Army Guy

I read the following article about some of the terrorist involved in Canada's home grown terrorist net work, the Toronto 18...and was some what disappionted, for a lot of reasons, the length of the sentences handed out, i mean even the judge explains the seriousness of the crime then hands out somewhat easy sentences...and the piont that always drives me a 2 for one on time already served awaiting trail....very disappionting...... Some of the lesser characters involved in this plot, will be out of prison very shortly...leaves me shaking my head... The article also compares Canada's sentneces to those handed out in the US...a major difference here, actually a shocking difference, to the other extereme...even harsh ...But maybe they want to set the example , and make it very clear, that these types of crimes are not tolerated....but like i said they are harsh, perhaps Canada could really look into this portion of it's justice system and revise it...find some middle ground. I guess what really disappionted me is how these findings will reflect on future cases,such young Mr khadrs, other Terrorist cases waiting in the wings....shit we just might owe young Mr Khadr time back, for his stay in prison... So my question i ask my self is this one, if terrorist crimes carry such minimal sentences, are they even worth the time and effort our country puts into combating them...I've watched more than a few of my comrads being slowly loaded onto the back of a herc, in flag drapped coffins, thinking to myself as the procession slowly filed by me, with tears streaming down my face, Yes it's worth it, for the Afghan people , for Canadians damn right it's worth it.... Now this message comes out Our justice system has spoken...a life sentence for a ring leader, which really means 9 to 10 years served...and i remember those ramp cerimonies , those young soldiers lives cut short, battling something i thought our country took seriously "the War on terrorism"...i also look at all those wounded soldiers lifes changed forever...not 9 years but for a real life sentence...for the rest of thier lifes...(who are also in the news today battling our government for changes to our care policies....or lack of )it does not seem fair.. My linkwww.thestar.com/

Then you agree young mr Khadr did know exactly what he was doing, that planting IED's and taking up arms was wrong...if not very dangerous, and could cost him his life...or may force him to take a life...Which as seen in his vidio he was very willing to do....SO if he knew better, he knew right from wrong why are we willing to give him a free pass.... I mean Canadians , young offenders in Canada don't get a pass, under our law they are held accountable form thier actions...to the piont where in some cases commiting an adult offense one could be tried as an adult...except when your a soldier...child soldier, here we give them a free ticket to ride, one could commit any crime one wishes only to finally pull that ticket out and start crying....I"M a child soldier.... Correction...normal kids are not involved in a combat zone, normal kids would already know right from wrong....and by picking up arms one subjects oneself to the rules of War....If you have not commited any crimes, then by all means give them what ever help they need....but everyone must pay for thier actions....regardless of age... No there is no rub, Khadr does not belong to an army but to a terrorist group, clearly spelled out not only in the genva convention, but also in Canadian laws....and for some reason you keep mixing the two together....and the are separate indenties....And under all those laws young mr Khadr is indentifed as a terrorist...and their is no laws for child terrorists... Here is where i agree with you some what, the treatment of young mr Khadr is a red mark in our history, terrorist (and when i say treatment i mean torture, not his confinement....)or not Canada should have stepped up and done the right thing...bringing him home and putting him on trial....But where the rubber hits the road is how and who we make accountable for all these actions including young mr khadrs, his families, our government, and other governments.....It's still not to late for our leadership to do the right thing and hold all accountable...

The above quote is what we as Canadians have determined, at age 18 a person is physically an adult, but not fully developed mentally...But this not how Khadr was raised and brought up, in his culture and raising your an adult as young as 11 up until age 14...In his culture he is treated as a man, entitled to everything that comes with that. But we as Canadians expect our 14 ,15 and 16 year olds to already know the basics of right and wrong....you can't expect us to swallow that pill"he did not know any better", do your kids know that it is wrong to take anothers life ? Do your kids know that firing a wpn into someone can lead to death, that planting a bomb under someone cars is OK. Our laws for under age persons in Canada are quit clear, they are based on case by case and the severity of the crime, our history is full of children tried for adult crimes, and in some cases as an adult...there is NO get out of jail free card because of age....nor should there be....each case is different....but every action needs to have some consquences....Being classified as a child soldier should not be that all get of jail free card.... I've seen these child soldiers in action, and trust me they are nothing like our children that we have raised, under our protection and our laws, we should NOT be comparing the two, leave the tears and compassion aside, and judge them one by one case by case ....as they would have none for you or me on the battle field. ...In war these kids grow up fast, and they know exactly what they are doing, and what is right and wrong...They are just as capable of doing crimes against humanity as adults...

I think ALL Canadians need to sit down and think about this mission, they need to come to the conclusion that it is going to take alot of effort,funding and even more time to make a dent in assisting Haiti over coming this problem...If they don't then we are wasting our time, funding and effort...this needs to be a long term commitment that most Canadians do not have the fortitude to see though...This time we do need to see things though...

Then whats the solution, how do we go about helping the Afghan people ? That is one of the key problems with this mission....everyone and every dept has a solution but does not want to implement it, nor do they want the military to implement it....So many solutions stay on the shelves, rotting... When it comes down to it the majority of Canadians don't care what happens to Afghan, it's people, or the mission... They (the Afghan People) have used up Canadians attention span for to long and for the majority it's time to move on, find something else....even though we don't have a clue whats next nor do they care...Canadians want the world to think they are making a difference, they want the world to think they are great humanitarians or peacekeepers, or white knights of justice.... but in reality they don't know what they want nor do they want to spend thier resources to achieve these high and mighty goals...

They are after part of and under the control on the JTF task force commander , however this is only one of the many ways to cover Afghan, one example of that is Scott taylor, who has on many occasions made his trip inside Afghan with any military help or assistance at all... All that being said i've yet to hear any request for any media or inbedded media being turned down to go on operations with the troops...outside the wire...but that is a choice that these media people make, the military is going outside the wire with or without them. if they don't ask they don't go. i It comes from the military and our government , and although i don't think it is suspect i do think it's one sided and does not tell the entire story....which i believe is important and it is what i expect form the media coverage....i mean even i can spout the government message saving money, and as we,ve seen lives...I think that if they got outside the wire and reported things first hand "seen " the events that they are reporting on we would get a somewhat different view. Like i said before she is one of the few, that went outside the wire, of the hundards that have covered the Afghan campaign...what i find frustrating is that alot of canadians will write off a soldiers opinion, casting it as the party line , they are supposed to say that ....and yet we have media types who refuse to go outside the wire cover the war from a first hand perspective, a perspective that Canadians are depending on for info on this war. NEXT to the soldiers jobs of fighting and dieing in this war the next most important is the media coverage, to keep Canadians well informed ...after all it is Canadians who will win or lose this conflict with their support or lack of it.

Sorry Bugs i'm not sure i understand what your ref to.

So which rules restricts a reporter from going outside the wire,I can't find them, nor does it say that reporters will be confined to Inside the wire....I want to make a note here as well most reporters not all stay inside the camp.... A reporter goes through alot of training and expenses as you've said to just get into camp....pity most blow this and stay in camp...and get they're news fed to them.... Nothing will keep a journalist safer than traveling with atleast a platoon size unit of grunts....in heavily armoured vehs...they've used the "Canadians need to know and have a right to know first hand" comment to get access to Afghan....and they piss it away, by getting second or third hand knowledge of events..We demand more from our troops why can't we demand more from our journalist ....

I do or rather did while on tour, it's frustrating to watch these guys report the same shit only because they won't leave the wire....After all they have a job to do as well as anybody else....reporting from inside the wire from a prepared military after action report is not reporting....but rather recyling something they could do over a sat phone. As for our government and how it does things your right...maybe someone should try and change something....

But thats not what the people want to read about, sitting down for breakfast reading the media, it really makes for boring water cooler conversation,at work or at the dinner table....shit even the deaths of soldiers no longer a topic except for the no sayers... Your so exactly right about our nation that has grown into a fast service nation, everything needs to be brought to the table now...we need to consume it and move on to the next problem...but conflicts rarely have a fast time table, and the recover is even more rare to have a timely end....BUT Canadians will continue to search out a mission that we can win in 5 mins and rebuild in time for the next commericial break. I only hope is that the people of Afghan can understand that we did not abandoned them, in their time of need. and that those that did sacrifice everything will not be forgotten.

She`ll get some very valuable training in the US, our military has not cut any training dollars for operational training, meaning she`ll get all she needs and more...As for her being scared, she`s not alone every soldier there is scared,. training will kick in and she`ll do fine...just like the thousands of soldiers that have gone before her. Afghan is one hell of a country, and i`ve heard described much worse...and while i don`t miss being there i would go back if asked,...my wife won`t allow me to volunteer any more...

I don't think the story is revieling the whole truth, Yes the say 2000 will quit in the first year, but in those numbers are attrition from basic training which is designed to weed out large numbers. That and the fact that the long waiting times to start trades training which follows right after basic are some major hurdles that in todays Military are just a fact of life. And until we increase training infra structure, housing, places for them to work that and get more instructors that will not change... Believe it not but it used to be a higher number sometimes as high as 50%, when hiring practices, training practices, and human rights where toned down for the Military and RCMP. it was these tough training standards that produced a better all round recruit, i mean after going though all that a person really either wanted to be there, and had that career picked out or was weeded out really early. But i think it had more to do with that generation in which recruits where chosen, todays kids are smarter, but really need to be forced into doing something physical, and well the military is very physical...

I also think our national media has done a dismal job of reporting the war, most not all but most of the Canadian media fly into kanadar and never leave the wire, instead rely on HQ after action reports given each night in front of the press, or from returning soldiers who for the most part don't really trust the media, or respect them enough....that being said they're have been a few reporters that have atleast went outside the wire and earned the soldiers trust and admiration....reporting what they saw without putting some PC twist to it. As for our current government and the previous one both have done an even shitter job ensuring Canadians are atleast informed with the facts....This has done more to hurt the mission than anything else. Polls , both of us know that polls mean nothing, except to bureaucrats and politicians....i mean really even if 99% of Canadians disapproved do you really think anything would be done to return the military....and what are we returning them to, the next mission...or the next fiscal cuts to the budget....

It's easy to make those decisions sitting in your chair behind your computer....It's a whole different world when your a soldier, and when a huge majority of soldiers really believe in this mission. They look past all the media and all the false PC shit going on in ref to this mission they here it direct from other soldiers mouths....that here we are making a difference in the world, be it one person or an entire village, but Canadian soldiers are making a difference, and most soldiers want to be a part of that.. Beats sitting on some UN mission watching war crimes happen in front of your position and not have the power to do anything. except report it so the UN can keep score...No thanks, i believe our lives are worth more than that, i believe our flag and nation deserves more than that. I also believe the people we were sent to help need more than help....

William thats a question you should ask yourself, any trade in the CF has it's good points and bad, but at the end of the day we all serve we, are one team. I do have one question though william, for a man who is considering joining the reserves you have a big chip on your shoulders, why is that ? I mean judging from all your posts i would not put you as a military friendly person. I would not peg you as a military type personality, but rather an anti military type... Who knows perhaps some military training is just what you need, it might even get that chance to change what ever it is that makes you seem so anti military. seeing it first hand is always the best medicine....

What lies William, show me the lies,,,below is a copy of the Infantry job discription taken from the same link, don;t they contradict each other...which one do think moves faster Infantry or Ammo Tech...Did the recruiter tell you how many are in the AMMO trade and how slow it can be in then upper ranks....guess not..ask him about the Infantry,,, nfantry Soldiers enjoy excellent opportunities for advanced training and promotion, and advancement can be faster for Infantry Soldiers with agile intellect, good leadership ability and a positive attitude than for CF members in other occupations. Employment opportunities for Infantry Soldiers exist across Canada and on deployed operations around the world. Im not a snake william, just a guy with 29 years service, who has corrected you on a few military matters...thats all.... you want to post something about the military, then aleast have your facts right,

Keep trolling....Why would DND be taking action to return if there was no real pullout.... Ask yourself this question has the government answered any of your questions, have they stated what their future plans are, in any detail....

I;ll break it down for you, Pte to Cpl can be achieved in 2.5 years, Cpl to Mcpl can be as little as 2 years, in the Combat arms trades once your PLQ qual your eligable,...Mcpl to Sgt once again 2 years, Sgt to WO is 3 years, etc etcthere are exceptions to every rule, prove your outstanding and you;ll get promoted faster, step on your dick and well you;ll stay in rank for sometime,... Same as the officer rank levels 2 and Lt to capt are consider junior officer ranks and as long as you donèt step on your dick and meet all your profomance objectives you ll be promoted each level in 2 to 3 years....At the Maj and above rank level you need specific courses to be promoted.... get the course and you^ll progress, but everything is healthy now.... True, but not always so, there are exceptions perhaps time in rank does not allow you to be a section or plt commander, due to unit requirements,,,,then an exception may be made, however training pkgs take this into account and provide you the training you need or required, without actually commanding a section or plt.... No thats what 29 years experience in the military has told me, And william your link is for the Somalia inquiry, it;s alittle dated donèt you think, try the recruiting link on the DND web site.... This is old minimum time required for promotion is 30 mths from Pte to Cpl The next promotion requires leadership training - 2 years for rank master corporal. (esentially this is how long it takes for people to get degrees.. eg. bachelors and masters degrees) This is true however like i said before there are exceptions to the rule, now leadership training once completed could get you promoted....Mcpl is a non commisioned rank does not require any degrees, No it could mean 3 promotions in 5 years, or less and yes that is fast, when you think that these guys might be leading you into combat and their skill your life depends on.. Is this fast for you? For Sgt it would require another 2 years service meaning 8 years service 3 name rank that to me is probably half of someones carear. or perhaps a quarter. warrant officer another 3 year.. which these roles I beleive become more logistical 2 years 2 years... Promotion is possible but I wouldn't call years of service speedy promotion. I guess when your life is not on the line it may not seem fast, but i;d rather have someone with experience and time in calling the shots would;nt you.

Both are, The last orders the military received,was our Countries military operations would cease in 2011, Our government still has not decided on what foot print we are as a nation going to have in AFghan, in order for the CDS to accomplish his last orders he has to make massive plans well in advance he is trying to make the government tell him what thier future plans will be.... Who knows but DND has payed for the brunt of this mission and i can`t see it changing any time soon, hence why the military is trying so hard to get further orders from our government, so it can come up with a cost... Equipment is going to be left behind, as it would cost more to ship it than to bring it home, remember alot of that equipment is pretty much worn out, the newer stuff will return with then troops ....Just one point to remember that the Kanadar base is very vast, bigger than any one here in Canada so security is not an issue.

William thats not true, promotions within the military are at an all time high, movement within the ranks and officer levels is healthy, with lots of room for progression. As for the effectiveness of those older soldiers you talk about, i say bullshit, speaking as one of them i`m over 40 and have no problem running 10 kms in well under 40 mins, or rucking in the Afghan mountains for weeks on end.... And while my body does feel it, every soldier i`ve seen on the battle field earns his right to be there,,,and conditioning is one of those ways.... The miltary does have an age factor with a lot of it`s members being baby boomers, but this has been a problem for sometime now, and yet we still mange to complete all the tasks assigned to us by our government. I`ll make it simple William the CF has Standards , can`t make them your out...standards a little higher than your typical civilian job...DND takes these standards very serious and would not allow them to put lives at risk. You made alot of assumptions....

This conflict could be won so easily if we had the right resources and the means to deliver them, as for the people all they want is peace, and will support anyone who can provide it....the terrain, tell me about it, but nothing that can,t be over come by determination of it`s troops and helo,s ...If a Taliban soldier can supply his army with a donkey, we should be able to move montains with the right resources and equipment. Yes they have and yes they do, but ask any Afghan what he values more , and it is peace and being able to provide for his family,,,provide those 2 things and suddenly the taliban is not so attractive.

Thanks, good to be back.... It was not my intention to question your support, to which i'm grateful as without it many more Canadian soldiers would be in the news...I got the impression perhaps the wrong one that a soldiers opinion was being brushed away simply because he was acting or under orders...my point is his or her opinions should have as much merit as anyones, we don't have to agree but we should take the time and listen, perhaps find out why so many soldiers really are united on this topic. Not true, Our Navy is playing a large part, for it`s size that is in other areas, and is involved in the war on terror or the American side of it, these operations don`t receive that much media coverage but they are there, even listed on the DND web site on it`s current operations...And while we are perhaps not involved in the entire book on the war on terror we are mentioned in several chapters of it... I know your a big fan of the military jerry, and i`m not questioning that, Bin Laden is a small part of the puzzle right now, nobody even knows if he is alive or dead, and yet the war continues so NATO while continueing the search it is not one of it`s main focuses....trying to get more troops or do more with what it has now is...And while i will not BS you you on operations again`st Afghan nationals, most of those operations are for good reason...or hard core taliban. Afghan nationals or not they are working for the bad guys and again`st the Afghan majority. Thats what they told Gen Currie at Vimy, and yet Canada made it work....Our nation has contributed so much to Afghan not just on the battle field....and wqe have the ability to contribute so much more if given the time and resources....And while i agree with you there is many other nations in need we are here now, give us the time and resources to finish one job at a time.

Military is having people shortages across the board, and the navy is hit hard, but so is the rest of the forces...And ya i heard alot of guys say they're not going back....year after year...yet they're back there time after time,...

William have you been watching the news at all....most of your questions have already been covered.....