Liberal Fascists

[scribblet]

It is the Liberals who don't support free speech and like to muzzle opposing views. It is Stephanie Dion who wants his Liberal MP to withdraw his free speech bill, not conservatives.

Canadian leftists say they hate facism and naziizm, but they seem to espouse it by wanting the same things the NSP of Germany, wanted suppression of free speech and rights.

[gc1765]

Liberalism IS fundamentally more dangerous than traditional Conservatism for the following simple reason:

Liberals and the left are much more likely to believe in a big, central, strong government.

Conservatives are ideologically more entranced around the individual.

I disagree. Liberals want smaller government in a lot of areas. Liberals typically want the government out of their lives on social issues - abortion, gay marriage, marijuana, prostitution etc... You could argue that liberals want bigger government when it comes to spending, but there are many people, like myself, who most people would consider to be "liberal", that believe in small government.

IMO, authoritarianism is not really left vs. right. Just because someone who is authoritarian has left-wing or right-wing views does not mean that most left-wingers or right-wingers believe in authoritarianism. That would be like saying thieves are people who like money, therefore anyone who likes money is a thief.

[bush_cheney2004]

one need only look at George Bush, who has a very big spending, big secret , big budget, big deficit, etc.,

But hey, it's better to buy falsehoods, then look at facts.

Actually, Democrat FDR did more of these things than Bush or Reagan. But don't let facts sway your opinion.

[BubberMiley]

FDR? Had to go back aways for that one!

[bush_cheney2004]

FDR? Had to go back aways for that one!

If one is going to rely on American history do demonstrate a strained point, one should know what one is talking about.

Carry on.....

[BubberMiley]

But Goldberg's point was that the 1930s and 40s were a fascist time and the New Deal sprung out of that. Strangely though, he exempts the massive deficits accumulated by Republican governments in modern times and focuses squarely on Democrats in his criticism. So prescription drug plans that the Democrats came up with are fascist, while government surveillance under the massive Homeland Security department doesn't even rate a mention.

[bush_cheney2004]

But Goldberg's point was that the 1930s and 40s were a fascist time and the New Deal sprung out of that. Strangely though, he exempts the massive deficits accumulated by Republican governments in modern times and focuses squarely on Democrats in his criticism. So prescription drug plans that the Democrats came up with are fascist, while government surveillance under the massive Homeland Security department doesn't even rate a mention.

Which "Republican" government? Did Reagan have a Republican Congress? Does President Bush today? Are you familiar with the origins of Medicare and Medicaid programs in the USA? Analysis will defy any such simple minded "fascist" label by political party.

Edited February 2, 2008 by bush_cheney2004

[JerrySeinfeld]

Hey, the lievly debate on this thread proves that Goldberg has achieved what was probably intended: he has levelled the playing field. For far too long the left have had the market cornered on namecalling and demonization.

Finally they have been exposed, and the discussion has been opened up regarding the very same BS they accuse of their right wing counterparts.

HEAR HEAR!

[kuzadd]

Exactly why he has eroded so much of his support in the republican party.

He was pretty left wing in his spending on social programs.

yeah the Bush gov is infamous for it's "social program" spending , supporting the "social programs" of enriching the military industrial complex and giving hand-outs ( instead of hand-ups) to big oil. ETC.,

Haliburton has certainly been on the dole!

The humanitarian agency of Blackwater USA has been another recepient of "social" program spending , as has been the bogus ethanol industry.

[kuzadd]

It is the Liberals who don't support free speech and like to muzzle opposing views. It is Stephanie Dion who wants his Liberal MP to withdraw his free speech bill, not conservatives.

Canadian leftists say they hate facism and naziizm, but they seem to espouse it by wanting the same things the NSP of Germany, wanted suppression of free speech and rights.

Stephanie Dion??

who is that?

[kuzadd]

Hey, the lievly debate on this thread proves that Goldberg has achieved what was probably intended: he has levelled the playing field. For far too long the left have had the market cornered on namecalling and demonization.

Finally they have been exposed, and the discussion has been opened up regarding the very same BS they accuse of their right wing counterparts.

HEAR HEAR!

He hasn't levelled the playing field? If anything his book is full if name calling/labelling?

Thats levelling the field?

Who is they , that have been exposed.

From my tiny bit of reading on this book, I can only conclude the "author" is trying to revise history.

[kuzadd]

Jerry:

a book for your author or you?

The Mass Psychology of Fascism

by Wilhelm Reich, 1933

In this classic study, Reich provides insight into the phenomenon of fascism, which continues to ravage the international community in ways great and small.

Drawing on his medical expereinces with men and women of various classes, races, nations, and religious beliefs, Reich refutes the still generally held notion that fascism is a specific characteristic of certain nationalities or a political party ideology that is imposed on innocent people by means of force or political manneuvers. "Fascism on only the organized political expression of the structure of the average man's character. It is the basic emotional civilization and its mechanistic-mystical conception of life."—Wilhelm Reich

Responsibility for the elimination of fascism thus results with the masses of average people who might otherwise support and champion it.

http://www.nickcooper.com/mass.htm

some excerpts available at above link

"One cannot make the fascist harmless if one looks for fascism in others, one must look for the fascist in oneself."

"in it's pure form fascism is the sum total of all irrational reactions of the average human character.

"Fascism is a CREATION of a race hatred and it's organized political expression"

Some have said he predicted succesfully the rise of fascism in germany.

Very interesting, very old piece of literature.

His other works were on sexuality pretty scary stuff for fascists.

Edited February 4, 2008 by kuzadd

[scribblet]

Hey, the lievly debate on this thread proves that Goldberg has achieved what was probably intended: he has levelled the playing field. For far too long the left have had the market cornered on namecalling and demonization.

Finally they have been exposed, and the discussion has been opened up regarding the very same BS they accuse of their right wing counterparts.

HEAR HEAR!

I'll second that -

[Shady]

I started reading the book about a week ago. His thesis is amazing, and historically accurate. Unfortunately in this thread, some people have distorted his arguments exactly the way he wrote would be the case in the introduction. He explicitly makes the point that he's NOT saying that if you have a position on an issue in which fascists from the 20's and 30's had, it DOES NOT mean you're a fascist. It seems to me there are some liberal fascists in this thread, who have denounced ideas in a book they haven't read.

[eyeball]

Well some lefties spent a pile on huge militaries as well. The USSR and China come to mind, their proxy wars with the states weren't free either.

The leaders of all three super-powers have always had more in common where it really counts.

May I remind people of that other polarized axis on the Political Compass.

Right vs left is so passe. The real struggle is betwen the Libertarian and Authoritarian ends of the spectrum, the rulers vs the ruled. Always has been

Are you with us or are you with them?

Edited February 19, 2008 by eyeball

[Black Dog]

Canadian leftists say they hate facism and naziizm, but they seem to espouse it by wanting the same things the NSP of Germany, wanted suppression of free speech and rights..

Because the Nazis the only people ever who suppressed free speech?

Hey, the lievly debate on this thread proves that Goldberg has achieved what was probably intended: he has levelled the playing field. For far too long the left have had the market cornered on namecalling and demonization.

Finally they have been exposed, and the discussion has been opened up regarding the very same BS they accuse of their right wing counterparts.

HEAR HEAR!

Except most people got over "I know you are but what am I" as a defense before entering middle school, not middle age.

[eyeball]

Don't call me lefty, righty.

Don't call me righty, lefty.

[runningdog]

What did the hippies (liberal buggers eh?) do for us? They certainly were not "conformists".

Ha ha ha right back atcha...

Bush has learned very much from Hitler. Hitler was a fascist, therefore Bush is a fascist. Just look at America today: "paperz pleeze".

The rightwing has slid right down the rabbit hole into fascism.

Very interesting that Chimpy Bushs' granddaddy financed the Nazis during ww2...not that Curious george would EVER do such a terrible thing

[Regulus de Leo]

Very interesting that Chimpy Bushs' granddaddy financed the Nazis during ww2...not that Curious george would EVER do such a terrible thing

"Financed the Nazis?" Hardly. He served as a director on companies that made money on German investments. Some of those companies were involved with the Nazis. A tenuous connection. The interests were financial and many German businessmen hoped the Nazis could be controlled and would return financial stability to Germany. American investors were removed and had a financial interest in the bottom line of German companies which is exactly what we would expect would motivate foreign investors.

[JB Globe]

How entertaining.

You guys all think "the other side" is responsible for all the world's problems.

It's almost cute.

[stignasty]

How entertaining.

You guys all think "the other side" is responsible for all the world's problems.

It's almost cute.

Only if by "cute" you mean "nauseating."

[stignasty]

This thread (and much of this forum) reminds me of the Barbershop in Flannery O'Connor's story.

http://tinyurl.com/38pe72

[Jerry Galinda]

"and FDR incorporated fascist policies in the New Deal."

and John Maynard Keynes was a fascist

[Brain Candy]

Im pretty sure you could twist logic enough to call any party fascist, Its a pointless direction and a dead end in debate anyway.

[Jerry Galinda]

Im pretty sure you could twist logic enough to call any party fascist, Its a pointless direction and a dead end in debate anyway.

That's true -but e.g.

"On his return to the United States, James Burnham coedited the journal Symposium with Philip E. Wheelwright, his former philosophy teacher at Princeton, and taught philosophy at New York University (NYU). At NYU, Burnham fell under the influence of Sidney Hook, who was busily grafting John Dewey’s philosophy onto Marxism—a doctrinal blend with all the charms of a coral snake crossed with a rattler. Thus, from 1932 or so, Burnham took up Marxism, gravitating to the Trotskyist movement. From this vantage point, he characterized the New Deal as “fascist”—a judgment Kelly seems to find eccentric—and became the faculty adviser to the Young Communist League at NYU.'

For leftist -everything may be fascism.