOL

Russia remains quite racist in general... there are almost no black people (why would they immigrate to Russia?) in Russia or any of its immediate neigbors...

Soviets didn't use black people as slaves. Theys used their own peoples for that purpose.

[moderateamericain]

Agreed. It could be a lie altogether. But US arming and training Georgian military is not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_military_contractor

Just for your info UK, poland, and South Africa all have several PSC or PMC's if you prefer.

And so what if we did arm them. Looks like they needed it. Do you think if we had not armed them the results in S. Ossetia would have been different? They would have just gotten the weapons somewhere else. China, SE asia, S Africa. ETC ETC ETC

[PoliticalCitizen]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_military_contractor

Just for your info UK, poland, and South Africa all have several PSC or PMC's if you prefer.

And so what if we did arm them. Looks like they needed it. Do you think if we had not armed them the results in S. Ossetia would have been different? They would have just gotten the weapons somewhere else. China, SE asia, S Africa. ETC ETC ETC

US government's encouragement and promise of NATO membership undoubtedly emboldened Georgian suicidal leader to commit the attack.

[PoliticalCitizen]

You use these term like "genocide" as if you know what they mean. I don't think you get it...even a half baked emerging democracy in Georgia is far more valuable that the full baked fiasco that is Putin's Russia.

Wikipedia: Genocide is the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group.

Tell me which part of this is unapplicable to Georgia's attack on South Ossetia.

[bush_cheney2004]

Wikipedia: Genocide is the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group.

Tell me which part of this is unapplicable to Georgia's attack on South Ossetia.

All of it....just like the politics of genocide in Serbia. Difference is that Russia is a loser.

[blueblood]

Wikipedia: Genocide is the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group.

Tell me which part of this is unapplicable to Georgia's attack on South Ossetia.

If the West is so evil, corrupt, and seemed destined to fail, why in all that is holy did you move to Toronto from Russia? If Russia is such a shining beacon of light to the rest of the world and the West including the country your taking residence in is so evil why aren't you filing immigration papers to Russia and buying a plane ticket? You like to take all the benefits a western lifestyle has given you and not only not appreciate it, flat out condemn it. You sir are a hypocrite.

There are hundreds of thousands of immigrants on a waiting list who would give their right arm to come to the west and appreciate it, but we're stuck with this. Do our immigration system a favor and leave so someone who actually wants to be here can live here.

[PoliticalCitizen]

If the West is so evil, corrupt, and seemed destined to fail, why in all that is holy did you move to Toronto from Russia? If Russia is such a shining beacon of light to the rest of the world and the West including the country your taking residence in is so evil why aren't you filing immigration papers to Russia and buying a plane ticket? You like to take all the benefits a western lifestyle has given you and not only not appreciate it, flat out condemn it. You sir are a hypocrite.

There are hundreds of thousands of immigrants on a waiting list who would give their right arm to come to the west and appreciate it, but we're stuck with this. Do our immigration system a favor and leave so someone who actually wants to be here can live here.

More hate speech...

Read my other posts and you'll see what opinion is on US (where I do NOT live), Canada (where I DO), Russia (where I never lived) and USSR (where I did).

As I told other members of this board - resorting to personal attacks and name-calling are arguments of a 12 year old.

RESPECT the members of this board... or be a troll.

[August1991]

You are correct, Ukrainian government is as anti-Russian as can be. But this government represens maybe a bit more than half of the people of Ukraine. Timoshenko, the Prime Minister ("Orange Princess") sympathizes with Russia more now. About the split - look at the vote results (Yuschenko vs Yanukovich).

On this point, I tend to agree with PC.

Khrushchev took a huge chunk of Russia and joined it to Ukraine. When the Soviet Union dissolved in 1991 and existing borders were respected, this Russian-speaking portion of the FSU became part of Ukraine. Future generations will have to sort this problem out and it will be far messier than the 70,000 Ossetian/Georgians (non-ethnic Russians) living in South Ossetia.

There are still many unresolved issues left over from the Cold War and the collapse of the Soviet Union. It's worth pointing out though that the Soviets never hijacked planes and flew them into American buildings.

[Oleg Bach]

On this point, I tend to agree with PC.

Khrushchev took a huge chunk of Russia and joined it to Ukraine. When the Soviet Union dissolved in 1991 and existing borders were respected, this Russian-speaking portion of the FSU became part of Ukraine. Future generations will have to sort this problem out and it will be far messier than the 70,000 Ossetian/Georgians (non-ethnic Russians) living in South Ossetia.

There are still many unresolved issues left over from the Cold War and the collapse of the Soviet Union. It's worth pointing out though that the Soviets never hijacked planes and flew them into American buildings.

Georgia is Russia so is the Ukraine (original Russia) again the west should stop coveting Russian property---do you see the Russians taking back Alaska or California? If you are part of the internatial Mafia you have to have honour or their will be war---now stop coveting and again- mind your own buisness.

[blueblood]

More hate speech...

Read my other posts and you'll see what opinion is on US (where I do NOT live), Canada (where I DO), Russia (where I never lived) and USSR (where I did).

As I told other members of this board - resorting to personal attacks and name-calling are arguments of a 12 year old.

RESPECT the members of this board... or be a troll.

I have read, you are lumping Canada in with the US on your opinions. You've claimed Canada is America's stooge.

I have pointed you out as a hypocrite and this thread is proof. You live in "the West" and hate everything about it except for the posh lifestyle you get to enjoy here because of "Western foreign policy". If Russia is the cat's ass of the world and the west is evil, why aren't you living there right now?

If my attacks are the arguments of a 12 year old, your "rebuttal" is that of a 10 year old, you haven't debated my points. I have been on this board a lot longer and I'm as respectful as the next poster. I have called you a hypocrite, proved you are a hypocrite, now defend yourself.

[PoliticalCitizen]

I have read, you are lumping Canada in with the US on your opinions. You've claimed Canada is America's stooge.

I have pointed you out as a hypocrite and this thread is proof. You live in "the West" and hate everything about it except for the posh lifestyle you get to enjoy here because of "Western foreign policy". If Russia is the cat's ass of the world and the west is evil, why aren't you living there right now?

If my attacks are the arguments of a 12 year old, your "rebuttal" is that of a 10 year old, you haven't debated my points. I have been on this board a lot longer and I'm as respectful as the next poster. I have called you a hypocrite, proved you are a hypocrite, now defend yourself.

Why do you wish to attack me personally? I am not here to be attacked, to defend myself or to attack others, I hope you're not either.

If you want to provide input on the topics we're discussing - please. A 12 year old has little patience and capacity to look for arguments to prove his point and starts attacking the opponent personally.

If your question is genuine I will answer: Yes, life is better in Canada than in any former USSR republics that I know of. Yes, I believe Canada is very dependent on US in ALL regards. Canada's foreign policy was OK in my book until we decided to bomb Serbia.

I disagree with you that the "posh lifestyle" is a result of the foreign policy. On the opposite, US attacking left and right is one of the factors that brought our collective economy down.

Now please try to stay on the topic without personal attacks or I'll ignore your posts.

[jbg]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080808/ap_on_...CwSd6Mh78pvaA8F

In case you dont know this Georgia is actively trying to join with NATO. The US trains Georgian troops who currently have about 2k in Iraq. This is getting beyond serious. Open warefare is a big deal. Especially when dealing with two kids on the block who historically dont flinch when it comes to games of chicken.

The silence of the media and many others is deafening. If Israel tried such naked, unprovoked aggression....

[jbg]

Wikipedia: Genocide is the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group.

Tell me which part of this is unapplicable to Georgia's attack on South Ossetia.

And why is Russia's unprovoked attack against a far weaker nation OK with you?

[blueblood]

Why do you wish to attack me personally? I am not here to be attacked, to defend myself or to attack others, I hope you're not either.

If you want to provide input on the topics we're discussing - please. A 12 year old has little patience and capacity to look for arguments to prove his point and starts attacking the opponent personally.

If your question is genuine I will answer: Yes, life is better in Canada than in any former USSR republics that I know of. Yes, I believe Canada is very dependent on US in ALL regards. Canada's foreign policy was OK in my book until we decided to bomb Serbia.

I disagree with you that the "posh lifestyle" is a result of the foreign policy. On the opposite, US attacking left and right is one of the factors that brought our collective economy down.

Now please try to stay on the topic without personal attacks or I'll ignore your posts.

I'm not out to change your mind, I'm trying to convince others. I have succeeded in painting you as a hypocrite. You sir have been outfoxed by someone who is more redneck than GW Bush. You attack GW Bush personally, your asking for it. Your whole argument that the US and Canada are the "evil west" is bullshit and I've called it, and proved it. Your only defense is calling me a 12 yr. old and saying my dismantling of your argument is a personal attack.

My argument is that you have come to Canada and get an opportunity at a better life than that craphole you came out of, then you throw it back in our face. We have fought crapholes militarily and economically like the USSR for this lifestyle. God help us if we lost the cold war, I sure don't want to be calling anyone comrade. The US attacking everyone is an investment on keeping our lifestyle preserved, and they are doing a good job at it. Freedom isn't cheap.

My problem is someone coming here and enjoying all the benefits of the lifestyle and not knowing how we achieved it. You come here and spout how evil Canada and the US are, yet you are living in Canada and enjoying a lifestyle that some in Russia would love to enjoy. The US and Canada is only evil when it's convenient for you, once again you are a hypocrite. If you were living in Russia and posting from there, your argument would be taken much more seriously.

Canadian economy down, oh wait you live in Toronto, come out west or to the Maritimes, no hurting economy out here.

As for the US being evil, what foreign leader went to see the Taliban in A-stan or Saddam in Iraq to show solidarity when the US attacked???

[PoliticalCitizen]

And why is Russia's unprovoked attack against a far weaker nation OK with you?

Read the thread and check your facts.

[Alta4ever]

Thank you! I will take note and read some of these books at my earliest opportunity. You are correct - I am much more familiar with the history they taught us in Soviet schools then the history of British Navy.

However, history aside, I do not think any self-respecting country in the world would like to be "policed" by another, more powerful country.

In the ideal world that would be a great idea... But then in the ideal world there should be no countries, no armies, no famine, no wars...

No country has been policed, what has been policed are the trade routes.

Lets face it realistically there can be no ideal world, it would be nice, but it flies in the face of human nature.

Georgia was drawn into this battle. How this was set up and executed by Russian is very much parallels German and the Sudetenland in Czechoslovakia during the lead up to the second world war.

[jbg]

I disagree with you that the "posh lifestyle" is a result of the foreign policy. On the opposite, US attacking left and right is one of the factors that brought our collective economy down.

The US was attacked on September 11, 2001. Was it supposed to do nothing?

[Kaisa]

Read the thread and check your facts.

And which facts do you suggest we check? "Facts" provided by you?

How about the real facts?

Ossetians don't want to live with Georgians, fine. Thank god, they have Russia with such a large territory. They can go and live in Siberia where their experience and attitude might prove useful later, if you know what I mean

What about Georgians who lived in “South Ossetia” before 1990 and were kicked out from there? What about Georgians from Abkhazia where they were majority? Does their opinion not count?

Everyone says there was a war in 90th and Georgia lost to Abkhazians and Ossetians. Georgians are only 4.4 million but they are still 60 times more than Ossetians. So, is it not clear that Georgians lost that war to Russians not Ossetians? It is really not a rocket science.

Russia became a "peacekeeper" in the region. Nice! And they started issuing Russian passports to Ossetians and Abkhazians while at the same time Russians who live on the Georgian territory need to go through a very lengthy process to become a citizen of Russia.

Georgian villages around “South Ossetia” were bombed for a very long time. Georgians were complaining but nobody cared. ok, Saakashvili should not have attacked “South Ossetia”. Fine, I don’t like violence either. What he was supposed to do to defend his citizens? Move away further? Give more territory to Russia? Until when? Regardless how unwise Saakashvili's actions were, is it really so difficult to realize that the war would have started no matter what?

Please don’t tell me you care about Ossetians. I love Canada and Canadians but I was not born Canadian and I will not be easily fooled, I know what the real feelings of Russians are. I am Gruzin (Georgian in Russian) or as you “lovingly” call us black-a** Grizun (rodent). Check out this video, this is how you really love foreigners.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRScPVDSD6k

I don’t think the World realizes that the way you raise your youth is scary and maybe even scarier than the way you act in Georgia.

As for sentimental posts about poor South Ossetians. Do you think Russians killed less than 2000 people in Georgia? Do you realize that people get kidnapped, raped, burned alive in Georgia right now as we post in this forum? There is no good reason for Russians to stay in Georgia right now. They just stay there to steal more, destroy more and kill (or let Ossetians kill) more Georgians to punish and scare them. So, talk about interests, land, power, pipeline but dont you dare talk about lost Ossetian lives.

Edited August 18, 2008 by Kaisa

[M.Dancer]

Agreed. It could be a lie altogether. But US arming and training Georgian military is not.

Actually it is. I have already linked to the Georgian military inventory...it's all russian crap.

[M.Dancer]

delendum est.

Edited August 18, 2008 by M.Dancer

[PoliticalCitizen]

No country has been policed, what has been policed are the trade routes.

Lets face it realistically there can be no ideal world, it would be nice, but it flies in the face of human nature.

Georgia was drawn into this battle. How this was set up and executed by Russian is very much parallels German and the Sudetenland in Czechoslovakia during the lead up to the second world war.

Except the Czech and Slovak did not try exterminating the German population.

[PoliticalCitizen]

The US was attacked on September 11, 2001. Was it supposed to do nothing?

Attacked by whom? By Afganistan? By Iraq? By "Terror" (`cause the war is on "terror")?

[PoliticalCitizen]

And which facts do you suggest we check? "Facts" provided by you?

How about the real facts?

Ossetians don't want to live with Georgians, fine. Thank god, they have Russia with such a large territory. They can go and live in Siberia where their experience and attitude might prove useful later, if you know what I mean

What about Georgians who lived in “South Ossetia” before 1990 and were kicked out from there? What about Georgians from Abkhazia where they were majority? Does their opinion not count?

Everyone says there was a war in 90th and Georgia lost to Abkhazians and Ossetians. Georgians are only 4.4 million but they are still 60 times more than Ossetians. So, is it not clear that Georgians lost that war to Russians not Ossetians? It is really not a rocket science.

Russia became a "peacekeeper" in the region. Nice! And they started issuing Russian passports to Ossetians and Abkhazians while at the same time Russians who live on the Georgian territory need to go through a very lengthy process to become a citizen of Russia.

Georgian villages around “South Ossetia” were bombed for a very long time. Georgians were complaining but nobody cared. ok, Saakashvili should not have attacked “South Ossetia”. Fine, I don’t like violence either. What he was supposed to do to defend his citizens? Move away further? Give more territory to Russia? Until when? Regardless how unwise Saakashvili's actions were, is it really so difficult to realize that the war would have started no matter what?

Please don’t tell me you care about Ossetians. I love Canada and Canadians but I was not born Canadian and I will not be easily fooled, I know what the real feelings of Russians are. I am Gruzin (Georgian in Russian) or as you “lovingly” call us black-a** Grizun (rodent). Check out this video, this is how you really love foreigners.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRScPVDSD6k

I don’t think the World realizes that the way you raise your youth is scary and maybe even scarier than the way you act in Georgia.

As for sentimental posts about poor South Ossetians. Do you think Russians killed less than 2000 people in Georgia? Do you realize that people get kidnapped, raped, burned alive in Georgia right now as we post in this forum? There is no good reason for Russians to stay in Georgia right now. They just stay there to steal more, destroy more and kill (or let Ossetians kill) more Georgians to punish and scare them. So, talk about interests, land, power, pipeline but dont you dare talk about lost Ossetian lives.

If you are truly Georgian (Gruzin) than I am sorry for what happened to your country... No matter whose fault it was, the people always suffer... I hope your relatives are fine.

I am also originally from a republic that was split into multiple parts - Moldova. We had a small-scale civil war, I hope that doesn't happen again.

Edited August 18, 2008 by PoliticalCitizen

[PoliticalCitizen]

Actually it is. I have already linked to the Georgian military inventory...it's all russian crap.

US gave Georgia money to buy Russian crap because American crap is too expensive (and probably not better anyway ).

The link below highlights Georgia's military spending:

http://www.tiraspoltimes.com/news/arms_bui...th_ossetia.html

Israel has outfitted the T72 tanks with night-vision systems and supplied Georgia with unmanned aircraft drones.

http://www.thebulletin.us/site/index.cfm?n...76361&rfi=8

"The Israelis ought to be proud of the fact that Georgian soldiers received Israeli education and training and are fighting like I don't know what," said another Georgian cabinet minister, Temur Yakobashvili, in an interview with the Israeli media.