Army Guy

Don't get me wrong, the are still very powerful nations, just they do not come close to the power that NATO or the US can project...I guess i should have been more specfic, Yes both Russia and China does have limited abilities to project power, Russia used to have a massive ability to project power. which would include the ability to land marines in large numbers, or Aircraft carrier battle groups, massive amounts of Airbourne soldiers with aircraft to get them there....and large follow-up forces and the means to get them there....The US on the other hand can land several divsions of marines, Airbourne troops plus they have the navy to secure the waterways and the Aircraft carriers to protect the entire force, for as long as it takes....Russia and china lack that capibilty....and that was what i meant to project power any where in the world... So over all having a few Russian bombers in South America is not a large threat, and would be easily swept away by US defenses....but park serveral US naval aircraft carriers battle groups off the russian coast and see what kind of reaction you get....

Yes but to be a global superpower you must be able to project your military strength globally....Russia or China can not do that. Which is why they are not really taken seriously, there're threats are kind of hallow so to speak....I'd say they are listened to by NATO and the US , but not to the level they (russians, or china) are demanding...

And your entitled to your Opinions, my concern is cementing them with the wrong or false info. Thats been one of the biggest problems about this mission, the lack of clear direction and info regarding this mission.... from both our Government, and the media. And is why i continue to post here. .But what you failed to do is explain WHY you feel we should pull out NOW. what "facts" have cemented your Opinion. The problem with the Majority of Canadians is they can't explain "why" they want out, they just want out....And they don't care about "why" we should stay and assist...just that it is thier opinion and it must be right.... But me as a soldier, who is now on his third tour, has to much blood sweat and tears invested to just take your opinion as gosple, or the right thing to do...Convince me is what i'm trying to say...or atleast listen to my side of the story... Norman: Norman you know more about Canadian politics than i do, does it disappiont you to here that from the Cons, during an election run....How many times have "they" meaning any political party made promises only to have them changed after the election....One thing about the Canadian people is they have short memories, and are very forgiving....how many scandals did the liberals have, and continued to serve.... My guess is that decision will be changed before the pull out deadline, whomever is in power will have come up with a whole new idea to sell it to the people, and come the next election, it will all be a distant memory.... As one of Canada's better generals, i think his record speaks for itself.

Would it surprise you, that any poliction broke thier promise. There is alot riding on this Operation , not only for Canada, but NATO, and the entire alliance. enough that yes i would forecast any of the parties once elected would extend the mission....

This is your quote is it not ? Since your currently on the soap box and making a bold statement as you did please explain, why NATO's reasons are false... The offical reason's are posted on various government web sites, which i could provide you a link if you like. But then again you are already well aware of the reasons, i mean one would have to be in order to debate the subject...at least i hope so anyways. Again you are not certain of that, your guessing...lots of infra struture that the soviets built is still being used today...I don't think alot planners have that in mind when major construction projects get under way, piss on that they'll only destroy it when we leave....we can't re build a nation with that in mind, we must be postive and look towards a better future for Afgan if we are going to suceed. You've said your self Afgan is not a western democracy, and nor was it meant to be, it's a Afganistan democracy, with all the good, bad and ugly...and it will change over time, with us there or with out us. Piont here is NATO is not forcing the current Afgan government into anything, nor does it set policies, it advises and steps back and lets the Afgan government take it's own course of action....Unless you can prove other wise then your whole statement is "OPINION" and everyone has one of those.... Yes they are, but NATO is not an invading force, and was asked by the freely elected government of Afgan to stay and assist with building a new nation....those freedoms and rights they now have were brought to the people by that very government....Not NATO, or anyone else... But i'm sure you can prove other wise...or is this your OPINION again. Here's where i get confused, the senseless loss of lives on our side is being paid by our soldiers, diplomates and a few aid workers, and they do this because they believe in this cause, and it's the right thing to do.... Lives on the other side, are for the most part being paid by the Taliban and thier merry band of followers, they are dying so they can force the majority into thier way of thinking and life....( your familar with thier ideals are you not) The only sad part about this whole operation is the Afgan people that are caught in the middle, and while we would all agree it is a terriable plight, and something needs to be done, the Majority of Canadians perfer to do nothing....but sit and watch as these people go on suffering. The evidence is out there all you have to do is research it, OB and his merry band of terrorist omitted to carrying it out, the Taliban back them up, and offer them sanctuary....but please do explain how you have come to the conclusion that nothing is true and NATO, including our nation has commited any crimes. I just wanted to end with this most people firmly believe we are pulling out in 2011, It is my OPINION that we will be here much longer than that regardless of who becomes PM....

Yes what a sham, for centuries Man has attempted to fly, go to the moon, walk on water, time after time year after year it was proven that man was not meant to do none of the above...and yet today were flying in huge double decker planes, walked on the moon, and have walked on water...History has shown us alot of things but is no means the end all to be all in what things can be accomplished by man if he sets his mind to it. Enlighten us PC, what cause is false... Yes there is alot of pain in Afganistan, but things have changed since mother Russia's sudden departure....The country now has major Hyways, major Dams, and a long list of other improvements...and even a form of Democracy, all given to them not by force, but rather open arms, perhaps you can give me one source, proving NATO is forcing Democracy or for that matter anything down the throats of the majority.... As for the kids handling wpns professionally got to love mother russia for giving them that oportunity, heck they even provided the arms to do it but this is not about providing a people with a chance at some of the rights and freedoms and things we take for granted everyday. This is about "bringing our troops home right now" because PC and others think it is wrong, or can't be done.... So while we all are sitting down here talking about this lets just ask ourselfs what is it costing us, i mean every Canadian tax payer, a quick est would say about 20 dollars out of your entire tax bill....Ya to some it's alot of money but come on it's not even a case of beer....for what a chance at giving some nation of millions a decent chance of peace.....other than that what else does it cost the avg tax payer....nothing, our soldiers are picking up the heavy end, and glad to do it as well, there is no bitching or moaning or shouts for debates....Tell ya what send me your name and address and i'll send you your 20 bucks. if it would mean carrying on with something more important it would be worth it....

The military spends alot of time and money training and equiping it's soldiers and chain of command for just this type of situation..train for the worse case situation, and you'll be prepared for everything inbetween. Case in piont you may remember during operation Mudusa, Afgan, one of the rifle companys of the RCR was mistakenly attacked serveral times by an American A-10, the company was still in the field, with a heavy Taliban presence... The company was reduced to combat ineffectiveness in the matter of minutes, meaning they had suffered more than 55 % cas....and although it was extremily cautic they manged to treat and evac well over 1/2 thier combat numbers and keep large numbers of Taliban from taking advantage of the situation...One can not do that if your training is not there or your not prepared... Just a side note, this company was quickly reorged, and put back into the fight, which has to speak volumes to the soldiers that accomplished this feat...but then again our history is full of these type of feats.... As for Georgia being a NATO army, is a very unfair comparison, one does not spend hundards of years under Russian rule and doctrine and then in a few short years mange to convert to a western army....it will always have a Russian flavour to it, for many years to come... As for the statement NATO won't fight, it is fighting, tking on more and more roles as the UN becomes ineffective, or powerless, are they roles that NATO should be involved with, absolutly not, but that is where we are today. Howl from a distance, better to howl than to commit thousands of troops in conflicts we may not walk away from, be careful of what you wish for....As for scaring anybody, large parts of NATO sure scared the crap out of Sadam, not once but twice......Even Russia knows the strength of NATO,

My son knows more about tanks, and armour than this guy, give me a break, i thought you where making a case for russian tanks and hardware, not comparing 2 western tanks which work side by side on most battle fields again'st soviet designs... There are many ways to discribe tank kills, and during the first and second Gulf war, The Iraqi's did not mange to get one tank kill, yes they did mange to get some mobility kills, describe as immobilzing a tank, however the crew is still very much alive and able to still fight from thier postion....big difference....And yes there was many accounts of M-1's having Iraqi Sabot rounds stuck in the front mantels failing to penatrate anything vital...Russia was very quick to let the world know these were very old and discontinued rounds much to the Iraqis displeasure.... And while the Russians have improved thier Sabot rounds performance "even release tech data sheets to prove that thier rounds can penatrate the front armour of a abrams....they have yet to prove it, or sell them abroad to anyone important...mean while the US and german, Israel governments have surpassed the russain claims and proved thier claims on on russian tank examples, often left around the world by fleeing russians or taken in combat by western forces.... Plant enough explosives in a hole and you can kill anything, what is the piont ...you can kill an abrams, yes we know that , but you must admit russian tank crews where very concerned when a Silver bullet fired from a M-1 penetrated the front hull of a T-72 vaporized the crew, , contined out the back along with the entire engine assy, and was found some 50 feet behind the T -72....That look on Russian tank commanders faces would have been priceless.... Now we know the T-72 is not the top dog in the Soviet military, not even in the top 5, mostly considered an export version....but lets face it, the Russians never did figure out Chobham armour or develope any simlar tech break through... yes they may have added more armour to the front of thier future tanks , but that silver bullet did pentrate the entire length of the T-72 how much better is the T-90, or the T -95...which have not been built in any great numbers.... But armour is not what makes a soviet tank great, is it, so send up the white flag, western tanks are bettered armoured always will be....as we don't have the man power the russians have , we give our crews the means to survive.... Now Russia did design a tank gun that fires a missle with a range of excess of 6 km's....which does offset some advantages in certain types of terrain....I'd persue that angle if i was you.... How many SU-37's are operational, compared to say F-22, and F-15's, Give me a break, more angry because they hav'nt been paid in six months , or that cabage is a main food supplment, or they're equipment is shit, or they can't afford to train on it, ....why would they be angry, they still got Vodka, and Russian smokes.... Russian soldiers are as corupt as thier Government, they sell thier tank before they ever got to the front....

Thanks August, There is a couple of vid clips about the whole process, the one in french is an excellent version, it makes my chest swell in pride watching other Canadians showing our soldiers repect but also our thier respect to our nation....

Hey guy's just had a few minutes to spare, actually can't sleep still adjusting to the time change....They been keeping us pretty busy here last things like zeroing wpns that sort of thing....still pretty hot, well compared to back home it's hot....food is the same fried everything on the menu, should'nt complain, in a couple days it will be IMP's , meal in a bag, yummy.... Just wanted to say thanks for all the kind words, i means alot to not only me but to everyone here...PS eyeball i knew you liked me, admit it , it's the uniform ain't it .....your kind of growing on me to... Anyways just waiting to replace the old gaurd here, and doing some ride alongs until my entire crew is on the ground...i look forward to remaining on the board when every i can, My laptop gets more miles on it than i do , as i pass it off to whom ever is going to the main camp to down load.....with that in mind sometimes it takes a few days for me to respond....

The defination for Terrorist is outlined in detailed on the UN web site, and the Government of Canada's web site, both are almost the same... Not all our enemies in Afgan are terrorists, but you knew that, there are war lords , merc's, drug lords, and the list is long.... We don't decide what is right or wrong for any Afgan, we are there to up hold Afgan law, and to assist them with rebuilding and security....They make the rules and we enforce them.... As for seeing it in the facts, first we need to read the facts, then we can debate them.... That has been a big issue for me when posting to you, yes i'm trying to change your doubts, but you've yet to produce any facts or numbers . In Canada murder is not supported by the general population, our law enforcement depts far outnumber any criminal gang or outfit by huge numbers, and yet we still have it why is that.....it is the same for the Afgan government your opinion is that they outnumber the bad guys , they are not support by the general population and you can not fathom how the Taliban pose a problem....how do the Hells angels pose a problem here in Canada.... Is it rational to say we will turn our heads while a few thousand terrorize millions, killing them at thier leasure....because we don't want to change thier way of life.... We lock up murders and rapists because we want to change thier way of life every day....we lock them, take away some of thier freedoms because we have said we do not tolerate this behavior... Now the Afgan government has said the same thing, only they can not do it themselfs and have asked for assistance.... This ....we have no right to change the taliban is bullshit....and by giving the Taliban rights as you have suggested we take away the rights of the majority of Afgans....by turning our heads and ignoring the problem sends a clear signal to the taliban , we condone thier actions, and will do nothing to interfer with way of life..... Sorry i can not sit back here with my head in the sand and do nothing....Our Country has done the right thing here stood up and said we will not tolerate the taliban way of life....we will aid the Afgan government in improving the quility of life of thier citizens.... I have really enjoyed our debates Myata, and all the members of this board. I know deep down that i will not change your opinions, but will continue to try, the Army has changed thier plans for me and i'll be leaving for Afganistan this Sunday, so i won't be able to post for a while....i have secured a new laptop and will try to post from afgan when time permits....once again thank you all, for putting up with an old Army guy....

The minimum time requirement for the CF is 1 year between any out of country tour, there are exceptions , which requires a waiver....But i have seen plenty of guys with 6 months on the ground with thier families and then back on tour.... As far as tripling our efforts in Afgan with longer tours....no, can't be done, might be able to double it and have a full brigade, but the burn out time will be to much....one brigade in operations, One brigade in training ,one just coming home....although we could do that for a year, sustaining it would not be pretty...

Is it, i think it clearly demonstrates that the Taliban are indeed terrorists, terrorist of the worst type, and should be stopped. It was you that stated "assuming they are terrorist or just fighting for cultural or religious ideals....i wanted to make it clear that they are not...they are bent on forcing there ideals on the masses , and the masses don't want anything to do with them.... The whole Afganistan issue is full of graphic and emotional pictures that one must first see in order to get a clearer picture of what is going on in that country....understanding the true nature of our enemy. Still stuck on the forced reeducation deal i see...Here is an opinion that is shared by a few, but no one todate has given any proof, any sources, any links....you say it's true , and i believe you honsetly think it is happening, you just can't convince others because there is no proof....

Dancer your dating yourself....Hav'nt heard that since the early 90's

Now there is a polictically correct term for ex wifes....i got a few to, but there not as kind as yours.... Used to play panzer commander seris, Brigade level armoured warfare, WWII and modern armies....before that it was Mech brigade, another SSI computer game.... Yes but the beer was good, thats when we could have beer, when they treated us as adults.... Paintball, is a blast, until someone snaps one off to your bag, or knuckles....then you wished you brought your cup... Have you tried sim-anition, it's paintball, in the form of a real bullet, much more range, and it hurts like hell when it strikes....all designed to be fired from modified C-7,C-8, rifles and C-9 LMG's they also have 9mm for pistols as well.... leaves nasty little marks...but drives home the piont of duck and cover....

Hey i thought it was the klingons that invented it....

Stealth does not mean invisable, it means a much smaller radar signature, the signature will always be there...and can be tracked if you aware or looking for it.... The Serbs got extremily lucky, and the american pilot was most likely bored, or very relaxed....Until missle lock that is....with all the F117 sorties flown over serb territory they did only mange to shoot one down....The russians did mange to knock down a U-2 as well thought to fly well above missle range.... Once combat has begun, turning on a ground station radar, is very deadly for it's operators....just ask the Iraqis, and although Stealth by itself does give you a great advantage it is all the other systems that are deployed with it that give it it's full potential....AWAC's, once a ground station comes on line AWACs can vector friendly aircraft away from it....Then there is the wild weasel sqns dedicated to destroying ground stations and other air defense platforms....not counting Sat sweeps of the area etc etc the airforce are pretty good at getting aircraft in and out of a bombing run.... My piont is can't detect shit if the radar is not turn on, because in doing so brings down the rain.... All that being said the russians still have some of the best Air defense platforms in the world, an area the americans are lacking, but gaining ground....slowly, i think they put more effort into putting more tech into thier planes, than thier ground A/D platforms....Control the skys everything else will follow....

Here is a few more. Military slang

Yes it has, but alot of that has not been pretty, and a dark cloud hangs over alot of those accomplishments. Don't get me wrong i don't dislike Russians, just mother Russia and what she stands for....

Your right , and for that i appoligize, i guess we are all alittle tired of hearing how one side single handedly won this conflict or that conflict, when it was truely a effort of many countries and millions of individuals that deserve to recongized for thier efforts.

No it does not, however, we can't leave half way thru the job...and we don't leave when it gets a little tough ...We don't except that behavoir in our day to day lifes...Why should we now say it's OK for our nation to do that....

The Taliban , who are they, it would be a conservative est that only 60 % of those active in taliban are Afgans, the remaining 40% are muslims from across the muslim world, yes you'll find a few Canadians, Americans, Europeons,but mostly pakistanis making up this gang of criminals... And yes they are evil alien beasts who want to control the masses thru fear and terror, they would not be happy with just doing it to themselfs they want control ,control over the entire country, the want the freedom to control others thru fear and force...nothing more.... Just look at thier tactics, and how they apply them, Stripping a man of all his skin with a dull knife takes hours, and hours to accomplish....it's sole goal was for the village to hear this man beg for them to stop, then beg them to end his life...instead they left him in the morning sun to bake and die a slow death....this is not an isolated incident, and has been done before....what drives a man or a group of men to do things this unimaginable his customs and traditions...show me one Muslim custom and tradition such as this....is he fighting for what he believes to be right....how does this act accomplish any of that....Asumming we can prove they are terrorists....give me a break...if it smells and tastes and feels like shit, it is shit.... He's doing it because he likes it, he wants control, over everything including life it self.... Do we have a right to answer a plea for help, a plea to help stop this kind of behavior....i say YES....Yes we do, A G-8 nation with all the responsiabilities YES, a Nation with so much to offer again a Yes....a chance to make a difference in the lives of millions.... So instead of asking do we have a moral right to help....We should be asking ourselfs do we have a right to watch this happen and do nothing, only to peer thru the glass every night on the news as thousands pay with thier lifes....so a few thousand can keep thier twisted sense of reality ....And while some will say yes , we should not interfer....Our government has stood up and said "we will help" we can not sit on our asses and watch....And while our government has not conducted a perfect mission, it is the majority that is pouting about this and that hampering the mission, in the end it is the afgan people who suffer...

I've got that a few times in the past, Army guys are not suppose to be capable of thinking outside the "killing realm"....But it normally comes from peace niks, whom think they have all the answers, but truly don't and are struggling with life as the rest of us do. And this is thier small way of contributing to society. your not one of them are you ? 300 years is a long time to have your forces stretched thin, maybe they just were having to much fun in Russia....but saying that you saved europe from invasion is a bit of a stretch ....perhaps you can say the same thing about america, Russia stretch the Nazi's so thin it prevented them from directly attacking the US... Very familar with the term, however you did state they both defeated the ottoman empire, but i'm pretty sure that thier actual final defeat was well after those dates you gave me, in fact when the world was busy carving up the ottoman empire what did the Russia government get...or maybe it was just my history books...

Although the F-22 is a primary Air superiority fighter, they have been using them as a multi role or ground support aircraft in Iraq with great sucess. The US is also thinking about letting Japan purchase 60 Aircraft, and has already thought about selling Israel 60, and Australia so they are or could be available for export. Canada has already dumped in the required start-up or buy in funding for the F-35, and it is a great aircraft , my piont is however one of the prime reasons we went for the aircraft was price, not because it was a better aircraft, but the old all mighty dollar...seems to be a recuring theme... Canada has intentions of purchasing 60 of these aircraft to replace the job that 138 CF-18 were assigned, current numbers report that there 121 left, with only 80 upgraded, the remaining aircraft are in long term storage....with 2 Sqns of 24 aircraft operational , the remaining 32 are in depot level maintance, or training and Testing aircraft at AETE.... My other piont is the F-22 is worth considering, if our order for our 60 F-35's was changed for 60 F-35 Jump jet capable aircraft, which would give our airboys the ability to operate much closer to the battlefield and not on airfields(they'll be thrilled im sure)translates to more ordance on target for the ground guys which is a good thing. And it will ensure that we are inter operable with our US counter parts... Ground support aircraft are good, but Canadian soldiers have good cause to not place to much trust in them, experiance has shown us that they travel way to fast, to indentify ground targets acurately...our answer would be an attack helo, something like the AH-64D, it's slow, and can act as an airbourne arty platform, that can take it's time and properly identify it's target (friend or foe)

Here is two statements that contradict each other "we don't need enormous military investment" and up grading our military to allow for indenpendant action....You have of course seen the reports on what it will cost our nation, to upgrade and replace our existing military forces...no one is talking about expansion of our 56,000 pers, just up grading and replacing our existing equipment and infra struture to the piont we are at today....that being able to support independant action of 2500 soldiers on the ground and approx 600 sailors and airmen...that cost is well over 100 bil , the look on the tax payers face priceless.... Given our governments history on purchasing new equipment the F-22 is worth considering, (and certainly not at the 250 mil price per aircraft) it is expensive, fly away costs is est at 97 mil per unit, of course that does not include spares, training, wpns pkgs, etc....even with all that added up the Israelis almost had an agreement to purchase 60 with all the bells and whistles including spares , training, wpns pkgs for 200 mil a piece.. And while the price tag may shock you, lets consider a few things first, Our military forces "must" be able to inter operate with American forces as our foreign policies are linked, not totally but they are linked...The defense of North America is a joint effort, and if our forces are not inter operable then it would be counter productive to our defense would it not.... We must show the US that we are atleast somewhat serious about our own defense, if we want a say on how that defense is to be run, put under US rule until the crises is over is exactly the direction we are in now, and will remain until we take our defense seriously....and if that is the case becoming the 51 st state is not all that unthinkable. We as a nation have always purchased the lowest bidder when talking about our military equipment....and yet we don't practice that in our personal and daily lives, but when it is our nations soldiers life on the line, sorry, you'll have to look in the "used" section....which is fine until your son or daugter signs up..... Purchasing military equipment should be about our nation giving our soldiers the edge over our enemies...not by shopping at thrift shops... Nobody was taking about going toe to toe with the Russians, but let me ask you this, had the Georgian thing gone south and Mr Bush decided to make a stand, do you really think our military would not be involved.....everyone would be drawn in....but we would be at a disadvantage would we not...considering we buy at the thrift market...yes many Canadians would pay the price because we love money.... Nobody is advocating a massive Army, a Massive build -up, for our made in Canada ambition of world dominance but atleast one that can support 6 to 9000 soldiers on the battle field at one time.... A goal that even most 3 rd world countries have achieved, one that is well within our grasp....