Army Guy

what did you expect....that we would all fall to your feet, and give thanks to the gods for sending you....you don't want to debate anything you want to climb up on the stool and be heard....OK your turn is over...time to step down....we heard you...come back when you want to debate....

No where did i state that i was in favour of torture, In fact i did state the exact opposite, i firmly believe that torture is wrong and as a nation and military we should abide by the genva convention...your the reporter you tell me.... Thanks for the warning, this is a public forum and i'm aware of all the pitfalls that come along with using it. And yes i did screw up by letting my personal opinions into my posts, won't happen again...but then again i'm sure that if you wanted to you could twist anything to suit your purpose.... and once again i do not support the use of torture, nor did i say i did....

Does it, desparation is a double edged sword, and it looks like your trying to make a reputation on the backs of others....as for me hey i'm a big boy slam away....as for barly readable, you made out just fine....i'll work on the spelling you work on your people skills. Now your some gun slinger for hire, going to clean out your little town here, hell i'll do it for free....i'll lock up all them mis spelling , war mongering, little bastards.... you get what you sow, nothing more nothing less....

I don't know if i'm up to the challange, i mean your what 10 feet tall, and have an IQ of well over 200, i mean you can spell big words like macaroni, and your quick with the come backs who can compete....i mean you did say you tried the military, and i can see why you quit your way to smart...guys like you should be running the country.... Yes i did quote the party line, and said that water boarding is torture and as a nation, we should not be involved in such activity. I also said that i did not care what happened to those prisoners after we hand them over....but then again i'm a little baised, after seeing what those scumbags do to thier own people, cutting off a childs hands for going to school, stripping all of a mans skin off and leaving him to die in the sun, kind of does that....so as a soldier, i do follow the party line, and enforce those rules, ensuring that all the soldiers under my command do so as well....but do i lose any sleep at night wondering what happens to those we handed over...no i don't... Yes i believe i'm qualified , but you've yet to state your qualifications, what makes your opinion right, and others wrong. My opinion is just that mine and mine alone, at no time did i say i was speaking for the entire military....

Why don't you start with the orginal question, i asked "why is'nt Canada involved in Darfur"... or do i have to lead off with a personal attack your call.

WOW...now who is calling the kettle black.

I'm begining to think you don't have a love for anything thats not in your tiny circle... So really what your saying is that if my beliefs and values do not fall under yours i'm being played....that i'm incapable of forming my own opinion. WOW, whats next, anyone living in a trailer park is on welfare, those kind of remarks could be considered some what racist don't you think....Been slapped around alittle on the forums so nows your chance to strike back, pick on the army guy...... So thats your measure of a person if you can hack it out civy street your a genius, i guess ...then your the man...you must hold some very important job, high up on the food chain, why don't you let some uneducated military "TYPE" in on your secret....how'd you do it... Another qualification, for success you need to spell.... damn, and big words like macaroni....shit thats one i should have down pat as it's the only one i can afford....wait a minute let me check my T-4, whoops that can't be right i'm an uneducated grunt, that can't spell.... But the last time i checked the forum rules it says nothing about education levels, or being able to spell....nor does it say we have to measure dick size in order to have an opinion or comment on a public forum....So why does your opnion count more than mine?

Actually i thought i made it very clear, that we as a nation should be conducting ourselfs within the geneva conventions, and other accords as close as we can...my personal opinon was i frankly don't care about what happens to prisoners after we hand them over... As for uneducated opinion that the recipients are scumbags....i think 2 tours in afgan qualifies me to atleast an educated comment.... but then again i missed your qualifications and what makes you a subject matter expert... Living the dream baby.....your not the "type" that can't handle those nasty words like "scumbag" are you.

"Military Type" You make it sound like that a bad thing, like something you catch in a public washroom.

It should matter, to everyone. Just because you were not asked does not mean you don't have a say, we all have the power of freedom of speach, and all that goes along with that, along with the power of the vote...don't kid yourselfs we all have a say... It is torture pure and simply again'st the genva convention, something all nations should strive to live by as closly as they should...especially the US as they are in the leadership role... My personal opinion although counts little, if the US wants to waterboard a few scumbags in thier backyard all the power to them as long as i don't have to take part i'm good with that...I've seen what the scumbags are capable of doing and waterboarding is a very minor practice. What concerns me is after doing research on this, the CIA take on this .... is the practice limited to a few top ranked POW's and requires permission from the top echeolon a lengthy process....if this was the case then they've either got a major leak of classified info in thier ranks...or it is happening more often than is reported.... and that is a problem as soon ...it will become routine, and expected....and with the US in a leadership role.... it will eventually bleed down to the other western countries as an exceptable practice.....

Sure we do, but that would depend on what portion of history you perfer. Burton is a good historian, but then again i like Granatstien, Morton, or Bercuson.

Perhaps your title should read why the US is not involved in Darfur....aside from giving us another chance to piont our fingers at the current US adminstration....but while we are at it lets ask ourselfs why we are not involved in Darfur....and is our case as strong as we think it is ?

If there was anything we could fix in todays military, it would be HOW we purchase equipment, and stream linning the process...not because it's full of red tape, slow and costly...but because it saves lives....a minor consideration i know when compared to the almight dollar, and who is going to benifit from the contracts.

Perhaps toronto was not the best example but what about Vancover. Quakes. The other thing I want to know is, why do we need help from a foreign military for domestic emergency issues? Should we not be able to take care of that stuff on our own?? And if not... why not? We have had help from the US military on just about every major domestic emergency we've had in the last 20 years. for instance during the Winnipeg floods, US naval and army helo's assisted in rescue op's, during the ICE storm US military transport aircraft assisted with moving equipment to where it was needed...the list is long... Yes we should be able to take care of that stuff on our own, however our military is the size it is because thats what the avg Canadian wants, it has nothing to do with needs at all. In which dept, or Are you saying the government could call up all able bodies to assist, and if they did what equipment would they use, what training would they have, There is money spent on civilian responders, and planners, and it does come out of the military budget, because the military is a major componet in our national preparedness plan. It has the manpower available on short notice, it has the equipment, or most of it, and it has assets spread around the country....it makes sense to use the military in this function, Why have 2 completely separate depts, would that make good fiscal sense.... Stop the panick....any foreign troop deployment would be under the national chain of command, and would be limited to certain types of operations....and unless it was a massive domestic emergance like victory island slipped out to sea, i highly dought you'd see US soldiers in a security role....much like how we were used in Katrina, very limited even restricted roles...unarmed. It's a good policy, and although we have a agreement of limited support in the past...this now makes it official.... What is shopuld do as Rue suggested was make every Canadian think about how they want our government to respond to a crises and what kind of help they are expecting.... To put this in context, the ICE storm, was a major reponse by our military, involving a vast chunk of our deployable troops....and it was not a very big emergency.... a Katrina type emergency would have quickly overwhelmed our entire force, and really brought to light all our shortfalls.

It must be nice to sit back and make final judgement on a kid who we have never met....with little to none of the info we would need to really judge him, or convict him... but that happens alot around here... In this case he's an american, and a soldier... and he fits nicely into our favorite pass time of "bashing" our niebours to the south, and the Iraq war... I don't condone his actions, they lacked judgement, and humanity, and disrespected the uniform and organization he represents and worked so hard to be apart of....but at most he is guilty of abusing an animal....Not murder or rape...but abusing an animal...and deserves to be punished if guilty, not put to death, or voted off the island, like some sugested....the system should be offering this guy the help he needs...both mentally, and physically. Our nations have long since gotten comfortable with the notion of sending it's citizens into combat. failing to relieze that it is these same soldiers are going to need care when they return, and when care is offered, it is to little to late ........Todays soldiers have volunteered, and are normal people just like everyone on this board, they come from across the country and from a broad spectrum of back grounds. there not already killers or the dreges of our nations, but normal people like you and me.......It is War or combat that changes them..And unless you've experianced combat you won't understand. it is as close to hell as you can come...and watching saving private ryan does not count.......the experiance changes them forever...We as a nation need to own that problem, and we need to do more to solve it.... I don't see this soldiers actions as a crime but more of a cry for help....one that we need to act upon before his actions have bigger consquences...

bush_cheney2004: Here is the pill that i find somewhat hard to choke down...Is some how our government has stomped it's feet putting conditions down on our continued support for this mission...which somehow takes away from everything we have down to date...it does not show leadership in my eyes , but clearly panders to the "finish the afgan mission now" piont of view....I will agree with eyeball that this extension means nothing, but a delay in the whole Afgan question... Our country has stated that it needs support in the south, it has on it's own, approached other NATO partners to get this support...and when very little was forth coming "then" it should have shown leadership, expected of a G-8 nation, a NATO allied, and offered an increased commitment. leading by example....Although an increase of 1000 troops would put additional strain on our armed forces, it would send a clear signal to other bigger G-8 nations, or newer NATO allieds...It would also re affirm our present allieds that we support them and are in this for the long haul. Topaz: I looked at your site, it is interesting, even somewhat educational...but it makes me wonder if they have the proof then why has no charges been filed or anyone asked to resigned....And yet i will not say that it does not go on...shit even here in Canada we have investagations ongoing at the ex PM level...try mentioning a government contract and watch the price inflate over night....What i do know is that Millions are being poured into afgan infra structure, i've seen these projects, gaurded this projects, engaged the bad guys at this projects....projects like repairing dam's, building new paved highways, digging irrigation ditchs, wells, it cost major money here to do anything...

By now you should already know just how the taliban treated thier own people, this is not something new, but i guess if you don't get to see the horror with your own eyes, it does not leave an impression....it does not send the same message to your brain....That is why everyone needs to be constantly reminded that these scumbags are just that Scumbags.... What are you suggesting, that our Tax dollars have been diverted into someones pocket. Do you have proof that it has not gone to the people that needed it.... I'm curious is that what you think this is all about, Canada not having the troops to deploy, or getting our NATO friends to take more of an interest in the mission? And if i was BC i would'nt let sleeping dogs lay either....Canada has made a commitment, and at first it eagerly agreed and now, it finds any excuse it can not to support the mission....Now that we are all on the same page and the mission will continue to 2011, we should concentrate on what it takes to bring more of our troops home alive and well..... but once again we as a nation will bedate the shit of the unimportant things and our soldiers will be left to fend for themselfs....

This topic seems to have split into those that seem to think "the way ahead is change, to become one new melting pot of new immigrants, to absorb these changes into a new Canada" and then there are those that fell threaten to loose what little Canadian identity we have left.... But is is so bad to have pride in the present Canada of today, or yester year....Do we need to change to forge into the future and if so where do we draw the line....when do we say ok i'm not wearing that pink robe and handing out flowers.... No one has really made a case one way or the other....

And your ready for that, many years to come....your financial support was never in doubt. As for us knowing what we are doing...i think we are in good hands, i think our record speaks for itself.... I never took you as a quiter eyeball, i guess we move on to get you to vote for the Cons....

No Canada should only be concerned that it is holding up it's end of the alliance...and when that day comes around that NATO is reconsidering it's alliance members....we might still be at the table..

Sorry blue blood my head just imploded, and that was the straw....To many people are using that as an excuse or one of many Not to support the mission.....But the european commitment or lack of is not a reason for us to drop the ball....But rather it should inspire us to press on finish the job in true Canadian form, much like we did in Vimy, or countless other battle fields thru out the world...or on our first UN peacekeeping mission. Frankly scarlet, i don't give a damn....that is the message we should be sending....

I don't think you do, This is something every soldier is strugling with. Our nation asked us to carry out it's foreign policy, which we did gladly....at the time the nation stood behind us....While doing so we poured everything we had into that mission, our sweat , blood, and tears....we have seen the Afganis people strugle in thier day to day lives, which are slowly improving....we have seen our comrads die in our arms, or pour thier precious blood over the endless Afganis dust.... we have and still are giving everything we have to make this mission suceed....even when our nation frowns at our achievements... Only to have to come home and justify why? we are so passionate about this mission. why we don't see it as an endless mission to the very people who sent us over....I'm very aware that it is our government that has the power to send us any where they want...But i'm also very aware that the people of Canada also have a voice and when, used it is heard....there are serveral recent examples of that. and still they have not one way or the other used that vioce....leaving the impression that we are alone in our quest.... But our nation is stuck in limbo, (it won't move forward in regards to the mission, and it won't withdrawal) the people do not support the mission...and without that support this mission will fail, and all our sweat, blood and tears will be for what ? And the majority of Canadians would have a valid piont if this was about oil, or Canada expanding it's empire, or some other reason...but when you boil it all down it's about our nation, blessed as it is ...stretching out it's hand to help...yes the Afganis have alot of bagage but when did we every let that stop us as a nation from atleast trying.... It is effecting our moral, it is effecting the military as a whole...And if it is us who is paying the price that this mission demands, then let us have a say when we have to pull out....as it will be us that will have to explain to the Afganis, to our allieds, to our comrads sorry we have to go home now....

Is it fluff, i think it a legimate question, one that the majority of Canadians need to ask themselfs. Unlike yourself the majority of Canadians don't believe in the "star trek philosphy of net nature take it's course...most believe that our military forces should be used in peacekeeping and peace making roles... Hence why the majority of Canadians were willing to help the Afganis people in thier hour of need. And if this is true, and we as a nation decide we have had enough, what implications does this have on future missions, and our reputation as a ligimate military force, that has the fortitude to see the mission thru....not to mention what it damage it does to our NATO standing or other alliances we have such as with the US....

Sorry jerry not sure whom you are addressing , not sure which post your refering to.

Thats the best we can do " tell the europeans" that simple sentence gives us an excuse to pull out of our NATO commitment, to throw our G-8 nation status and responsabilities out the window...To stomp our feet and yell and scream....if i don't get my way i'm going home....we need to grow up...we as canadians need to come to the conclusion that there is more to life than our pogey checks and hockey games..that we can not afford to take those responsabilities that those before us worked so hard to achieve "lightly"....to use them when we are in the mood.... How soon we forget that we have military forces in Afgan today facing live and death each minute of the day....How soon we forget we where the ones that sent them over there to uphold what most Canadians thought was near and dear to them....we where the ones that extended our hand in friendship and to assist a nation down on it's luck....and like a bunch of spoiled rich kids we have grown bored of the Afganis people and thier problems and now want to leave, for something else, something different ...we are not sure of what but we will find something.