Army Guy

Although the F-22 is a primary Air superiority fighter, they have been using them as a multi role or ground support aircraft in Iraq with great sucess. The US is also thinking about letting Japan purchase 60 Aircraft, and has already thought about selling Israel 60, and Australia so they are or could be available for export. Canada has already dumped in the required start-up or buy in funding for the F-35, and it is a great aircraft , my piont is however one of the prime reasons we went for the aircraft was price, not because it was a better aircraft, but the old all mighty dollar...seems to be a recuring theme... Canada has intentions of purchasing 60 of these aircraft to replace the job that 138 CF-18 were assigned, current numbers report that there 121 left, with only 80 upgraded, the remaining aircraft are in long term storage....with 2 Sqns of 24 aircraft operational , the remaining 32 are in depot level maintance, or training and Testing aircraft at AETE.... My other piont is the F-22 is worth considering, if our order for our 60 F-35's was changed for 60 F-35 Jump jet capable aircraft, which would give our airboys the ability to operate much closer to the battlefield and not on airfields(they'll be thrilled im sure)translates to more ordance on target for the ground guys which is a good thing. And it will ensure that we are inter operable with our US counter parts... Ground support aircraft are good, but Canadian soldiers have good cause to not place to much trust in them, experiance has shown us that they travel way to fast, to indentify ground targets acurately...our answer would be an attack helo, something like the AH-64D, it's slow, and can act as an airbourne arty platform, that can take it's time and properly identify it's target (friend or foe)

Here is two statements that contradict each other "we don't need enormous military investment" and up grading our military to allow for indenpendant action....You have of course seen the reports on what it will cost our nation, to upgrade and replace our existing military forces...no one is talking about expansion of our 56,000 pers, just up grading and replacing our existing equipment and infra struture to the piont we are at today....that being able to support independant action of 2500 soldiers on the ground and approx 600 sailors and airmen...that cost is well over 100 bil , the look on the tax payers face priceless.... Given our governments history on purchasing new equipment the F-22 is worth considering, (and certainly not at the 250 mil price per aircraft) it is expensive, fly away costs is est at 97 mil per unit, of course that does not include spares, training, wpns pkgs, etc....even with all that added up the Israelis almost had an agreement to purchase 60 with all the bells and whistles including spares , training, wpns pkgs for 200 mil a piece.. And while the price tag may shock you, lets consider a few things first, Our military forces "must" be able to inter operate with American forces as our foreign policies are linked, not totally but they are linked...The defense of North America is a joint effort, and if our forces are not inter operable then it would be counter productive to our defense would it not.... We must show the US that we are atleast somewhat serious about our own defense, if we want a say on how that defense is to be run, put under US rule until the crises is over is exactly the direction we are in now, and will remain until we take our defense seriously....and if that is the case becoming the 51 st state is not all that unthinkable. We as a nation have always purchased the lowest bidder when talking about our military equipment....and yet we don't practice that in our personal and daily lives, but when it is our nations soldiers life on the line, sorry, you'll have to look in the "used" section....which is fine until your son or daugter signs up..... Purchasing military equipment should be about our nation giving our soldiers the edge over our enemies...not by shopping at thrift shops... Nobody was taking about going toe to toe with the Russians, but let me ask you this, had the Georgian thing gone south and Mr Bush decided to make a stand, do you really think our military would not be involved.....everyone would be drawn in....but we would be at a disadvantage would we not...considering we buy at the thrift market...yes many Canadians would pay the price because we love money.... Nobody is advocating a massive Army, a Massive build -up, for our made in Canada ambition of world dominance but atleast one that can support 6 to 9000 soldiers on the battle field at one time.... A goal that even most 3 rd world countries have achieved, one that is well within our grasp....

WOW, thats a pretty one sided opinion. But then again you could say that about any language could you not, Russian, Chinese, Japanse, German, French, Italian, and the list goes on, thier history is full of conflict, warfare, oppression, and yes Slavery... And while the US, Britian, Canada and the rest of english bastards do not come out of all this smelling like roses, i'm sure that they are far from winning the crown of being the worst nation in history, and while as bad as giving out small-pox blankets sounds, it does not compare to the exicution of millions of jews be it from bullets to gas, or stalins rampage that cost well over 20 million souls.... I almost chocked when i read your comment on the peace loving muslims of great cilvilzations in Kabul, and Baghdad. only because i assumed that you were refering to the Taliban and Sadam's merry gangbangers we call insurgents...one could only hope i was wrong.

Not a big fan of American history are you ?....I guess russians should learn to fight the good fight at the start of the wars, and they would'nt have to fight them on thier own land.... The mongols had captured alot of Russia and kept it for how many years.... Is that the same war that Canadian's had to assist mother russia in Russia during the revolution... Sure, i guess history is written differently in Russia.... . Guess you guys won that one too, tell me who dropped the H bomb in Russian history books... Hey they gave us Stalin, the worlds biggist mass murderer. and a few others Ivan the terriable, etc etc thier whole history has been filled with bloodshed... Hey lets not forget about the space race, finsihed second place, but you need two to race right... Vodka lets not forget about that.... Hey there was those famous eggs , made of jewels and shit... The cold war hey lets not forget about that small contribution... Hey there was Lenin....and marxism... anything else...

You do know that there are civilian diplomates from numerous countries acting as mentors, and advisors, but that is the limit of thier roles, all the decisions are made by the Afgan parliment, and not all thier policies, directives are well like by the west...piont being is they are Afgan policies,and NATO is abiding by them... Still having a hard time wrapping your head around the numbers....The Taliban or for that matter any terrorist org have the upper hand because they can fad in and out of afgan at will, they pick the time and place to attack, every attack is planned to have maxium impact on the civilian population and the western media..Unless a country can have a huge presence on every street corner, they the terrorist will always have the upper hand, Even Russia had some problems with terror, and thier country was far more restrictive than any western country could hope to be... China another example having problems with its olympic security, and it has far more troops in just one city.... There is not a strong Military presence in Afgan, you've read the reports NATO would need to double it's current numbers to have a strong military presence there....But as the mission is not popular with the NATO countries this is not going to happen....it is also hampering efforts in regards getting the right equipment and funding needed to actually make a difference....The entire country is not in conflict, the north and west rarely in the media because it is relatively peaceful.... As for Bosina and Cyprus, check into these missions histories and tell me there was no combat....The Canadian Airbourne did thier last Combat jump in Cyprus, and 7 of thier soldiers paid the ultimate price, medak pocket another example......Peacekeeping has another myth attached to it, that it was full of handing out teddy bears and candy, but those mission never start out that way, hence why it's done with machine guns and armoured vehs.... I agree the UN is a waste of air and space.

This site may be able to answer some of your questions. CASR

Vintage aircraft rally in Ottawa... air rally

Perhaps in the submerged world sinkings go unnoticed, or rather covered up...But sink a surface ship and you have an international incident that will send to nations to war....once at war, thats another story... Russia's taking our north by force are limited byland... thru Alaska, (just not going to happen) or by sea or air, directly onto Canadian soil with alot of her navy in rust out condition, it would be very difficult to mount an effective Amphip assualt and keep it supplied. leaving the Airbourne option...again weather would play a big part in resupply operations...making it extremily difficult.... I think white doors has a point on expanding our navy, (god i hope no one from the navy reads this) but having a few Ice Hardned destroyers, or frigates with both a littoral and air defense capibilities would allow us to further close that gap of possiabilities. That coupled with some subs, i do like the nuk power ones but i like the new German Dies powered one i think it's a Type 212, just because of affordability, it's not as complicated as a nuk , and could be maintianed here in Canada...But we should also be purchasing a small fleet of long range UAV,s , and updating our maritime patrol A/C and have these placed along with a Sqn of new jets, F-35 or F22's in one of those two new artic bases...of course a few Sats would round everything off nicely...lacing the waters with sensors would also be nice... But that would keep them honest, but nor off our coast, for that you need boots on the ground...expansion of the Artic Rangers would be a good first step, but also placing an Artic Inf Bn in one of those artic bases would be perfect, along with some New Ch-47F helos, and a few of those New C-27J to allow for rapid transport and resupply....to allow for constant patroling, presence, and a steady flow of artic trained soldiers.... Another Mech brigade group would also be nice...expansion of CSOR into a full Regiment of 3 BN's, Attack helo's, more Trans helos, Completely overhauling our ARTY, Armoured corps....and giving Back to the Infantry it's own integral combat support, Mortars, Assualt PNR's, Anti armour defense, Armoured Recce.

Guyser I'm voting for you....and hell yes bring it on, with a few revisions first.....Serges the female russian wieght lifter has got to go ....that event needs to be shut down....and replaced with bouncing on the trampilin right off the Man show...

Some things are not meant for public consumption, such national security, etc etc...but there could be more transparency i agree... Not sure what comment your reffering , i'm assuming it was how one citizen could spark our government into action....maybe they should be asking the professor on tips.... I do place most of the blame on the government for keeping us in the dark, but there is plenty of places to get reliable info from...ask any mother with a son now in Afgan, they have more info than our intel cells , who is where, what they are doing, the whole nine yards...all from the inter net, and phone....So really there is little excuse for not keeping informed, and if your vocal , or truely believe in your postion then you should be well informed.... Just a question, why is that the number one question people want to know...is it the cool factor, would you treat them any differently if they had or had not....anyways just curious ....I'm glad he has a clear concious, most do, but that still does not mean he's not having problems with dealing with it....be careful when aproaching this type of topic in the future, sometimes it can trigger unwanted responses...even from old friends....Family is number one, for sure....me and my wife have an agreement as soon as she had enough of my deployments i'd get out and do something else....behind every good soldier, is an excellent wife.......

Be careful of what you wish for...normally 4 RCMP officers would be enough to handle any circumstance in rural alberta or rural any where...Maybe next time they'll be rolling up in a swat van, and the farmer will be taken down hard and fast, under cover from smoke and tear gas, with couple of flashbangs thrown in for good measures...I know is much better to applogize later and be alive, but like i said who really expects this type of reception from rural anywhere..... it was a tragic mistake, but one that we as citizens expect out of our police officers....you know the ones that knock on the door, and politely say "RCMP ma'am" ....not someone yelling thru a bull horn you got 3 seconds to come out with your hands up, or we open fire....times up open fire....bring in the damn tank....call ottawa we need an airstrike....

Now what would be impressive is if they could make a pair of them goggles that would make them look good in the morning or atleast until you've made your escape.....Hey K-tel would make a killing, for 29.99 you to could own your beer goggles...

I'd like to think so, but then again i'm sure our government has ongoings and dealings that we the public are total unaware of....and are making decisions on what is best for the country, not portions of it, or in this case what the majority thinks.... I'm assuming you meant because we were unprepared, and not afraid of alittle misconception.... Is that what were calling it now, lack of willingness, sorry i'm old school....Your argumant holds no water, as the Professor quit clearly showed how one individual made our entire government leap into action....if one Citizen could do it , my question is why not the majority....As for the people who are supporting the mission i don't think so, as i find i'm always defending my postion, always researching and keeping upto date on current facts.... If only it was that easy, but you know as well as i do, that it was "not keeping the public informed" that lost the majority support that i blame the governments in charge, as well as the opostion parties for not forcing that issue...and the media for not reporting the news as it happens, and exactly how it happens....to many times i watch teams of reporters get a briefing from the CO, and the next morning hear the news not one station reported it the same, i'll also watched many of the stations report the news and not once leave the base....not becausae they could not leave the base but rather they did'nt want to... Your right it is a NATO mission , but when our government decided to jump on board, it became a Canadian tasking not just for our soldiers but for all of us..... Again same as the above statement getting the public well informed has been our governments downfall on this mission.... If you mean did i read it before they sent it back, NO....i'm aware only because i was there when some of these events took place and have first person knowledge...but there is still the freedom of info request that is available to every citizen...want to know ask and ye shall recieve....

Yes Berlin, germany, but they won thier olympic bid in 1931, a full year before the Nazi party even came to power....do you think the OIC would have granted Berlin the games had they known what was to come some 5 years later.... Actually 1896 was the first modern olympic'smodern olympics And although the olympics does have a history going back some 1500 years i'm sure there would be more than one century that could be classified as horrific....one could hardly blame the olympics for the century being as horrific as it was than you could blame say christmas....

I actually thought each was pretty clear, The Majority of Canadians don't support the mission when asked, but they won't or are unwilling to do anything about it, unless it is negative towards the mission and requires minimum effort....and with the mission so unpopular without the will of the majority nothing will get done, and if it does it's at a snails pace.... ....for example....A professor in Ottawa accuses our troops of mishandling POW's and within days planes fill the Afgan tarmac, with MP's of all shapes and sizes, announcing WE are here to investagate the POW abuses, although proven false, it got a major reaction from the canadian people where demanding something be done....But on the other hand, Soldiers are dying because of improper equipment, lack of numbers , proper funding ....and poof...it gets rear page coverage.... It is in my opinion that the majority of Canadians will not act unless it has a negative effect on the mission and requires minimum effort....not because they strongly believe the mission is wrong, but because they are to damn fuking lazy to do anything else....saying no requires less effort than saying yes. Heres the catch it was the majoprity that orginally decided to send us over, waving and cheering, shouting kick some ass....OK off we went, only to find out later on that we no longer had that support at home....and things started to slow way down.....This was a Canadian mission, which means all of us, all carrying our wieght ...now it has turned out to be an Armed forces mission with us carring all the weight... There is a big difference in still learning , and not knowing a thing, and making a decision that does effect others. you don't have to be on the ground as per say, but you can atleast read and view the material brought back from the zillions of government mps that have been there. make a decision based on fact not here say.

You make it sound like a useless piece of paper, but in fact it is a written record of the laws that have been passed by vote. it gives the government thier basic guide lines in which to govern, . It outlines to every citizen all of thier basic rights and thier limits....Much more than a piece of paper....It's the operators manual for the country if you will...and while you can live without one, you still need to referance it once and awhile. Zahir Shah was able to govern on his own in 1963[9] and despite the factionalism and political infighting a new constitution was introduced in 1964 which turned Afghanistan into a modern democratic state by introducing free elections, a parliament, civil rights, liberation for women and universal suffrage.[12] Rights Hilter and Stalin also had stable governments....Dictators that rule with absolute fear normal do have stable governments, does'nt it mean that it is a good thing....unless of course you believe that a stable government trumps having basic human rights..... Give me a break, goggle it and find out how many hits you get, Canada was debating thier mission 4 or 5 years later.... How do you know it was the wrong mission, your still learning about it, you still do not have all the facts so how can you have already decided "it's the wrong decision" ...do you do that problem solving technique with all your problems or just big inter national ones... So it's taking to long in your opinion, and just what experiance or knowledge do you base that on ? Bosina 20 years plus, Cyprus 40 years plus, hey just goggle it and find out just how long these mission take.... I'd like to just correct something else while we are here, you said "we" have been there for 6 years, but most of "we" have not been there at all... I'll explain, That while it is true Canada has sent it's troops into Afganistan to assist the entire peace process, and have paid dearly for thier commitment, in blood, sweat, and tears....it is also true that the minority of Canadians have supported our troops, this mission, and have done many above and beyond things in the process, to show thier support.... It is also true that the Majority has done nothing, other than have a portion of thier tax dollars diverted into this mission, and only because they have no choose in the matter....and they bitch about doing that small part. I mention this not to demean anyone, but rather to place credit where credit is due. This mssion was suppose to be a Canadian one, which meant all of us, have a role to play, like it or not we still have a role until our government decides we are finished....and for years now that has not been happening.... As for our accomplishments on this mission, I'm hoping you do some research on them, and discover for your self just how much has been done, but also realize how much is left to do...Our nations soldiers work 24 hours a day 7 days a week, with each soldier avg approx 19 to 20 hours a day, in the worse conditions known to man....unless you have a more efficient plan , it is unfair to judge them or thier accomplishemnts... Really, Is that why they passed a UN resolution on the 12 Sept, number 1368(2001)(below) The US did not start air operations until 7 Oct 2001, and a limited ground presence was'nt until 22 Oct 2001....so the UN was not covering it's tracks or the US after the fact....or creating some sort of legitimate excuse for this whole issue....It is you that are creating false facts.... There is more if you want to read them all, but that is pretty strong language for the UN.... Un resolutions. Thats all your doing, on one hand you say we should be helping, just not fighting because we don't know whom it is we should be fighting...we can't build because we don't know what they want....good pionts, all of them, but give those in charge some credit, they are Afgan's and they know whom the bad guys are, and have made that very clear, infact 10 mins in country and you'll know as well....as for the rebuilding it is the Afgan governments that decide what and where is to be built we provide the security, and tech assistance....other than small projects such as schools and wells, etc...we do that on our own... The same way clifford olson, created fear and panick, or allen leger, you don't have to vist every home or every village, they kill randomly leave very public and gruesome messages....word of mouth travels fast, with the tale growing bigger with every passage....History is full of millions of examples how fear can control large numbers of people... Last time i look over my shoulder there was very little NGO's offering to rebuild anything....it was us and the Afgan people....the job needs to get down and where doing it if that is bad or countetr productive please explain.... Forever is a long time but over atleast a 25 year period...in one form or another....It's not honourable to leave someone high and dry, or while still in thier hour of need.... This is not something that is new, or Canada has not been exposed to, check our history and how long a typical peacekeeping mission is....there is no drive thru lane in nation building or peacekeeping....if we as a nation can not afford the time or money to do the job then we have no right in pretending we do....and we should stick our head back up are arses, and call it a day.... How do you know that for a fact, Many have said they support us, and believe in us , use to take great pride in calling us peacekeepers, warriors ...but now they have no faith in us, impossiable task, never do it....funney they said the same things in vimy and now it is a great part of our history....i will tell you this if it does not work it won't be for our nations soldiers lack of trying it will be because the Majority of Canadians gave up....thats going to look good in the history books.... And if the the majority of Canadians wanted us to have the equipment and funding we need to do the job it would have already happened....don't fret, we are happy to eat the peanuts we recieve now, and regardless of how much more or less we recieve we will continue to be happy and serve this nation with pride.... do something anything, but something is alot better than nothing....i'm not trying to change your mind just making sure you got the facts straight so you can make an informative decision.....

So that is the reason you want them out of the schools....because of a few shady recruiters, and a few careless students that failed to read between the lines... Here in Canada you require your parents permission up until the age of 19....then i guess some magical ferry teaches you to read the entire contract before signing.... It is also alot easier to get out of our military, or cease your contract.... Regardless of what precautions you take there will always cases like this...

A contract is still a contract, and yes some police and fire depts do require a contract to be signed....

There was a bit done by the science channel, can't remember the shows name, used to have that american and British chick on it... they done a whole hour on it, show the different plants, how they made the wings and the body...very interesting....one incrediable aircraft...

If you are going to do this it should be universal, no fireman, or police recruiting, or for that matter any job that has unlimited liability.... But i guess it's ok to recruit for some of the other most dangerous jobs on the planet.

In the case of Afghanistan, the US dropped the ball after helping the Mujahadeen/Taliban defeat the Soviets. The US gave the Taliban/Mujahadeen a free pass to set up a dictatorship in Kabul and the rest is history. No lets not get facts mixed up with movies....How could the US drop the ball when the Communist government was still in power upto 3 years after the Russians made thier great escape....After the communist government did fall, it was replaced by a Mujahadeen government....still don't how they dropped the ball.... Would you say that the Majority of Canadians are well informed about Afganistan ?....another problem with putting power directly into the people hands, are they willing to educate themselfs on all the issues, or will they just vote to bring about some change in thier own lives....IE i won't vote for that because it is NDP. LIBERAL, regardless if it's good or bad policy.....and why just stop at the real big decisions....where do you draw the line... Then instead of a referendum, hold a national poll, i would much rather put my life into the hands of an educated elected offical, than some red neck for my home town any day.... A poll would give those in power just what the nation thought...but like i said before sometimes the right decision is not the popular one....

Is'nt he in BC....i mean don't you have to fit in....

bush_cheney2004: OK where do we sign, you won't need any military muscle....unless of course you want to give her back....

A referendum does have it's merits, but history is full of examples of where they don't work exactly as planned....WWI or WWII was not very popular in Quebec , in fact the consription crises nearly tore this country apart....and yet it was clearly the majority of the country that wanted to be involved, to support Britain.... MY piont is majority rule is not always the best course of action, someone needs to be able to make a decision based on what is the best for the country....

No it's clearly a terrorist act, robbing a bank is criminal, flying a plane into a building with the intent of creating terror is a terrorist activity.... Really can you name a few examaples where this has actually worked....i mean without the threat of using military force....say in the last 20 years...hell make it 30 You might want to re check those facts.... perhaps provide a link to where the US assisted the Taliban in anything....the time line is not right, the russia war started in 78 until 89....the Taliban really did not evolve until 94.... mujahideen divides there was no power sharing between the two groups, and there was no direct US involment or free passes in setting up any form of government...