Army Guy

Sorry but i need to ask Are you F*cking kidding me....I wonder if the police asked her parents the same question....lets not put the blame on the sick bastard that raped her or the system that stoned her to death....But rather ask if she was dressed properly.... Yes another lets stick our heads in the sand, remark....How about we as a nation that seems to have all these grandeur ideas about peacekeeping and our roll in the world for once stand up, grab our balls and tell these countries "this type of behavoir is unexceptable" turn off the aid, turn off everything, return our diplomatic staff.

Actually it is a right, granted under section 15 of the charter of rights and freedoms. wiki Gay rights. And while your opinion may be shared by most of us here on the board , it is just that an opinion. Same for the Alcoholics , we have no laws preventing anyone from being one, it may be socially unacceptable but not again'st the law...there are laws preventing them from drinking in public places, or driving, etc....but hey if you want to drink yourself inot bliss every night in your own home it is legal in Canada....

Which would proably pose a problem if he was going to be charged in an international court...But that is not what you want, your goal is to have him brought back to Canada, where it has been pionted out with a link that Canada does have a clear, defination of a terrorist and terrorist activities....And thier is evidance that clearly proves that, even after you throw out all the evidance gather in gitmo, ....Thier is the matter of the tape found at the scene of the attack in which he was wounded... So what are we giving him a settlement for exactly....His stay in gitmo, his alleged torture, mistreatment, the loss of his youth....what exactly are we rewarding this young man for... Topaz: Those prisoners you make reference to are normally turned over to Afgan authorities, and dealt by Afgan authorities ...Prisoners in Gitmo have been captured by US or other western forces, after alot of ground work and intel has been gather an arrest is made, it should be noted that these prisoners were special interest prisoners that may have had hard intel to the workings of thier groups or cells....Not because someone turned them in for some food....after a brief investagation, those prisoners are turned over to afgan police for processing, or released..... Or maybe you can provide a link for this story....

Do i think young Khadr should get his day in court, yes by all means, does it have to be a Canadian court no, in my opinon Canada's court and justice system have already screw the pouch on the other Khadr family members, most of which have direct ties to Terror activties, or groups, and we have as a nation done nothing, well i would not say nothing we've placed them on welfare, given some of them large sums of money for info, provided health care for others... So while i do believe he should have his day in court, i also believe he should answer for his crimes....and justice served. Why he would want to be tried in Canada is beyond me, Our government already has US assurance he will not be given the death sentence, but rather life in prison...while here in Canada he faces more charges than just a murder charge but we could also add into the mix a treason charge, as someone has already mentioned and placed a link to.... There may not be enough edvidance of him throwing a grenade, and killing a US army Medic ...although it is mentioned by CIA agents, in a interview, according to them he gave freely like he was bragging about it....but hey....he may of been tortured...so we will throw out that edvidence..... there is of course a tape of him engaged in planting IED's and bragging about it...on serveral occasions in afgan....so at the very least we could charge him on acts of terrorism.... I personal think he is better off under US control right now, or maybe he is counting on us to screw the justice system once more and place him back with mom and the rest of the terrorist family.... If justice is not served what message does that send the rest of these terrorist, what message does it send our nations soldiers fighting these very terrorist right now.... Canadian defination of Terrorist activities..... Canadian defination of terrorist This from a trail already held in Canada. Mohammad Momin Khawaja, a 29-year-old Ottawa-area software developer arrested almost five years ago, was convicted October 29 on five charges of participating in a "terrorist group" Canadian law xxx

Actually it is going to be controversal, as i said before there is going to be a major learning curve, with you and me and everyone. Part of that learning curve is for civilians to learn something about combat and a theater of operations. And how Law as we know it it in Canada can not directly translate into law in a combat theater... Such as the defense is missing a key peice of evidence, the body, no proof that it was the Capt's 9 MM that killed the man, no bullet was recovered...No one was in postion to directly see the Capt shoot the man, no one can even confirm that the Capts bullets even struck the man in question...All we have is the statement by a few observers that said the Capt walked over to the insurgent, pulled out his pistol and fired 2 shots... I don't think it is open and shut.... Your right there is laws again'st such acts, be it Canadian law, and the conventions. I get your piont Soldiers do not make up the law and conventions, but that being said every soldier that pulls a trigger makes those very decisions everyday. Again this is where our laws at home and laws in combat become grey, and clouded. Let me explain, In Afgan a soldier may take a life if he considers his life or the lives of his comrads in danger, "someone digging a hole on a well traveled roadway is grounds to use deadly force". or a person openly carrying arms on a battlefield is grounds to use deadly force, we don't have to prove anything just take the shot...because those actions are to be consirdered carryied out by bad guys.... We do have standards and laws to govern how we kill it other, but the end result is death, none the less. If the Capt had while advancing to contact shot the Taliban serveral more times in the chest instead of the normal double tap, in fact using over kill to eliminate his enemy he would have been alright and his actions legal according to the laws and conventions.... But in this case we are standing tall, and pionting our fingers at the Capt, because legally he was not to show compassion, he was to leave his enemy on the ground in massive amounts of pain, to bled out of his wounds....and while mercy killings are not specifically mentioned in the laws or conventions to avoid confusion they have been part of warfare since the beginnings, history is full of examples....i know not a valid excuse but then again those in charge of these criminal proceedings probable have not stepped foot on the battlefield. A place that brings no glory, but rather death and destruction.....where every action there goes again'st our moral values and the way we where brought up.... Yes he was a severely wounded and unarmed man, one just seconds before he was engaged in a life and death struggle with the Capt and his men....and lost that struggle in a lawful engagement.....add to your statement " in huge amounts of pain", he was no victim he was there to accomplish the same deed as the Capt was.....to close with and destroy the enemy...He was forced with a short notice, and very major life decision, leave the enemy behind in extreme pain, or kill him putting him out of his pain...A decision i hope i don't have to make, but i'm not sure if i would have made a different one...in this case... Canada's military reputation will survive intact as it always has, warts and all, given it's deadly task, is a testament to it's soldiers....The good, bad and the ugly is all in our history....as this will be.

I think your right, there is going to be a major learning curve for both sides, one that may upset the basket "relations that our citizens have with thier military" and vice versa....i'm hoping we take it slow, and try an educate both sides, and make the right decision for both sides... I hope justice will be served, and polictical grand standing left aside, and this Capt is not made an example of to gain a few pionts....

Yes, the Capt has been charged, and will soon be in court to see if he remains in custody. Captain Semrau was charged with one count of second-degree murder, contrary to Section 130 of the National Defence Act, pursuant to Section 235(1) of the Criminal Code. Captain Semrau is accused of shooting, with intent to kill, an unarmed male person. DND site. A couple of takes in the media in ref to this case. some are interesting. Visit My Website Media

Nothing is truely hopeless if enough people take action, for instance i'm sure things where looking hopeless for those Russian soldiers in Staligrad, as well. And although they paid a horrific price they did make a difference and made change. Explain to me the difference of Standing behind a wall of Nuk missles and watch as the world rips itself, and sticking your head in the sand. Many of these nations with a Nuk arsenal are still involved in these many conflicts around the globe, having all those nuks have done nothing for them.... Afgan may be mucking around to you, but many of our soldiers myself included thinks that we are giving something that we take for granted in this nation, a chance at peace, a chance to rebuild a nation that has been razed to the ground by War, giving the future people of Afgan hope... Something that i think we could attach to our morals and values, somthing we as a nation could be proud of.... Hey i don't think that will sit to well with those that still believe in our Peace keping etho's. It is Canadian to want to help others, it is who we are, our history is full of examples. Terrorism is not a police matter, it involves many agencies in this nation, including the military, hence why we have a counter terror unit...

Large protions of the world are FUBAR'd . Check the UN web site there is over 60 conflicts going on as we speak....But far from hopeless... Sticking our heads in the sand is not going to solve anything either. and if we don't stand up together for your rights and freedoms or that of others , what message will that send the world , it's ok to start your own little war or insurgency to get what you want....not just around the globe but in our own backyard.... Such as that group responsable for bombing the pipe lines in BC....why not take it to the streets of Vanacouver, one does need automatic wpns to fight an insurgency just the will, and the lack of action by others.....

DND will notify the media whenever a Canadian is wounded or killed, no exceptions, no changes...DND will impose a media ban on info until next of kin have been notified... this ban means they cut all telephone, cell tranmissions, internet, "any form of comms until next of kin notification....that means to everyone, military, civilian, everyone... Enemy Body count figures are release once in awhile, the PAFFO will normally give those figures to the media, but try to discourage thier use...numbers that are release are est, but pretty close...A detailed number is recieved after the battlefield is secured, those numbers are for military reports to NATO, and our government , no other eyes are permitted....The whole body count issue was from leasons learned from Vietnam it did not work there so they did not make it an issue here... I want to note that this is only done on smaller battlefields, larger ones like OP Mudusa enemy cas and kills were to numerous , the battle lasted serveral weeks and alot of enemy bodies where removed due to custom and religion so acurate counts could not be made.... There is nothing to be gained by giving false numbers, and when they are given there normally pretty accurate...

Would'nt it be nice if we all live in a perfect world, one with the ability to see evil, hate and war as it truely is and to forgive those that force it upon us. And to maintain that way of thinking after you see, smell, hear and taste the real effects of war. Soldiers are not robots we can plug our morals and values into and expect them not to be effected by war...no soldiers are human prone to the same mistakes and qualities as it citizens who have charged them with these duties.....to expect more is a pipe dream... What makes this act is disturbing to you ? the fact that he was unarmed, wounded not able to defend himself...or the fact that he may of shown some compasion to his enemy and shot him, putting him out of his pain and misery.... So you did read my post addressed to you, just did not have the balls to answer me directly...instead you are intent to skirt the issue with me, and instead take your anger out on others. Very cowardly of you....a person with such a strong conviction and beliefs and is still not able to put into words or debate the WHY, How,. but rather make statements that are false, wrong, and insulting. So yes Words can cut like a knife, your words and mine.

Alot of things have changed in the Military in the last 10 or so years, our military has tried to be as up front about it's happenings as it can. Within reason. although i would not say transparent but it is working towards that goal.... Anything apprpraite is anything that is released on public domain, or media already....if it will "not" put someones life in danger. Anything to senstive, would be deemed anything to do with intel, for example how it is gather, by what people, equipment, and it's use, beleive it or not we do use so equipment i once thought only available to James bond....we don't want to tip our hand on what people , equipment, we have or how we use it...allowing them to create counter measures for all of it....chances are if you seen it on tv ( within reason) then it's already been in service for some time.... Anything to with our tactics, once again if they know how we react they can put into place counter measures inflicting more casualities. Anything about composition of units, sub units, patrols etc etc....ie numbers of pers, types of wpns, abilities of troops, are they green or seasoned... it all gives the advantage to the enemy. Equipment capabilities, sure they release general info on all our equipment, but anything to with the more tech side of the house is a no no... Communications equipment and abilities....this subject is very restricted, general info is available to the public but it's actual specs and capabilities are not ...for example it is one of the things that are recovered from any disabled veh or destroyed veh regardless if the comms equip is intact or not.... Body counts, are a no no...although they are kept they are not released.... In short if it places any soldiers lives in danger it's a no no , If it gives our enemy an advantage it's a no no...Most of our enemies including the Taliban have spent big dollars on thier intel gathering abilites, and they are pretty good at collecting it. We all have secrets, or info we do not want our neibours knowing, state secrets are the same....

Which is another reason that a public vote will not work. most of the people are feed and believe in info release from our government and the media, and if they want war, then they shall find a way to have it...."I don't see that as a big problem in Canada" as that is not who we are as a nation....Todays conflicts are moving towards insurgency type warfare, and it looks nothing like yesteryears peacekeeping days, those are gone forever i think.... That being said todays miitary has moved into a 3 block war, providing medical assistance,aid, food, at one block, rebuilding another block, and providing security or fighting on another all at the same time. So you were not as duped as you thought...one of the main reasons we don't here so much about it is that it does not sell papers, people like death and destruction...not about some Dam, major hyway, power plant, school, fire hall being built, and certainly not about foreign political ongoings. I think education is the key, but even that will be limited, thier are alot of things that our government just can not release to the public be it for National security etc...and for the public to make an informed decision of this magnitude "going to war or Not" they may need it... Our current system may not be perfect, but it still serves us...

Madmax: Nice curveball, i did'nt see that one coming. your right one can not defend again'st that, it was wrong regardless of which party is in government.

I disagree, i think to get the results you are seeking one would have to wait well after the Iraq question was solved and under way...the reason i say that is most Canadians were in favour of going into Afgan, and felt that way only because they had flatly denied to have anything to do with Iraq, Afgan was thier ticket to save face....in front of our allieds. So the direct voting system seems to have some a few flaws, if this is the case....Next question would be how to encourage Canadians to use the system to start with. I say that because we have difficulties getting them to the polling stations, alot of Canadians don't really know the issues, nor do they care about the issues....So now your faced with the education process as well....how to get them interested and educated ?

Your right they are not, whichs raises one question why did these Canadain companies miss the boat.... Quote from the art.... "After identifying the need, Public Works follows a competitive procurement process." But the public works department referred the question to Industry Canada and, in the end, there appeared to be no answer I find it difficult to believe all the hoopla, any government contract goes thru PWSG which puts it on the mercs sys for all Companys across Canada and the globe to see.....and none applied, now they "the CAW workers" are yelling and screaming saying they could do the job...someone at those plants was sleeping at the switch..... I don't think it's DND or our government that is at fault here....everyone had a chance in fact more than 3 months chance while it was on the mercs sys....not just this one company but every company across Canada.... star

Oleg this is not the first time you've posted this, what ever you want to call it... . I took offense to it the first time and i still find it very offensive. Not because you call into question Why our nation is in Afgan, but rather you find it impossiable to believe that our soldiers have very different morals and values than yours. And have willingly stood up for them by volunteering for this mission and what it stands for. You can not wrap your mind around the fact that these beliefs are so strong they are willing to sacrifice everything including life itself.... For our Soldiers thier lives have not been wasted, but instead given to another nation struggling for small pieces of what we enjoy and take for granted everyday here in Canada. you know the little things like peace, humanity, education, basic rights....Our nation called upon them, and they answered with a mighty hooaah, they have taken this mission and made it thier own long before our own people turned thier backs on them....We see it as a way our nation "the land of plenty", can give back something, we see it as an honourable mission, we see it as a humanitarian mission, we see it as having everything Canada has stood up for and fought for in the past. NO SIR our lives are not wasted... Once again because they do not share your morals and values you climb upon your box and declare them stupid fools, your disgusted at the thought of a simple act of respect, such as lining of the highways and offering thier thanks and respect in the form of a salute, as you've decided to single them out in this post. But those simple acts, are cherished by those soldiers whom have been tasked with accompaning thier dead comrads home. to them it means everything, it's a show of support, of thanks, of respect...that they are not alone in this tragic event, that they will not be forgotten... To you it is nothing more than road kill, to us and the avg Afgan, we maintain a vital presence one that deters the scumbags like the taliban from returning and terrorizing them....traveling those roads day and night shows our enemies that we are determined not to allow them back into power that we regardless of our losses we will bring the fight to them, that we will not let the people of afgan down in thier fight for basic freedom... Realistically speaking the taliban might not reach downtown toronto, but thier ideals and way of life have already been to toronto, and across Canada, by it thru the internet or TV or other media . Radical islam and terrorist ideals are already in our country....but i guess until it knocks on your door oleg you'll refuse to see it... Perhaps you should have another look at all those pictures of the dead, take a look at thier names....this is not a white anglo christian fight....this is a Canadian fight, faught by Canadians of all races, colors and creeds, from across the globe....I'm not sure what your motive here is but once again you throw dirt in the faces of those that have given our country everything they had... I was'nt sure on how to respond to this, but you've not shown any respect in this post yet, why start now i guess. The Canadian military does not leave a man behind, men will risk thier lives to retrieve a body of a comrad. I know it must sound stupid for you...but these men have honored this unwritten code since the end of WWII and we live by it, a code that prepares us for death...knowing that my body will be returned to Canada, is comforting in a strange sort of way. The flying back of these bodies furthers this tradition, it allows a conor to find out the exact cause of death this info is used to see if it was preventable either by improving kit, or equipment...it also gives the nation, a chance to say it's final goodbyes, in thier own sort of way....it allows the nation to know who they are and what they did, and it gives the familys some closure knowing that thier son, husband, are now safe in Canada...

Madmax: I don't think having them built in Canada is the problem, the problem is finding a company within Canada or a foreign company with a plant in Canada that already has a platform within NATO service with over 2 MIL kms on that chasis. There is alot of reasons for this. This veh may to be used in Afgan or some other mission in the future, and it needs to be combat proven, it has to have the combat protection equipment already designed and in production, it needs to have already established massive spare parts inventory, and it must fit in with existing equipment already in our forces. To many times have we played politics with our military equipment, in order to have it built in someones riding, or creating jobs, or in some cases just so we can say it's built in Canada. And while all of that is great,.... The first and foremost option we should be looking at is it the best veh of chioce for our military, will it perform and protect our nations soldiers. Our military forces does not t recieve equipment very often, and the equipment we do recieve should be the best on the market as it will be in service for 20 plus years. Sometimes we just can not have our cake and eat it to.

When i first read your post i nearly fell out of my chair....Eyeball the anti war, anti militarist, peace be with you, star trekey type of guy... I doubt very much that any of the Taliban are made up of the Wulfs of Afgan, If wulf is who he says he is then he is a professional soldier. professional soldiers do not use children as sucide bombers, they don't skin a man alive to bake in the sun, they don't cut off little girls hands because she wanted to go to school. Terrorist do that, men and women with no value on human life, and will do what ever it takes to see thier goals accomplished.....And one of thier main goals is to enslave all of the Afgan people and enforce thier way of live upon them....

Maybe none of the Canadian firms could meet the requirements. Note requirement 3.1 a 3 REQUIREMENT 3.1 Key Mandatory requirements for the SMP vehicle include, but are not limited to, the following: a. The vehicle's Base Chassis must be in-service with a NATO military force and have accumulated a total of at least 2 million kilometres on the fleet in conditions that are representative of the MSVS Project SMP vehicle mission profile; b. The vehicle must be tactically air transportable by a C-130 [Hercules] Aircraft; c. The vehicle must have a [minimum] payload capacity of ... 4.5 tonnes (Cargo variant) and 8 tonnes (Crane and LHS variant); and d. The vehicle must be capable of having an armour protection system installed (add-on or cab replacement) that protects occupants while located in the cab of the vehicle. Note that when the APS is installed, the vehicle is not specifically required to be tactically transportable by C-130 aircraft; CASR

I think you knew i'd show, as your kind of posts are exactly why i stay on....your so anti Military it scares even you....As for taking an earily exit, not just yet, going to take more than a few Taliban to do that....until then i think i'll stay on, besides i'm really starting to like you...

No Problem, glad i could help. I'm not trying to make excuses for anyones behavior or posts, just trying to give the board some insight on our ground forces. I aslo want to add that this racist attitude is not condoned by the government or military at any level, nor is it taught on any formal training program, it's normally introduced by a few instructors prior to deployment, or while over in theater. And not everyone is subjected to it, troops with no contact with the enemy or our own ground troops may not even be exposed to it. But this is not the only place where a soldier can pick this attitude up. Seeing a comrad wounded or killed also changes how one looks at the enemy, attending one of the many Ramp cerimonies can do it as well. Seeing the devastion brought about by the enemy quickly forms your opinions on our enemies....War is a very different world, and it will consume you totally, change you, so much that those closest to you have no problems noticing it's effects....none of them are any good...unless you remain in combat. But returning back to a peaceful existance such as Canada and trying to fit back into everyday life in Canada is a strugle for everyone of our soldiers, and it takes along time to make that adjustment..Most do, few never do... All one has to do is look at the history channel and listen to the interviews of the vets, you'll still here the words JAPS, Nips, Krauts, Nazi bastards, SS animals...Like i said War consumes you, changes you, it's effects are burnt into your memories to further punish you in the many years to come....Vets from WWII still have no problem reliving the tragic events that happend some 60 years ago, like it all happened yesterday. To answer your Question do enemies stay enemies forever ? Ever soldier has a different experiance, so i can not answer for all soldiers but for me, it's going to be along while before i can forget, or forgive the Taliban or other terrorist groups running around here for what they have done, to thier own countrymen, and my comrads. I'm not as carefull about passing on my dislike for the Taliban as i would like to be, and have often refered to them as scumbags, dirtbags on this very forum. Hell Mr Hillier has said as much on National TV,does that make it right.... perhaps not, but that being said, i've seen thier crimes up close and personal and those few discriptive words don't come close to discribing those that are capable of carring out the carnage and evil i've seen... i'm not talking about events that are apart of war, like IED's, shootings, death etc....i'm talking about events that go above and beyond events that only a twisted mind could come up with... I do not talk about any of my combat experiences with my family, nor do i use degrading terms to discribe them " Taliban or terrorists" when they are around. taking the time to teach my son and daugters about right and wrong. however that is not the case when talking with my peers, and for some reason on this forum, which i can't explain why, as some kind of release i guess. But like i said before every soldier is different. I do understand why, and here in Canada, in these present times you should take umbrage. I hope you some what understand my and perhaps Mr wulfs postion as well.

Could it be that our current justice system is flawed, and would you say it gives most of the advantages to criminal rather than the victim "in Most cases". would that not drive law enforcement agencies to look for any loophole they can find good or bad....

I'm with cameron on this one, you could not have read the article, maybe scimmed the first paragraph and made up the rest..... And when your called on it you decide to start slamming people....Your not a liberal are you ? lol

In peace time, a military court is limited to which crimes it can proscute, for instance lets say in Canada a soldier commits murder, that soldier is arrested and held by the military, if the evidance is strong enough to warrent a trail, then in most cases that members is released from all his military duties, his paper work is then processed to release him from the military. which they are free to be tried as a civilian.... In special duty areas, or on operations the commanding officer does have the powers to try major federal crimes such as rape or murder, that member would then do time in a military instution, I'm not sure on the maximum sentence he is allow to serve in military prison, but it is not very long ...keeping in mind military prison and civilian prison are not the same, military prisoners don't have the same rights and privilages as do civilians prisoners do....after serving this sentence he would then be released from military prison and be once again tried as a cilvilian ...not for the same crimes i should add...allowing him to serve is federal time. this does not happen very often as it is in the military best interest to get this person off the payrolls and tried as a civilian. In times of war, military justice has greater roles and all crimes maybe tried but it gets a little foggy, as we have not really been at war for a long time, so i'd need to look it up.