Army Guy

I would have thought that a better example of power though fear and intimidation would have seen the Kid drop his crack at the end of the driveway as he would have been terrified to gwet caught inside by the old man with it....here it shows the kid really did not fear him and took the risk anyways.... I think a better example would have been in the days when the mafia ruled most of NA, or perhaps, stalin in mother Russia...Hilter and germany...

I read though some of these posts and can only shake my head, how quick we are to piont out blame with our twisted fingers , spitel flying from our mouths....But it is our national past time, better than a hockey game (for some) always looking to blame some nation, groups , or individual for our problems... It's hard to accept just the facts that this accused is Canadian, one of us , and will always be Canadian just like us...Yes he was in the Military, had been for years had an accomplished carear up until now, recruited out of the masses of other Canadians, once again making him one of us...does that make the crime any worse than it is, would it have been different had he been a construction worker, plumber, doctor, lawyer...No, the crime would have been just as hideous... How policitics even plays in this entire shit show is beyond me, do we do that with every criminal ask them their voting status and then hang that on that party to wear as a badge of dishonor...does it even play a role in the this shit show....was he hearing hapers vioce in his head,"kill for the conservative party" Security clearences, anyone have one done....It's a series of questions into your back ground history, and then those same questions are asked of the references you've named, and other sources are checked as they come up...if this guy could keep this from his wife, who he lives with 24 and 7 then odds are he'd be able to keep it from everyone else...i'm just guessing.... No one will know what made this guy snap, if we had those answers we'd be crime free would we not...what we do know is he has been charged....him and him alone...not Harper, not the conservatives, Liberals, or NDP, or the military just him...Sorry to undress the parade...pack away the confetty, the banners...

hear i found these on the CF web site you'll find ANA projects on both the ISAF site, and JTF afghan site, although they are small timbits of info pieced together they may provide a larger picture... My linkwww.comfec-cefcom.

And yet our laws and history is full of children being held responable for thier crimes, and in some cases where those crimes where so bad they where tried as adults for thier crimes explain that....Are we being hyprocrictal, I think all thats happen is we closed that loop for minors to get away with light sentences for serious crimes.... Are you freakin serious, Wyly did you not claim at one time to have served our military? ...And while i've prayed to the big guy many times during combat operations it was because dying scare the crap out of me...hence why the fear., ...make no doubt about it most soldiers in our military do fear death, we learn to control that fear, because our survival depends on it ....as without it you'll soon find yourself in a bag... As for the after life, kind of heard to explain that one as no one really has any proof of what happens after your dead, what we see on the battle field is torn up bodies, nothing to suggest that dying is an religious experiance where you see lights and greeted at the gates by anything let alone 40 virgins dress in the latest in thong attire...And while i do have strong sexual urges they do not trump my will to stay in the present,as a mortal being....

She won't because we don't have the leadership or stones to do so...becuase Canadians have been blinded by the Khadrs, the movement to have him brought home, set free is huge, a payout will follow to cleanse our hands and minds...Justice hoever will have nothing to do with it.... Not doing so because bad things will happen is bullshit, i would have thought bad things would have happen to the US for hold one of her children....and we still wait....NO the US justice system will do what we Canadians have failed to do, give him his day in court, and pass a sentence befitting his terrorist activities...

I think you miss the piont here, regardless of which army or which nation you decide to enlist in, be it an enemy of the state or not each soldier is responsiable for his or her own actions....and if those actions are terrorist in nature then that soldier is deemed a terrorist, precluding you from protection under the conventions and inter-national law....The laws are quite clear, Most nations claim you must be a citizen of thier country to join, there are exceptions as you've listed, Here in Canada you must be a canadian citizen, to join the military or RCMP...The USMC you need to be a citizen of the US, however you can join the army, navy, or airforce without being a citizen,....as for the French foreign legion, it was once a home to malcontents, and criminals, however todays FFL is now a very different place with most of there personal being of french decent, those few that are not upon completion of service where granted french citizenship.

You seem to be a smart person, and i know you already have the answer to the question you posed.... How could Canadians fighting under uniform for the US army be considered terrorists....next what is the defination of a terrorist....If irishmen engaged in terrorist activites while fight then yes that would make them a terrorist....if not what does that make them ?

Here is what i do know from statements provided, there was in fact 3 wpns found in the ally way that Omar was found in, a pistol found by Omar. one rifle recently fired, found next to dead guy , also a rifle recently fired found a couple of feet from Omar....DO we have proof that will stand up in a court of law...Nope....But it's kind of like finding a pile of crap on your kichen floor, and turning and seeing someone with the pants down to their knees and toilet paper still stuck to his ass....I can't prove it but i'm pretty sure he did...

I just want to remind everyone that while i do have personal experience on the ground i am not an expert on all things Aghanis and posters should continue with further research... my intention is to give all a different picture that is not always made clear in the media. and to perhaps provide some insite into some posters incorrect information. No sorry no site, just military briefings , updates that sort of thing. That being said all one has to do is gage what is happening in the media, every operation ongoing for sometime now has a Major portion of ANA attached with it. In regards to what exactly ? Soldiers are being constantly brief on the stratigic postion of our country NATO, and briefed Daily on the tactical level. I know below is the party line but it is what soldiers are constantly being told and all our work is gear around. The first four priorities focus primarily on Kandahar. Canada is helping the Government of Afghanistan to: maintain a more secure environment and establish law and order by building the capacity of the Afghan National Army and Police, and support complementary efforts in the areas of justice and corrections; provide jobs, education, and essential services, like water; provide humanitarian assistance to people in need, including refugees; and enhance the management and security of the Afghanistan-Pakistan border. Nationally, Canada is helping to: build Afghan institutions that are central to our Kandahar priorities and support democratic processes such as elections; and contribute to Afghan-led political reconciliation efforts aimed at weakening the insurgency and fostering a sustainable peace. One has to remember alot of our soldiers spend alot of time out side the wire, living amoungst afghanis they see first hand just what cumstances and challages these people live with every day of thier lives...Challanges such as getting clean water, cooking a simple meal, feeding thier children.... plus they get to see war from both sides, thiers and ours....we see first hand the effects of suicide bombers on a market full of cicilians as we are the first to respond, control and clean up these every time they happen....we also see the effects of war when we engage Taliban or terrorist forces....and all of it's after math....That and the fact is Canadain soldiers have a massive will and drive to help, and in afghanistan it's easy to find someone to help....be it giving kids school suppies, building a school firehall, fire trucks, ambulances, hiways , dam projects, wells , irrigation ditches ....you name it we've built it... I can't speak for all soldiers, but i will comment on our past missions with or under the UN, for me Bosina was a nightmare...Watching war crimes take place only to record them and report them to Higher...something that is very hard to do is watch while you know you have the training , wpns, and equipment to save lives...but can't...very frustrating....In Afghan that was all changed under NATO we had the ability to stop war crimes, we could use our training , wpns and equipment to save lives...to push the bad guys back...it meant i guess for me i could do some good , and when the bad guys needed a bitch slap, they got it.. I told this story a few times, on my first tour, during a rather long foot patrol, we stopped for lunch, i noticed a young girl staring at us, so i invited her over to share my lunch....through our translator...i learned alot about the afghan people that day, you see she had her hands cut off by taliban soldiers, and her father was killed in front of her....her crime was going to school... i know it sounds far fetched, all she wanted to do was honor her fathers death by going to school....and while i sat there watching her devour my lunch listening to her story with no hands and the skills of a surgern she was done before the rest of us...And here i thought i had problems , here i thought my only problem was to survive the foot patrol survive the tour and get back to my family....and here was a 8 year old girl, who had it all figured out, she forgave those who disfigured her, killed her father....and only wanted to go to school educate herself and make a better life for her and her family....YA it left me with a few tears, and a promise, if i could prevent this from happening just once then all my blood sweat and tears would be worth it..What i still have not been able to do is forgive those that have done this and many other crimes again'st thier own people..

The map in your link is of Pakistan. not Afghanistan.

You are arguing on whats going on on the ground right now. But you've also painted the entire mission with one brush....The majority of Afghans want what every human being wants after 30 plus years of war...peace, jobs, a secure future for thier children...So while tribal culture does play a role in Afghan polictics, it is not the leading role, Keeping the Taliban from returning is ....building a better future for thier children is, having a job so they can feed thier family is.... Yes we've been there 8 yrs, however insurgence warfare is a whole new ball of worms, and for the most part NATO is brand new at this type of combat...new tactics and stratagy is always ongoing....and involves more than just combat,there is a massive learning curve to include Governmental liason at all levels of government, Policing, building up infra structure,....And you know what up until recently these where all Canadain military functions, or ideas maybe a quick read from some of the books written about the Afghan mission and what it entails would give you a deeper idea on the what we do over there...Read Hilliers book it will give you a over all look on what our nation has done...from the Afghan government level down to pte on the ground... If you think it's ugly today ( still not a renown tourist vaction spot) but not the wild west shit show , as when we first arrived....The taliban openly control vast areas of Afghan, they don't today...infact they don't control much of anything now...

The decisions i'm talking about is the one he took just before and during the day of his capture, US and Afghanis Soldier's gave the entire villiage a warning, gave the civilains time to vacate the village...Omar decided he was staying....Omar could have surrendered at any time he decided not to.... Omar decided to take up arms and fight....

That was not the question Has he publically expressed his regret. And while many humans are capable of regrett there are plenty of examples of repeat offenders.

What gives a Canadian the right to take up arms and become a terrorist again'st any nation....I've looked and can not find one single reference. There is serveral laws however clearly stating that is is UNLAWFUL to take up arms again'st Canada and her allieds...There are serveral laws again'st terrorism or becoming a terrorist regardless of cause....I'm sure the rest of the western world also have similar laws... No where does it say piss me off enough and i can and will use deadly force when i want ...where i want.... and how i want....And while i do agree frustration can lead some to doing just that, it does not make it legal.

I would say no it should not be construed as advocating for terrorist. And while your right it has been advocated here on the forum. Thats not my piont we are getting lost in this entire argument about rights and our governments inaction etc.etc...when really we should be concentrating on the entire problem, which is see Omar gets tried in a court of law...CSIS agents who actually let this incident happen, and while many have presued this child soldier avenue , following it's to it's full intent as well,track down and prosicute those responsiable for child soldiers....in this case his parents... My personal opinion is i'm alittle tired of the bad guys rights trumping the good guys.... What message do we send Sgt Speers wife, if we ask for Khadr back , and we release him for time served, give him a large sum because 2 agents forgot about his rights...what message do we send other terrorist awaiting in the wings, or yet to have thier day in court.... What message do we give our soldiers, who have gave everything to this mission only to have one of the Bad guys hit the lotto in our country, soldiers who don't have 3 hot meals a day,no time for prayer, no coffy cot,in a climate controled building...i spent most of my time covered in sand fleas, sleeping on the ground, praying i did not get bite by something, or could sleep just 3 hours at one time....for me that was heaven.... I will admit Khadr may had it a little rough compared to other Canadians, i'll give him that....but those circumstances where of his making...his chioce, his actions, which have lead him there

No Army guy is at home, with his family...

.Why is it that we have to concede to anything, you sure hav'nt.... No your onus is to shine the light on the shameful acts of our government because it suits your agenda. at the very least our government is guilty of not ensuring all of Omars rights where protected....a very small part in the big picture when considering Omars entire life, his up bringing other GC and inter national laws that have been broken which you seem to ignor...which for the most part others have as well. If we are going to have justice here it must be 100% justice, we must ensure that all concerned are held to task.

Well if they do then why not mention it in thier findings....maybe they did and i missed it... I think the reason it's forgotten is that there is not enough proof to say for sure, without a doubt....so they concentrated on other violations of his rights... And should these violations be considered serious...if they are why are the CSIS agents who breached these rights been dealt with...why is there no Board of inquiry to ensure they don't happen again....

Thats a slam....All i'm saying is Churchill is wrong in the terms of today right here right now... "Wow" one person, must of been a very powerful conversation, to have you paint an entire country and it's history with one brush....I've done 3 tours in Afghanistan, been in Kabul, and traveled around much of the south most of that time, everyday coming into contact with local afghanis people. most were really good people ,some really bad...I was there in the start of Canada's commitment....and my last tour was just 7 mounths ago.... I to know how the war lords operate, as the taliban are not the only bad guys in the country...I don't think you'll find anyone outside of Afghan describe has heaven and earth...But ask your friend if he would rather live under the Taliban or Kharsi....

I'm sorry for not being clearer. I was talking about Omars case before the Supreme court of Canada, in which they decided his rights were violated. As some on this forum have suggested time and time again one of the key componets to those rights violations where that the CSIS agents knew that Omar was tortured, and did not protect Omar and his rights....And yet it was not a major or minor topic in the SC of Canada decision. However the Court transcript did not mention torture nor spend any amount of time on the topic...., nor did Omars lawyers execpt to say he "may" have been tortured....like mentioning he "may" of been to the moon....MY piont was if they could have proven this to the SC of Canada they would have as it would have been a major feather in their cap. And perhaps large enough to perhaps have the SC of Canada force the government into action....Since this was not done I'm assuming that the torture aspect of this trail has no merrit. So i ask you if Omars lawyers had a chance to futher his case do you not think they would of....or perhaps the torture thing is over blown and can not be proved....

I don't recall any headlights let alone slamming churchill. things change they always do....in this case he's wrong... Have you been to Afghanistan, studied thier culture, talked to Afghanis, or are you basing your opinion on historical facts... Changing what culture ? The Taliban rule was not based on any culture...it was thier ideals that they forced upon the people...though terror and brutal force..... But they also had access to all the resouces they needed....

Your not giving the court or Omars lawyers much credit are you...don't you think that if they could have proven it they would have....it would give Omars case a major boost....

I think you've just proven Gabriels piont, thats because there was'nt any torture. And yet it is a very popular belief in this forum that there was....

So it must be true, shit Churchill said so...to which i say bullshit...we as a human race can over come any obsticle provided thier is enough resources put towards it... I wounder if those NASA scientist who stared at the moon, had just said you know joe Historically no one has every been into space, let alone landed on the moon....Ya your right lets forget the entire idea....

I think what it boils down to now, is are we as nation going to have these violation of rights trump Omars other charges...When in fact it was but a few CSIS agents who failed in thier task to protect Omar...No investagation into this matter....I'm alittle confused here, had this been a soldier we would have been in court or in front of some board of inquiry by now....I Bring this up because the action of these agents have blacken Canada's reputation....in regards to Omars rights never being upheld... Other than this , Omar's case really stands on what legs today...