US Missile Shield: Reemerging Cold War, WW3, then New World Order?

[obsidian]

In reaction to the US strategically surrounding Russia, converting its former allies, expansion of NATO, and the missile shield Russia has a few proposals:

First is the creation of a unified North—a United States-EU-Russia alliance that implements coordinated security and economic policies. Russia would offer its natural resources, territorial, scientific and human potential for mutually beneficial integration with Europe and America.

Second, Russia asks that the West recognize the inevitability of the rise of non-Western powers such as especially China and cease trying to block their ascent by sabotage and military action such as occupation of Iraq and key oil sources. Washington and the EU instead should engage with the new powers using collective forums, such as the UN Security Council, to shape a non-confrontational peaceful order.

The third, and perhaps the most bold and most obvious, Medvedev proposes reshaping the present failed global economic order that was built up after 1944 around a US-dominated International Monetary Fund as a de facto neo-colonial weapon of securing cheap raw materials and imposing North dominance on Africa, Latin America and Asian nations. He proposes instead the North share some of its gains with the South before it is too late.

At the same time Russia has announced it has strategic bombers over cuba(or refueling there), has put its bombers back on stand by patrol, is increasing their military draft and spending, has strengthened ties with Iran, and is strengthening ties with Venezuela.

A key to their doctrine is that the world is no longer unipolar under US dominance, which is true.

probally better to read the article then comment. then atleast i won't be liable for the trifle discrepancies BC festers over ad nausesm

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?con...va&aid=9641

Edited July 23, 2008 by obsidian

[M.Dancer]

At the same time Russia has announced it has strategic bombers over cuba(or refueling there), has put its bombers back on stand by patrol, is increasing their military draft and spending, has strengthened ties with Iran, and is strengthening ties with Venezuela.

Russian Defense Ministry officials have tried to pour cold water on the report, saying the newspaper story was written under a false name and quoted a source at an organization that did not exist.

http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNew...229801920080722

Tinfoil is seems, is a worldwide commodity.

[eyeball]

WW3 then a new stone age you mean. I fail to see why one big super-duper rogue would be any less stupid than a bunch of piddling little super-rogues. Thanks but no thanks.

[Oleg Bach]

WW3 then a new stone age you mean. I fail to see why one big super-duper rogue would be any less stupid than a bunch of piddling little super-rogues. Thanks but no thanks.

Why don't the Americans put a missle base in Cuba - and if the Russians have bombers based there the pre-emptive strike on the Russian base in Cuba will be a flight that lasts for a few seconds - seeing the Americans have a prison farm in Cuba already - which I don't get seeing that Cuba is a boycotted entity - fraud - and more fraud....as far as rogues - you are all barbarians and rouges!

[DogOnPorch]

Missile shields make Russia nervous because they don't quite have that technology hammered down 100%. Moscow used to be protected by an older ABM shield. It's probably still deployed, but MIRVs have rendered much of that old tech rather obsolete. If their tech was up where the American's is, they wouldn't be bitching so much. Reagan's Star Warz...though we chuckled a lot back then, led to some very positive breakthroughs in the ABM field.

That being said, most of the planet's major players have some sort of ABM program, so those in fear of America's program just better get used to it as they aren't going to unilaterally stop while the rest of the planet plays technology catch-up...but, it would be fair if they did...lol. I know how much some of you enjoy 'fairness' in war.

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Before I refuse to take your questions, I have an opening statement.

---President Ronald Reagan

[myata]

Oh yeah. Once again, as so many times before, poor threatened America is having its hand forced.

[bush_cheney2004]

Oh yeah. Once again, as so many times before, poor threatened America is having its hand forced.

Yes, in the good old days it was your empire whining about the dreadnaught gap.

[myata]

Indeed. As they say in Quebec, "plus ca change, plus ca reste la meme chose". I.e. nothing's new under this Sun.

Edited July 24, 2008 by myata

[GostHacked]

Missile shields make Russia nervous because they don't quite have that technology hammered down 100%. Moscow used to be protected by an older ABM shield. It's probably still deployed, but MIRVs have rendered much of that old tech rather obsolete. If their tech was up where the American's is, they wouldn't be bitching so much. Reagan's Star Warz...though we chuckled a lot back then, led to some very positive breakthroughs in the ABM field.

That being said, most of the planet's major players have some sort of ABM program, so those in fear of America's program just better get used to it as they aren't going to unilaterally stop while the rest of the planet plays technology catch-up...but, it would be fair if they did...lol. I know how much some of you enjoy 'fairness' in war.

--------------------------------------------

Before I refuse to take your questions, I have an opening statement.

---President Ronald Reagan

The US is just as concerned that a dirty bomb situation has the same probability as a missle strike. Sneaking in a bomb might be easier than firing a nuke from a sub or land. Many things in place to intercept a missle. Not many things in place to stop a dirty bomb from being transported across the border. The US has done tests on this already with the Canadian Governments help. These tests showed that the bombs made it through.

Not to mention that a missle shield was utterly useless when it came to the event that was 9/11. The largest terror attack on US soil was done with boxcutters and civilian aircraft.

[DogOnPorch]

The US is just as concerned that a dirty bomb situation has the same probability as a missle strike. Sneaking in a bomb might be easier than firing a nuke from a sub or land. Many things in place to intercept a missle. Not many things in place to stop a dirty bomb from being transported across the border. The US has done tests on this already with the Canadian Governments help. These tests showed that the bombs made it through.

Not to mention that a missle shield was utterly useless when it came to the event that was 9/11. The largest terror attack on US soil was done with boxcutters and civilian aircraft.

Apples and oranges. If a 5mt thermonuclear warhead was heading for your or my city, I'm sure we'd cheer a well developed missile shield. A so-called 'dirty bomb' as opposed to a true salted nuclear weapon are also two different things. A conventional bomb spreading uranium or plutomium would be more of a terror weapon than something truely destructive. A cobalt bomb...different story. As far as sneaking one into the US...I'm not sure how hard it would be. I'm pretty sure they have ways to detect such things.....

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Go tell it on the mountain over the hills and everywhere...

[GostHacked]

A conventional bomb spreading uranium or plutomium would be more of a terror weapon than something truely destructive.

Well, there is this whole War on Terror going on. It plays on them mind of 'what could be'. For the most part this is what you see in media. Terrorism seems to be the largest enemy out there. On the battlefield, wounding is just as good as killing. A wounded soldier need a medic, resources are spent on to get that soldier back to base to heal up. You don't need to send resources to a completely destroyed city. You do need to send resources to a wounded city. I can cause you more harm by taking little chunks out of you than by doing it in one blow.

As far as sneaking one into the US...I'm not sure how hard it would be. I'm pretty sure they have ways to detect such things.....

Things get across borders all the time without needing to talk to customs. How do you think drugs and weapons get across borders?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/yourview/2007/09/bo...t_of_under.html

"Our work shows that a determined cross-border violator would likely be able to bring radioactive materials or other contraband undetected into the United States by crossing the U.S.-Canada border at any of the locations we investigated," the accountability office report states.

Those Giger counters are best effective when actually used.

....

We also now see that Russia is flying a few long range bombers to Cuba. Interesting developements. Another Cuban Missle Crisis on the horizon?

[DogOnPorch]

Well, there is this whole War on Terror going on. It plays on them mind of 'what could be'. For the most part this is what you see in media. Terrorism seems to be the largest enemy out there. On the battlefield, wounding is just as good as killing. A wounded soldier need a medic, resources are spent on to get that soldier back to base to heal up. You don't need to send resources to a completely destroyed city. You do need to send resources to a wounded city. I can cause you more harm by taking little chunks out of you than by doing it in one blow.

Things get across borders all the time without needing to talk to customs. How do you think drugs and weapons get across borders?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/yourview/2007/09/bo...t_of_under.html

Those Giger counters are best effective when actually used.

....

We also now see that Russia is flying a few long range bombers to Cuba. Interesting developements. Another Cuban Missle Crisis on the horizon?

I'm sure Homeland Security et al are keenly aware of the problem of sneaking both marijuana and nuclear materials across the 49th...that is unless you think they aren't doing their job or that perhaps they are simply incompetent. Not many terrorist attacks in the US lately...if any. As mentioned, a real nuclear weapon would be difficult to sneak in anywhere under today's detection gear. Human traffic...much harder to stop...but not impossible.

Russia is indeed playing a dangerous game of let's relive the glorious past. However a few Bears or Blackjacks in Cuba is more a spy threat than a military threat. Heck, they've been spotted off the coast of my province over the past months.

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As far back as I can remember I've wanted to be a gangster...

---

[GostHacked]

I'm sure Homeland Security et al are keenly aware of the problem of sneaking both marijuana and nuclear materials across the 49th...that is unless you think they aren't doing their job or that perhaps they are simply incompetent. Not many terrorist attacks in the US lately...if any. As mentioned, a real nuclear weapon would be difficult to sneak in anywhere under today's detection gear. Human traffic...much harder to stop...but not impossible.

Check the date of the article. It was just over one year ago when they did the tests. So today's detection gear is either not adequate, or not even in place. Even with a beaurocratic government it would take years before anything was really done about it. I recall those tests when they were done. Now you are right as time goes on the technology should be there to detect these types of things. It could be that case now. But they also indicate that the US/Mexico border is more secure.

Russia is indeed playing a dangerous game of let's relive the glorious past. However a few Bears or Blackjacks in Cuba is more a spy threat than a military threat. Heck, they've been spotted off the coast of my province over the past months.

I don't think they are reliving a glorious past. Nor do I think they want to. Like the US , Russia has interests around the planet. It's hey if they can do it .. so can we. It would not be hard to put missles back into cuba.

[DogOnPorch]

Check the date of the article. It was just over one year ago when they did the tests. So today's detection gear is either not adequate, or not even in place. Even with a beaurocratic government it would take years before anything was really done about it. I recall those tests when they were done. Now you are right as time goes on the technology should be there to detect these types of things. It could be that case now. But they also indicate that the US/Mexico border is more secure.

I don't think they are reliving a glorious past. Nor do I think they want to. Like the US , Russia has interests around the planet. It's hey if they can do it .. so can we. It would not be hard to put missles back into cuba.

lol...you know so much about nuclear weapons and what the "spooks" are doing that they should hire you. Seems you'd be able to point out the obvious to these moronic louts at HLS and CSIS.

As far as Russia goes: huge inferiority complex, still. Actually had a May Day military parade/mass fly over like yea olde days. Putin and Co. (Medvedev, etc) acting like the old Commie leaders...as you mentioned...provocative air patrols and mock attacks on US carriers....

So how isn't this like 1978, again??

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It is absolutely unacceptable for one country to threaten another for acts that are not aggressive in character. The eventual construction of the shield is not directed against Russia.

---Michal Kaminski: Polish government aid re: Putin's and Medvedev's nuclear threats

[DogOnPorch]

I forgot to mention that if a terrorist nuclear attack of some sort occurs, my money would be on some sort of device hidden in a container onboard a container ship. The weapon could be rather large at that point with nobody being the wiser. Could be detonated out in the harbour well before anyone has even a chance at finding it through random inspection once it hits port.

But you are correct in that stuff does indeed get across. I think it would take some sort of new 'event' to really see some sort of real ramp-up of security. Seriously...8000km long. Hire 60,000 border rangers/guards?

However...and I've mentioned this elsewhere...the real terrorist nightmare resides in a poorly guarded facility on what once was an island in the Aral Sea and at the Vector Institute in Novosibirsk. It's in the form of weaponized India 1967 hemorrhagic smallpox that is still waiting for destruction. You might imagine the horror of realeasing that into the population @ large. I wonder who's guarding it....??

Here's a scary documentary re: weaponized smallpox.

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...but what renders the Cow Pox virus so extremely singular, is that the person who has been thus affected is for ever after secure from the infection of the Small Pox...

---Edward Jenner: 1798

[GostHacked]

19uote name='DogOnPorch' date='Jul 27 2008, 07:10 PM' post='325793']

lol...you know so much about nuclear weapons and what the "spooks" are doing that they should hire you. Seems you'd be able to point out the obvious to these moronic louts at HLS and CSIS.

It is not a point of me knowing more about nuclear weapons (I really don't know much about them) , but one can EASILY look at the date of the article and can come to a conclusion that the border is not prepared to intercept dirty bombs. Don't take MY word for it. Take theirs.

So how isn't this like 1978, again??

I guess I need to know the 1978 reference and what happened then. I'll get back to you.

I forgot to mention that if a terrorist nuclear attack of some sort occurs, my money would be on some sort of device hidden in a container onboard a container ship. The weapon could be rather large at that point with nobody being the wiser. Could be detonated out in the harbour well before anyone has even a chance at finding it through random inspection once it hits port.

There was a ship that blew up in the Halifax harbour in the early part of the 1900's. This boat has munitions on it. It caught fire then just blew. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halifax_Explosion. A nuclear device would do a lot more damage.

Could this re-emerging Cold War II, be a distration on the failed war on terror?? When terrorism goes away, what will be there to replace it?

[HisSelf]

A full scale nuclear disarmament right now would sure taste good.

Of course it could not possibly be as important as eradicating poppies in Afghanistan, cocaine in Columbia, Marc Emery in British Columbia....

Please sir. Can we have full nuclear disarmament now?

[eyeball]

I'm sure Homeland Security et al are keenly aware of the problem of sneaking both marijuana and nuclear materials across the 49th...that is unless you think they aren't doing their job or that perhaps they are simply incompetent. Not many terrorist attacks in the US lately...if any.

Lots of drugs are still getting in though, which suggest 9/11 was a one-off attack that happened to be spectacularily and unforseenly effective. It also indicates that Homeland Security is in fact incompetent.

[HisSelf]

Lots of drugs are still getting in though, which suggest 9/11 was a one-off attack that happened to be spectacularily and unforseenly effective. It also indicates that Homeland Security is in fact incompetent.

Homeland Security didn't exist then.

What happened was that airline security was spectacularly innefffective.

What we have here is a classic case. A neighbourhood intersection is notorious for pedestrian kills. The neighbours clamour for a cross-walk, only to be ignored. One day a whole kindergarten full of kids gets mowed down by a drunk.

Laird thundering' Jaysus!

Homeland Security in a nutshell.

Just think how different he world would be right now if those idiots had not been able to get access to the flight deck.

Just sayin'

[eyeball]

Some seem to be claiming that no terrorist attacks since 9/11 is proof that Homeland Security is competently doing its job but the fact that so many drugs are still getting through raises a lot of doubt about that. If the border is as tight as the claim implies there should be next to no drugs getting in either, but there are. I don't think this is a case of comparing apples and oranges in light of the belief that millions of Islamofacists are looking for ways to attack America. Millions of tons of drugs, millions of terrorists...what's the difference? Homeland Security should be interdicting equal amounts of both if they're both there.

Here's a clue, perhaps there really are no terrorists or at least nowhere near as many that are imagined.

Edited July 29, 2008 by eyeball

[obsidian]

"Shanghai Six" and the Collective Security Organization are to React to American Missile Defence Plans

Voice of Russia

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?con...va&aid=9671

Russia: Iran to remain SCO observer

Persian Journal

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?con...va&aid=9687

Energy and arms dominate Russia-Venezuela talks

Russia Today

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?con...va&aid=9680

Putin wants closer military ties with Venezuela

RIA Novosti

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?con...va&aid=9647

Russia’s "New Order" of security relations incorporating the US, Russia and the European Union

F. William Engdahl

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?con...va&aid=9641 (yes i know its already added but did you read it..)

As both sides are stepping up their war games.

LISTEN TO BushCheney2004 & AmericanWoman, I urge you, these are non issues. Trifles. They cannot and will not affect us in any way no matter how inevitable they seem or may become. They are only figments of y/our overactive imagination, the only thing you should fear, other than god, is the TERRORISTS!

Edited July 30, 2008 by obsidian

[bush_cheney2004]

....LISTEN TO BushCheney2004 & AmericanWoman, I urge you, these are non issues. Trifles. They cannot and will not affect us in any way no matter how inevitable they seem or may become. They are only figments of y/our overactive imagination, the only thing you should fear, other than god, is the TERRORISTS!

...and seemingly you should fear whatever the Americans are doing or not doing, so inconsequential your station be.

[obsidian]

America isn't that important, sorry.

[bush_cheney2004]

America isn't that important, sorry.

Then why do you obsess about it? Ignore America...if you can.

[GostHacked]

Then why do you obsess about it? Ignore America...if you can.

Well, it is hard to when it is in our face all the time .... but go ahead and ignore Canada whenever you want.

Eyball

Lots of drugs are still getting in though, which suggest 9/11 was a one-off attack that happened to be spectacularily and unforseenly effective. It also indicates that Homeland Security is in fact incompetent.

Lisa "If I told you this rock keeps bears away, would you buy it?"

Homer "I'll give you five dollars for it."

Lisa *sighs*.

Fool and money are parted.

Right now HLS can claim that they are doing the job. The People can claim it as well. But when (not if) the next terror attack on US soil happens, people will be saying that HLS is not effective.

Here's a clue, perhaps there really are no terrorists or at least nowhere near as many that are imagined.

This is my line of thinking as well.