Army Guy

I guess that would go for gold, silver, shit lets not forget those pretty artic diamonds all ours.....

Give us all a break....Correct me if i'm wrong but did'nt the NDP and green party want combat troops in Darfur...but i guess it's OK to continue the cycle of violence if we are feeding the masses, So what does the left call it when a government uses military force to over throw a foreign government in order to feed it's people...and to stop the violence....or do we reserve the words imperialistic militarism, corporate profits for the right..... Problem with the left is in most cases they don't know what they want, and everything on the right is bad until they want a piece of the pie.....

I'd like to ask this question, How is it that Canada's military, main focus has been on combat related tasks and missions for the last 40 years ? it has employed a bulk of it's members on these tasks, and UN and peace keeping and peaceful assistance have had the back seat, and if this is the case how did we ever come to the conclusion that "our traditional role or postion has been peace keeping"... It would be like telling everyone that our police forces are nothing more than armed tax collectors whose prime mission and role is to collect taxes thru tickets issued, and law enforcement is just a side show.... Most missions that our country takes on involves one or all of your above "things that make me uneasy" that includes our UN peacekeeping missions ....The most common misbelief that MOST Canadians have about peacekeeping is that we hand out teddy bears and candies and everything is good.....and that no use of force is used, If that was the case why would we need Armoured personal carriers, why would every soldier be issued a wpn,Frag jacket, and live ammo....have Rules of engagement....and spend 6 months training of ehich most of it concentrates on combat...i'm just guessing but teddy bears and candies do not need such training or protection.... Discuss what exactly, is there something that has not been discussed, do you have something new....We are already on the battlefield, and bullets are being traded as we speak, Canada has already decided to stay until 2011, Canadians need to swallow that fact, it is unchangable, (look at the problem we had raising 1000 extra troops to support us) can you imagine trying to find a country that would cough up 2500 to replace us....not going to happen....And the longer that Canada dithers away valuable time and wasted effort on trying to stop the mission the more our soldiers have to suffer and do with out.... And while we have established the fact that it is not changeable, then we need to focus all our efforts on our troops....ensuring they have the right equipment to make their jobs a safe as possiable....we need to get behind the mission , more funding for both our military and the Afgan government, so that this mission can get completed.....and we can go home with our new found knowledge " next time our government is thinking of commiting our troops we need to do the following" ....before the step onto the battle field..... But that is not the NDP's platform at all, they still are pushing the DARFUR involvement, and that mission is little different than Afgan....you can't have it both ways....you can not sit here and preach peace and peacekeeping and then yell we want to go to darfur....which is a combat mission....so really they are no better than the liberals or cons, they to want thier own mission, to have thier chance at playing with the military in thier own sand box.....

I grew up in that area, every year the people's homes along the St John river are flooded, every year homes are damaged, basements flooded, property lost....and every year insurance companys pay out large for those damages...this year they are seeing record flood waters, and your right the federal government has done nothing, but then again niether has the provincial government or the home owners themselfs....and these floods happen every year....i mean a flood is a flood be it 1 ft of water in your basement or 6 ft the damage is pretty much the same.... Residents refuse to move because 10 months of the year they enjoy a beautiful view of the river....and it is true nice view, beautiful area....but i've often asks you pays for these claims in the long run, we do....perhaps it's not just the Cons fault but everyone that is involved.....many there say if i knew that my home flooded every year i'd build some sort of dike around it....build up the land around it....but everyone is quit content with making thier claims every year....

Damn right it's worth it, It's your right, to make your vioce heard by anyone that will listen....Will it accomplish anything, ask Mr Martin luther king, if he accomplished anything....the list is endless....doing something is better than not doing anything then complaining about it....After all it is one of those freedoms our nations holds near and dear...use it. There is already millions of laws that govern how countries should act and what is illigal, and what is not....But let me ask you this, how will you enforce that new law ? give out tickets, perhaps sanctions, but what do you do with countries that don't respond at all, those that tear your tickets up, laugh at your fines, and disregard your sanctions....what do we do with those countries....and how do we make them accountable.... Hey you find a cure that will end all wars, i'm in...it would be nice to find a new vocation in life, but i've seen man at his and her worse, and i don't see war ending any time soon...

I agree with you, i know it's shocking...But considering the shape and size the forces was in at the time, and pretty much nothing has changed today, getting involved in a combat mission of this duration was a mistake...there was a lot of talk about DND trying to convince the powers to be that we could not sustain a mission of that length...not to mention the state of our equipment or lack of it... We both understand that we are there now, with no withdrawal date in the near future...However with the majority of Canadians "not" supporting the mission, the present government is reluctant to spend our tax dollars be it on new and improved and much needed equipment, or increase funding for reconstruction efforts.... Supporting this mission, would only benifit our soldiers, not only in moral, crictical when in combat.... but increased safety measures....the difference of resuppling byair rather than road alone could decrease our causualities by 50 %....Armed helicopters would mean having fire support right there when you need it, instead of having to wait 10 or 15 mins...more heavy armoured vehs such as the bufflo, and Nayla...all could save lives... And while the taliban do respond well to our changing tactics, we need to keep changing ours that includes updating and purchasing new equipment.... We've always had a seat at the table, and your right, it was paid for, by the most part by our soldiers blood....and i don't think that will change in the near future....since Korea we've not been living up to our table responsibilities, and although i don't think Cretien had that in mind when he made the decision to commit us to Afgan....The seat does have a price, and it needs to be paid.... Where would we be without the seat...

I've heard alot about it, been trying to get a hard copy....no luck ,can't seem to find it on thier online version.

This is what i don't get, you have made up your mind, and you truely believe your right, you've spent countless posts saying so....but that is all your willing to give to your beliefs, that and you'll vote NDP or green party.....not much for something you believe so strongly for....what about writing your MP, organizing a rally, attending a rally, start a petion,....but your response does make my piont that canadians like to bitch and moan, about things that they dislike, but for most that is where it ends.....

Great, so we all agree then, that "not" supporting the mission is really a waste of time, and will amount to nothing but more band width, and time on our hands....Maybe we could use that time to lobby our government for the equipment we need to save lives.....

like i said before, the both are linked and fused as one, military force needs to be there if assistance is to be delivered.... You mention save our lives, who are you refering to.... Every conflict that Canada has been involved with exception to 1812, has been someone else's war or conflict...So what scares you about this mission ? As for telling them what type of government to support thats plain bull poop....that is your opinion, not fact.... The mission has changed ? what does the Average Canadian know about this mission ?....they take thier info from the media, that rarely gets out of the camp, what info they do get is from DND, with all journalist present for daily briefs and yet read the papers the next day and not one paper gets in right.... Then there is our government that has screwed the whole keep canadians informed thing from the start.... The mission has not changed, it has always been the same...from the start to today.... Name just one aspect of the mission has changed.... There is none, just something that canadians made up to cover thier asses for abandoning us on the battle field.... so they can feel good about themselfs, while they watch another casket making it way down the highway of hero's ....while pretending to sob into napkins, So while the majority of Canadians don't support the mission, what have they done to remove our soldiers from the battle fields....NOTHING, so stop sobbing, stop whinning , stop beating your chests while shouting i don't support this mission....your paying the whole topic lip service, while lying to yourself, and our soldiers.....your actually doing more harm than good....

myata, believe what you want, regardless of what the numbers or math tell you, every time we go outside the wire it takes me about 15 mins to get geared up, and why do we get geared up, because we know it is not a matter of if we are going to see combat....but when in that trip...now it may turn out to be just a speeding car, or a few rounds from a machine gun....it still combat....i've been on to many convoys that have ended up with blood being shed on both sides.... So when you read about another one of our soldiers being brought home in a metal coffin, ask your self this....DOes NATO have to many troops in AFgan....would more troops on the ground save that kids life.....damn straight it would.....so is it all WMD, alien invasions....maybe to you, and some others....but not to those that live that 24 hours a day for 6, 7, 8 months at a time....no to us we have a job to do, one that was given to us by our government....and we will be doing it well after 2011 , how do we know that, because the Canadian people can not make up thier damn minds on what they want, and if they finally decide they can't be bothered to do anything about it.....

.Then sir you don't understand how many troops it takes to effectivly secure a country the size of Afganistan from terrorist....protecting your country from regular invading armies is a totally different concept....when dealing with terrorist you have to be at every street corner, every market, every road junction, est thousands of road blocks for searching cars, trucks , people and you need to do that around the clock....365 days a year....you need to double or triple those numbers because soldiers need to eat , sleep...etc....so they will need replacements....then you need armed forces patroling and activily looking for the bad guys....once again they can't do this 24 hours a day so double those numbers....i think you'll find that soon those numbers add up....and quickly.... Nato's commitment is not just combat, but reconstruction as well hundred of projects are ongoing across the country every day....so those 40,000 nato soldiers got whidled down by a third, subtract another 1/3 or more for support troops....and you have what combat troops NATO has on the ground....does that concern you....it scares the shit out of me.... That would depend on how many NATO troops where available to hunt these scumbags down...while not forgetting holding the ground we have already firmly in our control.... We used to measure taliban strentgh by the amount of operations they carried out....lots of talk about spring offensives....well spring is sprung over there....and much to everyones surprise it's another bust year...much like last year....sure bombing is up, by i think 30 to 40 % over last year...but it only takes a few men to carry out a bombing....long gone are the days like operation mudusa, where they took us on one on one....out in the open .... still wait and see in the hemland district...where the brits are. every day they get weaker and we get stronger.....this year another 3500 marines, more french troops ...they can't compete against those odds....they have a hard time recruiting combat loses, let alone increases in NATO strentgh when i say we i mean the Afgan government ...there is talk that the Afganis military will in the near future take over the capitol region....replacing NATO troops....this is a major step for them...alot of NATO countries are starting to panick, as they try and find room up north for thier troops, don't want thier boys in combat...did i say that out loud...anyways there is progress.

Yes they did offer to to extradite him, and as soon as that offer was being explored, Bin Ladin was no where to be found, he had gone missing....gone missing in a country that had a complete lock down on it's citizens, let alone a well known person like bin ladin....See link below.... taliban Your a smart person, would you allow Al Qaeda to set up and operate a terrorist training camp in your country, your backyard....Why not ? because they would be training terrorists right, ? and any one knows that terrorist activities are illigal, right....So you know that just allowing them into operate out of your country is bad....but Al Qeada was part of many taliban depts, info flowed both ways, ....shit the Taliban even instructed them to take out the Northern alliance leader, which they did....how could they not know they carried out terrorist activities when they were instructing them to do it .... Secondly Al qaeda has a separate but large group of it's own men inbeded in the Taliban military forces, which makes them acountable to the Taliban government....it makes thier actions , actions of the taliban government.... actions of those inbedded in the taliban military anyways... What are you saying, because i'm lost, if your objective was to get me chasing around in circles "you won"..... Because that is exactly what your impling.....if the taliban were involved in Al qaeda terrorist activies and you know that then why are we posting....thats all the proof you need.... Do you think that all the government that were involved in taking down the taliban did not see the evidance, wiegh it with there decisions, was it lawful, the UN thought so........or do you think they all got a phone call pressed the red button and military forces started to relocate the taliban to a better place.... And now your confused and refused to believe that because you have not seen all that edvidance it is impossiable, that those poor taliban folk are to blame for the crimes they have been accused of.... Your right i concede , i've explained it a dozen times you refuse to look at the facts and refuse to change your opinion....which is your right....you keep your opinion and i will keep mine.... this next Roto will be my third in Afgan, i've volunteered not because i will be away from my family, not because i love to be in a war zone, Not for my country, which does not support the very mission they sent us on, ..but because i believe in what we are doing over there, i've seen the improvements, and although they are painfully slow they are there....I''ve seen what these Taliban scumbags are capable of doing to thier own people , i've seen thier pain, thier joy, thier tears thier laughter....it's amazing what an open hand can do, and the phrase, i'm here to help what do you need.....And if all of that is bad, then i guess that will be between me and my maker....until then i will have to live with every decision i make over there, it is i who will have to live with the ghosts...me and thousands of Canadians like me....

Your not comprending the power of fear, and what it does to the average citizen...Did every allied citizen mobilize to defeat the NAZI's, NO and yet there was a real threat, atleast to the British... did every german mobilize to push back ALLIED's advances NO, and defeat was almost certain in that case.......why is that ? Fear of dying on the battle field out wieghs the fear of what the Nazi's would or could do if they did not fight, perhaps the same could be said with regular Afganis citizens....Not everyone believes in a cause, enough to die for it anyway... ones beliefs are faded even more when your only concern is your families safety, and feeding them a major challange in Afgan.. Your right they are not actions of people who lived in fear under life in a brutal regime...But the northern alliance and the people under thier banner did not, nor had never lived under the Taliban regime.... ...but there is 26 million people in Afgan and those doing the fighting on both sides , whose numbers are small in comparison, that fact in it self does nothing to support your above argument... Even the Taliban army which had most of the Afganis population, it's numbers on the battle field did not reflect your piont...had everyone been mobilized to fight for thier taliban beliefs then they could have easily over whelmed the northern alliance....which proves that the majority of Afganis did not fight for either side... But after 30 years of war, under brutal governments and leaderships....kind of does that to a people... The Afganis army is "not' re equiped with AFV's Artillery, and supporting arms...they have recieved a few gunships from ex warsaw pact countries and few helos, but most of thier AFV's are "toyota pick-up trucks'...yes the us is about to give them some humvees, and few trucks but nothing compared to western unit Standards .... Most if not all of the ex taliban ( left behind by russian forces) armoured equipment sits in the desert rotting or destroyed by coalition airstrikes parked in massive fields rusting very few are operational and in use.......like i said before there 60,000 man military is mostly on foot, armed with 30 year old rifles...few exceptions some units have been equiped with the US m-16 by US forces and some C-7 rifles by Canadian troops... but that does not make an army... It's not that they are incapable of taking the taliban on, in fact they do so every day...what they lack is the numbers to properly secure the entire nation...your also not comprehending the effectivness of terrorist attacks... take a look at Israel and thier size of thier armed forces/ police depts and yet terrorist still mange to hit targets well inside israel....how is that when israel is smaller in size and has a much larger resources to deal with the threat ? ..

How can you set up and operate terrorist training camps and "NOT" know full well on what Al Qaeda intentions where.... Your killing me here , did you read the quote, Bin Laden was able to forge an alliance between the Taliban and his Al-Qaeda organization. It is understood that al-Qaeda-trained fighters known as the 055 Brigade were integrated with the Taliban army between 1997 and 2001. (Quote from Wikipedia below ) plus from the quote from above,.... Al-Qaeda enjoyed the Taliban's protection and a measure of legitimacy as part of their Ministry of Defense,[/u] How can you train terrorist, for the purpose of riegning terror down on some other nation, or group, and not consciously be a partner in that....How can you incorparte them in thier defense department and not have ties to the Afgan government, be kind of like JTF taking on military jobs on the side.....and when they are caught say to the world they don't belong to us....give me a break.... I'm not saying that the taliban can or will return to power, they do however have the ability to drastically change the polictics of the country, to the piont where they may gain control over some seats within the country....they also have the ability to slow down progress , to destroy projects and keep the nation in turmoil....

Lets review the facts shall we. 1) The taliban offered refuge and protection to the group known as Al qaeda, knowing full well what the AlQaeda agenda was. alquada 2) The Taliban actually incorporated Al Qaeda members into it's own military forces... plus Several hundred Arab Afghan fighters sent by bin Laden assisted the Taliban in the slaughter at Mazar-e-Sharif Perhaps the biggest favor al-Qaeda did for the Taliban was the assassination by suicide bombing[51] of the Taliban's most effective military opponent mujahideen commander and Northern Alliance leader Ahmad Shah Massoud shortly before September 9, 2001. 3) The Taliban actually trained members of Al Qaeda. Visit My Website 4) The Taliban was being somewhat funded by Al Qaeda and Bin Ladin. 5) Bin Ladin son marries into the taliban. Taliban-al-Qaeda connections, were also strengthened by the reported marriage of one of bin Laden's sons to Omar's daughter. During Osama bin Laden's stay in Afghanistan, he may have helped finance the Taliban (Quote from wikipedia) taliban How many links do you need to link the both together....

Are you sure your researched this topic, Under the Taliban regime they set up many training camps, for many different terrorist groups, one of the major terrorist groups to use these camps was Al Quaeda which is operating around the world as we speak...If you don't like the links i provided there is hundrds more... taliban training camps terror training camps. Sure your not, ...Taliban took control of most of Afgan by force of arms, there was no elections no nothing, they took what they wanted established a brutal dictatorship....They did'nt have time to invade anyone they were to busy slaughtering thier own....including diplomatic staff from Iran .....take some of your time and read about these people your so fond of, and what they are capable of....Legitimate government of afganistan....why is it your ready to believe that these scumbags formed the legitimate government thru force of arms, but can not for the life of you give the current government which the Afganis people voted for and elected.... taliban Take your blinders off just for a minute, on one hand you legimize the taliban regime and your ok with that....but you refuse to believe that an election one as we know it took place in Afgan....one without major interference from NATO, or what ever ghost you can think off....Impossiable....NATO did not back a canidate, it did not even assist with counting votes....all NATO did was provide security, other agencies including elections Canada ran the polling stations, counted the votes, etc....are you now suggesting one big conspiracy involving NATO, and elections canada and the hundrds of other depts that assisted in the election.... elections

I disagree , you can not judge an entire army by a few actions of some of it's men....I've faught along side of some very competant Afganis soldiers, and will do so again.

There is no way the taliban could fit into that description, regional conquests you mean like training terrorists for outside use .....not much call for terrorists in your own country is there....hvy losses of life,( war in the north,) execution of it's own citizens for things like flying a kite , listening to music,going to the store without a male nope does'nt sound like irreversible bankrupcy of idealogy....certainly not a society dictated to, how to live, what to wear, different rights for sexes, are you sure the taliban don't fit into those discriptions you wrote.... are you saying that they were not strong when the allieds finally entered Germany, or closing on the Japanese islands,....All of them were strong, and focused....it was after defeat that the people finally opened thier minds and hearts to occupation thru hard work and trillions of dollars.....because the oppresive governments were removed and were not a threat of coming back.... i suppose that a few thousand taliban terrorists left over would not count as a significant reisidual threat.... You seem to have this thing with facts....We have already established the fact that the Afganis people elected the canidate of thier chioce.... i can provide any of a number of links if you like) if you got proof to support other wise , please provide it....if not then your comments about a government installed by a foreign power is false..... As for keeping law an order , i've already explained to you that even a few terroist can shut down a nation....a couple of thousand could cripple a nation.... as for simply keeping law and order, how is our war on drugs going, what about gang violence , murders etc....how is it that our nations 65,000 cops can not eradicate those problems.....perhaps there is more to it than just numbers....maybe the problem is larger than we thought....but for you it's because the numbers don't add up, that the entire road to victory has not been mapped out....i would have thought you come to the conclusion that there is no map, and we are winging it.... What are you suggesting here that they can't have one because they have not done thier time, or are not ready for one....who decided you, on what creditials.... OK i get it you refused to take in the fact that this is what the afganis people wanted, that it was recieved with open arms by them....it was them that chose thier current leader, and it's government....The majority of afganis do support the current government , they may not agree with all of thier policies, but it is thiers.... but you have not provided any proof other wise other than it is your opinion, it is not me that "if you decided to believe otherwise, and it'll have to be that pure irrational belief a la "it's for your own good", because it has no ground in the fact; it's your choice, and there's little I can do to pursuade you otherwise".....your entire augument is based on opinon.... 2 thousand odd people do not make a civil war, Wrong action, by whoms terms , who's credials , what proof do you have that it will not suceed....once again it's all opinion....what i do know is it is bettered to have tried and failed than not tried at all....All the average Canadian is asked for is some coin,,, nothing else ....the heavy lifting is being done gladly by our Armed forces.... And for some reason they are the only ones still commited....imagine that....The results are there you just have to look....progress is being made.... So when you ask can we allow you to be concerned , the answer is NO, concern and debate was to have happened before we hit the battle field, you owe our military atleast that much....changing your minds half way thru a mission, proves without a shadow of doubt canadians failed to do that....that our blood was spilled becaused we the people did not do our homework, that we were blind sided with an iraq or afgan choice...and took the lesser, only to find out according to you was a mistake as well... That is what your bringing to the table....it was a mistake, one that has to be debated once again, one that will take years to reverse because the Canadian people "you know the ones that sent us " will not get up off thier asses and change it, this mistake you claim we have made....and in the mean time it is us the soldiers that will continued to fight and die, for a cause that the majority of canadians don't believe in....That is what i call supporting the troops....can you see why we are frustrated.... And the solution is right thier in front of your face, either do something dramatic like mass peace rallies, demonstrations, writing members of parl.......to bring us home now, or you can support the mission, allowing us to get the funding and equipment we need to perform the mission...you don't have to like it just do something....anything....either way atleast it will look like your supporting us, and not paying us lip service, like what is being done today.... if you chose to do nither then stop whinning and complaining...

No one is arguing that piont, however Canada does have her own agenda, her own interests to be in Afganistan.... Iraq was a US lead attack as well, and yet for our own reason decided to abstain... You can call it what ever you want, But when my nation gives it's soldiers the ability and means to wipe out entire cities, then i call that war... Actually Amphibous warfare has changed little since those primitive days, the equipment is newer, but storming the beaches still happens...modern warfare has changed the battle field little except now we can fly a missle up someones ass....and our bombs are bigger, soldiers still fight house to house.... infanteers still close with and destroy the enemy... Op mudusa seen us in the very same conditions as those that faught in WWII . fighting house to house, fighting hand to hand , etc.etc.. No slaughter is lossing over almost a 1000 casualties in the first day, june 6 th 1944 ....our losses todate have been tough to cope with but very light... You forget armies have been using mines in warfare since the invention of gun powder, we dislike them because that is our enemies wpn of choice....but they are still a wpn, and all is fair in war... We can can't get Canadians to agree on this mission, who can we talk them into opening the conflict that would engulf most of the gulf region in flames....... Hope it's a small clean-up NATO is struggling to get over 40,000 to Afgan....But i do agree with you...

The above wea your orginal quote, to which i responded below What about germany, or japan, not to mention korea, there is more if you like. So how does germany , japan, Korea not qualify as being under foreign control to establish a simple working government , after years of war....All had thier government replaced, infra structure destroyed after years of combat, then put back on track after years of assistance by foreign troops and polictical members. And in these cases it has taken decades of help, so why is afgan any different... So Britain was not a functioning government during WWII when it called for british colonal countries for thier assistance fighting the nazi's....just because you can not defend a nation does not mean you do not have a fully functioning government...look at our country could'nt defend our great nation, from a determined attack...and yet we seem to have a working government.... if you could prove that you would have a story....but this government was elected by the Afganis people, voting at ballot stations, those votes were counted by outside agencies such as UN and elections Canada officals plus many more...that would be some story if you could prove it.... You truely don't understand about this terrorist network and how they operate....Lets just est a few facts, there is currently 60,000 in the Afganis army close to 70,000 police officers, plus close to 50,000 Nato soldiers ...NATO has been trying to recruit more NATO members because they is still a shortage of more than 10,000 troops required to secure the nation....that would tell me, that the answer to your question is no 60,000 Afganis army members would not be enough to protect the nation alone....regardless of the ratio.... Lets talk about the ratio for a minute...there is close to 65,000 police officers in Canada and yet there is still crime...how could that be they clearly outnumber the crimnals so how can we have crime.... Your ratio's would work if the Taliban wore uniforms clearly marking them as the bad guys, they attacked only military targets, or they did'nt use another country to hide in free from NATO attacks and airstrikes, for the most part any ways....Now start scatter them around 20 here 20 there ....more than enough to terrorize towns and villages, word spreads fast , and when you have a terrorized population it very difficult to find and destroy the bad guys....That is why they have been so effective....and why it takes so many soldiers to secure the country.... I have not said that , however ....It is possiable, history has shown serveral examples of that...if 180,000 security forces can not fully secure the entire country side 24 hours a day, im sure that by pulling out NATO"S force will only hurt everything thats been todate...when you understand just how effective terrorizm is then it will dawn on you just how serious the problem is if we cut and run....a small group named the FLQ used terror as thier wpn , How many troops did Canada deploy to combat those few.... So ask your self what are "you" going to gain by having our troops withdrawn, some tax dollars ....what else.... Canadian soldiers are paying more for this mission than any Canadian, and yet they are commited....and remain commited...even when they know back in Canada people sit in thier chairs and cast doubt on the mission...play down everything that has been done...everything that has been accomplished....they grow tired of the mission, thier patients have run out....they want something new.....because that is who we are as a people a fat food nation, if we can't have it in 5 mins it's not worth doing......And once again the ones holding the bag is the soldiers because the very people they serve won't listen to them....because we are the ones that are going to have look at the Afganis people and soldiers in the eyes and try to explain to them , our people back home have lost taste for this mission, because it cost to much...they will also have to explain to the other NATO nations, we were are going home, because our people lack the will or vision to see this mission thru.... I don't think your blaming the soldiers, but remember your talking to a guy that has alot invested into Afgan, 12 months of blood, sweat and tears, but also 12 months away from my family ,i'll never get back,...and to many comrads who's sprite will forever be in the hills of Afganistan....And to forget all that because of a little money, or patients have run out....to me is an insult to those that have served.... Would that be enough, remember this mission started with the majority in favour....and now it's hard to find someone that is in support....soldiers feel abandoned, and ironically the only ones standing behind them is a government, and those few in the minority... Soldiers feel strongly about this mission, they made it thier own , do the lack of support the recieve back home...it's this lack of support that actually makes our jobs that much harder...which pisses off soldiers to no end...

Peijay: I too am an RCR, Release rates have always been high for combat arms trades, for many reasons....most of them have nothing to do with Afgan...The government and DND are working hard at fixing the problem but our main focus is the Afgan mission.... It's not that the government or the troops are keeping some thing from you, it's that most refuse to believe that in bad things can happen in war....Most of these young kids are full of piss and vingar, thinking war is going to be cool , one big vidio game...training for Afgan puts everything into prospective, it's when you step on to the herc for the final leg into afgan reality hits home hard, you adrinal starts pumping ....you know it's real when you don all your gear and they hand you a combat load of live ammo as you board the aircraft, no customs check or x ray machine here....then 3 days later your outside the wire where anything can happen at any time....And after 6 months these same kids decide they have had enough....and go on to try something else in thier lifes....they are not hero's just kids serving thier country, military life is not for everyone, but i do respect them for trying. This next Roto will have mean that every member in the RCR will have served in Afgan, thats 3 BNs worth of men and women have seved atleast once, the avg for the entire regt is 2 to 3 tours already served, with alot on thier 4 or 5 tours.... Thank you for your concern.

Leafless: Don't let anyone fool you leafless, war is war, this one is no different than any others...Canada does have her own agenda, her own interests in being involved in Afganistan. It's funney i never thought you were a "this is a US war and US problem" type of guy... Depending on your trade, i would agree with your statement, DND gives you ample reasons to opt out of fighting, and if your problem is serious enough then you'll stay home...But an infanteer that refuses to fight is like and plumber that refues to do plumbing, kind of useless don't you think....so yes your carear would be over...if your a long serving member they will find you some quite office job some where, so you can serve out the rest of your time .... if your a short timer then yes they will ask you to find another carear choice.... Slaughter like sheep, abnormal tactics including suicide bomber...something like wading ashore during dieppe , or normandy....that kind of slaugter, when the first wave suffered 75% cas....or do you mean it's slaughter because you don't know when your going to get blown up.... Every Canadian soldier that has died is a loss that effects us all, but it is in no means a slaughter.... So you disagree with the Afgan war, but agree with widening it's scope...i'm confused...

Topaz: Suicide is a problem not just in the military but across the country. But i have to question your motives in posting this. Have you checked what the suicide rates are for firemen, police, EMS techs, dentists, laywers, stock brokers, homeless people, and compared them...Every profession has suicide rates ..So why this post... A person that is afraid of dieing is less likely to take thier own life. And although i'm sure the the war does contain alot of factors that can push an individual over the edge, it is not the sole cause....in most cases...it's a series of problems that when balled up , an individual thinks the only way out is thru death.... Jazzer: Topaz, the right is only going to trot out the old chestnut about other professions and their suicide rates. They simply don't care about the soldiers mental heath. Don't think you can chink that armor. DND as got more mental health projects and checks and balances than any other dept or profession, and yet "IF" we were to compare professions we would find that DND is not at the top or for that matter in the middle, so although all suicides are tragic , i've got to ask what is the piont, of this post other than to spill some bad light on DND....

What about germany, or japan, not to mention korea, there is more if you like. I have answered it, you just to refuse to believe in my answer....The Afganis government is functioning on it's own( please provide a quote or site that proves other wise) > the taliban did not have full control over the entire country, the entire north was in disbute thru out thier entire reign. (but you have stated that the taliban ruled "unquestionable" please provide a quote) you are mixing up fiction with fact. Stay with me, because this government has been elected by the people of afganistan, and it has asked for NATO's assistance.... funding poppies You seem to think that the Taliban are mostly ethic Afganis, and while they do make up a good portion of thier numbers not all are Afganis....your also assuming that all the taliban afganis live inside Afganistan, they don't they have a refuge in Pakistan. where large numbers of Afganis are still in refuge... Your also looking at this problem with rose colored glasses, recruiting afganis style does not mean 2 guys dressed in siuts and ties knock on the door and discuss "what it will take to recruit your son....no it's done in the middle of the night 5 or 6 armed men bust into a house take what they want and leave....if the men or boys refuse to fight the family is wipe out.... lets take a look at numbers total afgan population is est at 26 mil....Taliban numbers est at a couple thousand.... No i was resonding to your quote below. in which i responded ("History has proven over and over again that the superior force is not always the key to victory...North vietnam proved that already, and so did the afgan freedom fighter...") Which i'll reword for you once again, overwhelming superior force does not translate into a victory....Just because the Taliban numbers are small does not mean a NATO victory... Your convinced that we are shoving something down thier throats, and we are not, i've asked you for a quote or facts but you have none. so i'm taking it as your opinion....our Government and NATO has been asked to assist the Afganis government with a terrorist problem, and to assist them in rebuilding thier nation.... you can read anything into that you want, but at the end of the day if you can prove to me any different then i'm all ears.... However me as a canadian soldier am not there to convince them of anything, not the people of Afgan nor the Taliban....my job as a Canadian infanteer is to provide sercurity, by hunting those taliban scumbags down and relocate them to another plain of existance. Allowing others to perform our second mandate reconstruction.......in doing this job we are governed by the rules of warfare and those set out by our government and the Afganis government nothing more...but then again if your going to judge me or my actions then we must judge you and your actions... What in good god did you think we were going to do when we hit the ground in Afgan, with automactic wpns, tanks , jets , and helicopters...it does not take a rocket scienctist to figure out that Canadian soldiers where going to war that we were going to close with and destroy our nations enemies...you don't need all that equipment to hand out teddy bears or serve pancakes with maple syrup....So we are all guilty of knowing before hand what our troops were about to do....and what thier goals where...right from the second the first canadian soldier got off the plane in afgan....So yes I'm 100 % convinced that i'm on the good side, and i'm convinced that we are doing good, that i have done good, not only for Canada but for the Afganis people, atleast according to them the Afganis people.. I'll ask this question once more, when Canadians turned there TV on a night and they see all those wpns, tanks , planes , etc....whose sole purpose is not peace and love, but violence, death, and war....Did you not think then perhaps this is not for you or Canada.... My interpretation of 100 % solid and undefeatable is quit different than yours, i see a future for Afganis, one of peace, one with some hope of feeding thier families....i see a future without the Taliban, a force made up of a couple of thousand forcing there ways and will on a much larger population of over 26 mil....something you have failed to see, or fathomed possiable.... But even in this country such acts are very possiable, one man could walk into a crowded mall armed with a handgun , and force his will upon everyone there, and yet you would be screaming how is that possiable, how could one man effect hundrds of people ...thru the threat of violence, and the will to carry it out thats how......How could this be possiable if we all believe in law and order, how could this be possiable if we out number this one man.... How do we correct the night mare situation, by appling an equal amount of force and the will to carry it out. Our ways you mean the ability to work, feed thier families, peace, have basic human rights, that sort of thing....