Army Guy

Something for the NAY sayers to read... comment,

I would'nt cut and run just yet. liberals.

I do hope that a compromise does not drastically change the mission. liberals Here is the take from Retired general Mackenize liberals

Is it misdirected ? was it not the majority of Canadian citizens that aplauded the mission on day one...in fact a poll i recently read it was one of Canada's best foreign affairs decisions to send our troops to afgan vice Iraq....The majority of Canadian citizens were standing behind us, and we knew that this was a mission that matter to Canadians.. it was a noble mission, had nothing to do with oil, quest for power, or setting up another province.... So the voice of Canadians did not go unheard ....and our nations military went into combat.... But somewhere at some time, we looked back and most of our support was gone...hence the question WTF....while we are away in Afgan and 6 months of combat in Afgan..Support for the mission waned over night....Most Canadians today do not care about the mission, most think it is unwinnable, screaming for another debate, or pissed off because some decal says support the troops but they really think it means support the mission....and then wonder why in the same breath they can't support the troops but show no support for the mission.... And for those soldiers getting of the planes reintragrating back into Canada's jet stream of life.....get thrown right in the middle of all this....by the same people whom just a short while ago where all for the mission , sending our troops to kick some ass....well we kept our end of the bargin, we did kick ass, and we are still doing it today....Why because that is what you asked us to do....We feel abandoned because we where, we feel used because we where, Shit....some univirsty professor can ring up an entire controversy over prisoners abuse by our soldiers.....and Canada comes to a scretching halt...."them bastards" how dare our troops do that......very few actually stood up and said there must be some mistake these are our troops and they don't do that....driving the piont home....it's funney to actually see from afar what canadians truely believe in or talk about....i'll use the univirsty professor once again, he manged to whip our nation into a feeding frenzy over some aligation of prisoner abuse...not of Canadian POW's, but our enemies.... And yet we the soldiers have been dying here because we don't have all the equipment we require and is the country in an uproar....nope, are they demanding our government get those big honkin helo's to save lives...nope....Yes they are talking about purchsing some used ones , but only after it was made a condition of our withdrawal....nice to be wanted, nice to be supported.... Here's the sad part, today you could ask the Canadian soldier " do you think this mission is a waste of time ,money and lives....you'll get a resounding NO....do you think we can win this war....YES....can you do it without the support of the Canadian people , YES, "but" it would be over in a much shorter period of time if we had thier support.... Most Canadian soldiers don't see this as a Canadian mission but rather a Canadian military mission as we are doing all the work and all the lifting, and sacraficing everything to get the job down....even when our own people are dragging thier feet, making things so much harder....we continue. Pretty sad when you have to use a war as an excuse to get the equipment that we should have to defend our country....Instead of our people demanding right from the start " hey lets make sure our boys and girls atleast have the equipment to do thier jobs"....instead all that was heard was crickets...for some 20 years....

Sorry not familar with the term PNAC.

I disagree, when your totally submerged in the situation, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, you have plenty of time to put it into context, or look at the bigger picture. we eat ,sleep, Afgan, we see our governments big picture everyday as we are the instruments that impliment that policy...we see what is working what is not, we have come to learn what will work and what does not...and not just from our governments side of the problem..but also from the tribal and clans piont of view, with our daily interaction with them...but also thru the Afgan governments piont of veiw as they are the major force and voice that drives our efforts... Without putting it into a larger context it is hard to motivate anyone into doing the things we do everyday...So i would say Yes every soldier has a clear understanding of the big picture, hence why we can do the things we do, and hence why we are still so motivated to accomplish the task , while knowing the full consquences of do that.. As for the soldiers that say anything about the war on terror, while we don't always agree on the governments direction, i would say most if not all understand the reasons why it's needed ?, just not the how it is being done... That being said you would be hard pressed to find a Canadian soldier that has served in Afgan have a negative remark about the mission.... And in all the missions we have done, it is a rare thing indeed to have this amount of support from the troops...That fact is the another one that has gone unnoticed by the Canadian public... No what we have here is a clear line in the sand....the majority of Canadians on one side, and our soldiers on the other...The soldiers minds are not clouded by our media nor our governments inactions to soundly inform the public....we get the kodiak version every day in real life, real time....thats why we push for this war....As for the politicians , all of the parties have had thier share in the photo -ops.... No it's not Bullshit, if soldiers did not trust the Canadian people with thier lives, safety, very existance there would be no military....who would serve if they could not trust the public? so it's not an opition but a fact of service life... Lets not kid ourselfs here, typical Canadian civilians really don't take this self appionted duty all that serious do they....when was the last time that a majority of canadians stood up with one voice and demanded our government take action, or change current policy... for example you have a majority of Canadians that want out of Afgan...have they used this voice to demand we withdrawal...No...will they use it election day, perhaps...does this mean next time our soldiers are in a comprimizing postion we have to wait until an election... I'd also like to remind everyone that soldiers are citizens as well, who also have a vote and opinions, and we should not be brushing them off, or letting thier opinions go unheard. I would not be posting at all if i did not give a damn, in fact it is the other way around, i'm very passionate, perhaps to passionate...i've seen the the destuction that a small group can bring to the masses. And seen first hand the help our nation is providing, and accomplishing and very much want that to continue...Not for any polictical reason, or grand scheme of control over others...but rather a much simplier reason, to help defend a people whom can't defend themselves....

We have already been down this path once already in regards to Afgan putting to death, one of it's people...the last one was for converting to be a christian...was it not... No, i'm not suggesting that Canadian troops will intervene...But i'm sure that NATO is doing something about it, which includes the Diplomatic corps, and NATO military advisors... I think we are all forgetting that we can not use the same measuring stick as we do for our selfs....and if we do put it in context that there nation is just starting out...we can't expect them to be at our level in just 6 years, when it's taken us over 200 to reach the piont at which we are now. My piont is they are just starting out and they are going to make some major mistakes along the way, it is what they do to solve the problem which we should be measuring. I don't think most Canadians understand just how large or how complicated this mission was or is...Nor do they understand the time frame that it will take to accomplish it....They've attached an unrealistic time table to it and fully expect us to follow it or leave....kind of like dropping off your car with a blown engine at the garage and telling them you'll be back after coffee break to pick it up....and i'm only paying for one machanic to work on it, and no air tools allowed, or mech hoists.... But then again nothing is certain, in war...and everything is attainable if you commit enough resources and lives to the problem. And while the majority of Canadians will state clearly, that our military is performing thier end of the mission, it is our government that lacks focus and drive....but i think we should also look at the Average Canadain as well. most are not as informed as they should be, most are not aware of the severity of the problem, most don't Care, and those that do care or concentrate on side bars, minor issues that seem to detract from the main issue...

So your confirming what we already know, they don't trust our soldiers to tell them whats going on....But i wonder what they would be saying if we had agreed with them"by screaming withdraw us now this is a farce". No it's not a problem, we have to trust the nation and it's people. not trusting them is not an opition.. I and many other military members have been telling you, you have just choose not to listen. You can't help but learn something about these people, we live with them, patrol thier streets, and country side, we talk to them on a daily basis, we see the progress of construction, and other aid projects...we know because we are on the ground, ....most of us have completed 3 or 4 tours of 6 to 7 months each , how could we not be better informed than the average Canadian...or for that matter the average media reporter, or avg polictical hack working for some party...

I understand now, thier to lazy to verify the info thru another source....I mean we are talking about the very people who had no problem in sending us there, "our troops are going to kick your asses now".......you have faith in us to sort out the problems" dispose of the bad guys", but would not trust us to tell the truth....especially since we as soldiers and indiv have so much to gain by staying over there.... It's a good thing we don't have that same problem, we as soldiers trust the Canadain public with our lives, we depend on you for our very existance, safety, and well being.....what do we know....

Even if i bought into your theories, which i don't.... we are in Afgan now and the germanic anglos are footing the bill so to speak, should we not make the best out of the situation and do what we can with what we've got.... You still have the freedom to chose do you not, work , pay your taxes, obey the law. if you chose not to do the above then yes your freedoms will be some what suspended....and most likely you'll sleep on a grate...but that is a choose you make ...not them....explain to me how your not free in ever sense of the word...does someone tell you whom to worship,when to pray,what to wear, what to look like, when to work, where to go, where not to go, what to spend your money on, who to marry, how many kids to have , what sex of children you should have, what ocupation you'll have , what kind of car you'll own, if you can own one, who to hate, who to like, ... Has anyone cut your hands off for going to school, threatened your family, executed any of your family, forced you to watch executions, peeled off all of your skin, and left you out in the sun...cut your tongue off for talking to a NATO soldier, blown up you or your family because of your beliefs.... Sorry i don't see why you would compare us and them....we've never been the same, never...apples and oranges...And if all i'll ever be is a surf or a smurf....then so be it...but i've traveled much of the world, and there is very few nations i'd like to call home...and Canada is one of them....So when our national Athem is played i stand, i salute, placing my hand over my heart and thank god i'm Canadian, that my family does not face the same problems as those that are not as lucky...

Why would you care what happens to these folks....you've already stated your case, let the natural order of things sort itself out....and thats what it is doing....don't worry those of that are doing something won't let this happen...but hey feel free to use all those freedoms that you have to voice your opinion.... And did i say thanks , i think we spent your 2 cents already, on things we need to hang on the wall here....picture of the queen i think....

No i don't speak for anyone but myself....that being said, are you listening to those that have spoken....what are they saying....quit, go home or stay and fight... i personally think that the majority of people are not listening...nor do they want to.....then there are the minority that have never really left our side.

Because they stopped being freedom fighters, after they had defeated to russians they wanted to improve thier nation so this would not happen again....after the war with the russians they radically changed what they stood for and what they wanted the nation to look like....they converted from freedom fighters to Taliban which open soccer staduims for exicutions, banned women from being seen, heard, from education, from working , from basically everything....but thats not all the banned eduacation materials , music, kites of all things, simple things that kids take pleasure in...they also banned political thinking , speaking ones mind, dictated how you dressed, how you looked, how you acted, and to ensure everyone was kept in line the used terror.....and killings....sounds like someone i want in my neibourhood.... It may go again'st logic....but it did happen...

Below is some good reading on why or what kind of person becomes a sucide bomber....2 theories....one is a persons quality of life, 2 and is religous beliefs.... sucide bombers history. Inside the mind of a bomber female bombers. There is never a problem getting someone to volunteer, if the mission is presented as critical to the war effort....such as the guns over navarone....or the intial assualts on D-Day....when soldiers knew the first wave would take extremily heavy cas, on some beaches over 75 % never made it off the beach.... I disagree, in total war what is the difference between dying from a well placed 500 lb bomb off a dive bomber or a well placed aircraft laden with fuel and explosives...The difference was the effect it had on moral of the receiving side....it struck fear into allied naval crews because they knew just how determined the enemy was.... And although the allied were willing to risk thier lives during war, they were not prepare to sacrifice oneself for the cause.... It is a poormans way to wage war or an act of desparation " such as the japanese." so has it become just another mode of war, i'd say it's always been there....hidden just beneath the surface.....hidden by random acts of bravery, or deparation.... The war museum has pictures of victoria cross winners , with discriptions of what we call acts of bravery....but when you read them you could boil it down to acts of deparation.... IE, a canadian pilot during the last days of combat in the pacific threater, has bomded and damaged a japanese destroyer...in the process his corsair is heavily damaged, and is in flames....he decides to crash his aircraft into the destroyer...he knows he is about to die...and decides to end it by taking as many of the enemy as possiable.... I think we face a culture that like ours, has it fair share of misguided individuals. And those that are wageing this war are taking full advantage over it....in those links most bombers are in thier 20's....ever gone to a university campus and look how many students get caught up in activists rolls....be it again'st abortion, the war, or animal rights, you name it, it's out there....what if you could take that a another step....convinced them that dying for this cause is a good thing....hey animal activists and abortion rights groups have already killed or done harm in the name of thier cause....all it takes is time and constant indoctrination....and thats here in North america.... Now add to that very poor living conditions, a very bleak future, throw in constant living in a war zone with death and destruction ....some religion, and constantly bombard them with how those others that have been bombers are hero's, throw some cash at the families throw a parade....or give them special status and you've got the makings of a bomber.... once recruited then they are husked away, for more one on one taining and indoctrination and now you have a bomber that "will" press the button.... Israel is the world expert in these matters, shutting themselfs off from the rest of the world....building a huge wall, massive security checks, getting thru Israelis airport security can take as long as 4 hours....they actually phoned my mother in Canada and had her answer questions....and i had a semi diplomatic passport, military ID, and travel documents.....I guess the question should be is what type of security are you willing to live with....and what rights you are willing to give up or have limited..... Some have said here that we made our selfs a target by going over there....we should have stuck to ourselfs....but fail to reliese they don't care if your Canadian or not, to them we are all the same US or Canadain and they won't stop once the US pulls out of Iraq, or Afgan ....they'll bring the fight to us...

Yes i very familar with the quote....but thats why you don't get it...You think that all soldiers are mindless robots doing as they've been told to do by thier masters....brainwashed to take the next hill, kill everything in between....but comes a time when every soldier questions why are they here....but you don't want to hear that ...

You doubt it or you know of it....so your commenting on something because you believe it to be true, but not sure....Yes the taliban were oppressive in thier interputations of Sharia law....but then again look back on our own religions past "nothing oppresive there"....just a bunch of rednecks interputation of the bible.... Our current laws and freedoms are based or atleast tainted on that very religion and is reflected in many of our current laws.... some that seem oppresive towards many muslim countries....But one can not compare the taliban rule to todays current government...and if you do then you truely don't know enough about the taliban and there ways.... And yet it does and still does have an effect on our laws and our customs... NO, it's the average Canadian fears they might be tortured....they finally found what they call a crediable witness that cliams to have been beaten with a hose and electrical cable....thats one out of the thousands we've taken prisoners....how long did it take them to come up with that....it's a good thing our own prison facilites are beyond appraoch....Now explain to me how one case is a mission failure...explain to me how our decision to stop these transfers is a failure....

Both of you have missed the piont entirely....Soldiers don't care which party sent us to afgan, libs or cons...they don't care about the history behind the decision, or why....All that becomes very clear once your on the ground, get off the plane in Kanadar and it hits you like a ton of bricks.... So why is it that most soldiers see the entire mission and purpose clearly after only a few days on the ground, and still the majority of Canadians can't see anything but doom and gloom.... Because you not listening thats why....instead you've been brainwashed by our media and lack of response by our government....Thats right not listening to those men and women we all seen fit to send over there....you know the ones that continue to serve voluntarily over and over again.... What do they know thier soldiers, i mean compared to the Average Canadian what could they know.... But nobody has stop for a second and asked why do they continue to volunteer over and over again....what is it that they see in that god foresaking land ? Don't they know it's unwinnable....what is it that they see that we don't.... It sure beats that long trip on a plane, the heat, dust and the smell...just to spend a few days behind the wire to find out WHY ?

GostHacked: By whom's standards, yours.... Is this why it's a failure because they have a law system based on religous background....Or because it does not look like or mirror our democracy, But does'nt our law system reflect our religion somewhat.... Does having a democracy with a law system based on religious values of sharia law make it any less secure....

A good read: CDS speaks.

Oleg Bach: This was bullshit the first time you wrote it, and it's still bullshit now...Oleg buddy...you run out of things to say, so now your recyling your old stuff....atleast come up with an orginal idea....you did call yourself a writter did you not....then write...

myata: The poll is meaniless because why exactly....because you did not give it, because it answered some of your questions...because it says they are more interested in peace and want us there.... Why is the poll meaniless.... Ya, your right, i guess wells, dams, electricity schools, hospitals and roads are all over rated....But come to think of it, they've had them before...so how are we trying to force them into what we think is good for them....oh right giving them a chance to elect thier own leader...giving them a chance to live in peace... Once again i'll try and explain this, all of our efforts are being directed by the Afganis government.... So you've done this nation building before, and this is your professional opinion.

Are you sure it's got nothing to with hate, Hard to tell by your comments below....in fact i can feel the love dripping of your baseless remarks...remarks backed up by a few examples, which you've painted the entire dept of national defense.... But then again opinions are like assholes everyone got one... As for our rampant attacks on innocent people, What attacks are you talking about, you can't be refering to Oka, are you.... Below are some interesting sites, that give facts not opinions....and while i could use your tactics and paint all aboringinals with the same brush.....i'll leave that up to you.... Aboriginal crimes. crime Bullshit....below is a site that has recorded the entire Oka crises...it's an aborginal site maybe you should get some of your facts right.... Warrior web site The Red cross was given free access to the Warriors, dropping off food, medical supplies, even bodybags... As for the women, and children, present in the camp, there were given plenty of opurtunities to leave...Same as the hundrds of warriors that had decided to leave....with more than 600 at the start of the crises and all that was left in the end was 35....warriors indeed. As for the girl getting bayoneted, i will not comment on, but it brings up this question...The military annouced clearly that it was going to clear the bridge, and in riot formations proceeded to do so....with bayonets fixed...My question is this what was a sixteen year girl and her 4 year old sister doing on the bridge in the first place....and why were they not removed from the bridge ( by the older warriors or by the older sister) when the army announced it was going to take it with force ?.....Did they think it was all a big joke, that the army would stop shy of thier postions....and say sike, just testing....So as much as you blame the soldier that stuck her....maybe some of that blame should be placed on those that were on the bridge, and herself,...for not looking after her little sister.....when you screw with the bull sometimes you get the horns.... But hey...we are not here to discuss what would be considered common sense....we're here to slag those big bad army guys.... In my opinon the Warriors are just a small number of misfits, wannebes, convicts, ,pimps,gangsters... that contribute nothing towards Canadian society or the Mohawk organization or thier cause.... Perhaps it's time you do some research on your own....

there is not a whole lot of wpns or military aid being spent in Afgan, hence why the Afgan army is still using russian left overs Ak-47, tanks, etc...there is military aid but it is being spent mostly on infra struture and wages for the afganis army....And we need to get them to a state so they can defend theyselfs. For what ever reason the Afgan conflict got started , there remains the fact we are in the middle of it, and instead of pionting fingers, we should be digging in and getting the job done...In Afgan that means more troops, to defeat those scumbags....and to allow for more construction.... Thats not the way i see it...while on patrol i see the kids playing outside the schools laughing and doing kid stuff...and i think thats why i'm here, that is my contribution to the Afgan conflict...building afgans future generation.... we also see shops , markets, hospitals, wells, where there was once none...thats why i go to assist in rebuilding a new nation.... So yes i've had some little problems making an adjustment from combat one day to life in Canada the next....but i would do it over and over again.... And when i look at my kids i wonder who would do the same if Canada was tommorows next afgan....and i hope thats there someone, some where that would do the same.... Soldiers don't give a shit about politics, whos in power and where, who started it, why it started ....they come and they go....whats important is that we make a difference in peoples lives...and i know we are doing that. thats why we keep going back tour after tour....And it's hard to discribe that , when everything else is working again'st you such as our government , our media....all competing to be heard....maybe it's time we stoped for a second and asked those that are paying for this mission with thier blood sweat, and tears and lives and just ask them why do you do what you do? and maybe just maybe we will all learn something....

Your every day average afganis....from across afgan. Here i will post it again , it was only a couple pages back... Afganis people poll What is your piont, that they can't stand on thier own to feet after 6 years...is that what we use as the standard here in Canada, we kick people off assistance after 6 years..."get you loser, we've funded you for to long" why are you so hung up on a time frame....

charter.rights: Pretty easy to paint a whole dept or group, or even a race with one brush stroke. but i guess hate does that clouds ones mind to the facts.......and i will call you on your prejudicial ignorance, in regards to our nations military. You've yet to provide a source that confirms your opinion or alligations....you've provided a source that has proven that a few individuals connected to the military it did the crime....but then again so could anyone find a source for any alligation that i might make in regards to aborginal people....I mean both our cultures have such a clean historical back ground....