Army Guy

NO....Guys like Khadr are terrorists not soldiers...big difference...

We used to have a saying in Afghan, it's not IF your going to get attacked outside the wire....it's just a matter of when your going to get hit in your journey...what can i say some days are good, some are shitty I don't know what you call delivering anything with a full armoured column, but when you break it down...when i need 20 full 30 rd mags even before i get out of the bus....thats combat, when it takes a min of 3 amoured LAVS to escort just one veh thats combat....when i talk into the radio and then a small village disappears in flames and smoke ...thats combat....Now you can call it what ever you want, rebuilding , reconstruction, hell humanitarian aid....but when a soldier has access to this much fire power it's combat....And all canadian soldiers in Afghan are in combat....regardless of what they are doing....

Well i guess when you fight the way the french do , you'd need more numbers...

I agree with Jerry. I often wonder "why" we as a people have a hard time defining who we are, And the small things that do define us, we make it our hobby to destroy them, make them irrelevant, or slag them... I'd be interested to find out how much it would cost the government and tax payers to change our form of government, and everything that goes with it....just to get rid of the Queen as our figure head...

Motivies or not if i was a betting man i'd say Canada will have a combat role to play past 2011....

More than 104 K, there are some countries expanding thier troop levels....Italy, germany, france, Canada minor increases but they count as well.... I'm sure he has access to alot more intel than i do, but is he using it to base his remarks on.....he has a record of not listening to advisors or advice, he also has a record of not standing up for his mistakes.... And while he may have access to more intel, i'm sure the PM has not spent many hours hunting down these scumbags and distributing are foreign policy either....I've spent a year and half doing it, although it does not make me an expert, but i'm sure it does give me some credibilty in say these guys can be defeated....on and off the battlefield....anything is achieveable if you are willing to put enough resources and funding behind it....

Perhaps the question should be re worded, As NATO does not have allieds, it has members, only member countries are covered under the defence pact.....All others countires / missions have been requested thru the UN or by countries involved... Other than the 2 you have listed there is Bosina 95-2004 Macediona 01- 03 Pakistan earth quake 2005 Gulf of Aden 2008 Horn of Africa 2009 Med sea Iraq Training mission Nato

from the article. On the morning of Saturday, May 23, surveillance video at Mr. Chen's Lucky Moose supermarket caught Mr. Bennett on a bicycle stealing $60 worth of plants, only to return an hour later. When confronted, he fled on foot, with Mr. Chen and two employees in pursuit. They caught him, tied him up and put him in a delivery truck to await police. For their trouble, all three men face charges of assault, kidnapping, unlawful confinement and carrying concealed weapons (box cutters, Mr. Lindsay says).

Sorry mine is working just fine.... Pulling Canadian soldiers from Afghanistan in 2011 will leave a gaping hole in security efforts and won't necessarily ensure the end of combat operations, former chief of defence staff General Rick Hillier says. As MPs prepare to debate the future of the country's military mission in Afghanistan, Hillier delivered some plain-spoken advice in an interview with the Toronto Star: don't trust the twisted rhetoric and outright lies that will surely be delivered by the Conservative government or opposition parties. There will still be a need for security and counter-insurgency operations when Canada's mandate expires in 2011, he said. If seasoned Canadian troops leave Kandahar, some other nation, likely less familiar with the terrain and power brokers, will have to do the job. He said there's no need for Canadian troops, except in Kandahar or the northeast, and there's no way for Canada to carry out a goodwill mission without encountering violence. "If you stay in the south and try to do something like training, you will still be in combat. I don't care what (political) staffers say in the media about how they can find a way to do it. You simply will not. You will be in combat," Hillier said during a promotional interview for his new book, A Soldier First: Bullets, Bureaucrats and the Politics of War. Living behind blast walls and trying to carry out aid and reconstruction projects is futile and dangerous in a country where NATO and insurgent forces are battling for the trust of the locals. "It would be like going to shore at Normandy on the sixth of June (1944) and driving around ... sightseeing and leaving the enemy the opportunity, flexibility and initiative to attack you when they want," Hillier said. The advice from the most politically savvy soldier to lead the Canadian Forces in memory won't be welcomed by MPs of any stripe: all are driving for a reduced presence in Afghanistan eight years after it was invaded by the United States. But Hillier's intent, both as chief of defence staff and now as a former general, was never to be "politically palatable." He rarely was. His three-year term will be remembered for dubbing the years of mostly Liberal rule in the 1990s the "Decade of Darkness," branding the Taliban "scumbags and murderers" and for musing about a 10-year fight for the future of Afghanistan when the government had committed Canadian troops to only two years down the line. "I always tried to speak frankly and clearly and to say whatever I believed was right," Hillier said. "The military knew what it was doing on the ground there and what was needed, and to have people and staffers coming out and saying that we can do this job in two years or five years, or we can train without being in combat ... it's just baloney." The most prominent theme in Hillier's autobiography is a distaste for politicians who cast aside responsible, realistic and professional assessments to impose their own torqued political imperatives and for bureaucrats who would rather protect their turf in Ottawa than Canadian soldiers in a war zone. Those were the defining characteristics of the capital during the Liberal and Conservative minority parliaments from 2005 to 2008. "It's a terrible, terrible environment in which to work," he said. "Very vitriolic. We've been in that now for five years and it doesn't appear that we're going to break out of it." What's lost are the courageous long-term commitments necessary to fight a tough war or rebuild the Canadian military, in favour of short-term government gambles or unfair opposition criticisms that sell well with the electorate. An analysis he conducted of the daily question period in the House of Commons found about 150 questions in one session of Parliament on military and defence issues. The vast majority focused on the treatment of suspected insurgents by Canadian soldiers, and whether they were abused in local Afghan-run jails -- a matter Hillier views as a tempest in an Afghan teapot. "I'm not sure our parliamentary system right now is delivering really what Canadians would like to have," he said.

Well in this case the Judge did find him guilty, and one does not have to be a judge or lawyer to see a crime take place and know it is illigal....if i walk up your drive way and steal your car, and you see me both of us know i'm guilty of theft....thats how common sense works.... And while chasing down criminals is a serious bussiness and does require training and is NOT recommended by law enforcement....it should NOT be again'st the law.... Our current sys we have in place is not working, as it should....the lack of proper funding to our law enforcement sys, to our courts, and many of our liberal laws such as this one here....we are discussing .....has effectivily handed a large advantage to the criminals....Criminals would not be doing this type of activty if it did not pay off in some way.... Why should a criminals rights out wiegh a normal citizens rights..... Here we are saying that protecting ourselfs, assisting the law is bad, will be one step closer to hell, that there will always be a citizen that will stretch it to far.....your right there is always that chance.....but all it takes for these scumbags to floushish is to do nothing.....and trust me they are more willing to take that extra mile than ordinary citizens are...in fact they've built an entire industry out doing so..... Citizens are tired of being on the short end of the stick, and will eventually take the law into thier own hands damn the consquences....Do you see policing getting better any time soon ? do you see our courts changing laws for the better ? do you see these criminals changing thier ways anytime soon....I bet your answer is NO....so where does that leave us , citizens that do obey the laws, but result in paying for criminals out of thier pocket....we pay for policing, we pay for housing, we pay higher insurance, we pay for equipment to stop them, ie secure doors, security gear, etc etc etc now we are becoming criminals when we get frustrated that our system the one designed to protect us from all that is not doing what it is suppose to do....

Vigilantism ,really.... what really happen here the man chased down a thief, tied him up, put him in the back of a pick up and phoned the cops...no mention the thief was mishandled, beaten, tortured..... There seems to be something lacking here....Mr Chan was depending on the law to protect him and his livelyhood, not once but on serveral occasions, along with other store owners....and it failed them on all those occasions...and it will continue to fail them because it's a petty crime, the police have better things to do, and WE have laws that give the advantage to the criminals....with all that do you see this criminal stopping his crimes any time soon.... People do what they do out of frustration....if we want it to stop then the laws have to be changed....

I think Canadians to try to wrap thier minds around the possibility of stay in Afghan much longer than 2011... national

Thanks AW.

Here is a clear example of whom we should be able to strip his citizenship, pack his bags and ass, and put on the next flight back to his ex homeland....one that no doubt he would be welcomed with open arms....

Don't get me wrong i love this country but our justice sys does suck sometimes....this being one of them....This man might as well hang a sign out in front of his store "free shit for all criminals, drugies, low lives, etc.etc ...and higher prices for those of us who pay for our goods and services.... Mod rules and excessive force, are concerns but what about some of the obvious ones....like this guy being a repeat offender for one....Ya it's a petty crime, but to this store owner he's being robbed of his lively hood, taking away from his family, not to mention his contributions to the the honest whole of his community....We other citizens are paying for this idiots steeling in other ways as well higher prices, more taxes...etc etc....and what about lack of policing....ya i know busy doing other shit....but are we forcing our citizens to take the law into thier hands.... So to Mob rules and excessive force, i say to bad....can't fell the pain don't do the crime....I think this law does need to be amended....i also think this crack whore needs to do some community service....not jail time....much less reduced jail time....

Not a very good idea, although the military has a vested interest "thier lives" it could also lead to abuse that could see us in a totally unacceptable form of government.... The use of our Armed forces is based on 3 concepts Civil control of the military, Command of the armed forces, and defence administration in all it's aspects. Civil control is what we are talking about now, which means control of our armed forces by civilians elected to Parliament. It is parliament that must ensure that decisions and risks that are political are made by politicians rather than soldiers, officals, or others that are not responsible to parliment. The Cabinet under the control of the PM is responsible agent for the defination of the defense policy, and control of the CF. Those responsibilties have been delagated from the people of Canada to the governing party.... All that being said that delagation is limited, NO government has unristricted power over the CF, There is already a seris of checks and balances within our laws and constition meant to control the authority of the government, the Armed forces, and civil bureaucracies. It is shared among the GG, PM, Minister of national Defence,CDS. This arrangement prevents the Government in using our military for partisan purposes... That being said it an unwritten statement that any conflict we get into will be a just one, approved by the people and the government of the day, re election depends on it....Including those that we have binding defence agreements on, such as NORAD, NATO etc etc....all need to be aproved in parliment... I got my ref from National Defence Headquaters: Center of decision written by Douglas Bland.

wyly: Hey, i know were on the same side, and your right in every way, the government which we elected, did pick the mission....I know Afghan would not have been my chioce,some place with white beaches and very small swim suits would have been mine.......however, we are there now, and the Canadian people lack the will to change that, so until 2011 our soldiers will suck it up, and no doubt beyond 2011....

What nobody is demanding an inquiry or some sorts....I wonder what that Ottawa law professor is doing now.... This whole thing is so sad it's rather funny in a sick way, only because some Canadians will actually believe this shit.......paying off the bad guys...not to attack...i Guess nobody told the bad guys.....

Some interesting reading. Post

Really, perhaps that is because they have a military that reflexs there needs and GDP. Something that Canada refuses to do...there is nothing in it for the avg citizen or politician except more taxes....

I'd be curious to know just how Gen Hillier used the military for polictical purposes that where not within his job discription...That being said Any dept head ie RCMP, Military, etc is more politician than cop, or soldier, that is how things get done in ottawa, in the case of Gen Hillier, as our military history will show, if your not extremely good at both, well your military looks the way ours does today....Yes men never built anything great... What sets Gen Hillier and the military apart from the other Dept heads , is that he is responsiable for very lives for which he commands, he makes the tough decisions about life and death, he plans, he puts into action any defense , or offensive operation this nation takes part in... In speaking out in regards to his troops, equipment, or the military overall that is his job, his first responsiablity is to his troops thier safety, well being etc etc ....that is drilled into every military member, from Pte to gen....and in my opinion he did that in spades....regardless of the forum he did it in... As for influencing our countries national policy, Calling the Taliban names is hardly influencing anything....Remember it was our government that task our soldiers to close with and destroy the enemy....the Scumbags that Hillier refers to ... were being vaporized by every wpn sys in our inventory ....all well and good, just don't tell the population how we do it....and what ever you do don't call them names on TV....give me a break.... Public servents that serve no public, but rather the nation, and the Queen interests, unless they place the nation at risk or thier commands are unlawful.... Yes there is a safety net there.... I guess it is a matter of opinion, of what the Gen Betrayed, As a military member that served under him on serveral occasions i'd follow him to the gates of hell any day....In fact most troops would, not only did he influence our policticians into getting some of the equipment and making some changes we desparately needed...but in doing so he saved lives....our lives....and in doing so he kept the faith, to us, his postion, and to this nation....and if he hurt a few feelings along the way, to bad....

Piont well taken , Canada should be the last nation to be throwing rocks, about other nations commitments or abilities....What i don't understand is how hard we work at not meeting those commitments....

Hillier was one of a kind, the kind that only comes along once or twice in a life time....imagine a CDS with large enough balls that actually fit the postion he was in. As for NATO, Canada needs this defence alliance more than the alliance needs Canada, we are not ready to pay for our own defence, not yet, perhaps not for another generation....to bad our kids will have to pay for our mistakes, or lack of action. Afghan mission was said to be the make it or break it time for NATO, and it is failing...overall , there are still afew nations that have stepped up to the plate, ours being one of them, atleast to the piont where what ever the next alliance may be or we sign on to we will atleast get looked at as a nation that has something to contribute but it is not going to be cheap.

I think we are blowing this all out of portion here, Canada has not tortured anyone ....And we've made sure that we fully comply with the conventions, and all we've signed on for. We've stated to the world we don't torture anyonenor do we condone it, we have serveral inquiries into the matter, and they've found little, and what they have found has been corrected.....So as a nation we've done our part.... What more is it that you want our Nation to do ? Sanctions, cutting off ties with other nations that have condone it or done it, What action will allow you to have a clear conscience.... I think we in the west have shot ourselfs in the foot when we where asked to come up with the defination of torture....i mean really depriving one of sleep, making them listen to loud disco music, or making them get into a stress postion....Shit i've had all that in one Spin class given by some physico PSP instructor....now that is torture.... And on the other hand, the talban consider those and other western methods, warm up methods, they like to get straight into the more physical methods, beatings, electric shock to the testies, drowning, before getting into the heavy stuff, like stripping off all your skin and staking you to the ground to bake in the heat and mid day sun.....or kill your father in front of you so you get a clear picture of what it is like to go to school..... But torture is torture is it not.....as we have declared it , agreed with the discription, and signed our names to it....perhaps we should have been clearer..... I think when we boil it down all some Canadians are guilty of is not giving a shit about who tortures terrorists, as long is it is not us.....something i can sleep with....

Triple post, sorry it's monday....