Army Guy

I know your a fan of the Military Smallc , but would you say the ability to deploy 3500 troops at one time, was pulling our wieght of a G-8 nation with close to what 36 million people.

The condition of our current security appartus and all that goes with that, belongs with the Citizens of Canada, it is after all what we the people of this nation are willing to live with, and accept...want to piont a finger, start with you and me.

NO, NO, NO, Our military is exactly the way CANADIANS want it...I'm sure we've all heard the stories of Americans offering us equipment by the boat loads at reduced prices, that includes our NATO allieds , shit Germany practically gave away it's older leo tank fleet away...and yet we did not even ask "how much". No we are in our current status because Canadians want us there plain and simple...we need to own this problem...

I'll agree that a large majority of Afghans do want peace, and freedoms not available under Taliban rule. That same majority also don't like the incent casualities that are produced when engaging thier enemies...and nobody in the same postion does, however, in order to accomplish that tasking and the very nature of insurgent warfare those Casualities are very hard to control. But until someone comes up with another viaable solution, we will have to stick with this game plan....Sitting back and hoping they will sort this out themselfs is not an option, it helps no one, and we are complict in those taliban crimes for doing just that.... Your right Canadians are a fast food , fast service people and if we can not have it in 30 mins we want it for free....rebuilding a nation can not be held to the same standards, it takes time lots of time...So if we knew this going in to this project why in the hell did we stick our hands up and volunteer for it....as for the history if your suggesting that it is a mission imposiable , then i say bullshit...Canadians have a long history of accomplishing the imposiable.... Not true, re read the history of the Taliban. Would you say Germany was a complicated culture perhaps Japan, i'd say i record of rebuilding nations is pretty good, if given the time and effort to do it properly....But then again we want results yesterday....and yet NATO has made progress , large steps towards peace, but they count for what...nothing...

Are you saying that the majority of Afghans don't want this gift, or just not from NATO... So your alright with sitting back here in Canada, with all our freedoms, wealth, and "gifts" and do nothing but watch, Yes we can give them leasons on Human rights, and we can teach them how to trade responsabilty....but niether will put food on thier tables now, nor will it provide for the families now...I know it is hard to understand as Canadians as we have so much, Very few of us understand what is like to live in Afghan and the struggles and sacrifices they make just to make it through the day....And while we have some people here in Canada, that go hungry , and homeless, etc etc...they would be considered well off in Afghan.... I am postive that if you showed up in Afghan and all you had to offer was what you mentioned....you to would be on a plane , or finding yourself with a bag over your head, awaiting your fate.... So waiting is your answer....I wonder what your comments would be if you where in Afghan right now, had'nt eaten in days, slept on a dirt floor, living under the constant death threats of terrorist....would you want the west to wait...until something sorted it self out....or would you want someone to do something.... Some times a gift, our gift needs to be delivered with the force of arms...so those that need it get it...and those terrorist scumbags well they get what they deserve as well....you may not like it...but that is reality , it is how this world operates...we did not invent the rules, they did....

So slowing cutting ones head off is not torture, but execution, but listening to loud music for extended times is ....Just so i get this right it is also not torture if i take a chain saw and slowly saw off each of your limbs until you bleed out....but i can't make you listen to rap music, deprieve you of your bible, or Koran, ....No wonder this topic is so confusing.

Jaysfan. We are greatful, not only for the job, but for the honour of serving this great nation. We owe our very existance to the people of Canada that much is true and from one soldier i say "thanks" for this once in a life time oportunity. This nation has chosen a very select group of people / tax payers to provide the essential service of defending this nation and carrying out our foreign policy. This group of people live by words such as duty,honour and sacrifice. We take these words to the next level, not just to show our commitment to our Nation and it's people but because we think our nation deserve nothing more than excellance. And all we ask in return is a few momnets of your time on Nov 11, and perhaps some of your respect. nothing more.

These cuts are now taking effect on Military budgets, as DND is trying to get ahead of the curve. I just hope it's not the same as the liberals cut backs. My linkcommunities.canada.com

Apparently the Allieds felt diferently, while i'm sure at this time the allieds where very confident that the Nazi regime was in it's last spasmisms....it was far from finsihed...a couple of months of combat on 3 fronts takes a few troops to accomplish....and could have turned out some what differently if things had changed....and to prevent that and speed up the destroying of the NAZI empire it was decided to hit drsden, berlin and serveral other cities....that is made very clear in the sources i've provided you... The US Air Force Historical Division wrote a report in response to the international concern about the bombing, which was classified until December 1978.[30] This said that there were 110 factories and 50,000 workers in the city supporting the German war effort at the time of the raid.[31] According to the report, there were aircraft components factories; a poison gas factory (Chemische Fabrik Goye and Company); an anti-aircraft and field gun factory (Lehman); an optical goods factory (Zeiss Ikon AG); as well as factories producing electrical and X-ray apparatus (Koch and Sterzel AG); gears and differentials (Saxoniswerke); and electric gauges (Gebruder Bassler). It also said there were barracks, and hutted camps, and a munitions storage depot.[32] The USAF report also states that two of Dresden's traffic routes were of military importance: north-south from Germany to Czechoslovakia, and east-west along the central European uplands.[33] The city was at the junction of the Berlin-Prague-Vienna railway line, as well as the Munich-Breslau, and Hamburg-Leipzig.[33] Colonel Harold E. Cook, a US POW held in the Friedrichstadt marshaling yard the night before the attacks, later said that "I saw with my own eyes that Dresden was an armed camp: thousands of German troops, tanks and artillery and miles of freight cars loaded with supplies supporting and transporting German logistics towards the east to meet the Russians."[34] An RAF memo issued to airmen on the night of the attack said: “ Dresden, the seventh largest city in Germany and not much smaller than Manchester is also the largest unbombed builtup area the enemy has got. In the midst of winter with refugees pouring westward and troops to be rested, roofs are at a premium, not only to give shelter to workers, refugees, and troops alike, but to house the administrative services displaced from other areas. At one time well known for its china, Dresden has developed into an industrial city of first-class importance ... The intentions of the attack are to hit the enemy where he will feel it most, behind an already partially collapsed front ... and incidentally to show the Russians when they arrive what Bomber Command can do.[35] 17. The Allied-Russian interchanges that had begun in the closing months of 1944 and had become, with the passing of time, more frequent and more specific, culminated in the ARGONAUT Conferences of January-February 1945. On 4 February, President Roosevelt, Prime Minister Churchill, and Marshal Stalin, together with their foreign secretaries and military advisors, assembled at Yalta to present definitive and specific plans, and requests, for bringing the war against Germany to a victorious conclusion, by the summer of 1945, if possible (Other considerations involved in the ARGONAUT deliberations are not pertinent or relevant here). At this meeting, Marshal Stalin asked Army General Antonov, Deputy Chief of the Russian General Staff, to outline to the Conference the situation existing on the Eastern Front and to describe Russia’s plans for subsequent operations. At the conclusion of his extended presentation, General Antonov made three specific requests for Allied assistance to the Russians: 27 My link Our wishes are: a. To speed up the advance of the Allied troops on the Western Front, for which the present situation is very favorable: (1) To defeat the Germans on the Eastern Front. (2) To defeat the German groupings which have advanced into the Ardennes. (3) The weakening of the German forces in the West in connection with the shifting of their reserves to the East (It is desirable to begin the advance during the first half of February). b. By air action on communications hinder the enemy from carrying out the shifting of his troops to the East from the Western Front, from Norway, and from Italy (In particular, to paralyze the junctions of Berlin and Leipzig). c. Not permit the enemy to remove his forces from Italy. 18. It was the specific Russian request for bombing communications, coupled with the emphasis on forcing troops to shift from west to east through communications centers, that led to the Allied bombings of Dresden. The structure of the Berlin-Leipzig-Dresden railway complex, as outlined in paragraph 8 above, required that Dresden, as well as Berlin and Leipzig, be bombed. Therefore Allied air authorities concluded that the bombing of Dresden would have to be undertaken (1) in order to implement strategic objectives, of mutual importance to the Allies and the Russians, and now agreed upon at the highest levels of governmental authority, and (2) to respond to the specific Russian request presented to the Allies by General Antonov to “paralyze the junctions of Berlin and Leipzig.” My linkwww.airforcehistory.hq. Germany was still a very capable enemy, with the means to inflict damage to the allieds...for the allieds just to throw up thier arms and say, they're finished , we won't attack any more would allow germany the time and space to reorg, and fight some more....while Germany may of been down on one knee it was far from dying on it's own....

So what we have here is this fact the Military did move them after alleged evidence was found, i say alleged because nothing has been proven that abuse happened....and now i'm sure one of these prisoners will complain about the 3 rd place they are detained....until we run out of options... And the headlines read coming to a major hotel complex near you, "Taliban prisoners" , yes scumbags and scally wags who's only goal in life is to see us infidels pay for what we've done...under they're new terms of Prisoner rights programs afforded by the some of Canadians , they have to be back in these 5 star hotels before mid night....the government has cautioned the people to stay hidden in thier homes until after mid night.

I know deep down your a conservative, or want to be....as for the majority, got a better solution....

I said it needed to be extinguished, and in the larger picture it was, defeated, and while some NAZI's may of been exported, i've yet to see a 4 th riech emerge...have you... Nazism was not extinguished. Just like so many German scientists and engineers were taken by the allies to work for them, for example in America. So too the models of nazism, and fascism did not die, they too were simply exported to America. To the victor goes the spoils, as they say...

I've got a question, i think we all know that not all Germans supported the NAZI's, shit there are many that actually openly said so, and plenty more that thought the same...but kept that to themselfs for good reason.... But here is the question in regards to the entire German people, if you go along with a government or regime and don't take action for what ever reason, fear,values etc etc , are you not complict in thier actions...i mean early in the war many German's did have options, thousands took those options, ie moving to another country, etc etc...for those that remained they also had other options including taking some sort of action, i know there was consquences, including finding oneself in a concentration camp...But we already set precedance that "I was folowing orders", or "I was afraid for my life" was NOT a vaild excuse for the german population and they would be accountable for thier actions or in this case the lack of actions.... If this was the case, why is it now that we can not say most germans were complict, and infact made up a part of the NAZI war machine....Dresden was reported to have over 50,000 industrial workers, producing valuable war products, not counting the thousands providing services, related to war. In the total war concept they are considered legimate targets.... So Gabriel brings that discussion to a head, perhaps in a brutal, not very politically correct way, but none the less he's just stating the facts, and thought process of the time...And yet today we have a problem, we can not fathom a total war situation in which we as a nation would declare the total destruction of an idiology, that had gain so much fevour within a nation...NAZISM had firmly gripped Germany, Europe, and most of the free world....and needed to be extinguished. and Kill them all was the battle cry during that day, regardless of the cost...

I think we have to put into context the situation, time, and ensence of the conflict here , Yes civilian deaths are regrettable, and could be considered an act of State terrorism, however all that being said it all boils down to "Total" war and how far the state is willing to go to stop the enemy...and to what effect will the act accomplish that.. And while the act of bombing Dresden did not end the war the next day, it did suceed in it's mission, as described in the Below attachments, Germany was not in FULL COLLAPSE, the germany army may of been in full retreat, and with little hope of regaining any ground....but it was still very capable of producing thousands of allied cas per day....The NAZI regime had not yet reached it's piont of surrender...The entire piont of the war was the total victory over the NAZI's... One also has to put into contect that dresden was one of the cities that were bombed during this time frame....all where targeted for many reasons, just to produce civilain cas is not one of them.... My linkwww.airforcehistory.hq. My linken.wikipedia.org/wiki/_II

Thanks topaz, i just wanted everyone to know that soldiers are not making big fat Danager pay bonuses, that we are comfortable with our pay as it is...besides i'd much rather keep my honor and intrgrity intact than recieve a politicians pension.

I agree with you ,He is in a postion of power, respect, and the students where taking thier cue off of him, He could of atleast explained his reasons to the students why he does not follow the tradtion of rememberance....I'd be curious to know what the School policy is for rememberance day. I mean what would it have costed him, 2 mins of his time...

Not much, but to be fair i'll explain all the bonues to put it into context. Danger pay is computed into something call operational allowaneces. which are divided into 3 parts. Operations Foreign Service Premium; it's a pionts based system for every month your spend on operations out of country you get 1 piont....the scale goes from 1 to 169 or more....it starts off at 701 cdn dollars and tops out at 1454 cdn dollars...please note to get the top rating one must have spent 169 months or more on operations within his carear... Hardship Allowance; The intent of the Hardship Allowance (HA) is to compensate for the living conditions existing at a specific post. it's based on a rating between 0 and 6 and is assigned by NDHQ, every 6 months....to give you an example out in the FOB's it was set at level 4 , and we where sleeping in trenches and bunkers at the time....and normally works out to around 2 to 500 Cdns dollars Risk allowance The intent of the Risk Allowance (RA) is to compensate for the risks associated with a specific post. It's based on a rating scale from 0 to 4....Out in the FOB's it was at risk level III Works out to be around 3 to 400 dollars So to answer your question while we are payed a risk allowance, and it is fairly low, on avg each soldier is paid on the low end of the scale approx 1200 dollars, to 2400 dollars for being on tour.... So yes your pay increases accordingly.... Actually if you where to exclude the admin and support trades, you'd find you be looking at on the army side about 10 to 11 k in the combat trades...for what it is worth it would shape the numbers drastically... It maybe to some admin and support trades, however most combat trades will spend on a 20 to 25 year carear, appox 84 mths months away on operations or about 7 years...on avg thats 7 tours...i know guys with 12 to 15 tours, and some with less than 5 but those are very rare today. Filing papers may not be dangerous, but lets compare a say live fire ex with over 500 tired , exhausted troops armed with automactic wpns..., or driving a 25 ton veh with no lights with no moon, at excessive speeds with night vision gear on...or being Danager close (only 300 meters from the objective,) with live arty and tank fire raining down on it....then comes the "DISMOUNT", DISMOUNT""DISMOUNT" and you come out of the back of your LAV praying that the Arty and tank boys have started to lift thier fire, or creep it to the back of the objective....Anything we would do in war time is exericised dozens of time before we do it on the enemy....and for combat trades thats dozens of times each year....I still rather go fishing , and you'd make alot more money doing it...

I just wanted to shead some more light on this whole argument on dangerous jobs.... Lets keep in mind that in 2002 we were engaged in combat, with US forces suffered 4 deaths not sure if we are counting wounded, but 32 is the count. From 2003 to 2005 we were in Kabul, basically doing what the germans and french are doing now, patrols etc...little combat per say....in those years we suffer another 4 deaths, approx 57 wounded... We then transfer to the south in late 2005 until present... 2006,34 deaths, 300 plus wounded. 2007 28 deaths 300 plus wounded 2008,27 deaths 300 plus wounded 2009 27 deaths 300 plus wounded It should be noted that the number serving through that year was only 5500 troops up until 2008 when that number climbed to 6000, and in 2009 it climbed to 6400 troops....so to get a true look into the stats those are the numbers you have to work with....I guess you'd have to ask yourself would you rather be fishing or going out on patrol. Now my math is bad and i'm sure you guys will sort me out but with 34 deaths out of 5000 would equate into 680 deaths out of every 100,000

That depends, there is always a but...once your trained the military wants to employ you, so it would depend on the trade you chose and the unit your deployed with...units with a high operation tempo often members don't have time to persue higher education...but the military never frowns on upgrading your education, in fact it's encouraged...Yes they have to have be relevent to some degree, not mush call for say womens studies or interior decorating....but keep in mind the military has hundrards of trades, and officers programs that encompass just about everything you can think off from being in the Infantry, to space sciences, comms and sats....Memebrs can also have a good portion of thier education payed for...either in the ranks Pte to CWO, or in the officers programs, the but to all this is you have to pass the courses you take...and they will refund a good portion of it...fail and it's on your dime... There is plenty fo oppotunities for advance, and if your good at what you do the shy is the limit...The military does a good job at pushing them and you'll be challange more than you could imagine, keeping in mind our operational tempo is the highest it has been since the Korean war....promotion and annual raises will answer your money questions...like i said it is a very delicate balancing act doing the job and getting you the training you need to progress....it's the most challanging thing i've attemted in my life...and you'll here that across the board...those not happy in their current jobs often change entire carears keep in mind there is hundrds of chioces as long as you score well enough in your aptitude tests... Language traing is a must for progression, all training is free and given to those that require it for progression...other training is also free, and as required...including higher education provided you pass your courses.... I've given you the basics your best bet is to vist the DND recruiting web site or see DND's other web sites, to give you a more detailed discription....can't find them i'll get them for you....The defense team is always looking for new people ....thats my best recruiting pitch...iyou should also know that the Military pays out huge signing bonues for some trades or postions...worth looking into.... And while i've pitched you my best pitch, Military life is not for everyone..it's very regimental, very unbending in it's rules and regulations, and you will be held to a higher standard than any job in the civilian world, you'll be subjected to serveral kinds of laws, starting with Canada's criminal code, military law, plus all the conventions we've signed on to as a nation....screw up here and your in for a rough ride....There is no surprises in the military, if you sign up for combat you'll know very quickly what that entials....sign up for something else and you'll know exactly what it does....you won't wake up one day on the battle field and say...i did'nt sign up for this....your training starting in basic is designed to weed those out... I hope that answers your question....

One must first know the symptoms of a disease before one can treat it...If one knows the cost not just in lives but on everything a generation does one might not be so easliy swayed towards the war option...it also sets you up for the quest into the why ? now it's not so boring is it... Besides as long as man has a quest for power, money, postion, and still holds favour for greed,dominance over others....we shall have war... Rememberance day is not about educating you about war or it's reasons behind it...it's about rememberance of the cost, about listening to the names of the fallen, not forgetting thier sacrifice for king and country. it's to give us pause and think, they where all good men and women, who made the ultimate sacrifice so others may not have to....for our current freedoms and rights...everything we value today as Canadians is due to them... I think we owe it to them, after all it's just one and half hours out of your time a year....we cry, we salute, we remember, we drink a beer , go home....

Grant it the history of those two contries will give us some insight into who we are or what stock we came from. But you can not include thier history in with ours...it was done under British, of french flags and under thier governance....they (those) involved may have later became Canadians, but thier actions before that, are part of France and British history... Those actions taken again'st the the aborignal peoples of NFLD where done well before Canada as a nation was even thought of...Kind of like blaming my kids for something my grand father did...Those men and women involved in those tradgic crimes are where this blame needs to be placed...not on a nation that was not even developed yet.... We have those freedoms that allow you to find the truth, even to spread it or correct histroy if you can prove it...besides to get the whole picture one should try and read it from both sides, getting a clearer picture.... Not our history British and french history....

perhaps 25- 30 years ago, but not in todays army, not a chance, everyone has to taken a written and oral test or interview, which tests not only IQ levels but slots you into a trade ....if you could not read or write...one would not score very well...and with todays standards , like i said before even the Infantry has a good number of it's recruits already with degrees... Must have had something going for him as ships gunnery stills need alot of math, understanding ballistics, mechanics of the gun, .....

Pay scales are available on DND web site, or recruiting page, The starting wage for a recruit is 30 k, over the next 3 to 4 years they will recieve gradual pay raises, IE after recruiting you procede to trades training complete that you get a pay raise small, but it's a raise....every year there is an incremental raise once again small but it's a raise, the Largest pay raise a soldier will get is from Pte to Cpl....almost 12 k jump...for non spec trades, spec trades the jump is alot larger.... That being said the next rank level is from Cpl to Mcpl the difference here is approx 65- 100 dollars a month for non spec trades, ie more resposability but small pay raise... I got this info off the Toronto sanition web site, and while the majority are proable on that lower end, i'm sure thier is plenty on the higher scale as well...I know it shocked me as well...that being said here in Gagetown NB my garbage guy is making a cool 22 dollars an hour, still a decent wage.... Federal government workers do make a very decent wage, some with no speciality skills what so ever...are making well beyond my wage... I like to say again , not many soldiers complain about wages, as one of the highest paid militaries in the world, we do all right...but there should be some common sense placed on how we pay people.... perhaps the private sector needs to catch up. Todays recruits have a higher education level than say just 15-20 years ago, when high school was the norm, now basic inf have degrees, alot of them have serveral...and join the Inf as a starting block, and gradually work themslefs and thier education to a higher placed job, or trade. Got a question ask.

You should ask that same question to those school kids that have visted some of our war cemetaries in Europe, and toured the actually battlefields in france, such as vimy...or talked to anyone that has walked the ground on some of the NAZI concentration camps....it does lead into other things , more questions,more discusion, and a deeper understanding...it's not so dry and boring, when you can see thousands of Canadian grave markers, or smell the lingering death of the ovens....and while this oportunity does not eist to all our school children, there are plenty of vidios, movies, pictures to drive the same piont home...maybe we can finally get a generation that will not know war...

I think it is because we don't spend enough time educating the latest generation, All the vets i talked to this year, express this concern, in fact the legion spent more than usual doing just that going to the schools and telling them there stories...The Military also hit alot of schools but history takes more than just one 30 min vist once a year... The Vets are worried about what is going to happen when thier gone. who is going to keep the torch burning...who is going to remember...