Army Guy

Bluegreen: You find it distastful and cynical that we need a war to retool our military, put yourself in our soldiers boots, for just one day, the Military has been screaming for 20 years that our military is approaching rust out, and it has taken this conflict to get what little table scraps have been thrown our way.... I don't find it distastful, i find it disgusting. That good men and women need to pay for this very equipment with thier lifes, equipment meant to protect and defend this nation, and everyone in it...some thing that should be automatically given to us. Just think for a moment the level of dedication it takes to put your life on the line just to get some of the equipment you'll need to defend the same people who would not equip us properly in the first place.... And while you may think we are kissing other countries asses, i would perfer to call it professional courtesy extending our hand out and saying thanks...they did not have to be there when we needed them , they did not have to assist Canadian soldiers on a daily basis be it with arty support, air support, helo escort, helo transport, tank support, you name it, and yes we have also extended some of that to our allieds, We are after all on the same team, fighting for the same goals. we just happen to be the poor cousin....

Now that would be a good day in the CF...just to fill out existing Regiments, would be a good day...But it would mean doubling the size of the current army, by atleast another 3 Brigades. Approx another 15,to 20 K of pers. And as nice as the Cons have been they are not that nice.... It's true, recruiting is hitting all thier goals, set a few years ago to actually increase our size, but here is the catch, the avg age in our military is well over 37 years old, what this means is while we have increased intake, retiring members are out pacing them. DND can not process them fast enough. And while it would be nice to get more Infanteers, and other combat trades in....for everyone we hire we need to hire 5 to 10 support pers along with them...Some trades such as mechanic's for instance are just above the 50 % manned mark, and thier training is over a year long....and todays tech and equipment an Infantry regiment does not go far without these guys, they are already at 50 % doing twice as much with half the guys...and they are burning out...and getting out.... Add more fuel to the fire most if not all our combat units only have half to a third of their proposed vehs, and other equipment....that means it is in constant use, to coin a phase we drive it until it explodes, then the mechs get to look at....so every problem is a major one, very little in the way of small fixes.... and this is just one example...hence why i'm a little scepticle when it comes down to the rest and rebuild phase...because just to build us up to where we are suppose to be today, is going to take major funding, more funding than the cons can dream of... Sorry did'nt mean to paint such a gloomy picture, but it is going to get worsr before it gets better....

Normally i'd be the first one jumping up and down at the thought of getting a break, spending some time with the family, doing some other training, rebuilding the army with new toys etc etc...but i have my doubts that it will happen...for a number of reasons, one is if we are going to get a break , rest and recoup, and rebuild then we should at least try and accomplish something in that time frame...rebuilding a undermaned and under equiped force would be a worthy goal....but an unlikely one with the condition of the budgets and future monies...no funding then no rebuilding... Military And while we have been in the spot light for sometime, we've been dancing around on the fringes ...i'd like to remind everyone so have the Americans and British, Dutch, Australian,and others, and all will be there until this mission dies out...there is no end date for these countries, and they've been at our side since the start. and while we are contributing to the mission we are not doing so according to our postion as a G-8 nation...and if they are not going to rebuild us then they should just keep us here, which atleast will force them to equip and modernize the force here....

Nice catch i hav'nt seen that site for a while...but i think as far as the public is concerned this dog will always have fleas.

It is a double edged sword, but in todays world with so many conflicts ongoing, prevention of most, "perhaps not all" wars comes at a price and that is being prepared...A nation that has formiable defenses will force an attacker to find an easier target for thier aggresion. I think wild bill is bang on in his post...... Sorry, you lost me here. If you are preparing for war which will include not only defensive and offensive operations one must have all the wpns available.... What about Japan and the attack on Pearl harbour, in thier minds it was only a matter of time before US intervention, in order to protect themselfs they decided to strike first, so in there minds a preemptive attack was defending themselfs....Preemptive attacks have been used thru out history and considered defensive in nature, at least in thier (the users) minds....if the circumstances are right, then yes, preemptive attacks could be consirdered self defense.... Regardless if it is OK or not, would you sit around waiting for someone to harm or kill you..or would you take some sort of action, take pre cautions, control the situation to be more in your favour some how. and if it meant your or your families lifes would you take his life? But nations do not follow the same type of laws as we do...

BC, our entire purchasing policy, is extremily painful....which is made that more shameful, when these purchases could have saved lives.... The US government has offered our government many different outs, but we've pushed them aside....that just adds salt to those wounds....

Hey don't sweat it SmallC, no big deal. my orginal comments was not directed at you.

There seems to be some confusion as to our helo purchase, BC hit the nail on the head, and some of you are finding it hard to believe. We purchased the Ch-47F because there is simply no other like it, Most of our purchases have to be multi purpose, Our version of the CH-47F is unique, so much so that it requires extra time on the assembly line, our version requires to not only have the regular cargo specs, but also alot of Spec OPs specs, and SAR specs....hence why our price is higher, hence why our wait is longer, hence why the US just can't let us jump in que. But this was explained in the link i provided, and BC refed to. The US government has actually gone out of it's way to try and sell, lease, give us helos, not only with this deal but many in the past... and we have continily brushed them off, or refused them....and as much as i love the PC's when it comes down to piont fingers i'm sorry but you have to eat this one.... As for the poles, we do have access to 2 of thier 4 MI-17, provided that they are not using them for other missions, etc etc etc, sounds good on paper, until you try a book a helo....so back to square one...Soon however we will have our own CH-47D d's the ground, that will be here to service us first , coalition next....

Black dog That was after, of course that Soviet Spec ops teams killed the Afgan leader that refused soviet assistance, and then installed one to thier liking....

Lets stick to the facts shall we, there was a "free election", in fact people traveled by foot serveral hundrd KMs to get to the voting stations, and they did all this are constant threat from the Taliban and others....you don't make that kind of commitment unless you know exactly what a free election is and what it could mean to your future....There was an education process, completed by the intern government and the canidates themselfs.... another tidbit of info as for occupied by foreign troops, one can not occupy a country that has asked for your assistance. Canada has not todate spent 18 Bil dollars on the mission to Afgan, infact that recent art in the papers is full of crap, Canada's contribution is more on the security side of the house, as that is there choice, But if you put it in contect of the entire mission, there are bils that have been spent on infra structure such as dams , road net works, trading routes, etc etc ... I never decided anything, our governmant did, and at that time the majority of Canadians stood behind that decision, Our government was answering a request from the interm Afgan government to provide assistance in the areas of rebuilding, security, and governmantal education. I know this is hard for you to believe, but Afganistan is run by an the Afgan people, freely elected to those postions, by the Afgan people....without NATO interference. They have been speaking to the outside world , you have just not been listening. As for the comment about not been able to take of themselfs, i'd say yes, for the time being...short term assistance is needed. Bullcrap, this is something you invented , your wish list of things you'd like to see happen....a country does not need anyones go ahead not a court not UN, not NATO to defend itself, or in this case take offensive action to punish an attacker... The UN did authorize the use of force, once again you need to reread the 2 UN decisions, and then read NATO's requirements to use Art 5. read them again, as for crimes agains't humanity being the only justification, thats in your opinion, and one not based in fact...., there are many reasons laid out in the conventions as to why a nation may take military action again'st another state... You don't get it, which is a good thing i guess.....In war there are very few rules, the objective is to kill more of the other side until they reach thier tolerance level, or face total destruction...in combat how much morality is there in the act of crushing a mans skull with the butt of your rifle....or chocking him to death by stepping on his throat....there is no morality,or high ground in which we sit and beat our chests and say see why we are the good guys....we don't use sucide bombers, we don't use children in combat....but in the end, we are still taking lives, and we do it in any matter we can to ensure we are the victor..as the victor gets the spoils and to write history....but in reality war sucks and men and women do what it takes to survive.... the only way to deal with someone with a stick, is to have a bigger stick....the come here and give me a hug rarely works....having a bigger stick always works...

The long delay from decision to buy to contract signature is due to a combination of vacillation and an overly ambitious operational concept for the aircraft on the part of key procurement staff in the Department of National Defence (DND) and the Canadian Forces. Instead of accepting accelerated delivery of the advanced CH-47F now in production for the US Army as was done with the C-17, Canada is pushing for a unique version of the Chinook with the ability to satisfy a ballooning list of requirements, including SOF support and SAR in the Arctic. The result is a one-off 'Canadian' hybrid of the CH-47F and the MH-47G in production for US Army Special Operations aviation, with the latter providing increased range, an enhanced defensive aids suite and additional sensors. The result is likely to be much heavier, more expensive and will take longer to build, test and bring into service than standard CH-47F's, and will be much more difficult and expensive to maintain, particularly given their unique pedigree. Canada also apparently declined US offers of leased CH-47D's as an interim measure, which would have permitted the air force to provide tactical helicopter support Canadian troops in Afghanistan from 2007 rather than relying on the overworked US Army. janes. I'm not a helo expert, but this is a purchase unrelated to the chaps program, it was listed for 395 mil and it is just for these 6 A/C although it was mentioned somewhere that these helos will be withdrawan one by one as the new 47F's arrive and they will be upgraded to f plus specs. I'm not sure if it mentions what cockpit they are. CSAR

No we took our tanks, our aircraft, everything we own, for all those taskings i mentioned....does that disappiont you that we did not force anything on anyone, in fact we where welcomed with open arms... The interm Afgan government, then the freely elected government of Afgan, that is who they are....as for the providing security it was part of the request that we agreed to...you can't rebuild much of anything without security... Then you don't understand the entire mechanics behind the problem, and still you've made up your mind without all the facts, do you do this with all your problems, or just this one... It does not translate into bombing, that is just your misinformed opinion, many projects in Afgan do not have anything to do with using force..... but those are forgotten or swept under the radar...as they don't support your argument. Have you been following this debate, those millions form the majority of the country, and they do not want anything to do with the Taliban....not now and not before in the past....they were ruled by threat of force, carried out daily....and to suggest that the Taliban regime did not commit any crimes again'st humanity is absolute crazy talk.... But when i asked you to confirm, what you stated.... Kind of a hypocrictical statement is it not....It's ok for the Taliban to get away with murder....live and let live...let nature take it's course. But as soon as we take action to punish them ....then now we have a problem....we can't do that, what right do we have ..... The rule you made up, are you sure your following along....this is your quote is it not... Re read the Mandates that were agreed to by the UN, then re read art 5 of the NATO charter, and tell me that did not cover any and all actions taken in Afgan todate....I honestly do understand it, in fact i'm living it as we speak.... Sorry but i need a translation please, i can't make any sense of it... Yes good forbid we look worse than the bad guys while wiping them off the face of the earth, and while i do get your piont, you sure do spend alot of time and effort making sure we come out on top of the morality meter....in a event that really does lack morality and values.... As to what matters, all that matters is that history will be written by the victor....and in the end we will all be judged by our peers, countrymen, and others by what is recorded in history....

You've got to be kidding me, guess we should have shown up with hockey gear and a bag full of teddy bears. we showed up to the Ice storm, toronto snow storm, winninpeg floods with the same equipment, and not once did we force any morals or values down anyones throat.... And we have proved that hundrds of times since you've been posting here and you still have not picked up on it....it has also been explained to you they have asked for our help, they understand unlike you, that they at this time can not do it all themselves so pulling out at this time would prove what exactly....nothing...your under the notion that if they wanted bad enough they will do it, but you fail to understand the effects of 30 plus years of war and just how beaten down these people are, and what shape thier country is in. During our attacks on the taliban, and the removal of that regime, we as NATO now have the responsabilty to assist that nation in rebuilding. i know you don't get it, ... So what your saying is it is OK for serveral thousand people to rule over millions....and in order for them (the millions)to survive they must change those traditions and practices to conform or perish....Just so i'm straight on this issue, the Strongest group will dictate over the weak...it is the law of nature is it not....But and there is always a but....the outside world should guarantee that crimes against humanity are not tolerated.... Who made up that rule, was it the international courts, the UN who ? and what are the consquences for breaking that rule....i get kicked out of the club, i mean you did say that is as far as we should go....a stern warning..... How did that work out for the Afgan situation....did'nt the US give them stern warning....they laughed, so what should have been the next step....in your own words... How far back do we have to go back in our history to have a clean record, be able to talk about peace,good conduct....and yes while we do have a some what jaded past, you fail to mention all the good things our nation has accomplished or set the standard for....but like the saying goes you can build a thousand homes , do they call you a carpenter NO, slap one guys ass, and not call out "good game" and your a homo for life.... Perhaps you can explain all those UN mandates then, "sorry" they did vote and the taliban were removed....are you saying what the UN did is illigal...that would be interesting post.... your right but all that has happened todate is a continuation of your very own policy, the strongest inposing thier will over the weakest....in this case the Taliban kicked in a hornets nest, and the hornets nest kicked thier ass....along with all those that took the wrong side....and if the taliban don't like it they can move on, or they can conform or perish, suffer the same fate as "you" have left the millions of regular Afgan citizens who don't want any part of the Taliban or thier way of life....

Yes, the morality portion of this mission has recieved the majority of the headlines and attention, but who can blame them it really, any government engaging in a war needs the support of the people or it is going to fail.....but Morality it is not the only reason we are here. our primary reason was to fullfill our defensive pact aggrements and treaties, does not sound as good as we are here to help the defenseless Afgan people... And Yes, you are correct, Canada would not be in Afgan had it not been for the US, our treaities with NATO, and other defensive pacts, and agreements...Nobody would, and the Taliabn would be thriving today.. Not according to Myata, nobody has the right to interfer, everyone is entitled to do whatever we choose regardless of consquences. There is not alot of confidence in those figure here, alot can happen in 3 years....

Of course you have proof of that or is it your opinion ? please give us a link or source that proves we the west have set conditions on our assistance forcing them into doing things our way.......Where we have forced our ways, our values, our morals, our anything on the people of Afgan... Lets just for sake of argument your right, the Taliban do have a right to exist as before the war, where do they exist ? and what of those that want nothing to do with the taliban and thier ways, don't they have rights as well ? or are they forced to live under the Taliban ? where do they exist ? and if we in the west don't have the right to decide what is good or bad, then who is going to decide where these groups exist ? And what happens when the Taliban wants to use force and expand, who gets to decide what action is required ? or do we close our eyes and let them settle matters themselfs let nature take it's course.... Mean while back in the west to we add this new found wealth of wisdom to our everyday lives....does this mean that i can kill my niebour because she swims naked in her pool, because i have the rights do do anything i want to , be it under the guise of religion, human rights, personal beliefs the list goes on.....does it mean i can use force to get what ever it is i want....like separate from Canada and have a small chunk of my own nation ARMYGUYVILLE...all hail Armyguy....i can hear it now... Sorry But back to the real world armyguy, Someone, has already made up those rules, in fact a majority of nations have sat down at the UN and decided together that if we where all going to play in the same sandbox we need some guide lines....carrying out terrorist avtivities is a no no, so is mass murder, so is dening basic human rights....i know i happens all over the globe everyday, and we sit by and watch it all happen....but we can't help them all ....with a few exceptions, Afgan is one of those .... So to answer your question the Sandbox has voted, and it's time to kick the Taliban off the island....the world has decided it would be a happier place without them....so it's not the few guys on this forum, or for that matter anyone with the power to make those decisions as Harper has....it was a collective decision, by many nations....

You need to stop dancing around the issue, there are laws in which govern how each of us act and what we can do, or not do ,same for nations, and when there is no law then they sit down and make one or by majority vote on what action is nessicary. So there is always an abiter, and there is always rules in which we or nations conduct ourselfs, so no we can not do what we think is right, if there is a law in place to prevent such acts. Yes Canada does care about child soldiers, No Omar is not a child soldier, And here we go once again, lets drop everything about this mission which effects millions of lives daily, to look after the needs of one and i say again one Canadian citizen, whom should have been deported long ago.... Lets make sure that we look after his needs, make sure he recieves the treatment he requires first and foremost, after all there is still soldiers awaiting the same type of treatment....but thats another topic is it not.....and while we are at it, what of the others that need treatment, be it mental or physical, that have been effected by this whole affair, wifes , children of our soldiers, yes the forgotten ones.... they've still yet been looked after....not to mention the thousands of regular Afgan citizens that have been effected by these scumbags, where is thier treatment....i know it is next on your list of things to bitch about.....so i'd like to ask why has Omar recieved a bump in the line up because he is 15, or because he sits in a jail cell , recieving 3 meals a day, medical treatment, metal health care treatment, his religious needs are meet, his education needs are being meet, he has free lawyer staff....all on someone elses dime....Give me a break... There has been more than enough links and info made available to make a strong case that proves Omar was not a child soldier, that there has been in the past, children tried and convicted under Canadian law and justice system providing that they commited serious crimes, and recieved serious adult sentences...You can't see that because of the tears.... Your still convinced that he was partaking in this war not as a terrorist but rather as a soldier resisting foreign invaders....which does not surprise me, but facts have been presented that he was in fact a member of Al quida....a terrorist group....there has been proof he did take part in the planting in mines and IED's, in fact a home movie of Omars was found....so he has taken part in terrorist activities, which makes him a terrorist, not a legal combatant....he was also part of a fire fight between US and Afganis forces, although there is no evidance he partook he was there and did have a wpn found next to him.... So existing laws have branded him an illigal combatant, ...and while a few have discussed giving him a free pass, i think our court or justice system should determine his actual status, to determine if he could be charged with adult crimes.... we as a nation need to prepare for that day, when they do sentence him, we need to set an example, to let the other child soldiers know there is consquneces to thier actions....so i don't have to face them on the battle field... Omar will not be the last child soldier, out of this conflict....

You did ask the below question did you not, Justification does matter and that fact is reflected in how we judge people, and the amount of punishment we hand out for each crime....and judgement and punishment is what we've been discussing here, and how much Omar should recieve.... My examples i gave you illustrate why justification does matter. good question, i did'nt make that comment.

I've always meant to ask what is the purpose of the star rating system, how is it determined. My next question is about post counter, mine has been SNAFU'd for a long time now, And while the count does not mean much, it does let me know how much time i spend here...

please explain to me at this piont in time, what possiable good could come of this entire situation if our government demanded omars return....and what do you think our government would dole out as his punishment....keeping in mind our inter national commitments and our reputation in the eyes of our allieds. Because it is not just Canada's problem it's the entire coalition's problem...and nobody has told the big boys what they are doing is wrong and we don't want to play with you anymore until you sort yourself out....and until that is done we as a nation can't sit around pretending we are not as guilty as the rest of them....just knowing the problem exists makes us guilty.... you don't get it, nor will you, this group of people exist only to put under thier thumb an entire nation of millions...to abuse, kill , and treat as they see fit....who gives them that right....do some research and find out what these sweat hearts are capable of, what they are still doing today....see thier victims, hear thier stories of thier pain and suffering...hey they have their own web sites, view with your own eyes thier accomplishments, thier exploits, view tape after tape of innocent cilvilians being killied, allied soldioers being blown up....heads being cut off with a dull knife Yes hear the screams, the pleas of thier victims as they peel a mans skin off his body....... Then sit there with a straight face and tell me you have compassion for those that call themselfs the taliban, Al Quadia, or the dozens of other groups operating here in Afgan... for me i've seen it played out day after day and when we assualt a mud hut complex, filled with bad guys the only thing i care about is are my bullets striking the target....not what they think of Canada as a nation, but rest assured i do make it a piont to tell the survivors who just kicked thier ass, and what nation i come from.. It is the Canadian way , to be more concerned about the bad guys and our worlds reputation than we are our own soldiers....Omars case has recieved more attention than our equipment shortfalls, or military condition in general....those don't sell papers or make for good supper conversation .....case in piont, can you name a few items that our military critically needs right now....

myata: Yes dead is dead , that is what your saying and the events leading up to that death don't matter...the result is the same, regardless of intention, or circumstances.... Do you think someone who kills someone with their car accidentally, should receive the same punishment as a serial murder. and if not then justification does matter.... Do we punish police officers for taking a life in the line of duty....why not ? what is our justification for that.... I know your having a hard wrapping your mind around this problem, but until you've lost all your current freedoms then it's tough to sit back and say the accidental deaths of innocent people during war time is the same as herding them into death camps, the result is the same but the justification and our moral fibre are not....

Peter: I don't know why I even posted that situation in the first place, it's the first time I even mentioned it since it happened. and on a public forum , well it was just plain stupid, I guess I was getting frustrated trying to make my point ....it did nothing to support my argument. I'm glad your passionate about your believes, but like you I'm very passionate about my job, being able to help those in need is why I'm here....it is why I became a soldier. I came to the conclusion along time ago, that war sucks, and conflict resolves very little...but in today's world there are people that thrive on bringing grieve to others...someone has to stand up for the little guy, and in doing so sometimes we are forced into doing things that are not highlights of ones life. There is a position for everyone in this world, including peace niks....it ensures that all the checks and balances are maintained....and while I may not agree with you on many issues, I do appreciate your comments.

You are correct, but they stop being civilians once they become a threat. such as our young boy with the Explosive vest. Actually the situation is very real, and i posted it earlier, and it has happen to me....and in those brief seconds you have to think, i ran out of options, they're was 8 Canadian soldiers in our op, most were sleeping without thier vests on, behind them was a market full of people.... i was in the wrong place at the wrong time, MY Sgt Major whom was screaming at one of my peers to shoot, was in tears, and hestating....like we all were, as we all have kids....and i have an 9 year son.....3 off us decided to take the shot at the same time, so that little boys face did not haunt just one person, That boy was only 75 feet from our postion, after he was felled, the boys handler detonated him, injuring over 20 people....our actions saved lives....atleast thats what i tell myself....

I would of hoped you would have already known that answer, but it is becoming clearer that you did'nt really do any research on this topic....I mean help me out here are you suggesting that life for the Avg Afganis was better under the Taliban rule ? but hey, if you think you can conduct military operations in this enviroment, and do a better job, then i would gladly step down, and you can have my seat on this wonderful adventure.... I wish it was all about good intentions, and handing out teddy bears, and candy....as most Canadians could relate to this....but it's not .....it's about Combat and hunting down scumbags that have commited serious crimes agains't humanity, and in some cases on par with those committed by NAZI's in WW II.... These scumbags are commited to thier cause, which is to forcefully hold the majority of the Afgan population firmly under thier thumbs...you see without the majority to abuse they have no cause, no reason to exist... But after 30 years of War, the majority of Canadians don't think they deserve peace, that they can handle peace, they are not smart enough for peace, I think if they spent one day in thier shoes, or just talked to them for 5 minutes, you'd see they're just like you and me....and deserve alot better than what they're getting now.... But right now it is our soldiers that are doing all the lifting over here, And yes we are human, trying to work in an impossable enviroment, you see we are at war, and while we try everything we possiable can to avoid cas on all sides ...Murphy's law is forever present, mistakes happen and the loss of life is sometimes not avoidable....And like i've said before if you can think of a better solution i'm sure our government is all ears...i know i'am all ears....but until i see your sunny face over here and your chewing the same ground i am....don't judge me or my comrads intentions, or motives for being here....were giving you 150% of everything we have....what are you giving....

I don't mean to burst your bubble, but that's not what your nation sent you over there to do. Soldiers are doing more over there than just providing the Taliban with moving targets...and while I applaud your bravado, I think you underestimate you will to survive. So while you live to fight another day, perhaps save many of your comrades lives in doing so, maybe even some innocent civilians as well....hopefully you can spot the kids handler and put a hole in his forehead as well, you see the Taliban don't trust their own bombers, they always have someone in the crowd with detonation device to ensure they blow up their target, or have second thoughts...Ya nice guys all the way around...

I think your getting confused, Yes the ISAF mission was originally a UN mission, however it was centered around Kabul the capital, and consisted of only a few countries...and it was one of many missions in Afgan at the time. Canadian ground forces did not take part in this UN mission, When it took over the ISAF mission, that same day it was switched to a NATO mission. Canada may of supply some of the bullets used in Iraq, and Afgan, but don't make it sound like we are a major player. at least not sitting next to the worlds largest military industrial nation in the world. Is that what we are calling it now MATURE, when you gut a dept almost to the point of failure. I call it irresponsible. if most Canadians knew exactly what shape our military was in today they would be sickened. Give us an example when this has ever happened. Miss May needs to climb down from her BC pine tree, there was a time when our military was called the Canadian Armed Forces, but that was to aggressive for even the liberals, we can't be scaring anyone , shit we're Canadians....the word "Armed" was removed and is now call just Canadian forces, another great use of our tax dollars, as the word Armed had to be removed from all aircraft, vehs , correspondence, manuals everything. Because we didn't want to offend anyone, scare anyone, give me a break.... We defend this country with a big stick, and when doing so, beat people with it....