Army Guy

I would say that is part of it, but for most of these drugs out there is other concerns as well, addiction and all of its destructive problems, health concerns, all of these have costs, with many coming out of our pockets... Personally i don't give a shit if you want to get high, fill your boots....but when tax dollars are being spent because of your choices then i think we "the others" also have a choice...hence our existing laws... If this is all about making choices, then hey giver make everything legal....but like all choices come consquences, and one should not expect the rest of us to commit tax payers dollars for your poor choices....

Are you kidding me, it's no claim but fact.....check some of the links i've already provided, read his testimony,read the testimony of others.... he freely admits he was involved in combat activites, of gather intel on American convoys and troop movements and relaying all that to the Taliban and Al quida....Then there is the fact he was shot while US soldiers raided the compound.... Heres my problem with the above treaty, on the battle field anyone that openily displays arms, or hostile intent or a soldier feels threaten in anyway that person or persons is a target, in which deadly force can be used...there is no age limit, no restrictions ....On the battle field everyone is treated the same... At the end of the battle there is no one checking ID's, to see who is a child and who is not, they are restrained and shipped to the rear for processing....here is where they will take the little scumbags and place them in separate cells if available.... And before you judge me as a cold hearted bastard here in Afgan i've personal seen terrorist scumbags as young as 11, who would cut your throat wide open if given the chance... Child soldiers are the norm here, don't get me wrong there is plenty of grown up scumbags as well....but here at age 11 you are considered a adult coming of age... What does that say about this whole topic....

Yes Guns are made to kill, but guns are a tool, Tools don't kill , people that use them do.... Nobody is forcing you to own a gun, why would anyone who does'nt want to farm own a farm tractor ?...But for those that do why should we restrict them...Like i said before a gun is a tool and when used within the law can provide food for you family, be used for recreational shooting or protection for your family.

For the most part i think our current laws reflects just that, most recreational drugs are illigal. I think the price is set on supply and demand, and what the consumer is willing to pay...Prohibition works for those that are willing to obey the law. Once the government gets into anything be it booze, cigs or drugs , it will come at a price and it will be heavily taxed....but does not cover all the other programs that are tied to this law...for instance cigs government ads claim that smoking claims the lives of up to 45 K Canadians a year, that fact alone should cause some concern, but what about the demands it places on our health systems, plus every thing else such as policing looking smugglers, and other illigal tobaco operations. The list goes on.... Hence my question what will legalizing these drugs do for the Average Canadian.... will it be benifical for the majority.... The movement to legalize some drugs is growing larger, and i'm concerned on how will it effect all of us, and yes when it comes down to it i want to know what will it cost me, as a tax payer in the long run. You sitting down for this I actually agree with most of what you said, yes i'm a smoker, and i do drink....And i do think that cigs above joints anyway should be illigal, tobaco kills more people in Canada than anything else....make it illigal and most will quit, sure your going to have your die hards ....as for booze, i think that would be a tough sell.... I'm not looking for the utopian world, just one with laws and guide lines written by people using common sense, break those laws and guide lines and you pay really it's pretty simple....but nobody has backed up any opinions to legalize anything with facts to convince me other wise...

There are many drugs available on the streets today that have been deemed illigal. And lots of excuses to have the legalized, but really what benifit would Canada and her people get if they where legalized. Some say less people charged and deemed criminals, less population in our jails, current laws are ineffective, prohibition has never been the answer, the only one currently profitting from such laws is the underworld, and criminals, these laws are someone else's moral values and what right does government have to issue values and morals.... But what we have so far is opinions, no hard facts that say our current laws are not detering drug use or prostitution, no hard facts that legalizing it will be a more effective way of controling it, and do we think for one moment it will be any safer with the government controling it... How much are we going to spend enforcing all these new rules and laws to control these type of activites under government control...shit we spent a billion plus dollars just to get an ineffective gun control reg off the ground under government control, will it stop grow ops, people trying to make a buck, by offering a cheaper solution, will it stop or effect any other illigal activities ... So will it make our nation any better, any safer, and i mean enough so that all this effort will be worth the return...nobody has convinced me of that yet.... other than the fact i will be able to buy a pack of government regulated joints with some gross picture on the cover, and order a hooker over the phone to deliver them...

Canada was offically involved in Oct 2001, ground forces operating along side of US forces began in Jan 2002. As to how it would be treason below is a para from Section 46 of the Criminal Code of Canada which describes treason. assists an enemy at war with Canada, or any armed forces against whom Canadian Forces are engaged in hostilities, whether or not a state of war exists between Canada and the country whose forces they are. Treason Cdn forces in Afgan At 15 years old this was a young man, considering he started his career at much younger age, and the fact his culture sees him as such...At 15 he is very capable of knowing right from wrong , good side from bad side....he was very much aware of what he was doing....His family knew that Canada had entered the conflict on the opposite side, and they continued the fight...His home was Canada, not Afgan, he or his family had no ties there, other than the fact it was where he was living at the time...His home was thousands of miles away in Canada... He has not been removed, he's confined with men that know nothing else but war, who have dreamed of nothing else but giving thier lives up for the cause, and given half the chance will return to Afgan to fight infidels like Canadian soldiers....Compassion...It was not all that long ago when this child as you call him was prowling the Afgan country side looking for coalition forces to kill....where was his compassion...Don't let his size or age fool you ,he his a radical muslim terrorist who would kill you and me for a joke if given the chance. I will agree he should be returned to Canada, only because the US system is not working in this case....not that i think we can do a better job, but rather see if we will do the right thing. Has Canada Officially asked to have him returned ?

I think Peter has it right, our government just does not want to deal with it, there is more than enough evidence on the other family members as well, most of them have freely admitted to thier assisting the Al Quada or taliban forces...be it purchasing arms for them, involved with the training camps, raising monies here in Canada for them, the list goes on and on... If it's not an issue for the people then it's not an issue for the government....but sooner or later this will rear it's ugly head again, the Khadrs are not the only Canadian citizens fighting again'st our allieds or Canadian soldiers. there are dozens of names...See the bottom of the page of the link below...these are just the ones that have been made public....not the ones of the lists that CSIS or RCMP have. alleged Canadian terrorists.

Section 46 of the Criminal Code of Canada has two degrees of treason, called "high treason" and "treason." However both of these belong to the historical category of high treason, as opposed to petty treason which does not exist in Canadian law. Section 46 reads as follows: "High treason (1) Every one commits high treason who, in Canada, (a) kills or attempts to kill Her Majesty, or does her any bodily harm tending to death or destruction, maims or wounds her, or imprisons or restrains her; ( levies war against Canada or does any act preparatory thereto; or © assists an enemy at war with Canada, or any armed forces against whom Canadian Forces are engaged in hostilities, whether or not a state of war exists between Canada and the country whose forces they are. Treason (2) Every one commits treason who, in Canada, (a) uses force or violence for the purpose of overthrowing the government of Canada or a province; ( without lawful authority, communicates or makes available to an agent of a state other than Canada, military or scientific information or any sketch, plan, model, article, note or document of a military or scientific character that he knows or ought to know may be used by that state for a purpose prejudicial to the safety or defence of Canada; © conspires with any person to commit high treason or to do anything mentioned in paragraph (a); (d) forms an intention to do anything that is high treason or that is mentioned in paragraph (a) and manifests that intention by an overt act; or (e) conspires with any person to do anything mentioned in paragraph ( or forms an intention to do anything mentioned in paragraph ( and manifests that intention by an overt act." It is also illegal for a Canadian citizen to do any of the above outside Canada. The penalty for high treason is life imprisonment. The penalty for treason is imprisonment up to a maximum of life, or up to 14 years for conduct under subsection (2)( or (e) in peacetime.

Ok, i can't find a ref to children under 15 that did face a military tribual....that being said, with all the child soldiers involved in WWII that not one commited a war crime, or not one that was charged with one seems unlikely...... I guess then there is something wrong with our system is there not....they are not afforded any special treatment on the battle field, there is no rule saying that you can not target an armed child taking part in a conflict....but step off the battle field and all of sudden they become a child once again....one that should be afforded special treatment...Mr. Khadr ceased being a child years before he was captured, his childhood was stolen by AL Quida and his parents....and by his chioce to become a combatant... Yes it has been a mess, and it should have been quick and easy....As for where he serves his time, who cares...as long as it is served....and correct me if i'm wrong but even under age criminals that have murdered once they become of age serve the remainder of thier term in adult prison.... Yes they should have, the entire family should have been asked to leave.....and this mess could have faded into the past...but they did'nt and are to blame for some of this mess....that being said it does not excuse what Mr. Khadr did nor should it effect the outcome of his punishment....

I think there is a double standard, alot of Canadians see young Mr, Khadr as a innocent Canadian Kid, caught up in a war and actions of his parents...which to some degree is true, but the other facts remain, he was involved in an armed conflict, he did take part in combat activities, including intel gathering all for the other side....and while his intended targets were US soldiers , i might add that Canada is part of that same coalition.... The reason i brought up the WWII example is this would have been a clear cut case, and everyone would have agreed....nothing more would have been said, he would have been tried and sentence carried out... I don't agree there are conventions both listed in International law, Genva convention, also Canadian law, that list everything you need to come under the protection of those conventions and laws....and he has broken or does not qualify as a prisoner of war... In Most cases i would agree that alot of taliban fighters are just that ,combantants, but Mr. Khadr case is a little different, although he was just a young child when all this began, he did know what he was getting into, his father was one of the leading fund raisers for Al quada and Bin Ladin was a family friend...the training he recieved was not one that baked cakes on the weekend, but rather hard combat training which included handling of wpns, explosives, tactics, and taking part of actual combat missions..With a group of known terrorists...a group which assisted taliban and carried out the talibans dirty work, such as the assignation of one of the northern alliance leaders Via a terror attack, and dozens of other terrorist attacks....But what we are saying is that he is not a terrorists until convicted of terrorist activity....and yet he is at the very least complicit in his actions... When you join such an organization you aspire to be all you can be...and like his father and brothers he wanted this.Most of these young boys and men believe in what they have been taught, and would not dare question it...an example of this ...His mother who wanted her boys to volunteer to become suicide bombers, that act clearly shows in her beliefs, and her dedication to thier teachings ...can you find a western mother willing to sacrafice her children for any cause....and yet we allow this family the rights to stay here in Canada, when they or most of thier family clearly hates the very instution that they take advantage of.... defination of terrorism. . international law. UN DEFINATION OF TERRORISM. I think there is plenty of laws out there that deal with terrorism, just nobody wants to try them out, here in Canada i believe the first case has been tried....i'm not sure of the outcome...But Mr. Khadr's case will be special as we now have lots of Canadian citizens fighting in wars on the oposite side of our allieds...and something will have to be decided, soon... I don't think you can be both a terrorist and combantant, as soon as your chargesd with terrorism and proven guilty your a terrorist period....and should be treated as such... I agree with you, this whole set of events has done more to harm this mission than anything else....including placing doubt in a soldiers mind, is it worth taking POW's at all.

I have to ask, was it alright for a Canadian during WWII with german decent travel back to germany, to take up arms and fight again'st the allieds, then expect to travel back to Canada at the end of the war to collect Canadian benifits....Is it fair to our own vets, our own tax payers, Would we be having this conversation if it was Canadian soldiers in which he engaged....and are we just having trouble with this because all he engaged is the US army. Did he break inter national law, terrorist activities are clearly again'st inter national law , as well as the UN charter...as well again'st the law here in Canada in fact in most western countries.... How will we accept those Canadians that have made there way over to Iraq to fight again'st the coalition be treated...As our CSIS dept head has stated it is happening right now....and the numbers are growing....

I think your misunderstanding what myself and the others are saying, most of the WW I vets would have been already serving in other units such as border gaurds, Air defense, etc etc, long before 1943....and by 1944 those that were left where truely old men, well over 55. And although some of them would have served in WWI, at 55 or older , Combat is the last place you want these guys.... As for the children, i think there is a big misconception here at 16 to 18 your no longer a child, and in most modern armies as well as Canada's you can join the military fighting formations as young as 17.... And while many out there will argue what they think is considered an adult, or a man, it is when some of our youth finish school and begin work,in the real world. earning a wage and supporting themselfs in my opinion makes them adults, or men/ women... Why i said that the young men in the 12 th SS was a poor chose was because of the programs they were already been subjected to. The Hitler youth programs where already gear for military type training, physical fitness training, and polictical indoc....that said their youth had been stolen, years prior in this training...and at 17 years old there where by far more adult or men..... than the allieds could provide.... It should also be noted that this division although mostly made up of teenagers, the NCO and officer corp where made up from the 1 SS panzer div, vets of the russian front....which would also make a big difference in combat.... 12 SS Div At the end of the War Germanies youth was used to defend key cities and installations, many as young as 10 to 12 years old, now this is a child, this is an act of deparation, not one of logical expedient in a difficult time...( it is bad when your down to old men over 55 and very young boys of 10 to 12 ) with very little training they where expected to defend and fight vets from the russian front and western front.... Hitlers fire brigades sorry big fat fingers, the 12 SS was used as stop gap measures or to influence many battles, as such they were shuttled around from one fight to another saving the day....in constant combat, one has to get good, or one gets dead.... The key word here being men, not small kids and old men....it is an act of desparation....just because the Russians used women in combat reflects more on thier values not desparation....why did the Russian not pull the women when the tables of the war where reversed....they had plenty of manpower....why not send the women home , late 1945 all that was left was the outskirts of Berlin....2 different countries that viewed thier women very differently.... You don't have to be a rocket scienctist to figure out from a battle map, that your screwed, or shortly will be, when masses of enemy troops out number your troops....and they are constantly being thrown back, i think most German Generals knew well before the Battle of the bulge germanies last offensive in the west....even Hitler knew after that battle was lost that the NAZI regime was in it's final moments....did not have long to reign....Yes the NAZI's where producing all kinds of new tech, but all of it was to late, and could not be put into production fast enough....SO while there was alot of fantastic wpns designed near the end, but there was no super wpn, capable of winning the war out right....

Near the end of the war "as it was mentioned, most of those that had fought in War I that were still reasonably fit or could recall thier training had already been called up, it was those old men that were left over that as a stop gap measure where thrown into combat.... As for the kids, the 12 SS is not a good example , these kids started at a very early age, and had been brain washed with the many NAZI programs meant for thier youth, those kids were hand selected for thier beliefs, thier fitness, and attitudes....and by the time they were of age they were men...not kids they were suppose to be....That and the fact they where one of hilters fire brigades meant they saw alot of combat, and you either learned to be a warrior or perished...

Actually DND was forced to make those changes due to Canadian law, and human rights commision, which thought previous recruiting practices were unfair to all Canadians. So yes the old standards have been deluted, and the actual recruiting standards where changed....Now everyone is excepted and must prove on thier own merit that they are not suitable for military duty while in recruiting school.... what that means is someone that weighs in at 3 to 400 lbs can and will be accepted into the military, and once they have proven they can not make the deluted minimum standards they are sidelined....and put in a special group, the recruits call it fat camp....here PT is the focus, all other training is ceased they spend there days getting into shape, and must show progress at different levels of thier stay in fat camp....if not , they are released...if after a certain amount of time and they still can not meet minimum standards they are released....once they pass the minimum standards they continue with thier regular military training. To those that think that fat camp would be a great way of lossing a few pounds at tax payers expense, give it a try, there are not lying when they said there is no life like it...it can be very tough on those that are not fit... Achieving Minimum standard is not all that tough, trust me...most people can do it right off the street....So for you ex military guys out there don't get to discouraged just yet....All this process does is slow down the weeding out of the weak....After recruit school is finished for the combat arms battle school begins....there are no, i repeat no changes to the standards here...you can't keep up to the tougher standards you released, or reassigned....it is one safety net still in place, the next safety net is the actual Combat arms units, where runing a 10 km cross country run is still norm, can't keep up yes they will cut you some slack, and allow you time to get into shape, but not much.... For those that do not go to combat arms school ,rather trades training they're next safety net is not until they get to there 1 st line units, it is here that they will run the guts out of you, and if your not prepared then life is going to be tough, your job and performance ratings will be lower than your peers etc etc and you will not progress as fast as they will... Yes they have changed the way we recruit, and whom is acepted... but in the end all they have done is waste your tax dollars, i mean what is more important here having a motivated fit person in the rank and file of our nations military, or telling a person that wieghs in at 400 lbs sorry your not what we are looking for.... One more note, when they talk about recruiting numbers , those numbers are the ones that have sucessfull passed recruit training. not those that were inducted.

I can see why dancer brush you aside, maybe it has something to do with your attitude. It's not the fact that the forces is having problems with recruitment, atleast not any more than any other dept, or large organization....but rather keeping people in ....thats the problem, things like a bulk of the forces is nearing the retirment age, the constant rotation in and out of missions, exhaustion of troops , hardships placed on family, plus many other problems.....You can't gut an organization , and expect to throw a few dollars at it expecting it to jump up back into the game....you forget that for 12 long years DND was gutted,and gutted hard.... That paltry 2,500 man force, makes up more than 1/3 of our fighting capibilty, does those numbers concern you....does it concern you that the other 2/3 of our fighting force does not have all of it's equipment it needs to deploy, in fact most only have 50 % or less of the vehs and equipment it needs.....and while things are slowly getting better under the cons it is a slow process....don't let a the purchase of a few helo's, some cargo aircraft and tanks fool you...we still got a long way to go And the liberals want to gut us once again.....what is left to gut...where do canadians draw the line...under the liberals the only place you'll be able to see military equipment is in the museum....but hey atleast we will be able to watch documantaries about our military on CBC,

Heres an interesting article about what the cons have done in regards to arts and culture. most have actually have had thier budgets increased....but i guess thats not good enough for the liberals....what is enough , and what is more important....you decide.... arts and crafts

who ever came up with those numbers are on crack. lets just take a look at one article that was published by the globe and mail.... .Current military budget is just over 18 bil, not 18 million (a small mistake) and will raise by 2 percent a year until it reaches 30 Bil in in 2027/28...is that scary or what....but did we all read it will allow us to keep pace with inflation .... yes they will be giving DND more money however it's buying power is not really going to be awhole lot more..not bad for a dept that is already in the red, or very close to it.... Whats this mean, it means that DND will not actually be seening any more growth than it actually is now....And i think most Canadians will agree that the Military is far from recovering from the dark years as Hillier put it...and the future is not getting any better... DND has already said and has been reported in the media, that to recover and maintain todays capabilities it would need equipment expenitures of well over 150 bil....that is not to finance growth, but to maintain what we have today....which is really sad when you think i could list all our major equipment on a few lines on this post....even luxemburg can do that....and ya , most of us are saying who is luxemburg.... 250 Bil for recruitment....DND has already said it wants to bring our numbers up to 70,000 regular force, and 30 reserve personal, it's already at 58,000 reg force pers...so 250 Bil for 12,000 extra personal where are they getting them from, and what are they training them to do...even NASA does not spend that much on recruits....Give us a break.....thats comes out to over 25 million dollars per recruit....Something stinks and it stinks bad.... Most Canadians agree that our military desparately needs to be overhauled , and modernized....DND has asked for and recieved approval to bring us up to 70,000 reg force pers and 30,000 res....(and i'll bet my life savings it won't cost the tax payer 250 bil to do that).....well under the majority of NATO members numbers... we do after all have the largest coastline and second largest continent, and have renewed our interest in our north.... Now is when we will find out who really supports the troops, or not...Yes it will cost us all some more funds to increase our numbers, but not these numbersn not even close.....and we need these numbers not so we can conquor the world but so we can have a break and perhaps get reaquinted with our families, for more than a couple months... Troops levels today, force already serving troops to constantly rotate in and out of missions, to the piont they are getting exhausted, The liberal government deemed that each solider needs to be in Canada atleast one year before reploying....what a crook of shit....most are coming home from tour, only to have a couple of months of then resume training for the next mission..... military spending.

hey they beat bufflo....i know pre season....but they won one....

Kengs333 Ya it is kind of Ironic that the topic of welfare and drug abuse is some how mixed into a topic on gun crime and violent crime. But now, because i make my living serving our nation and do so with many tools, one of which happens to be a rifle, that i'm not allowed to make a comment, on what effects our tax dollars and how they are spent...does everyone have these restrictions, or just the ones that might carry a gun to work.... As for the disparaging remarks, piont out which ones, and i will apologize to those people. I have already stated that i agree that there are people who really need this assistance, and that is what the program is for...to assist until that situation improves... What i won't apologize for is remarks about those that have abused the welfare system, or those that live off our dime because they won't or refuse to get a job for what ever reason....that sir, your going to have to live with....

So are you saying someone that wants to quit has no alteratives , ie no government help, no help from peers, no help from any oganization be from the hospital, etc etc.... No i don't , i do however know that it is thru my choice that i did not go down that road....and i do know everyone else had the same choice....only thats not what we are talking about is it... it about should these people who have made those choices collect welfare, and have there habit subsdized by the tax payer....

Depends on what system your using, of course the military system restricts the sites you can vist, ie Porn, dating, and and non government friendly sites... The other systems that are provided don't have the same restrictions, ie you could access any web site, keep in mind the following....they suggest you don't and it's frowned upon,there is a few rooms that are available set up with web cams , so we can talk to families etc....and time is limited to 10 minutes per person, ........keep in mind there is lots of people here all waiting to do the same thing, talk to family not jerk off to the playboy site.......there are other ways such as outdoor wireless areas....again open to the public and in the elements... i can't talk about the other systems, or how they work....

There a crock of shit, are you going to tell me with every education tool out there, not counting education from your peers.... that there is still some kid, adult that does not know about the effects of drugs and booze....and with all this knowledge is it still not a choice to try it once, or how many times. It is a choice, like everything in life....those with this problem need to own it...they had a choice...and they took the wrong path....it's not some disease that they caught at the strip bar.... No that would be the politically correct version...Just like they can quit when they choose be it with help or what ever it's a choice they make....

I can understand fate, but when has Canadian society taken away your chioces... Hey i understand that there is a need for this program, but i think we are lossing sight of it's intentions, which are to assist, not to solely provide for...or to train someone to speak english or french, but thier has to be a line in which we say hey not not entitled, those that are cronnically drunk or stoned, or abuse the system do not qualify, is that cold hearted, perhaps but it was thier choice.

Inter net is every where here. across the road from KAF is a Afgan inter net cafe, i don't recommned the coffee, Can't really comment on what type of inter net we have here, lets just say it would be the same as home, some is military, some of it's provided by Canadian companies....

Ok lets go over this again, it's assistance, meaning to help a person thru tougher times, it does not mean, sitting at home , or not working at all , it means doing everything you can to make ends meet, that may getting 2 jobs, or moving, retraining, more education, etc etc.... So your saying that all persons on welfare are not condemned to a life of crime....and you are agreeing that the life of crime is a choice, much as it is to say work, i mean if you can live the life of crime you should be able to work...i think that was already establish a while back....which brings us back to why are they not working in the first place....