How come nobody cares about Zimbabwe?

[Argus]

Oh the Lefties were in their element, weren't they!? Marching and chanting, demanding companies divest themselves, demanding sanctions, protesting against Rhodesian sports teams, holding meetings, oh they were all so righteous in the cause of freedom! Few Canadian newspapers let a day go by without at least one front page story with screaming headlines about the evils being perpetrated on the innocent citizenry.

And those of us who looked at Mugabe and cynically said that their first free election would be their last free election were dismissed as evil racist apartheid supporters.

And, of course, their first free election WAS their last free election, and Mugabe promptly brought over secret police from North Korea to help train his own security forces.

Yet it's not until NOW, that the world is all bemoaning the lack of free elections - as if the last few were anything approaching free. And where are all the Lefties marching in the cause of freedom, demanding disinvestment, demanding sanctions? Nowhere to be seen. They couldn't care less. Harper announced some limited response, but I can't help wondering why we even have to have any relationship with Mugabe. Why don't we break relations and withdraw our ambassador? I'm sure Mugabe wouldn't care but it would be a signal to the world, and it would save money since we wouldn't have to keep up an embassy in what has become a fourth world banana republic country.

Zimbabwe was better off as Rhodesia under Ian Smith and Apartheid, than it is now. Much better off.

[DogOnPorch]

It is indeed sad as Rhodesia was one of the richest countries on the planet. The stories re: white farmers being forced off their land or murdered by Mugabe's thugs are heartbreaking. South Africa is another. While doing well as a nation, has its own reverse apartheid going on against the remaining whites. Race based employment laws in particular. Nobody cares about that, either.

--------------------------------------

It may be necessary to use methods other than constitutional ones.

---Robert Mugabe

[eyeball]

Mugabe's a pig there's no doubt about it. Speaking for myself though, I've accepted the futility of militarily interfering in the affairs of other people. I do care but I've borrowed a page from the tough love approach. Its better to let nature take its course because democracy and human rights seem to evolve best on their own. We should certainly offer humanitarian aid where we can and help uplift countries that are willing and able to help themselves but our military should be strictly for our own homeland defence only.

[Remiel]

If Smith had not insisted on fighting a war instead of coming to a negotiated settlement, perhaps things would have gone differently.

The Rhodesian government and the black nationalists met at Victoria Falls in August 1975 for negotiations brokered by South Africa and Zambia, but the talks never got beyond the procedural phase.[11] Rhodesian representatives made it clear they were prepared to fight an all out war to prevent majority rule.[12]

“ Having let slip one chance after another of reaching an accommodation with more moderate black leaders, Rhodesia's whites seem to have made the tragic choice of facing black nationalism over the barrel of a gun rather than the conference table. The downhill road toward a race war in Rhodesia is becoming increasingly slippery with blood. ”

Rand Daily Mail editorial, May 1976[13]

And then there is this wonderful little bit about what may have been helping to cause conflict after the election...

During the Bush War of the 1970s some white farmers were able to carry on operations due to the tolerance of guerrilla commanders (who did not want to damage vital economic assets) and/or by paying protection money to those commanders.[39] The super-ZAPU insurgency of the early 1980s was much less manageable. Super-ZAPU targeted white farmers, missionaries and tourists on the grounds that their murders would make "international headlines."[40]

“ ...then the super-ZAPU element came in and this really unseated us – South Africa targeting white farmers. I mean it changed a few perspectives, I can tell you... ”

Ed Cumming, Matabeleland white farmer

Nothing stirs up anti-democratic paranoia like other countries stirring up an insurgency within your own borders.

I will not deny that Mugabe blew it, but as per the usual, a substantial portion of the dynamite came from the IMF it seems.

Social programs

According to a 1995 World Bank report, after independence, "Zimbabwe gave priority to human resource investments and support for smallholder agriculture," and as a result, "smallholder agriculture expanded rapidly during the first half of the 1980s and social indicators improved quickly." From 1980 to 1990 infant mortality decreased from 86 to 49 per 1000 live births, under five mortality was reduced from 128 to 58 per 1000 live births, and immunisation increased from 25% to 80% of the population. Also, "child malnutrition fell from 22% to 12% and life expectancy increased from 56 to 64. By 1990, Zimbabwe had a lower infant mortality rate, higher adult literacy and higher school enrollment rate than average for developing countries".[34]

In 1991, the government of Zimbabwe, short on hard currency and under international pressure, embarked on an austerity program. The World Bank's 1995 report explained that such reforms were required because Zimbabwe was unable to absorb into its labour market the many graduates from its impressive education system and that it needed to attract additional foreign investments. The reforms, however, undermined the livelihoods of Zimbabwe's poor majority; the report noted "large segments of the population, including most smallholder farmers and small scale enterprises, find themselves in a vulnerable position with limited capacity to respond to evolving market opportunities. This is due to their limited access to natural, technical and financial resources, to the contraction of many public services for smallholder agriculture, and to their still nascent links with larger scale enterprises."

Moreover, these people were forced to live on marginal lands as Zimbabwe's best lands were reserved for mainly white landlords growing cash crops for export, a sector of the economy favoured by the IMF's plan. For the poor on the communal lands, "existing levels of production in these areas are now threatened by the environmental fragility of the natural resource base and the unsustainability of existing farming practices".[34] The International Monetary Fund later suspended aid, saying reforms were "not on track."

According to the World Health Organisation (WHO), life expectancy at birth for Zimbabwean men is 37 years and is 34 years for women, the lowest such figures for any nation.[35] The World Bank's 1995 report predicted this decline in life expectancy from its 1990 height of 64 years when, commenting on health care system cuts mandated by the IMF structural adjustment programme, it stated that "The decline in resources is creating strains and threatening the sustainability of health sector achievements".[34]

The Zimbabwe dollar suffers from the highest Inflation rate of any currency in the world. Zimbabwe official statistics reveal that the annualised inflation rate for September 2006 was 1000%. The International Monetary Fund (IMF), in its World Economic Outlook database, reported inflation in 2006 at 1216%.[36] Inflation reached 9,000% on June 21, 2007,[37] and 11,000% on June 22, 2007.[38] It continues to climb rapidly, and was reported to exceed 100,000% as of April 2008,[39] and estimated to be 4,000,000% in June 2008.[40]

While Zimbabwe has suffered in many other measures under Mugabe, as a former schoolteacher he has been well-known for his commitment to education.[7] However, Catholic Archbishop of Zimbabwe Pius Ncube decried the educational situation in the country, saying, among other scathing indictments of Mugabe, "We had the best education in Africa and now our schools are closing".[41]

It is all nice and well to compare the Zimbabwe of today to the Rhodesia of yesterday, but in all likelihood Rhodesia could have been sent down the same crap shute during the heyday of the SAPs.

If Mugabe were a younger man, perhaps the international community would be in a bigger hurry to get rid of him, but when the guy has one foot in the grave already, there is too much of a temptation to let time to the work.

[moderateamericain]

If Smith had not insisted on fighting a war instead of coming to a negotiated settlement, perhaps things would have gone differently.

And then there is this wonderful little bit about what may have been helping to cause conflict after the election...

Nothing stirs up anti-democratic paranoia like other countries stirring up an insurgency within your own borders.

I will not deny that Mugabe blew it, but as per the usual, a substantial portion of the dynamite came from the IMF it seems.

It is all nice and well to compare the Zimbabwe of today to the Rhodesia of yesterday, but in all likelihood Rhodesia could have been sent down the same crap shute during the heyday of the SAPs.

If Mugabe were a younger man, perhaps the international community would be in a bigger hurry to get rid of him, but when the guy has one foot in the grave already, there is too much of a temptation to let time to the work.

I know this is kind of a crappy response to a really well thought out post. But i worked 70 hours last week. So let me just say Africa is cursed.

[Michael Hardner]

Oh the Lefties were in their element, weren't they!? Marching and chanting, demanding companies divest themselves, demanding sanctions, protesting against Rhodesian sports teams, holding meetings, oh they were all so righteous in the cause of freedom! Few Canadian newspapers let a day go by without at least one front page story with screaming headlines about the evils being perpetrated on the innocent citizenry.

Argus, you're right.

This is an example of why GroupThink will kill us. Often, people will look to their political peers for a response to a situation rather than thinking it through for themselves. It's all about people aligning themselves into tribes - which is a human failing as well as a curse.

This situation pervades everything political. The debate about Global Warming, for example, is fought along right/left lines when there are major fallacies with both positions. Too often, the debate ends up being about which side you're on.

It would be nice if it were different, but unfortunately humans don't easily organize into groups of even-handed committee men who objectively sift through facts in order to determine the best solution.

[GostHacked]

Argus, you're right.

This is an example of why GroupThink will kill us.

--

It would be nice if it were different, but unfortunately humans don't easily organize into groups of even-handed committee men who objectively sift through facts in order to determine the best solution.

And some of us don't fit into any of those groups. And yes the GroupThink (how Orwellian can you get) will be a downfall. The crowd overall says YES, eventhought most think NO, but why go against the grain? Why stand alone? Why go against what you think is correct? Why do people let others control what they think and how they think?

And to those who have worked 70 hours last week.... my heart bleeds.

[peter_puck]

Yet it's not until NOW, that the world is all bemoaning the lack of free elections - as if the last few were anything approaching free.

The lack of free elections have been "bemoaned" for a while. The US and Europe first starting imposing sanctions at the start of the decade.

[Oleg Bach]

The lack of free elections have been "bemoaned" for a while. The US and Europe first starting imposing sanctions at the start of the decade.

The Angloites care about as much for this former colony as much as they cared for Jamacia once they had used the place up and dumped their slaves to live in lawless chaos and brutality..some of which we foolishly imported into Canada under the idea of liberal social benevolent guilt.

[bush_cheney2004]

The Angloites care about as much for this former colony as much as they cared for Jamacia once they had used the place up and dumped their slaves to live in lawless chaos and brutality..some of which we foolishly imported into Canada under the idea of liberal social benevolent guilt.

Hell, Canada had plenty of its own slaves long before that.

[Oleg Bach]

Hell, Canada had plenty of its own slaves long before that.

We still have thrawls (slaves) that are enthrawled and work hard jobs and spend their money on cocaine and booze...yes my friend these hyper active trolls are everywhere and there is no other way to describe this new chemically enduced servatude other than slavery..slavery is also rampant in the USA in the massive form of debt to China..when you own billions to China - in what is ultimately service...is servatude. Our globalist buisness elite trade in people. When you owe a trillion to another group you sell your people...perfect example are the GM workers...they were sold and sold out.

[bush_cheney2004]

We still have thrawls (slaves) that are enthrawled and work hard jobs and spend their money on cocaine and booze...yes my friend these hyper active trolls are everywhere and there is no other way to describe this new chemically enduced servatude other than slavery..slavery is also rampant in the USA in the massive form of debt to China..when you own billions to China - in what is ultimately service...is servatude. Our globalist buisness elite trade in people. When you owe a trillion to another group you sell your people...perfect example are the GM workers...they were sold and sold out.

Tough noogies.....whiners and losers deserve their self inflicted slavery.

[Oleg Bach]

Tough noogies.....whiners and losers deserve their self inflicted slavery.

There is one problem..unless you are wealthy enough to ensure your own true privacey and security..you are surrounded by these drolling clonish drones on dope..and they bore you to death...but I guess all that dope money goes into the banking system eventually and cocaine is part of the economy..Having said that - if the powers that be wanted to eliminate cocaine..they could and would..but that would cut into profits and profits are more emportant than our about to fall youth and those in their 30s who destroy themselves ----- I simply don't want to look at this slaughter of the soul and body...it is so unpleasant and irritating.

[bush_cheney2004]

There is one problem..unless you are wealthy enough to ensure your own true privacey and security..you are surrounded by these drolling clonish drones on dope..and they bore you to death...but I guess all that dope money goes into the banking system eventually and cocaine is part of the economy..Having said that - if the powers that be wanted to eliminate cocaine..they could and would..but that would cut into profits and profits are more emportant than our about to fall youth and those in their 30s who destroy themselves ----- I simply don't want to look at this slaughter of the soul and body...it is so unpleasant and irritating.

Correct...profits are more important. We abort millions more than the "about to fall youth". Plenty more where those came from.

[Oleg Bach]

Correct...profits are more important. We abort millions more than the "about to fall youth". Plenty more where those came from.

I see and appreciate you point..as I mature - I have come to the conclution that most people are oblivious to the big picture and no messiah is coming to save those not knowing they are in dire straights. I just find de-civilization hard to look at...it's unpleasant and distressing. I still feel sorry for the stupid...from a biblical point of view "The poor will always be with us" - a possible translation because of poor breeding and training...THE STUPID WILL ALWAYS BE WITH US> Maybe it's time for me to stop feeling sorry for those who will never feel sorry for me....I guess...I have gotten to the point where my youthful idealizm is now pragmatic.....so I will say this now and move on - to hell with them....good night

[bush_cheney2004]

.... Maybe it's time for me to stop feeling sorry for those who will never feel sorry for me....I guess...I have gotten to the point where my youthful idealizm is now pragmatic.....so I will say this now and move on - to hell with them....good night

Free your mind and your ass will follow.....buenas noches.

[Argus]

If Smith had not insisted on fighting a war instead of coming to a negotiated settlement, perhaps things would have gone differently

Perhaps, but very unlikely. There were no successful democracies, or even slightly successful at that time. I can't say there are many even now. Smith was looking at the prospect of handing over power to a community which, for the most part, could not read or write and had only the most cursory familiarity with democratic ideals, and whose leadership were primarily Marxists.

I will not deny that Mugabe blew it, but as per the usual, a substantial portion of the dynamite came from the IMF it seems

I don't think the IMF had him bring in security advisors from North Korea or evict all the white farmers

It is all nice and well to compare the Zimbabwe of today to the Rhodesia of yesterday, but in all likelihood Rhodesia could have been sent down the same crap shute during the heyday of the SAPs.

Maybe. Certainly the liberal west did all it could to damage Rhodesia's economy, while African states waged a relentless political war and provided sanctuary to Marxist guerrillas. According to today's paper, btw, Mugabe was warmly received at the African Union meetings. Unsurprising that their much publicized interest in freeing the people of that region only existed so long as the oppressors were White.

Much like the liberal West, really.

BTW, I put this thread under Canadian politics more to discuss our reaction and behaviour than Zimbabwe itself. So again I ask - why don't we break off all diplomatic relations with Zimbabwe? Why these token gestures?

[Remiel]

What exactly would you have us do? Last time they tried sanctions in Rhodesia, all it did was provide the conditions for white farmers to start competing in the markets that black farmers ruled, sending their domestic share tumbling from 65% to 30%, which probably did not help the troubles that came later. What do you expect severing diplomatic ties to accomplish that is not merely symbolic?

[Argus]

What exactly would you have us do? Last time they tried sanctions in Rhodesia, all it did was provide the conditions for white farmers to start competing in the markets that black farmers ruled, sending their domestic share tumbling from 65% to 30%, which probably did not help the troubles that came later. What do you expect severing diplomatic ties to accomplish that is not merely symbolic?

Whether it does anything to or for Zimbabwe it makes a statement about how Canada feels towards illigitimate governments.

I understand why we need to have diplomatic relationships with the likes of China and Russia, despite the fact they're run by murdering thugs, but I fail to see why we need to stroke the egos of third world rat hole dictators by establishing embassies and treating them as legitimate entities. We should cut relations with countries like Zimbabwe, and refuse to recognize their existence, trade with them, or have any other relationships with them.

[Remiel]

We could refuse to trade with them, but that is likely to hurt the common folk more than it does the elites and Mugabe. But we cannot refuse to recognize the existence of some countries out of hand, just because we dislike them. If everyone did that (refused to recognize other countires on a whim), it would undermine the stability of the entire system of international relations for everyone, not just those countries that you dislike.

[guyser]

We could refuse to trade with them, but that is likely to hurt the common folk more than it does the elites and Mugabe..

I dont think we could hurt them anymore than they are. The average monthly wage is less than the cost of one can of coke. A close friend of mine works there on behalf of Oxfam.

Beautiful city, gorgeous paved boulevards lined with trees...but no power to run the lights nor anything else. All relief workers are bussed to outside the country to shop.

But dont worry, the chinese have moved in and taken over numerous farms.

[blueblood]

I dont think we could hurt them anymore than they are. The average monthly wage is less than the cost of one can of coke. A close friend of mine works there on behalf of Oxfam.

Beautiful city, gorgeous paved boulevards lined with trees...but no power to run the lights nor anything else. All relief workers are bussed to outside the country to shop.

But dont worry, the chinese have moved in and taken over numerous farms.

If the chinese took over those numerous farms, they're still in trouble.

Commies + Agriculture = Problem.

They'd be better off letting Canadians and Americans take care of that front.

[HisSelf]

Argus, your post is a steaming pile as usual. Why is it that Bush can invade Iraq and cite freedom as his motive while Mugabe gets only a tut-tut from Condy (former oil exec) Rice?

Could it be that Mugabe has nothing to sell but farmland? Who cares what goes on in that stinking poverty laden chaos, right? People like you surrendered Africa to China. Live with that.

What a surprise, Argus. You once again show us that, for you, it is "All about Israel".

[Rue]

Argus, your post is a steaming pile as usual. Why is it that Bush can invade Iraq and cite freedom as his motive while Mugabe gets only a tut-tut from Condy (former oil exec) Rice?

Could it be that Mugabe has nothing to sell but farmland? Who cares what goes on in that stinking poverty laden chaos, right? People like you surrendered Africa to China. Live with that.

What a surprise, Argus. You once again show us that, for you, it is "All about Israel".

Lol how you get to Israel out of this is amazing but not I can't say I am surprised. When in doubt in regards to any discussion, throw in the world Israel or Zionist to distract from the issue right?

The issue in case you didn't notice was Zimbabwe.

And just so you know yes we already know it is Israel's fault.

Thanks.

[HisSelf]

Lol how you get to Israel out of this is amazing but not I can't say I am surprised. When in doubt in regards to any discussion, throw in the world Israel or Zionist to distract from the issue right?

The issue in case you didn't notice was Zimbabwe.

And just so you know yes we already know it is Israel's fault.

Thanks.

Who said anything about Zionists, ?