Army Guy

And what about the congo, Dafur, or places like that.

We started to rotate in around jul, ( adv party) took over from the PPCLI in mid Aug....had a few weeks to adjust, and things went to hell, and OP mudusa was on it was our welcome to Afgan party....

Royal Canadian Regt....I think The Gagetown boys did there tour in 2007....

White doors: Good book, i got another for you, a buddy just sent me, It's about 2 RCR tour out of Gagetown NB.... Called Kanadar tour" the turning piont in Canada's Afgan mission" written by Lee Winsor,David Charters,Brent Wilson....

Yes we do but not all military budgets are created equal, Our budget is divided amoun'st many different things, the entire Afgan mission comes out of it, national planning and preparness dept is funded out of it, and many other things....which means when it comes down to dollar and cents spent on equip or pers the 25 th ranked country may actually get more out of the dollar.... Eyeball: Just a second ago you where willing to spend double that on a nuk wpns program that would not work.....

Like i said before, a nation that owns nuks, must show the world that it is willing to use them in there defense....Canada does not have that reputation, nor williness to use the worlds most deadly wpn created.....there are many other reasons for not owning a nuk, once used there is no going back, what ever conflict there is or was will be widen, there are very few nations on the planet that one could nuk and not effect dozens of other nations....so how do you explain to those countrys which now have thousands of thier citizens dying of radiation piosoning.... we had to it was our only means of defense....we where to cheap to buy conventional forces....as they press buttons of thier own....and now we have a foreign army on our shores and a few of our major cities lay in ash, and tens of millions dead.... It is not a matter of who can hit who first, Russia and many other nations have a vast array of launching systems, some that can be over our defenses in less than 15 mins after launch....our north is open territory, Russia spec forces have already explored our north, that is well documented.... Teams could take the over the ice route and knock out what ever defenses we have taking away your ability to strike with nuk wpns if based in the north ....then what....Canada's military today does not have the equipment to respond with force in our own artic....and with the cuts you propose to have a nuk wpns programs we will never have conventional ground forces needed to defend our nation, or aid it in time of crises.... Say like a major earth quake in victoria BC.....thousands would die before we could get help in to assist....and who would we have to blame....no one but our selfs....because of a few dollars....come on.... A nuk wpns program would cost our nation more than it could imigine....for a wpn we have no intention of using, as it would be the start of the end...so no one is going to press that button, i don't care who's at the gates....i'd rather spend the rest of my days doing the goose step, or in some siberian gulag than die a slow painful death from radiation piosoning.....

I've been asked this question many times, check those names that have paid the price or are serving this nation now, and you'll soon change your mind....there from around the globe.....

And that member was me ? or was i just the target ?

We as a G-8 nation, have responsabilities....not all Canadians are happy with someone else paying our defense bill, and then when we go out at night we cut them to pieces...it's time for Canada to grow up...and atleast pay our own way.....to do that we need to play with the big boys....or stop pretending we are big boys....

Stop right there, foreign policy is set by elected officals....and has been for years now....Canada does have foreign policies as does every country like them or not they are there.... Another myth we will raise an army when we need it...i live that shit everyday....today it takes months to produce a truck, tank, years to produce an aircraft, lets not talk about ships....so we should be ready well after the conflict is over....The next war is come as you are, if your not ready, then prepare to speak russian or whom ever the bad guy of the day is.... They have not used nuks, but does that change thier doctrine, no....but they have used chemical warfare across the globe... YA your right, to much training....to many deployments where we get to see first hand mother russias play book, but hey whom am i to tell you about the effects of a Thermal nuc blast and it's effects, if never seen one in person, but i have studied alot of data...and when i say that one does not have to smell shit to know it stinks....a NUK wpn is mans most potent , deadly wpn ever devised....and for a peace loving person it surprises me to find you advocating our ownership... Your right i don't trust Canadians to recognize when to gear up for anything....check your history tell me how many regular force army personal where on the pay role prior to WWI and WWII....then ask yourself this question, who is going to train all these civilians when we do decide to mobilize.....and if they are all training then who is holding the line....and if holding the line is priority then who is training guys like you....perhaps you'll be thrown on the line with no training sort of on the job training...like happened in WWI....good boys paid the price with there lives....but hey what the hell , a small pension payout, engrave a few names on a statue what does it cost the tax payer....let me ask you eyeball what is your life worth to you....So if it is your believes to keep us on a strict diet, and i'm handing out rifles to the new recruits/ replacements....i'll ask you, hows that diet working for you now ? on the line "pte" we're attacking next.... If you are not going to atleast have a miliarty capable of defending or securing or coming to the aid of Canadians, then people like you should have the balls to say...Army guy we don't need you any more, and send us all home....instead of leading us on , with i support you, i beleive in what you do, we'll get you some funding.......save us the agony of lossing good people in conflicts you don't even read about.... IS it.....How many out there would agree to the use of Nuk wpns, in or out of Canada....we can't even agree on military funding, let alone nuk wpns....and then your going to ask if we can use them...shit we get a knot in our shorts when we mishandle or rough up a few terrorists....imagine wiping out entire cities of millions.....in one push of the button....Anyone....nothing but crickets......anyone....

Actually i don't set the standards here, and although i am a long serving member here i do not enjoy any more privilges than you do....but up until now i've let your off colored remarks and personal attacks slide....until you went and complained about the abuse you've suffered from another member..kind of hypocritical if i do say after all the abuse you have flung around here lately....ASSMAN....

Sorry Charles but Mr, keng has either got a huge pair of brass nuts, or is metally challanged...claiming not to know the difference between attacks, or trolling.....calling them sarcastic remarks is a joke....insulting mine and your intelligence. I've taken his attacks with a grain of salt, but for him to address you complaining about a double standard is the last straw....

I've been on deployments with nothing more than a pick axe handle, so i guess a BB gun would be a step up....maybe next time we can skip the lecture, and i'll skip the need to beg for the tools to do the job, and we'll come to the conclusion that if you want to play with the big boys it's going to cost....and maybe.... just maybe Candian soldiers will not have to die in order for us to get the right equipment....

Building wpns in Canada is a wonderful idea, but lets look at it for a minute....We've already established that the R&D funds to design and build Canadian wpns is not feasable....which leaves only one option, purchasing the rights to build and building them in Canada, much like GM did with the LAV fleet...A swiss designed veh, made in Canada...heres the problem, if we need tanks or Close combat vehs who is going to retool here in Canada, who is going to pay for this retooling, and For the amount Canada needs for defense, how long can we stretch out the manufacturing process to make it viable.... Purchasing off the shelf allows us as a nation to for go most of the R&D costs, it allows us to purchase the best the world has to offer, at the time. We are having a haed time trying to swallow the 450 bil total cost over 20 years it will cost us just to maintain what we have now....As many others have said that cost would balloon 100 times if we went on our own....i'd like to meet the team that could sell that to the Canadian people. Purchasing the best the world has to offer is really the prime objective here, going on the cheap, has cause us problems in the past, Can anyone say Iltis, or LUVW, with it's tactical quite brakes that sound like a high pitch squeel that can be heard for miles....One would think that we could atleast give our fighting troops the edge on the battle field, considering it is only thier lives at stake.... It would be nice to equip our forces for peacekeeping, but most Canadian forget or have no clue what peacekeeping is, or how our Nations military is equiped to carry out that mission....we have been sooooo lucky in the past the Medak pocket rings in loud and clear, when troops armed with nothing more than a few M113's and a few anti tank wpns went face to face with heavy armour and somehow held them off....this could have turned out to be one of Canada's heavist losses in peacekeeping if they had pushed the fight to another level....Peacekeeping works when you have the biggest stick.....anything else and your just observing crimes as they take place.... The Canadian military does not want to become one of the largest military formations in the western world...but it does want to not only contribute to our national diaster plan, security of our nation, and enforcing our foreign policy....But it also wants to do all this and be able to bring back all it's soldiers alive and well....and for that to happen we need modern equipment....

Really, you should read up on Soviet military doctrine, the use of WMD are included right down to the tactical level, Sub units as small as divisions size have Tac nuks, and right down to brigade size for chemical shells and rockets...you don't distribute them that far down the food chain unless you plan to use them in the opening volleys.....Not much has changed in Russia today.... Russia not only believes in thier use but also they can win in a WMD enviroment, one of the few nations that trains regularly in a live WMD enviroment...which means they train with live chemical agents regularly, such as nerve, mustard, blood agents...there training losses are incrediable...you don't go through all that effort unless, you meant business... I think we all forget the destructive power of todays nuc wpns. an avg Russia city killer has the power to destroy almost everything within a 300 km radius, a wpn dropped in toronto would have devasting effects on Ottawa, every out to the 150 km raduis would be killed out right or within 3 to 7 days due to radiation poisoning....anything out to 200 to 300 km would or could live more than 14 to 21 days.... you start combining hits from major cities such as toronto , ottawa, detroit, and you have over lapping effects, which would kill faster, and effect more of the populations....My figures may be off by some, but you get the drift, nuc are the ulitmate destructive wpn known to man.... We live in a country that can not even buy helos' without some sort of scandal or major debate....how are we going to start a nuc wpns program.... Top this off is they are not an opition in a lot of cases, lets say droping on or near europe, or some Arab state would effect the entire region, readiating the country side for 1000's of km's in all directions.....pissing off more than just one attacking nation....but increasing the conflict by a thousand fold... Having them is one thing but for them to be a deterent the nation must show a will to use them....we don't have that...Someone mention Israel, who has had nucs for quit awhile now, and they have still been involved in serveral major conflicts....not much of a deterent there.... Nuc wpns program is much more expensive than purchasing a ground force, Just ask Iran or Syria....

After reading alot of post here , I'm not really sure your fully aware of the current state of our military...I won't talk about the Navy or airforce, because i know little of what is going on in those elements, but remember the Army is the rich cousin and if the army is bad, the other elements are worse.. Don't get me wrong we like most of the equipment we operate now, in fact some of it is top of the line, our Lav III is a world class veh, however, the Lav IV and LAV H are already in production putting our vehs 2 generations behind....Afgan is taking a toll on these vehs using them up at incrediable rates, wearing them out, or lost to battle damage....Units in Canada are lucky to have more than 1/3 there compliment....which means there are not alot to go around, not many for training, and because there is fewer... means they are in constant motion, so we are wearing out those ones quicker as well.... What does get purchased is equipment for use in Afgan, and a few samples to train on in Canada....which is good, but is becoming a problem as most of this equipment, is seen by the soldiers for the first time preparing for Roto to afgan, regular units in Canada rarely see the new stuff.... which means they are using some equipment that they are still becoming familar on, when it should be second nature to them.... What we need is for equipment purchases be made in qty's to outfit not just all reg force units in Canada, but also amounts for our res units as well, which means much bigger contracts....keep in mind that all this nice to have equipment is sitting in Afgan, not Canada..... Anyways i think you get the piont, our military is in sad shape, and while i applaud the cons for moving us forward, serious action needs to be taken, quickly, as our shape erodes daily and there will come a time when regardless of what you put into it, it will be nothing more than an empty shell....and we will be force to rebuild everything from the bottom up... we have just over 59,000 personal in the Army, Navy, and Airforce...Just to give you something to compare that to, The US marines have more women in uniform than we have military....An Avgerage NHL staduim could comfortably seat everyone charged with defending this nation.... keeping in mind that 1/3 of out fighting forces are in Afgan, either there or preparing to go....Anyways i'm done venting...time to get some rack time...

Having a wpn that you have no intention of using is well a waste of time and money and offers no deterent at all. A nation with nuk wpns must show, or prove that it has the will, the means, and the support of it's people to use such wpns.... Canada has none of those...if we can not convince them to buy a few tanks how would you convince them to purchase serveral nuks....Eyeball for someone who looks for an easy way out i don't think you've thought this one through.

It may of only taken a year to kick out some of the last ships in the yard, but the orginal ship took over 5 years to construct, so your info is alittle misleading.... Halifax class (FFGHM) IN SERVICE: 12 Name No Builders Laid down Launched Commissioned HALIFAX 330 Saint John SB Ltd, New Brunswick 19 Mar 1987 30 Apr 1988 29 June 1992 VANCOUVER 331 Saint John SB Ltd, New Brunswick 19 May 1988 8 July 1989 23 Aug 1993 VILLE DE QUÉBEC 332 Marine Industries Ltd, Sorel 17 Jan 1989 16 May 1991 14 July 1994 TORONTO 333 Saint John SB Ltd, New Brunswick 24 Apr 1989 18 Dec 1990 29 July 1993 REGINA 334 Marine Industries Ltd, Sorel 6 Oct 1989 25 Oct 1991 30 Sep 1994 CALGARY 335 Marine Industries Ltd, Sorel 15 June 1991 28 Aug 1992 12 May 1995 MONTREAL 336 Saint John SB Ltd, New Brunswick 8 Feb 1991 28 Feb 1992 21 July 1994 FREDERICTON 337 Saint John SB Ltd, New Brunswick 25 Apr 1992 13 Mar 1993 10 Sep 1994 WINNIPEG 338 Saint John SB Ltd, New Brunswick 19 Mar 1993 5 Dec 1993 23 June 1995 CHARLOTTETOWN 339 Saint John SB Ltd, New Brunswick 5 Dec 1993 10 July 1994 9 Sep 1995 ST JOHN'S 340 Saint John SB Ltd, New Brunswick 24 Aug 1994 12 Feb 1995 26 June 1996 OTTAWA 341 Saint John SB Ltd, New Brunswick 29 Apr 1995 22 Nov 1995 28 Sep 1996 Janes

DND's solution......what do you think, can we afford it, what is our next step. the way ahead.

Yes, thats what i do in my spare time hack into accounts, especially ones that have so much to offer this board....funny i did'nt get to your name yet....take this topic for instance have you contributed anything of any real value, other than make sly comments or personal attacks....

I don't know i kind of like the ASSMAN, he's either pulling something out of it, or someone is suggesting shoving something in it....Maybe we should have a vote....

Perhaps i'm a little slow, but how in the blue blazing hell, have you shown any respect for anyone with the comments you've made....I listed a few show me which ones actually prove what you just said....I don't blame the soldiers , but the politictions of the time....shit i can't even see the words politics of the time mentioned in any of them..... I'm sure that is not how they felt at the time, i'm sure thats not why so many signed up, keeping in mind it was mostly a volunteer force....how do make someone volunteer anyway.... No it would not, but you have not served in WWI, or for that fact in any war, so you sir have no right to judge those that have....you may dislike war, your free to stand up and yell until your blue in the face about war, but you do not have a right to judge me or others that have or are serving thier nation..... We have learned form thier suffering, but until man decides to put his energy into something else other than killing things someone has to stand on the line....ready to serve our nation, be it in defense or carrying out our foreign policy... Now they are real men, i thought you ref to them as men with questionable morals and intellectual character, i guess we are making progress and while i will not compare those conditions of WWI to those in Afgan. i will how ever say i have more in common with them than you, sitting at home behind your computer.... Nice try, been in theater here for a while, my laptop has been back to camp more times than i have....out of the 190 days i spend here 90% of that will be spent outside the wire....living out of the back of a lav while on the move , or in the endless POO dirt, that is as fine as baby powder.... and while i regular dream of a nice juicy burger, eating one now would mean spending days shitting in a bag....i will admit to drinking the occasional cold timmies.....other than that you have no idea of what a Canadian soldier goes through, lives through....nor do you actually give a shit....as for PTSD you should goggle it learn alittle about it before once again pulling things out your ass.... Here is a guy who is afraid to come out of his basement, and he is calling me weak....i guess your made of rock never cried or showed emotion during a funeral....it's not hard to see you have not been in combat, you have not had an experience that bonds you closer to others...of course not ...any ways the relationship between soldiers is one that is as strong as that of brothers, sisters...so yes thier is going to be tears, dating back well past WWI sorry to say, we are all weak.... It's not really soldiers that you dislike, you mentioned it a while back, it's todays soldiers, it's todays Canadians because they don't share the same morals and values as you do....the country is not heading in your direction....in fact it's not even on the same tracks....and your pissed....i happened to be the target.... This country will continue to change, it is a process that has been going on since time began, there is nothing you or anyone can do about it...except perhaps build a time traveling machine....maybe thats why you got that tinfoil hat on....

BC Chick: I find it very difficult to come to the same conclusion with his comments he has already made.... Here he clearly explains that the current military is populated with people of questionable moral and intellectual character, dating back to 1914, that covers alot of ground, and alot of our nations history....including both world wars, Korea, and current operations.... Another general comment of the military in general... Not a comment made when you support or respect the sacrafices made by our nations soldiers... And this comment rather say's it all, i feel the love, i feel the respect, and if it was angled at just myself i could live with that, But i've seen far to many good men and women die for thier current beliefs, to be smear by anyone.... And if i misread or misunderstood his comments in any way then i'm sorry, but i think his intent is pretty clear, what do you think.

Some more news regarding our military. Rented Helo's start working in Afgan. Rented helos. Canadian cyclone makes test flight. cyclone And new tracked APC maybe in the works Cv90 Some good news, for all of us.

while it is true that there are helo's there , they are not available for all types of missions....