Army Guy

yes lets look at facts, and when you compare the size of militarys along with the equipment they pocess, and it's capabilities....you'll quickly find that there is no one on the world stage can come close to the US military machine... Iraq and Afgan is a walk in the park, and while yes it is a small form of projecting power, don't let it fool you the US military machine is very much able to project 3 to 4 times that amount on very short notice.... I think you should re read those history books, the US was well on it's way to pushing the Japanese back, japanese navy was all but broken, it's airforce was in effective, and it's army was not capable of offensive operations on a large scale....The use of WMD was a polictical decision meant to actually save US military lives...by forcing the Japanese into a quick surrender....The taking of each of the occupied islands was a costly endevor, and was chewing up alot of US military pers due to the fact the Japanese were not ready to surrender, and perfered to fight to the last man.... So it was not a matter of being forced to resort to using WMD, but rather a way of saving lives.... Any wpn sys can be used both offensivily and defensivily, Aircraft carriers where used defensivily in the pacific threater...as well as offensiveily such as the attack on pearl Harbor...NATO was concieved to counter Russia expansionism, and the spread of communism....very effectivily i might add, as we don't have to line up for hours for bread, vegs, toilet paper, and all the rest of our comodities....at that time the Russia military machine had well over 300 divsions in uniform, a division is made up of any where from 18 to 25,000 troops do the math ....on both east and west borders,you see they don't get along with China either....and defending Europe was NATO with it's 30 divisions, relying on troops and equipment sent from across the atlantic....mostly US, some British, etc....anyways one can not afford to have to many offensive operations when your out numbered 10 to one....Over time Russia has let these capibilties erode....and that has left the US in sole ownership of the bigest guy on the block with the most toys... It's not new, it's been that way since man first learned how to pick up a stick and beat someone with it....Let me ask you this lets take one of Canada's worldly good deeds, like the ban on land mines....do you think that the results may of been different if say the US championed it....Why ? Like or not having a massive military does get you a seat at the table...and when Nations start throwing thier wieght around, the biggest army normally wins....I'm sure the Rwanda thing could have been solved if the US had parked serveral A/C carriers of the coast and said stop or i'll start bombing....it is what other nations notice, it is what most men understand....

Historically how would mother Russia explain poland during the Second world war, or for that matter the Czechs conquest, i know they were on the fringes of russia, and needed to be secured for Russia's safety...And while the Soviets did not claim any sat for themselfs they did enjoy spreading communism, around the globe. I think Russia misses that world super power feeling and with it's new found wealth will be developing it's military once more...but that is going to take years to complete...until then it will have to be content to occasional get slapped around on the polictical map by the US...as for finding anyone else to partner up, it may be possiable in certain areas of the world such as tawain a russia /China operation but in most other areas thier is no one equal to the US ability to power project, not individually or combined...Russia is not looking for a partner, it's looking at the whole pie for itself...

Much has been written in regards to the mission in Afgan and it's legality, and it's argued by many lawyers, whom are more educated than myself. That being said lets look at a few organizations that have said for the most part operations in Afgan are legal. The UN itself has authorized not only ISAF portion but also the US and coalition portion...And perhaps it is a fault of mine, but if the UN has given the green light, one would hope they have studied it, ensured it was legal before they put there stamp on it... Human rights watch.... i mean come on your not going to get any more unbais than these guys....and i'm sure they have also studied the crap out of it and gave it there thumbs up... I'll leave it to you to decide but when i'm in dought i always go with the UN for law anyways...and that info is available on thier web site. Legal True enough, but bin ladin confessed without any duress or capture, and is quit proud of that achievement. along with all of his chain of command, it is quit a coup for them to hurt the worlds only major super power the way they did... As for America setting this whole thing up, Afganistan has nothing to offer, except opuim and rock, and maybe a oil pipe line route...hardly worth all the expense for what the US has already paid out...and for the amount of effort the US is really putting into getting said goals....i mean with well over 2.5 million troops under arms why not just crush afgan with one major campiagn....instead they have placed just under 30,000 troops there not enough to really do anything but keep the status quo.... Crashing an airliner into a building is hardly performing aerial acrobatics, one has to remember that these terrorist where schooled to fly in the US, albiet on smaller aircraft, reprograming the aircrafts computers, being familar with cockpit layout can be taught by book or for that matter a number of flight sims available at your local gaming shop....really not hard for someone that was determined... For good reason, for a short period of time we live here, we interact with the Afgan people daily, we see the ups and downs, we see thier pain, we see it live everyday it's not clouded with political agenda's, personal opinions, media slant....we see it as it happens....and we think we can make a difference here. But this mission was suppose to be a Canadian one, and thats not what it is now, it is a Military one, in which we do all the heavy lifting and work, and yet have no say in anything....and with the exception of the minority we have been abandoned. I'm a little confused, by your comment, first you say we are involved in the wrong cause or mission, perhaps even an illigal conflict ,...then say we are keeping them at bay...which would lead me to believe that you agree we should be here fighting them scumbags....and while i thank you for your concern, it sounds like your on the fence.... The reason i even said anything was for 99.9 % of the soldiers here know exactly, what we are here for and why we need to be here, and why we need to stay....and we bring that to this mission every second of everyday we are here....what we need the folks back home to do is bring that same type of energy to this mission, either get us out of here , or throw your support in with us and our fight....because we can not win until you do....with out your support all of our effort is for naught...

Your facts are not 100 % correct, how do you explain the below link Canadian armed forces units where on the ground in 2001 and in combat by early 2002. So there was definatly a "coalition of the willing" CAF "Alleged" you did see the tape which aired across the globe where he annouces he was responsable for the 9/11 attacks, plus the mountains of evidence compiled from numerous other persons that all piont thier fingers at Bin Ladin, and his merry band of thugs, shit confessions obtained from his chain of command all said he was in charge assisted with the planning, and very much knew what was going on....he is guilty without a dought, even he has said as much.... what more do you need a court of law to prove it...There was enough edvidance for the UN to sanction the attacks....but not enough to make a believer out of you.... 2 out of 3 is more than just some.... Have a read of this sites they may provide you with some insight, if you need more there is more, it's getting early here and i have to get some rack time. CF Afgan

Don't get me wrong, the are still very powerful nations, just they do not come close to the power that NATO or the US can project...I guess i should have been more specfic, Yes both Russia and China does have limited abilities to project power, Russia used to have a massive ability to project power. which would include the ability to land marines in large numbers, or Aircraft carrier battle groups, massive amounts of Airbourne soldiers with aircraft to get them there....and large follow-up forces and the means to get them there....The US on the other hand can land several divsions of marines, Airbourne troops plus they have the navy to secure the waterways and the Aircraft carriers to protect the entire force, for as long as it takes....Russia and china lack that capibilty....and that was what i meant to project power any where in the world... So over all having a few Russian bombers in South America is not a large threat, and would be easily swept away by US defenses....but park serveral US naval aircraft carriers battle groups off the russian coast and see what kind of reaction you get....

Yes but to be a global superpower you must be able to project your military strength globally....Russia or China can not do that. Which is why they are not really taken seriously, there're threats are kind of hallow so to speak....I'd say they are listened to by NATO and the US , but not to the level they (russians, or china) are demanding...

And your entitled to your Opinions, my concern is cementing them with the wrong or false info. Thats been one of the biggest problems about this mission, the lack of clear direction and info regarding this mission.... from both our Government, and the media. And is why i continue to post here. .But what you failed to do is explain WHY you feel we should pull out NOW. what "facts" have cemented your Opinion. The problem with the Majority of Canadians is they can't explain "why" they want out, they just want out....And they don't care about "why" we should stay and assist...just that it is thier opinion and it must be right.... But me as a soldier, who is now on his third tour, has to much blood sweat and tears invested to just take your opinion as gosple, or the right thing to do...Convince me is what i'm trying to say...or atleast listen to my side of the story... Norman: Norman you know more about Canadian politics than i do, does it disappiont you to here that from the Cons, during an election run....How many times have "they" meaning any political party made promises only to have them changed after the election....One thing about the Canadian people is they have short memories, and are very forgiving....how many scandals did the liberals have, and continued to serve.... My guess is that decision will be changed before the pull out deadline, whomever is in power will have come up with a whole new idea to sell it to the people, and come the next election, it will all be a distant memory.... As one of Canada's better generals, i think his record speaks for itself.

Would it surprise you, that any poliction broke thier promise. There is alot riding on this Operation , not only for Canada, but NATO, and the entire alliance. enough that yes i would forecast any of the parties once elected would extend the mission....

This is your quote is it not ? Since your currently on the soap box and making a bold statement as you did please explain, why NATO's reasons are false... The offical reason's are posted on various government web sites, which i could provide you a link if you like. But then again you are already well aware of the reasons, i mean one would have to be in order to debate the subject...at least i hope so anyways. Again you are not certain of that, your guessing...lots of infra struture that the soviets built is still being used today...I don't think alot planners have that in mind when major construction projects get under way, piss on that they'll only destroy it when we leave....we can't re build a nation with that in mind, we must be postive and look towards a better future for Afgan if we are going to suceed. You've said your self Afgan is not a western democracy, and nor was it meant to be, it's a Afganistan democracy, with all the good, bad and ugly...and it will change over time, with us there or with out us. Piont here is NATO is not forcing the current Afgan government into anything, nor does it set policies, it advises and steps back and lets the Afgan government take it's own course of action....Unless you can prove other wise then your whole statement is "OPINION" and everyone has one of those.... Yes they are, but NATO is not an invading force, and was asked by the freely elected government of Afgan to stay and assist with building a new nation....those freedoms and rights they now have were brought to the people by that very government....Not NATO, or anyone else... But i'm sure you can prove other wise...or is this your OPINION again. Here's where i get confused, the senseless loss of lives on our side is being paid by our soldiers, diplomates and a few aid workers, and they do this because they believe in this cause, and it's the right thing to do.... Lives on the other side, are for the most part being paid by the Taliban and thier merry band of followers, they are dying so they can force the majority into thier way of thinking and life....( your familar with thier ideals are you not) The only sad part about this whole operation is the Afgan people that are caught in the middle, and while we would all agree it is a terriable plight, and something needs to be done, the Majority of Canadians perfer to do nothing....but sit and watch as these people go on suffering. The evidence is out there all you have to do is research it, OB and his merry band of terrorist omitted to carrying it out, the Taliban back them up, and offer them sanctuary....but please do explain how you have come to the conclusion that nothing is true and NATO, including our nation has commited any crimes. I just wanted to end with this most people firmly believe we are pulling out in 2011, It is my OPINION that we will be here much longer than that regardless of who becomes PM....

Yes what a sham, for centuries Man has attempted to fly, go to the moon, walk on water, time after time year after year it was proven that man was not meant to do none of the above...and yet today were flying in huge double decker planes, walked on the moon, and have walked on water...History has shown us alot of things but is no means the end all to be all in what things can be accomplished by man if he sets his mind to it. Enlighten us PC, what cause is false... Yes there is alot of pain in Afganistan, but things have changed since mother Russia's sudden departure....The country now has major Hyways, major Dams, and a long list of other improvements...and even a form of Democracy, all given to them not by force, but rather open arms, perhaps you can give me one source, proving NATO is forcing Democracy or for that matter anything down the throats of the majority.... As for the kids handling wpns professionally got to love mother russia for giving them that oportunity, heck they even provided the arms to do it but this is not about providing a people with a chance at some of the rights and freedoms and things we take for granted everyday. This is about "bringing our troops home right now" because PC and others think it is wrong, or can't be done.... So while we all are sitting down here talking about this lets just ask ourselfs what is it costing us, i mean every Canadian tax payer, a quick est would say about 20 dollars out of your entire tax bill....Ya to some it's alot of money but come on it's not even a case of beer....for what a chance at giving some nation of millions a decent chance of peace.....other than that what else does it cost the avg tax payer....nothing, our soldiers are picking up the heavy end, and glad to do it as well, there is no bitching or moaning or shouts for debates....Tell ya what send me your name and address and i'll send you your 20 bucks. if it would mean carrying on with something more important it would be worth it....

The military spends alot of time and money training and equiping it's soldiers and chain of command for just this type of situation..train for the worse case situation, and you'll be prepared for everything inbetween. Case in piont you may remember during operation Mudusa, Afgan, one of the rifle companys of the RCR was mistakenly attacked serveral times by an American A-10, the company was still in the field, with a heavy Taliban presence... The company was reduced to combat ineffectiveness in the matter of minutes, meaning they had suffered more than 55 % cas....and although it was extremily cautic they manged to treat and evac well over 1/2 thier combat numbers and keep large numbers of Taliban from taking advantage of the situation...One can not do that if your training is not there or your not prepared... Just a side note, this company was quickly reorged, and put back into the fight, which has to speak volumes to the soldiers that accomplished this feat...but then again our history is full of these type of feats.... As for Georgia being a NATO army, is a very unfair comparison, one does not spend hundards of years under Russian rule and doctrine and then in a few short years mange to convert to a western army....it will always have a Russian flavour to it, for many years to come... As for the statement NATO won't fight, it is fighting, tking on more and more roles as the UN becomes ineffective, or powerless, are they roles that NATO should be involved with, absolutly not, but that is where we are today. Howl from a distance, better to howl than to commit thousands of troops in conflicts we may not walk away from, be careful of what you wish for....As for scaring anybody, large parts of NATO sure scared the crap out of Sadam, not once but twice......Even Russia knows the strength of NATO,

My son knows more about tanks, and armour than this guy, give me a break, i thought you where making a case for russian tanks and hardware, not comparing 2 western tanks which work side by side on most battle fields again'st soviet designs... There are many ways to discribe tank kills, and during the first and second Gulf war, The Iraqi's did not mange to get one tank kill, yes they did mange to get some mobility kills, describe as immobilzing a tank, however the crew is still very much alive and able to still fight from thier postion....big difference....And yes there was many accounts of M-1's having Iraqi Sabot rounds stuck in the front mantels failing to penatrate anything vital...Russia was very quick to let the world know these were very old and discontinued rounds much to the Iraqis displeasure.... And while the Russians have improved thier Sabot rounds performance "even release tech data sheets to prove that thier rounds can penatrate the front armour of a abrams....they have yet to prove it, or sell them abroad to anyone important...mean while the US and german, Israel governments have surpassed the russain claims and proved thier claims on on russian tank examples, often left around the world by fleeing russians or taken in combat by western forces.... Plant enough explosives in a hole and you can kill anything, what is the piont ...you can kill an abrams, yes we know that , but you must admit russian tank crews where very concerned when a Silver bullet fired from a M-1 penetrated the front hull of a T-72 vaporized the crew, , contined out the back along with the entire engine assy, and was found some 50 feet behind the T -72....That look on Russian tank commanders faces would have been priceless.... Now we know the T-72 is not the top dog in the Soviet military, not even in the top 5, mostly considered an export version....but lets face it, the Russians never did figure out Chobham armour or develope any simlar tech break through... yes they may have added more armour to the front of thier future tanks , but that silver bullet did pentrate the entire length of the T-72 how much better is the T-90, or the T -95...which have not been built in any great numbers.... But armour is not what makes a soviet tank great, is it, so send up the white flag, western tanks are bettered armoured always will be....as we don't have the man power the russians have , we give our crews the means to survive.... Now Russia did design a tank gun that fires a missle with a range of excess of 6 km's....which does offset some advantages in certain types of terrain....I'd persue that angle if i was you.... How many SU-37's are operational, compared to say F-22, and F-15's, Give me a break, more angry because they hav'nt been paid in six months , or that cabage is a main food supplment, or they're equipment is shit, or they can't afford to train on it, ....why would they be angry, they still got Vodka, and Russian smokes.... Russian soldiers are as corupt as thier Government, they sell thier tank before they ever got to the front....

Thanks August, There is a couple of vid clips about the whole process, the one in french is an excellent version, it makes my chest swell in pride watching other Canadians showing our soldiers repect but also our thier respect to our nation....

Hey guy's just had a few minutes to spare, actually can't sleep still adjusting to the time change....They been keeping us pretty busy here last things like zeroing wpns that sort of thing....still pretty hot, well compared to back home it's hot....food is the same fried everything on the menu, should'nt complain, in a couple days it will be IMP's , meal in a bag, yummy.... Just wanted to say thanks for all the kind words, i means alot to not only me but to everyone here...PS eyeball i knew you liked me, admit it , it's the uniform ain't it .....your kind of growing on me to... Anyways just waiting to replace the old gaurd here, and doing some ride alongs until my entire crew is on the ground...i look forward to remaining on the board when every i can, My laptop gets more miles on it than i do , as i pass it off to whom ever is going to the main camp to down load.....with that in mind sometimes it takes a few days for me to respond....

The defination for Terrorist is outlined in detailed on the UN web site, and the Government of Canada's web site, both are almost the same... Not all our enemies in Afgan are terrorists, but you knew that, there are war lords , merc's, drug lords, and the list is long.... We don't decide what is right or wrong for any Afgan, we are there to up hold Afgan law, and to assist them with rebuilding and security....They make the rules and we enforce them.... As for seeing it in the facts, first we need to read the facts, then we can debate them.... That has been a big issue for me when posting to you, yes i'm trying to change your doubts, but you've yet to produce any facts or numbers . In Canada murder is not supported by the general population, our law enforcement depts far outnumber any criminal gang or outfit by huge numbers, and yet we still have it why is that.....it is the same for the Afgan government your opinion is that they outnumber the bad guys , they are not support by the general population and you can not fathom how the Taliban pose a problem....how do the Hells angels pose a problem here in Canada.... Is it rational to say we will turn our heads while a few thousand terrorize millions, killing them at thier leasure....because we don't want to change thier way of life.... We lock up murders and rapists because we want to change thier way of life every day....we lock them, take away some of thier freedoms because we have said we do not tolerate this behavior... Now the Afgan government has said the same thing, only they can not do it themselfs and have asked for assistance.... This ....we have no right to change the taliban is bullshit....and by giving the Taliban rights as you have suggested we take away the rights of the majority of Afgans....by turning our heads and ignoring the problem sends a clear signal to the taliban , we condone thier actions, and will do nothing to interfer with way of life..... Sorry i can not sit back here with my head in the sand and do nothing....Our Country has done the right thing here stood up and said we will not tolerate the taliban way of life....we will aid the Afgan government in improving the quility of life of thier citizens.... I have really enjoyed our debates Myata, and all the members of this board. I know deep down that i will not change your opinions, but will continue to try, the Army has changed thier plans for me and i'll be leaving for Afganistan this Sunday, so i won't be able to post for a while....i have secured a new laptop and will try to post from afgan when time permits....once again thank you all, for putting up with an old Army guy....

The minimum time requirement for the CF is 1 year between any out of country tour, there are exceptions , which requires a waiver....But i have seen plenty of guys with 6 months on the ground with thier families and then back on tour.... As far as tripling our efforts in Afgan with longer tours....no, can't be done, might be able to double it and have a full brigade, but the burn out time will be to much....one brigade in operations, One brigade in training ,one just coming home....although we could do that for a year, sustaining it would not be pretty...

Is it, i think it clearly demonstrates that the Taliban are indeed terrorists, terrorist of the worst type, and should be stopped. It was you that stated "assuming they are terrorist or just fighting for cultural or religious ideals....i wanted to make it clear that they are not...they are bent on forcing there ideals on the masses , and the masses don't want anything to do with them.... The whole Afganistan issue is full of graphic and emotional pictures that one must first see in order to get a clearer picture of what is going on in that country....understanding the true nature of our enemy. Still stuck on the forced reeducation deal i see...Here is an opinion that is shared by a few, but no one todate has given any proof, any sources, any links....you say it's true , and i believe you honsetly think it is happening, you just can't convince others because there is no proof....

Dancer your dating yourself....Hav'nt heard that since the early 90's

Now there is a polictically correct term for ex wifes....i got a few to, but there not as kind as yours.... Used to play panzer commander seris, Brigade level armoured warfare, WWII and modern armies....before that it was Mech brigade, another SSI computer game.... Yes but the beer was good, thats when we could have beer, when they treated us as adults.... Paintball, is a blast, until someone snaps one off to your bag, or knuckles....then you wished you brought your cup... Have you tried sim-anition, it's paintball, in the form of a real bullet, much more range, and it hurts like hell when it strikes....all designed to be fired from modified C-7,C-8, rifles and C-9 LMG's they also have 9mm for pistols as well.... leaves nasty little marks...but drives home the piont of duck and cover....

Hey i thought it was the klingons that invented it....

Stealth does not mean invisable, it means a much smaller radar signature, the signature will always be there...and can be tracked if you aware or looking for it.... The Serbs got extremily lucky, and the american pilot was most likely bored, or very relaxed....Until missle lock that is....with all the F117 sorties flown over serb territory they did only mange to shoot one down....The russians did mange to knock down a U-2 as well thought to fly well above missle range.... Once combat has begun, turning on a ground station radar, is very deadly for it's operators....just ask the Iraqis, and although Stealth by itself does give you a great advantage it is all the other systems that are deployed with it that give it it's full potential....AWAC's, once a ground station comes on line AWACs can vector friendly aircraft away from it....Then there is the wild weasel sqns dedicated to destroying ground stations and other air defense platforms....not counting Sat sweeps of the area etc etc the airforce are pretty good at getting aircraft in and out of a bombing run.... My piont is can't detect shit if the radar is not turn on, because in doing so brings down the rain.... All that being said the russians still have some of the best Air defense platforms in the world, an area the americans are lacking, but gaining ground....slowly, i think they put more effort into putting more tech into thier planes, than thier ground A/D platforms....Control the skys everything else will follow....

Here is a few more. Military slang

Yes it has, but alot of that has not been pretty, and a dark cloud hangs over alot of those accomplishments. Don't get me wrong i don't dislike Russians, just mother Russia and what she stands for....

Your right , and for that i appoligize, i guess we are all alittle tired of hearing how one side single handedly won this conflict or that conflict, when it was truely a effort of many countries and millions of individuals that deserve to recongized for thier efforts.

No it does not, however, we can't leave half way thru the job...and we don't leave when it gets a little tough ...We don't except that behavoir in our day to day lifes...Why should we now say it's OK for our nation to do that....