Army Guy

Oleg, i've done a few tours under the UN as a peacekeeper, and i can tell you this i'd rather be a mencenary clone of the US, anyday of the week...than put another blue helmet on and watch as all around me murder and mayhem takes place....And while most Canadians will stand up and say it more respectable , more honorable to do peacekeeping under the UN banner....than to stand up for our Defense agreements, and help our niebors....I'd say they where full of shit... For the first time in a long time soldiers can do what they where trained for. Thats right, you want someone to hand out teddy bears and blankets hire the peace nik's or NGO's....you want someone to close with and destroy the enemy then send a soldier....

Something about harboring the terroist group responsable for 9/11, and not willing to hand over Bin Ladin...And Yes we are talking about Afghan , and I do get your piont... I guess that would depend on what line in the sand you've drawn in order for you to take action....Would it have been enough if those 25 or more Canadians had been murdered in our streets, and what of those over 3000 Americans, What of our defense agreements with NATO, and the US... I've done 3 tours over there in Afghan i can give you dozens of reasons to stay, but thier mine, and you won't like them... IED's is only a method of attack, and they have many...and while it is a favorite it is not thier only method...like i said before 10's of billions are being spent on counter IED measures...but the problem is more complicated than just spotting a hole in the ground...or using a mine detector...hence why research is still ongoing...and while we sent a man to the moon, it did get there over night... As for the Death rate, while it is low compared to the job we are doing, and consider how many ways death can be dealt out in this place...it remains high enough for our government to fork out billions on counter IED, purchase helo's, and other equipment...and if you remember our history that does not come easy, for our government to do...But it has no bearing on why we are here...

Then you must know that disposing of a government of another nation has some responsibilities to it, Getting rid of the Taliban military, and governmental structure was the easy part...if one was to simple do that and walk away, it would not be long for the same type of government to re establish it self, and become a problem once again in the future... We are assisting in rebuilding this nation so we don't leave the job half done. and don't have to come back in 6 mths to do it all over again. For ever counter measure we take they take one as well, it's to bad our research costs bils of dollars and thier consists of putting more explosives in a hole....IED counter measures market is worht 10's of bils of dollars, in research alone, and triple that in equipment purchases across the NATO market. CDN military has a small sampling of almost everything out there from vehs to jammers to what ever else you can think off. and while they have had good sucess in finding IED's the solution is never 100% accurate, you rarely find the media reporting on all the ones found and disarmed just the ones that detonated.... One has to remember that an IED can be as small as a hand grenade or as large as serveral thousand pounds of explosive... and man has not invented a veh or piece of equipment that can stop the destructive power of those large devices....As we build better vehs and equipment they build bigger bombs....

I don't think that will solve our problems, there are other super powers that will quickly fill the void that will be left....It's a catch 22 situtation, i think that atleast by funding these countries that the west as some power to atleast somewhat control these nations and thier actions...And if another super power has influence over them do you not think they will use that to thier benifit. Discrimintory laws, such as which laws ? and which wars of aggressions ? DO they want more influence , Hard to tell in Iraq, Afghanistan...and many other muslim countries, that where given that freedom to choose any form of government they wanted, and it was served to them on a platter and yet they have chosen violence over freedom.... The Controling government and controling religious groups are linked they are as one. as you've said here and this is done to control thier population, it is done to spread thier message and right now that message is the west is bad, and needs to be destroyed...And millions are buying into that, as the conditions are right, lack of education, poor standard of living, etc etc .... Iran is one of the more liberal Muslim countries in the Middle east, but one can not say the government there has total control over the country, Religion has an iron grip and overall control...and will always have...If the people truely wanted to exericise thier power and wanted thier freedoms they would have done so years ago....Iran's struggle with the west is only a distraction to keep the people focused , not on thier freedoms but rather thier hate of the west... Wiki , CIA handbook, there are plenty of other refs if you like however Egypt is listed as a Semi-presidential system one that requires the people to vote, sound democratic to me....and while they're may be flaws in thier government one has to admit, it is a change for the better...

Here is some interesting reading, about Islam. My link

Right now your are looking at this for one side on the fence "OURS", and while we do deserve our share of the blame for this problem, it is a 2 sided street. I presently don't see a western nation capable of a Holocaust type event or crime do you....Awhile we will probable not share the same bed or house for some time i don't see muslims being rounded up here in America and shipped off to camps... I also would not class this Islamophobia as hate either, very concerned yes, maybe even dislike, but hate NO... I disagree, Those Muslim countries that are radical or becoming radical are not doing it for more freedoms, but rather to surpress those that do want those freedoms, ...And they are using religion to control thier populations...Such as the Taliban, Iran, Syria, the list goes on....and i'm sure that if you peeled the layers of control away, we might just find that is is the religion that controls the nation, not the government or dictactor, etc etc......Iran a prefect example... The west supports and gives aid to most of the Middle east, and most muslim countries...those not supported by the west get thier aid or assistance from others such as Russia or China...Threaten to cut this aid would only see them making a deal else where, and becoming even more hostile towards the west.... Last time i checked Egypt was a democractic country, Your staraegy is flawed, these approaches have been tried, and very few have amount to anything with good results, Egypt might fit into that catagory...I think there may be alot of dislike out there for Muslims, but i know we are away off before we start rounding them up for camps.... Actually i said we've tried everything, and i did not know the solution...Anything is possiable, If western nations could defeat an entire army of Iraq in weeks , can you imagine if NATO decided to get serious with a total deployment.

As it has already been stated, alot "NOT" all of these muslim countries are poor by western standards, perhaps it is thier way of coping with todays modern world, that is changing every day, These countries do not want change, and that is reflected in thier religious teachings or as we discussed thier interputation of thier religion to suit the times and thier needs....keeping in mind that most of these countries have adapted religion in with thier governmental controls over the people... That and the fact that the western world is seen as the enemy for serveral thousands of reasons, our medling in thier affairs, our stance with Israel, our wealth, our power over the global economy, and world events....it all adds up..without the means to solve these or counter these problems they turn to. Both sides are not about to chnage in the near future, and clashes are going to become more frequent.

How about tougher sentences for those that do commit crimes with fire arms...

Some of these "areas" span entire countries, and these people of trust or postions of power influence millions, in these countries religion makes up a huge part of thier culture and who they are...which can be changed slightly but over generations. Both, Islam and christianity have been clashing since the beginning of time, and as islam develpoes into a more radical religion, and christianity is developing into the opposite direction they are bound to clash more often...In the since of todays communication, travel, media, etc etc small events that may not have had any impact on a global basis are effecting everyone now on both sides of the fence, Muslim and Christians, which seem to validate our growing concerns, doubts, and anger towards each other... What is the solution, the end state, other than global war...there is none that could be or would be effective..I mean explusion, Quantine, would all just bred more resentment,more anger....every solution that has been tried todate has failed, including war.... back to square one So like a circil what is it we do ?

Islam is not just a religion, but a way of life...and when it is presented by people in a postion of trust such as iman, governments, etc etc ....who's interputation is violent then the religion and it's followers becomes violent... add to that lack of education in some areas, blind faith, local conditions,poverity, war, world events...it all boils down to what we see today...

For the same reason that Sir Bandalot has clearly pionted out here...Take this conflict for instance an overall majority of Canadians were in fact in favour of this mission, mind you it was the lesser of two evils, when they decided on it, ....and here today the majority seem NOT to support the mission....although they are willing to vioce thier opinions at the supper table or dinner parties, they are not willing to do anything meaningful to see thier new beliefs through....in other words they talk a good game, but still want to remain on the bench. As for the politicians, they are as trust worthy as we the people make them....They govern the way they do because we let them...How many Canadians out there actually follow politics, would you say the majority of Canadians....and if they are not following the way this country is being run then they deserve what the government gives them...And if we are not going to take them to task for any wrong doing or decisions we don't like then what gives us the right to bitch and whine or piont fingers at what we don't like... I've said many times here that the Canadian people are our safety net, in regards to keeping our military up to par in relation to the taskings that we are assigned...todays military state is in poor condition, as you've said so yourself. So ask yourself would you allow the these same people to make the decision if we go to war or not....judging by the state of our current military, i'd say no.... I think it's spelled out pretty clear in the above para's, the entire apparatus that makes this country tick have let itself down, and currently i'd much rather that power that decides how our nation is run , who makes the policies is much better left to the politicains....as alot of Canadians can not even get off the couch to manually adjust the TV much less vote on topics that require them to do research and homework on....This entire Afghan mission is a prefect case example...

Well said...The people of Canada are our nations Military safety net, we depend on you for our safety as much as you depend on our support for yours... this is exactly what the lawyer from ottawa did his lone vioce was heard, and our government was forced into action...into making changes in regards to this conflict....The power remains with the people if the government wants to remain in power...unless you allow the government to run this country the way they want, such as what is happening today....then we deserve exactly what is giving out...And we need to stand up and own that decision...because that is what we want, or will accept.....

Ah yes another man of action, I'm not blaming anyone for any decisions....in fact Eyeball i supported the decision so, much i volunteered not once but three times to serve in Afghan....i call that springing into action, so for a man that does not support the mission , other than expressing yourself here, what have you done, in regards to making a change to support your beliefs....All i'm saying if your not willing to stand up for those beliefs then really your just mumbling into the wind. And going with the flow.... Your missing the piont here once again, your mumbling into the wind, because your not willing to hold our government to the task, sure you'll mumble but not not willing to get off the couch and do something about it....Those that have done something about thier beliefs are tiried of the whinning and complaining...and now want to here your silence...or see your action.....there is more to being a citizen than just paying taxes....i don't think i can make it any clearer....

If we are going to assign blame then one must also have the balls to stand up and own our share of it...We all know how our government works, what drives it into action, what puts problems on thier radar screen...Thats votes, and public opinion, and in the end each party will do what needs to be done in order to get them re elected...and according to recent polls a majority of Canadians do not support this mission, but here is the catch they are not willing to take action on thier own to press the issue, sure there is small protests here and there, but nothing in the numbers required to make changes, or have our government take notice.... Same with the pro war movement, thier has been many actions that they have taken to prove thier piont, however, nothing that will tilt the scale in thier favour... But this is typical Canadian behavior, we allow our government to basically run the country as "they" see fit, election promises don't mean shit....and change on a whim, It's like Canadians have lost faith in our entire way of governence, and refuse for the most part take up thier role in how our country is run...to use thier given rights to make changes...But we are content to allow our government to do the things they do, were like a beaten dog....yes we will whine and even piont fingers...but in the end we will except what our government feeds us , and moan and groan and then the next day ask for more....I'm starting to think it is something that defines this new generation of Canadians... So while we demand our government to live up to it's part, we must not forget that we also have a part to play, and it does not just end at the voting booth, hoping our government does the right thing.... That is how our system works, Ask that Ottawa lawyer how it works, one man made a diference his vioce was heard and our government took action...if you stay on the couch and say nothing then you allow the government see govern as they see fit... My piont is this, if Canadians are not willing to take the action required to drive our government into action one way or the other then step aside...that is my piont...because now we have status qoe, and are in limbo, Yes the war effort is getting some funding, not enough to sway it in any major dirrection....and all it is doing is making our soldiers suffer....Hence why i have said many times this is not a Canadian conflict or mission....it is our soldiers conflict, we own it, we are putting all the effort into it, we are making it work very slowly but it is still working....we have been forgotton by the other half of Canadians....In the end we all want the same thing to come home...soldiers want to win it then come home , it is what we do, it is built into who we are...for a majority of Canadians they are tired of the conflict, it eats up to much of thier time, they want to move on...it is who they are... I guess the ball is in your court, it's time for you to dance or sit back down....Every Canadian soldier that serves in Afghan is clearly making a statement, and is clearly doing what it takes to ensure we remain on mission...as for us thier is no rallies we can attend....instead we sopeak by volunteering for another tour....We've been dancing for 8 years now....i don't think it would be to much to ask if you took your turn....not only ensuring that our soldiers are looked after....but our best interests are as well.

Very nice , the entire forum has a new look , that is second to none...Job well done sir.

Very nice , the entire forum has a new look , that is second to none...Job well done sir.

They are when your aluminum hat is so large that it interfers with recieving TV signals, and blocks out Hockey night in Canada..... But if your so upset at our culture and our country why stay, why not just pack up and move back to China...I mean if it's cash thats holding you back i'm sure we can start a return Bjre to china fund raiser....in fact i got 10 dollars here not doing anything....

He was a man who choose to be a soldier, whom believe that there is a higher calling or sense of duty towards ones country, he joined his chosen profession so that he could be apart of that brotherhood that shares the same morals and values that he does....And he gave his life for those beliefs...and they should not be slighted, or reduced to to the term WORM FOOD.... Regardless of what the general population believes this mission is all about...To us soldiers, this is our conflict, our mission, and we are making all the sacrafices....as it has been long forgotten by most Canadians....And for us this is truly the sad part of todays Canadian history.... We can't just drop this at our governments feet and piont the finger, we are all well aware of how our government works, and what drives them into taking action....and yet they have not done anything, let me rephrase that, they certainly spoke up when some professor accussed our soldiers of mishandling taliban prisoners, it flooded the media, for months, so much so that new policies were written new guidelines set out....and although it proved false , we are still living with the new guide lines....ONE MAN in ottawa made this happen....just one vioce out of millions.... SO while it's nice to piont the finger at our government ....i think Canadians should also take up thier share of the blame....and either spring into action or Shut TFU....like BC said earlier we should own every descision our government makes on our behalf, don't like it change it....use the freedoms that have been given to all of us....sometimes all it takes is to reach down and give them alittle squezze....Sorry ladies.... Our soldiers are waiting as we have been for over 8 years for the majority to reach down and give them a squezze... take them for alittle test drive either we are at WAR and you support us totally , or we are not and you bring us home.....

Thats not what the witness statements say, read them again there is x 3 of them....The man that shot both Khadr and the man next to him staes that he fires a volley down a small ally way, then advances to find a man dead from wounds to the head, he turns see a person on his hands and knees he puts 2 rounds into his back..... And while that is a nice picture , every has seen it by now can you be 100 % postive that highlighted body is Khadrs....all i see is a body wrapped in a white covering....and yet in other pictures Khadr is not wear any white these are pictures that clearly show Khadr with US medics working on his chest wounds.......i wonder did they change his clothing , before the medics worked on him.... What the picture does suggest is that person whom ever it was is unlikely to have thrown the grenade ...and i would agree....but then if he is buried in all that rubble how did he recieve 2 bullet wounds to the back...are the other 3 US soldiers lieing as basically they tell the same story....that Omar was seen on his knees, thats when the shot him...in the back...

You mean like we did to the Japanense people during WWII, what they get again, oh ya a "SORRY".....

Some how i don't think he's coming back, the above quote is one, second we as a nation don't have what it takes to charge him with any of a number of other charges.....and we don't want the world finding out that little secret...

NO....Guys like Khadr are terrorists not soldiers...big difference...

We used to have a saying in Afghan, it's not IF your going to get attacked outside the wire....it's just a matter of when your going to get hit in your journey...what can i say some days are good, some are shitty I don't know what you call delivering anything with a full armoured column, but when you break it down...when i need 20 full 30 rd mags even before i get out of the bus....thats combat, when it takes a min of 3 amoured LAVS to escort just one veh thats combat....when i talk into the radio and then a small village disappears in flames and smoke ...thats combat....Now you can call it what ever you want, rebuilding , reconstruction, hell humanitarian aid....but when a soldier has access to this much fire power it's combat....And all canadian soldiers in Afghan are in combat....regardless of what they are doing....

Well i guess when you fight the way the french do , you'd need more numbers...

I agree with Jerry. I often wonder "why" we as a people have a hard time defining who we are, And the small things that do define us, we make it our hobby to destroy them, make them irrelevant, or slag them... I'd be interested to find out how much it would cost the government and tax payers to change our form of government, and everything that goes with it....just to get rid of the Queen as our figure head...