Army Guy

The Hurt locker is a good movie, it gives the viewer a small taste of what it's like to operate in a insurgent type conflict, always on gaurd, always on a higher plane of awareness, paying attention to details it's what keeps a soldier alive... As for depicting EOD specisits to the letter, not entirely sure as i've never had any dealings with US army EOD guys....i did however watch our guys in action many times, and while they mostly blew shit up in place , i did not see any of the adreniline junkie stuff like should i cut the blue wire or red....but in say that i seen those guys dig up serveral hundred pound IEDs with the bufflo , a special armoured Eng veh designed for IED's it has a small crane like arm with a pitch fork on the end...And while they are encased in heavy armour, blast proof glass, it still takes balls of steel to poke and prode a large IED knowing it's going to go off.... So i'd say most of these guys have a "different "personality" bordering on insane, or atleast a little crazy....and while there is a strict SOP to be followed, everyone of them have their own stlye....not many people question it as nobody else wants to do it....Like BC said not many old EOD guys in the army... I found the movie to be entertaining , but i would not recommned doing so with a bunch of army guys as they will pick it apart...some thing s where unreal like dragging in 8 , 40 kg shells with one hand, he's good but not that good....but overall i thought they did a good job... We where soldiers was an excellent movie, as was Saving Private Ryan, Band of Brothers,each for it's own reasons and while the Hurt locker does not make it into this catogory....it is a good movie...

Yes it is , but as i have tried to explain to you where did DND break that convention....Others have said they where warned, BS....we suspected it was happening in other districts...but had none happen in our AO (area of ops) all we had was rumours...and you can not start an inter-national incident on a rumour...can you...imigine the press headlines when a bunch of Canadian soldiers arrive at a local police station to pick up all prisoners because we had heard a rumour that someone was getting tortured... If you can see this was not torture but a beating...and a local Afghan problem....As for the convention side of things we did everything by the book, we found out about the beating and picked up the detainee ASAP....Reports where filled, what was said in those reports who knows...who read them who knows, did they discribe it as a beating or torture who knows...we 'll have to wait...

( men were charged 5 recieved sentences, 4 where aquited, out of those 4 3 later released, and the LtCol of the regt who was just in the news is just getting promoted this year, so his carear had stopped until now.... Once the Regt was on the ground from Somolia and the CO was removed, the New CO came in with orders to clean the Regt up....he did this, once again a fluery of releases followed, some forced some just retired as the game was over....before his term of duty was up all the bad apples where gone, from the forces or the Regt....so when they did disband the regt some 5 years later, it was an entirely new unit....filled with soldiers that wanted to be there soldiers that had worked hard at restoring thier reputation... As for the disbanding the Regt, and that punishment....you fail to understand that this unit was Canada's only elite status unit....some would say it was just a Para regt, but it went beyond that, most of it's members had ohter training Such as US ranger tabs (pretty common in the Regt), had completed courses from British SAS, SBS, US green berets, US navy Seals, dozens of other elite training from some of the finest units available in the world ....very expensive training....All pissed into the wind...Sure some of these guys form the bases of our current JTF 2 troops, but most just retired, no longer wanting to serve.... This regt has a long and colorful history , all retired in disgrace....including past serving and present serving members...and in the military this dishonor carries alot of wieght,.... Since the regt provided a stepping stone for Army guys to progress in thier training, recieving regular Infantry training at the BN level, as you become better you'd join the Airbourne which furthered your training....to the piont you would be ready for the next stop our new JTF 2 or spec ops guys....on disbandment that was slashed no longer would our military have that training ground to improve our soldiers....and while today CSOR now fills that role, it has lost alot of it's seasoned soldiers....something that can not be replaced... disbanding the regt is not like just closing a GM plant in ontario....it was like closing ALL of GM down, losing an entire link in that chain....and that is a punishment....and a great loss..

Eyeball i think you and i both know that is not going to happen, Canada would have to pony up for it's own defense and that means lots of tax dollars .... just not going to happen... There is no such thing as a just war, or a war where we don't have to shelve our morals and values until it's finished...Canadians should have known that from the start, War sucks nothing of any value ever becomes of it...and the first Casulities are our morals and values....

Are we playing word games or are we admitting there are two standards , A canadian one in which we charge police officer with assualt and punish them for thier actions not the entire dept, or in fact the entire government.........or the Afghanistan standard where the police officer get off and we hold our soldiers, military, CSIS, Dept corrections, RCMP, and entire riening government for torture.... NO, i will publically admit i have an asshole as well as an opinion.....and while screaming may be a slightly to strong a word , i don't think it's all in my head...

It's first hand knowledge of a beating....not torture, not an inter national incident, a couple of police officers went to far, an internal Afghan government issue........Another piece of the puzzle we are missing, what what happened at the police station to provoke the police into this action....we know nothing....instead we assume the worse and start pionting fingers....right now you guys have blamed Canadian soldiers, the entire military , CDS, CSIS, Mr Mcakay, PM who else are we missing....shit we don't even know who to blame so lets do em all in..... We've already covered this already, your right you don't need any knowledge of any topic to have an opinion, some one once told me opinions are like assholes everyone has one....but before you just join the crowd screaming hang them all i would have thought you'd do some research on the matter.... Had anyone done any reseach into the somalia event they'd soon find out that the 2 dozen or so people responsable for this event got what was coming to them....to punish the remaining 900 was just spite...a kick in the nuts only because most had failed to inform themslevess about the topic...as for the policitical masters of the time....took all the facts into question studied the problem and made the right choice....tell me the billions of dollars spent training these soldiers to an elite standard was not all thrown into the wind....so they could stand on top of the hill and say "see we are the masters" don't make us look bad again....

. I see, well explain it to me if it's not an attack then what...Your pissed because one poster likes what i posted.... I see troops arn't allow to use thier experience or knowledge of the military in a debate or to make political pionts, thats just for everyone else to do...fair enough...but once you drag the military troops into a conversation and it does not put them in a good light then Yes i will vioce my opinion and try to debate the differences....And in this post the conversation has swayed many times to slight the troops....policy is not the main topic being discussed although it is the main topic....

I've read my stuff over twice now , i might be a little slow, but show me where i said i was aware of the torture.....and wrote about it....

I think you misread my post I said the only thing they did "not" do is phone the CDS, it is "not" part of policy or SOP's, We had hear "rumours" that there was torture going on yes, not in our district or prison nor at our police detachment we used So lets dispell that right now....Is that what we are down to now is romours....do we make foreign policy decissions on RUMOURS, i hope not.... As for Gen Hillier said or did, you ask him....oh wait you don't trust him he's a CDS ...I trust him, and will continue to trust him until it's proven....

No your right I was not handed over by soldiers to be tortured....neither was this man we are talking about unless you have proof of that.... As for Zero first hand experience with topic at hand, i've served 3 tours in Afghan and i've handed over detainees to to our Miltiary police and Afghan local police.... Was at at the scene when this happened NO, never claimed to be.... I read your link it's interesting, But if your asking me do i believe in duty, honor, etc then yes i do, nothing wrong with those morals or values is there....do i believe i'm better than you, NO....i've never stated that nor was it my intention....in fact i've always thought the exact opposite ...up until the late 1990's I've always thought that regular Canadian civilians thought they where better than soldiers, and looked down on us as just dirty grunts, dirty filthy, fowled mouth grunts...that where barely tolerated unless someone needed help... today being a soldier will get you a beer and some conversation....nothing else....And while i've stated how many years of service i have , i'm proud of that, it's not bragging , nor stating i'm better than you or anyone else....so i don't really understand your attack... PS i'm not retired but still serving...

As does Afghanistan, they to have domestic laws in dealing with thier own police and thier actions as well....Some how here in Canada it has grown into a major national concern...And i would say you had a case if OUR soldiers had handed over a detainee and had requested or knew he would be tortured....but thats not the case....in fact our soldiers followed protocal and once they found out he was beaten, they retreived him ASAP....and filled a report detailing the beating...the only thing they did not do is phone the CDS and inform him.... This procedure is followed hundreds of times a month....it orginated at our foreign affairs office and put into place by all depts in Afghan....DND captures Prisoners, logs them, then hands them over to local police for furtherance to a National prison...Only this time things went wrong....Afghan police beat this indiv...This portion of the problem needs to be solved with Afghanistan....not here in Canada.... But here we convert a beating into torture, and then state we should have known better, because we have been warned....that it might happen...i say might happen because there is no proof to state it does...if there was someone should have been charged, but was not..... But when parliment decided to stop shipping Detainees to the US run facilities and put in place shipping them to Afghan run prisons...Did we not know "then" they might be tortured....bullshit...we knew there may be a chance, shit ship them to italy they may be tortured as well...But we as a nation took the easy way out instead of creating our own detention facility and decided to ship them to Afghan ....SO be fucking it....lets own our decision and move on.....So while we would like to dump this at harpers feet ....i'm sure a minority government does not decide on an issue of this size by it's self....and parliment would have to decide on this issue for it to pass...

I think it's very revelant to this case, it is after Canadians here that are screaming for an inquiry, there seems to be a double standarded ...here in Canada this case would have resulted in charges of assault, police officers fired or suspended from duty, the story would fade into the sunset....But because we are talking about Afghanistan we want to take it to another level...we want charges of torture laid...we want to hold them and our government to standards we don't even apply to ourselfs.... And your right you don't have to have any experiance on any topic to have a view on it...But it helps to put things into context , to understand why things may or may not have been done, would you not agree... It was not my intention to insult you, but rather piont out that because it had happened in the past does not mean we can paint all past or future CDS or for that matter any senior figure, or regular man with the same brush....each man or women should be based on thier own character, morals or values....and not thier peers or those that have served in the past would you not agree.... And while your opinion is true that everyone is certainly capable of being dishonest, and trust no one then sir...we have a problem, every postion and job comes with a set of rules and regulations that are designed to keep us on the right track, for the most part....everyone is capable of jumping off those tracks...but sooner or later your going to have to trust someone.... Perhaps , but actions speak louder than words... Really go back though all the post in this thread, just add up how many times Mackay and co are mentioned , and then add up how many times Canadian Soldiers are mentioned....some of you keep saying it's about our government ....and yet when you flip though the posts they are hardly mentioned....

How many cases of torture are before our courts today ? in relation to a bunch of guys beating the crap out of one man...could this be because they are charged with assualt....could it be our courts have it all wrong.... I'm not going to play this game, i'm sure if you read the post agin you'll find i did'nt bring it up you did, and if you got that impression that was not my intent. We've been through this before, this time lets be honest with each shall we...everyone who assumes the office of the CDS is human and is capable of anything, as recent news has pionted out even Cols are capable or rape and murder...and to put it on a different level so are senior managers of Canadian Chartered Banks. the inter net is full of examples ranging from incest to murder to white collar crimes....but i've yet to come out publicly on this forum and say Hey we should watch Born free becuase he is one of them....and he is capable of it because historically they've done it before.... I have no problem with inquiries if there has been a crime or misdeed done....i just can't see it in this case...And while those that where charged or retired in the somolia affair got thier just rewards inquires make everyone in the forces stand up and fear the out come...they are never just nor do they dispense justice that fits the crime.... On the soldiers side of the house, why is it we are always on the defensive when it comes to our actions...Is it because we don't have the citizens trust, because we are war mongers , we want to rule the world.....you support us but don't trust us....that is the impression i get....this is not the first time we have had to defend ourselves in this conflict, remember the Taliban insurgent claiming he'd been roughed up....all it took was one univeristy prof to take up that cause and poof it's got national attention, with people demanding to get to the bottom of it , screaming heads are going to roll....mean while serveral inquiries into the state of of equipment and vehs being used through our this mission, shared the same page with the comics...ok maybe not that far back but close...Canadian soldiers where dieing...and the public sat around and did what exactly....a Taliban insurgent claims to have been roughed up and Game on every one wakes up, hockey games are interupted....red buttons where being pressed across the nation.... So yes shit happens but when it does it all needs to be treated with the same vigor as accusations from the enemy does...

No your right according to the UN defination of torture, here it is... but it could also fit under assualt. Similar to the United States, there are many different ways in which an assault can occur. Generally an assault occurs when a person directly or indirectly applies force intentionally to another person. An assault can also occur when a person attempts to assault another or threatens to do so without the consent of the other person.... Taking pictures is SOP for identification, also to proove that prisoner was not abused on our end....and to also prove the staus of the prisoner just prior to hand over....this policy came about from the first bunch of changes remember the Taliban prisoner claiming he was beat up by Canadian soldiers...the claim by Ottawa univerisity prof which was proven false...but got everyone panties in a knot....Ya we call them cover your ass changes...and not cover your ass from the enemy changes....cover your ass from your own countrymen changes...It's nice to be loved though.... No it is a club, one that not everyone can join, or play....and while it may be a job to you, to us in the club it is a life stlye choice....I guess your right, about group punishment, this group numbered about a dozen....and the disbandment effect thousands of serving and past serving soldiers , some who had given thier lives for this very same regt....It was disbanded which in our world is a great dishonor...not a slap in the face but serveral kicks to the nuts.... As for the military being no different than any other employer , i guess you don't get it...we are different and leave it at that....Your right the boss has a right to do anything within reason...close regts down, fire , hire anyone he wants...order the military to take away freedoms and liberties....but before the Boss did all that one would think he done it for the people and what was in the best interest of the country....not just because he could...or it served his party at the time....

In legal terms there is a big difference... I won't play that card "you wer'nt in the military" if you don't lecture me on Truth, duty and honor, i've been living it for almost 30 years now... In your statement you had said One CDS had done it, so they are all capable of doing it....in fact you did paint all the leadership within the Forces with the same brush....Thats after i pionted out that the current chain of command was still junior officers when the somolia incident happend....how does that translate into todays leaders....and what does that say about your friend the Col, i mentioned that because the forces has suffer a black eye inregards to another Col, who raped and murdered some girls....does that translate all Cols are murders and rapists...we both know it does not, nor does it prove that it will not happen again..... My piont is there are a great many soldiers within our military that does live and and die living up to truth duty honor....and there will always be those that push that aside for thier own good....the last CDS and the current CDS are soldiers...of high standing and are examples of truth duty and honor.... So my question is how does a beating of a taliabn suspect translate into a closer inspection of the CDS and military....when it was it's own members that a) corrected the situation....and went on TV and corrected misinformation he had given out the day before....when if they are as bad as everyone suspects...why not just phone the Afghan police and tell them to make this guy disappear, or collect him themsleves and make him disappear....and then why go on TV and correct the misinformation....and go again'st party stance....why risk it all thats the question i ask...

Really....I've seen many beatings or fights in my time, never have i had anyone discribed them as as torture.... I've had my nose broken in a fight sorry i'm confused when someone tortured me in a bar room brawl.... and i would not compare the two, torture is design to inflict the max amount of pain, with min effort....Beatings does not = torture....those policemen lost thier cool and beat this guy....not for any info or intel but out of frustration...if they wanted to torture this guy they would have done so....and not with a shoe... But it's easy to condemn someone or something when we don't have all the info.... And you know it was suspected before hand as fact....I've yet to see any proof of that, do you have a link... SO you agree that mass punishment is the way to go...Of course you also know that those responsiable where charged,retired or posted out of the regt....and 3 years later when the regt was disbanded it was an entirly new unit...Esprit do corp was not contaminated, the entire Regt was under new mangement, and hundreds of soldiers or bad apples where retired or posted....leaving behind professional soldiers who had busted thier asses off to improve the regt and regain it's reputation....NO sir had nothing to do with Esoprit de corp....and everything with short sightedness of our government of the day, Canadians, and military brass that disliked elite troops....nothing more... So now your saying we should hold todays military responsable for yesterdays mistakes, how far do we go back....and do we hold anyone else to the same standard...such you and me, and our ancesters... Of course we know this as fact because of what , someone has been convicted, thier currently awaiting trail, or they've been arrested....or there is no proof and therefore here say.....do you have a link...

I used that example to explain the difference between beating and torture...they are not the same.... I've asked this question before, what misconduct ? they handed over setainees to local Afghan police, this policy has been set up by our government , Not our military.....once they found out that the police beat the prisoner they took the action required of them by law and retrieved the detainee...No misconduct, but rather soldiers taking the correct course of action.... Historical precidence are you kidding me....Those involved in the somolia affair where charged and dealt with by Canadian law and military law....you can not hold an entire organization to task for the actions of a few individuals....Oh wait this is Canada we are talking about of course we can, hence why the entire Regt was disbanded....and we not only believe in mass punishment by practice it as well, made very clear by your accusation.....Those in Command now were only junior officers at the time of the Somolia affair.... How far back do you want to go for this Historical precedence....i mean since we got the paint brush out why not paint todays military with other wrongs, How about War crimes yes Canadian soldiers have been charged with War crimes in Korea, WWII, and WWI ...And is it just Soldiers we limit this incrediable precedence to....why not every day Canadians as well, i mean our early ancesters killed maimed and hunted down what ever they felt like to settle this country....does that mean you and me carry that weight forever... I don't recall ever saying i wanted it swept under the carpet...I think those Afghan police at the very most are guilty of beating a prisoner under they care and control, is that bad, Yes it is...Is it an inter national incident like you guys are playing it out to be "NO".....Thats what makes it wrong... Once again you've painted everyone with the same brush....your entitled to your opinion, you have that right, but you must be prepared to defend that opinion if you've gone public with it...as you've done...and i say your opinion of our Military leaders is based on Bullshit....it would be the same as me saying all black guys have large dicks......based on myth and no proof And confirms what very little you know about our military....Don't get me wrong i'm not pissed off, i'm a little disappionted.

Does the Taliban use terror to accomplish thier goals, or to influence the population ? the UN and Canada has already defined the defination of who is a terrorist....you can't be both.... According to the conventions they do, terrorists/ and some others are not afforded any of the protection the convention provides...with exception that they must be treated humanily....everyone is also afforded basic human rights...There is no transfer of civil jurisdiction of rights, as it would or could conflict, IE Canadian rights are very different than Afghan civil rights. Canadian rights stop outside of our border for normal Canadians , however they do govern what and how we act in other countries as a Canadian contingent, Acting under our flag....but have no bearing on other nationalities in other countries....of course you knew that....If an enemy terrorist combatant is captured by Canadian forces all he is entitled to is to be treated humanily...He will recieve his due process through the Afghan system....IE a court hearing to determine his status, then charged with any crimes and another court hearing to determine his guilt.. Your right handing over prisoners that are knowily going to be tortured is again'st the convention.... Art 3 does not apply to terrorists.... No it's not....It must be proven in a court that detainees where in fact tortured , if this is done then all future transfers would be illigal, alligations are to be investagated but are not legal grounds to halt transfers....a country may decide to halt or delay transfers pending results but legally transfers can continue until proven....remember alliagations are a daily occurance...we could be locking them up in disneyland and the complaints would still continue....With all the checks and balences in place by all the different players involved i doubt very much the complaints hold any water....

So you'd agree he may of been misinformed....It's not uncommon persons in leadership postions to rely on suborinates to keep them informed about topics at hand, and although this is a very serious topic , i'm sure it does not rank at the top of the list for the CDS....And if he was lying then why just the next day on national news correct himself...going again'st party policy, to cover his ass ? or was he doing his job ? everyone assumes he's covering his ass, because of his postion and ranking in the food chain... Which is why i have so much problem with this tread, to much assuming....no proof Big piont, A criminal down town toronto is roughed up, beaten, can you see the headlines the next morning, "Toronto police torture a man in custody"....can you imagine the inter national response to an action carried out by a few local policemen.....And while i do not condone the action of those local Afghan police officers we don't know the entire story on what drove them into doing it... What i mean by that is these cops are part of the local community, this terrorist that was beaten with a "shoe" may have been responsiable for one of hundreds of terrorist events that killed or maimed dozens daily...I've seen torture victims up close and trust me there is alot better instruments of torture than a simple shoes....and in this country those that practice it know it well, and would not pick a shoe as there primary instrument.... I know if i had access to such a man , and he had killed any of my family, friends etc etc i'm not sure i could say with 100% certainity i would'nt beat the crap out of him as well...So once again we assume it was torture ....because we've been warned so many times before....we automatically fear the worse...and then we paint all of them with the same brush....everyone of those Afghan police and army and government are torturers in waiting....much like everyone would paint all toronto cops ..... Can any one here say for sure nothing has been done, The fact that DND policy has changed atleast half a dozen times in regards to Detainees, they've changed the entire way they are handled, turned over, and dozens of other things....DND does inspect regularly Afghan prisons, in fact Dept of corrections (from Canada) has personal in those prisons, working with and training Afghan nationals...thats right down to prison gaurds to the warden....RCMP officers work with some of the local police...And foreign affairs also has people on the ground performing checks and balances...So this is not just a DND thing this is a Canadian government thing, with each responable for a small part in the big picture..... Not saying it's perfect, there are small holes in it, but it is improving to the piont now where a prisoner report of abuse is looked at right away....but i want to add this, it's also Taliban SOP to make these alligations , just like it is a POW responsibilty to escape....we must balance it all... Although DND does inspect it is not thier main function, it falls under many of the sub depts i mentioned before...Human rights watch and red cross, are free to inspect when they wish but thier reports are not going to be our governments main focus, unless they find something gravely wrong...

Actually Morris is right...The convention is sub divided into many parts, first you have to find the part that suits this situation ....IE you can't be using the part of the convention dealing with the sick and wounded and apply it to a terrorist organization.... That being said all the conventions do have a common theme , that all Prisoners, detainees or what ever the politically correct word of the day is...all must be treated humanily...no where does it state they must be afforded the same rights and freedoms as our criminals....it states humanly.... It was the UN that introduced and confirmed that the Taliban and others combatants in Afghan be classified as terrorists, and are not afforded any rights under the convention...with one exception, they will be treated humanily...and since this topic is about Canada where have we not done that...

Are you sure he lied about it, or was misinformed, or did not have all the facts at the time...He did after all make the correction, i mean lets give the guy some credit, his correction was not holding the party line but based on facts that where presented to him after the fact.... I want to clear something about torture and abuse they are not the same, there is a clear difference between them...So while the CDS has admitted this detainee in question was abused while in Afghan police custody, he also made it clear once the Canadian military found out about the abuse they retrieved the detainee ASAP...keeping in line with our Laws and conventions we have signed... As for being warned that torture does happen your right we as a nation have been warned, hundreds of Taliban prisoners have claimed to have been tortured, under care and control of the Afghan government...Foreign affairs and Dept of corrections have policies in place along with personal, and a long list of check lists items they perform to ensure that any Candian captured detainee is not tortured or abused while in Afghan custody...and while this system is not infalable there has not been any hard proof that it has happened...

Sorry guys been away for a little bit. I've read most of the posts.... Nicky but i'm having a hard time trying to figure out what exactly did the CDS admit to. Could you bring me up to speed please....I've read serveral of the interviews the CDS gave in ref to this topic and i can't find anything that would compromise any laws or conventions.... From what i've read Canadians took into custody a suspected Taliban insurgent, then handed him over to the Afghan police who beat him....Canadian military found out about it and took him back...Did i miss anything...

I actually stopped enforcing the hospital bed making when my 3 year old had asked me for some help....His sisters had asked one of my Sgt's at the time how to make the beds tighter....he had told them to use heavy yarn and sow the blankets underneath the bed so the looked like a shoe lace...once that was done all you had to do was tighten them like your shoes....anyways my 3 year was having problems and his sisters who normally would help him were out...so he asked me...imagine a 3 year old with hospital style bed...what was i thinking....all i knew was what the ARMY had taught me, it worked there but did not transcend into the raising kids catogory very well.... BTW my cooking skills have since improved, and now i know how to make grilled chesse sandwichs, and hambuger helper....and my wife threw out my only copy of revielle with the bugles and bagpipes which i used to play on the tape deck first thing in the morning....but i think that was more of a request from my neibors wife than her idea....as the walls in the PMQ's are very thin , and everyone was up at 6 am when i was home.......she has since purchased alarm clocks for everyone....lets just say things around my home are alot less army than they used to be... I will agree kids are one of our best assets, and regardless of how bad they sometimes get, all it takes is a small pout on or a tear, and dads heart turns to mush...and my girls have that down to a science.... i would want to do it again alone anyways , but i am glad i did do it....atleast my kids have some stories to tell thier kids....

Everyone is getting letters or e-mails, or coming home to an empty house, or apartment, and a dear john letter tacked on to the door.... ....I think what put it all into perspective for me was when my wife deployed to Afghan , and i was left at home with the kids...don't get me wrong i love my kids to death...but i would not want to do that again...nor do my kids want that to happen again either, 7 mths of kraft dinner and pancakes...on top of pizza and burgers ...they loved it the first 2 weeks, but now we can't even drive by a Micky d's without gagging...So when my wife said my last deployment was my last...i had no problems not sticking up my hand....but i was lucky my wife is in the military and has a greater understanding of the military than civilians wifes do....which makes it all that more harder...they where not kidding when they say behind every great soldier is a greater wife...One of the hardest jobs on the planet.... I've often said i'd rather be out soldiering than stuck in a house with 3 young kids....I consider myself to be in excellent shape, those kids run me ragged, i mean at 9 pm when the last one was down for the count , i was completely exhausted....praying to god" get me through this and i'll do what ever it is you want" I also consider myself old army, and can bark out orders that make grown men cry....I'm regimented to the degree all my kids knew how to make a hospital sytle bed you could bounce a quarter off of...morning inspections, checking beds for correctness, mouths and teeth brushed, dressed properly, all while standing to attention....I thought i had a grip on the whole situation....to easy i thought....I'm a seasoned Sr NCO in the army, been to battle 3 times ....well them little bastards (god bless them) can smell weakness a mile away, you go soft just once...and poof you've lost control....nothing in my entire life or training perpared me for the next 7 months.....After we wifes return for Afghan it took my wife just one week to have ALL of us back into a routine that everyone could live with....as for me i'm sticking with soldiering, and will never again say anything bad about a military wife...

I'm not a navy guy,so i'm basing this on my opion and a little research... and while we did get a somewhat deal on those subs we purchased from the mother country, it, been 10 years in the making,and not much to show for it .... with a few more to go...before we can use them for any intended purpose...and when you add up all the repair costs and the time in which they are not in use, And the fact that at the time new Subs were not on the radar, in fact they still are not on the radar in regards to equipment that is much more needed... Today there are other options available for much better tech , one of the main arguments that pro sub purchasers have made is having subs keeps Canada in the sub bussiness and we don't lose any of that experiance...true enough but we could have still maintained our sub program with the old subs, still maintained our limited sov patrols, and waited....and maintained our NATO sub training , and providing the US with diesels to target practice on.... Germany has a very nice sub the type 212A and the 214 made up of the latest tech , even with an alternative fuel cell tech....Germany has had some problems with it's other european sub manufacture and is resulting in the closing of that facility...that combined with greece refusing to except already built 214 for it's navy....sounds like an oportunity...or a door atleast opened a crack... one to upgrade into a state of the art dies? AIP sub,.... next getting into AIP tech at the ground floor could be benificial for Canada, it's green, and if perfected could be a cheaper solution than say Nuk power subs....Germans are looking for another country to partner up with in regards to building Subs...we've all but lost our ship building experience , this could spark more benifits for canada's failing ship building industry....albiet only a few nations are lined up to purchase the 212 , 214 subs....we could atleast build our own, here...it's an option not the best option , but it ranks right up there with buying rusted hulls off the British....