Army Guy

Are you sure he lied about it, or was misinformed, or did not have all the facts at the time...He did after all make the correction, i mean lets give the guy some credit, his correction was not holding the party line but based on facts that where presented to him after the fact.... I want to clear something about torture and abuse they are not the same, there is a clear difference between them...So while the CDS has admitted this detainee in question was abused while in Afghan police custody, he also made it clear once the Canadian military found out about the abuse they retrieved the detainee ASAP...keeping in line with our Laws and conventions we have signed... As for being warned that torture does happen your right we as a nation have been warned, hundreds of Taliban prisoners have claimed to have been tortured, under care and control of the Afghan government...Foreign affairs and Dept of corrections have policies in place along with personal, and a long list of check lists items they perform to ensure that any Candian captured detainee is not tortured or abused while in Afghan custody...and while this system is not infalable there has not been any hard proof that it has happened...

Sorry guys been away for a little bit. I've read most of the posts.... Nicky but i'm having a hard time trying to figure out what exactly did the CDS admit to. Could you bring me up to speed please....I've read serveral of the interviews the CDS gave in ref to this topic and i can't find anything that would compromise any laws or conventions.... From what i've read Canadians took into custody a suspected Taliban insurgent, then handed him over to the Afghan police who beat him....Canadian military found out about it and took him back...Did i miss anything...

I actually stopped enforcing the hospital bed making when my 3 year old had asked me for some help....His sisters had asked one of my Sgt's at the time how to make the beds tighter....he had told them to use heavy yarn and sow the blankets underneath the bed so the looked like a shoe lace...once that was done all you had to do was tighten them like your shoes....anyways my 3 year was having problems and his sisters who normally would help him were out...so he asked me...imagine a 3 year old with hospital style bed...what was i thinking....all i knew was what the ARMY had taught me, it worked there but did not transcend into the raising kids catogory very well.... BTW my cooking skills have since improved, and now i know how to make grilled chesse sandwichs, and hambuger helper....and my wife threw out my only copy of revielle with the bugles and bagpipes which i used to play on the tape deck first thing in the morning....but i think that was more of a request from my neibors wife than her idea....as the walls in the PMQ's are very thin , and everyone was up at 6 am when i was home.......she has since purchased alarm clocks for everyone....lets just say things around my home are alot less army than they used to be... I will agree kids are one of our best assets, and regardless of how bad they sometimes get, all it takes is a small pout on or a tear, and dads heart turns to mush...and my girls have that down to a science.... i would want to do it again alone anyways , but i am glad i did do it....atleast my kids have some stories to tell thier kids....

Everyone is getting letters or e-mails, or coming home to an empty house, or apartment, and a dear john letter tacked on to the door.... ....I think what put it all into perspective for me was when my wife deployed to Afghan , and i was left at home with the kids...don't get me wrong i love my kids to death...but i would not want to do that again...nor do my kids want that to happen again either, 7 mths of kraft dinner and pancakes...on top of pizza and burgers ...they loved it the first 2 weeks, but now we can't even drive by a Micky d's without gagging...So when my wife said my last deployment was my last...i had no problems not sticking up my hand....but i was lucky my wife is in the military and has a greater understanding of the military than civilians wifes do....which makes it all that more harder...they where not kidding when they say behind every great soldier is a greater wife...One of the hardest jobs on the planet.... I've often said i'd rather be out soldiering than stuck in a house with 3 young kids....I consider myself to be in excellent shape, those kids run me ragged, i mean at 9 pm when the last one was down for the count , i was completely exhausted....praying to god" get me through this and i'll do what ever it is you want" I also consider myself old army, and can bark out orders that make grown men cry....I'm regimented to the degree all my kids knew how to make a hospital sytle bed you could bounce a quarter off of...morning inspections, checking beds for correctness, mouths and teeth brushed, dressed properly, all while standing to attention....I thought i had a grip on the whole situation....to easy i thought....I'm a seasoned Sr NCO in the army, been to battle 3 times ....well them little bastards (god bless them) can smell weakness a mile away, you go soft just once...and poof you've lost control....nothing in my entire life or training perpared me for the next 7 months.....After we wifes return for Afghan it took my wife just one week to have ALL of us back into a routine that everyone could live with....as for me i'm sticking with soldiering, and will never again say anything bad about a military wife...

I'm not a navy guy,so i'm basing this on my opion and a little research... and while we did get a somewhat deal on those subs we purchased from the mother country, it, been 10 years in the making,and not much to show for it .... with a few more to go...before we can use them for any intended purpose...and when you add up all the repair costs and the time in which they are not in use, And the fact that at the time new Subs were not on the radar, in fact they still are not on the radar in regards to equipment that is much more needed... Today there are other options available for much better tech , one of the main arguments that pro sub purchasers have made is having subs keeps Canada in the sub bussiness and we don't lose any of that experiance...true enough but we could have still maintained our sub program with the old subs, still maintained our limited sov patrols, and waited....and maintained our NATO sub training , and providing the US with diesels to target practice on.... Germany has a very nice sub the type 212A and the 214 made up of the latest tech , even with an alternative fuel cell tech....Germany has had some problems with it's other european sub manufacture and is resulting in the closing of that facility...that combined with greece refusing to except already built 214 for it's navy....sounds like an oportunity...or a door atleast opened a crack... one to upgrade into a state of the art dies? AIP sub,.... next getting into AIP tech at the ground floor could be benificial for Canada, it's green, and if perfected could be a cheaper solution than say Nuk power subs....Germans are looking for another country to partner up with in regards to building Subs...we've all but lost our ship building experience , this could spark more benifits for canada's failing ship building industry....albiet only a few nations are lined up to purchase the 212 , 214 subs....we could atleast build our own, here...it's an option not the best option , but it ranks right up there with buying rusted hulls off the British....

It's they way we've all been brought up, we take that lifeless body and convert it to a number, sometimes we add a qualifer to it such as women or children, to discribe it but that is far as we dare go...then we turn all those numbers into statistics....and we are safe...we no longer get that mental picture of a lifeless body all torn up... In the big picture they don't matter,they will not turn the tide or actions of a country or group.... to a piont where if you wipe out an entire city like dresden perhaps people will perk up...perhaps take notice, but kill a few hundrd in heavy fighting and they barely get noticed..and if they do they will be buried in next weeks news...added to the stats and forgotten... Most soldiers rarely target civilians...in fact you rarely notice them, caught up in your own life and death struggle...but i have seen soldiers risk life and limb to rescue civilians but i've yet seen any NATO soldier deliberatly target a civilian... We , as those back here in Canada always pick up on these type of topics, always concerned our troops behaving properly not roughing up POW's or not killing civilians,and yet fail to understand what we have asked these people to accomplish in our names, and flag...and it's frustrating for our soldiers while knee deep in shit, blood, and guts, thinking what did they expect...we are at war...we have to learn to meet each other in the middle...

Those subs you talk about have 115 operational days since 2000, for every day spent at sea they've spent 14 days in dry dock under going repair...i think it's time we call a dog a dog...this one is barking has been barking ever since we picked the first one up...in all it was the wrong purchase at the wrong time... And yes they are capable, as long as you don't submerge them or they can fight from the docks... Our Tanks, those barly used tanks , the majority of them sat in a warehouse before we purchased them, and the majority of them are still sitting in a warehouse, for what nearly 2 years now...on top of all that they are Leo IIA4 models....while most of the other german leo users are operating New leo IIA6 or better...such as we are in Afghan, only because we borrowed them for that purpose....they are now worn out or suffering from battle damage.... Our CF 18's are a and b models....the latest version is the F model on avgerage there is 4 to 5 years between models you do the math ....one of the main reasons we are upgrading is becasue we did not have the ability to drop smart wpns, or the comms equipment needed to talk to other NATO countries...there is a list of whys and it's as long as my arm...these upgrades are not going to make this aircraft comparable to new modern fighters , but rather bring it up to the minimum standard required just to operate in todays battle space...

Normally i take Oleg with a grain of salt, he's a good man, but someone or something burned him bad, and every once in awhile he goes off on one of his military tangents....On this topic it was not just Olegs comments but others as well that struck me as misdirected in regards to Civilain cas.... If your refering to Bonams remarks, he was repeating what Oleg had just said...and the fact that i did not say anything in regards to them is because while i think Civilian cas are tragic, the are a part of WAR, my piont is this want to stop that , stop sending our troops into a combat zones...But once you do send in our troops don't be disgusted that there is civilian cas, because in war everything and everyone dies it's fact not be callous but fact... I hope that puts my post into a clearer light.

How do you tie this to the con's, The liberals also have a record of buying US, why because it's cheaper to buy rather than concieve a new piece of equipment. Canada can not have it's cake and eat it as well...Military R&D takes 3 to 4 times the amount to produce a viable piece of equipment...It's hard enough to peurchase equipment already, can you imigine the pill the Canadian tax payer would have to swallow if we designed and built our own equipment here in Canada... What would be a perfect size for our military, with just over 36 million as a population base...and while i will agree with you that we don't need a huge military but if you put it into context we have only 15,000 pers in the army of which only 7500 are in combat trades, thats only 7500 combat troops for the 2 and largest nation in the world...So your right Canada does need to rationalize it's approach to our military....

Paul martin did do alot more than any liberal party in regards to the military....but that was easy to do when you've been starved for so long by previous governments. But really what projects did Paul start and complete during his riegn...

This whole post is some what twisted don't you think...when you get right done to it..but i truely believe that most here really don't have a single clue on what war is really like, they're perception of a battlefield is like being on the rifle range or back in the 1700's when we used to use line abreast, taking turns shooting at each other at close range....with the town folks turning out on the high ground to watch the slaughter below.... Todays modern battlefield is your worse nightmare x 1000, everything a soldier is taught, or is armed with is for one reason only to close with and destroy the enemy, with any means nessicary...it's full of death and destruction, turning someone into a fine pink mist is not just a colorful military expression it's what happens when a human is hit with a 25 mm round or an RPG...thats right War is our own invention on turning hell into reality.... Soldiers rarely have the luxury of sitting down and comtemplating a problem,for days on end.... should i fire should i wait, is the house occupied by civilians etc etc...no we have split seconds to make decisions....that will effect us all for the rest of our lives....In reality our main goal in life is to take enemies lives, to survive the day, or operation to fight another day...so you look around at all your comrads faces which are as close to you as your own brothers and sisters, and you decide...taking out that mud hut with all those machine guns inside and perhaps some civilians as well ...by fast air or arty strike....or see all your comrads die in the rush to overwhelm the bad guys on foot....you got a split second....times up did you grab the radio, or are you looking into thier eyes for the last time while you shout charge, that postion.....hopefully you'll survive to write all those letters home dear miss bloggins i regret to inform you that your husband , father of your children has died in a heroic dash to kill the enemy....in order to save some civilians that the bad guys had taken hostage....and while it does happen, it's not the norm.... I'll tell you what i did i grabed the radio... I am an instrument of my government and it's people...I've been given orders to limit collatoral damage, but when the lives of my men are at stake, and there is no other chioce to be made, inocent people may die...and i will have to live with that for the rest of my life...every time i close my eyes and drift of to sleep, those moments will replay over and over in my mind... My piont is this there is NO such thing as a clean and concise war....never will be...when we as Canadians send our troops into combat , we are going to kill, bad guys and inocent civilians it's a fact of war....you either don't send us or come to the conclusion that war sucks and people on all sides are going to die....Until you've been in combat you'll never understand, and without that understanding i find it hard for you to judge me or any soldiers decission on the battle field...

I just read the below article and it got me wondering, what was the piont of this article, to have Tax payers start to think what it costs us to have a modern military, or was it just a plug to cause some stir, having taxpayers rethink our entire national defense complex....then i thought it must must of been a slow day in our nations media centers....Here is the opening quote... My linknews.globaltv.com/ Here is what i find thats just wrong or not very objective... Do we all really expect the conservatives to be in office for the next 20 years...not really and with each new government change comes an entirely different plan....so is there cause for concern.... Lets just say the cons do remain in office for the next 20 years, "hey it's my post" and i'm making the rules...Cons are in for the next 20 years....over that time it will cost Canadians a grand total of 7300.00 dollars to keep our current military somewhat modern, but what does that really mean.... It means each tax payer will have to pay 365.00 dollars of his or hers total tax bill each year to keep our current military, and all they provide Canadians... I know what your thinking 365.00 dollars is a shit load of cash...but is it really, shit it would not even cover what most of spend on beer, in fact it does not even average out to one case a month... Still nervous.... Well lets see what we pay on health care, Canadians favorite topic.... My linken.wikipedia.org/wiki/ I know wiki is not the best source, but it does check out with other links...that 5452.00 is per year, so in 20 years thats 109,040.00 dollars per tax payer, and thats not adjusted for inflation or increases, last year alone health care costs rose 5 %....now does that make you nervous... The rest of the article talks about SUbs, and navy helo's ....both purchases were made by polictical parties, trying to be seen as saving a few dollars, was the military even consulted...lets remember that these purchases were made when DND was starving for funds, or any new equipment....when the same old questions came up....We really need AOR's , and destroyers...not Subs....we had a navy helo picked out and contracts signed....all cancelled...in favour of another which is still not delivered...was it the helo the military wanted , were they consulted, or where they just saying just get us something the ones we have are falling out of the sky.... So what is the piont of the whole article, that governmant should stay out of buying military equipment...when they do they make bad decisions, or is it we don't spend enough on our military,

I don't know what is with our olympic mens hockey game....we end up choking ...The swiss should have won that last game...i mean who in the hell are the swiss when it comes to ice hockey anyways ....They had the team to beat last olympics and they almost beat us again this year...should have given the womens team the guys jerseys....would have been a better game...or better yet have the guys wear the girls jerseys...seeing how they play like girls.... Now perhaps the Toronto Maple leafs should send thier scouts to check out the swiss teams.... The mens team will be lucky to see a medal this time out as well....looks good on them....

I think if you took the time and read the entire letter, or article, it might give us all some insite into what is like to be a soldiers wife...a tough task, harder than being a soldier, no hero's welcome, no pat on the back, nobody buying you a beer and saying thanks...just them and the kids being carted around the country from one shit hole to another, lets face it military bases are rarely in the nice to vist areas of the country...left to be both parents...i can relate, my first marriage ended pretty much that way...it's just the way it is when you chose to serve...i takes a very understanding women to put up with the shit a soldiers wife puts up with....God bless them all, even the bitches

This is common practice in the Military, spending for the sake of spending and it needs to stop...

Your right it's not a CPP claw back but a pension claw back. My linkwww.rcmpvetsnb.ca/

I'd be curious to know exactly what immune status PS employees have...Lets just talk about the military for a second, Not that many years ago even the military was told to trim down personal, anyone with any military experience can tell you of the old FRP program, where thousands of military personal where either asked or forced out of the military...even today with manpoower restrictions at it's peak, there is no monies to fill vacant civilian PS jobs, and many reserves have been told they're contracts are being looked at, with alot not being renewed or being canceled... I'm sure that this is the story across the entire government.... As for PS jobs take a look at the most common ones, they are making any where in the neibourhood of 23 k to 36 k annually....and while yes there is jobs in the PS that pay more they are not common or entry level...so not many are getting rich of our tax dollars.... As far as i know every Canadian citizen is entiltled to apply for a PS job, meaning even you could apply and become one of those we love to hate...

Which is exactly what happened in those 73 other cases...Our justice system heard from all the experts, and made thier judgements accordly....and now we have 73 youths serving a max of 10 years for thier crimes, crimes i might add that are deemed very serious....such as Omars.... I do not avocate public setiment guide anything....shit we would never get anything done, much like our governmental sys we have now, if the polls say the people are for it then it gets done.. ....what i do advocate is that justice be served regardless of age within reason of course....

WOW, can you ever feel the love for the public service employees here....But i wonder just who in the public service will be effected....well good question, our military, RCMP, coast gaurd, CSIS,pretty much our entire security appartus....not to mention all those other public servents we all love to hate... Well i can honestly say that after 30 years service to my country, i will not be eating Cat food as a main meal...nor will i be eating steak tar tar or cavier either....I'd like to think that during my service i gave alot more than i received... ask anyone already on a military service pension, and they are probably still working, suplimenting it with another wage....I'm not complaining just stating that nobody ever got rich working for the public service....atleast not down in the trenches, like most of us... perhaps we should all take some time and suck back and reload, the Public services pension fund was raped already from 1999 until 2006 for a total of 29.18 bil dollars....where did that money go ? well it funded most of debt repayment....And while the liberals will lay claim to the deficit reduction, really it was thier idea, but public service funds...as far as i know most Canadians approved of this adventure, but like the liberals really failed to give credit were credit was do....yes those damn public service employees we love to hate....How much of your pension went into debt repayment ? And while we all love to say we pay your wages, though our taxes...yes you do...thank you, but lets also not forget we pay the same taxes as you do, we wait in those same line ups as you do, only add to the list we pay the national debt down as well.... What remains of this pension plan is just over 12.97 bil dollars held in limbo, as the public service had to change thier pension plan so it would not get robbed once again....Lets not forget that each employee pays into that plan as well, most of it is employee monies, I think we would all agree that the government paid portion, or as some have put it "tax payers" portion has been recovered....by the liberals... The new pension plan is still a governmental plan invested in the markets, for what purpose i ask SO that goverment can dip into when they want....to create a larger surplus, in a shorter time space...why even have a pension fund why not call it the deficit plan....and pay our retired public service members straight out of the yearly budget...man we could really pay that down in quick time... I guess to sum up, we should'nt be screwing with anyones pension plan...even the public services plan...

Canada's history is written in blood, our blood, and the blood of our enemies. Canada has a long list of things that would make people blush or little girls pee in thier pants....in fact one would be hard pressed to find any one nation within this world of ours that has not got blood still dripping from thier hands....To sum it all up "what is the piont" ? we are not perfect, lets concede to that piont now, nobody is....All that is left is trying to better our selfs day by day, year by year....to which i think for the most part we do all right....But as long as man roams this great earth, there will be a need for wpns and there will be blood split.... We do what is needed to be done for survival, to protect our current freedoms and rights, our way of life, to preserve our postion within the world, we do it for alot of reasons....we don't have to understand them all completely, and there will be times when yes our hands will get bloody, and those standing next to us will reak of death and destruction... But Canadians will continue to wake up in the mornings fill thier faces with egg mac muffins, timmies coffeee , and go to work and make very decent wages....I don't here of anyone saying holly shit look at what we've done to get here....thats it i quit i'm going to the south pole to live the clean life...

They are not tried as an adult but rather under the youth justice system. Maple leaf forums actually did an article on the youth justice system it's a good read. For some reason today it won't allow me access, but below is the link. My linkwww.mapleleafweb.com

Not 73 wrongs, those 73 are currently serving time, there as been thousands that have been tried and that have served "life sentences " for crimes they have commited....found guilty by a jury, sentenced by a judge. i guess your blanket statement holds no water...or our justice system is completely broken...

I think the justice system has already answered that question , As provided by AM "currently" there are 73 persons that have been held responsiable and accountable for thier crimes that were committed as youths. What makes Omar any different than these 73 ?, his upbringing ?...your not suggesting that we only sentence those with good upbringing are you ? That is not what is spelled out under the child soldier defination, provided by the UN, or it's creator. It does leave provisions for the child to be held accountable and responsible for thier actions....no were does it say they are not culpable, in the legal sense.. What does that mean exactly....he gets to spend his time in a hospital...and those other 73 get to spend thier time behind bars....not because thier crimes where more deserving but rather Omar is a child soldier, and gets a free ride ?

Feds appeal some of the sentences given to toronto 18. This may be good news. My linkwww.thestar.com/news

Some info to ponder on.... My linkwww.theglobeandmail.