Army Guy

Are you saying that Canadians are not keeping up with the total picture of whats happening in Afghanistan ? Then how are they making well informed decisions about this mission ? How can they honestly make any comments at all about the mission.

I think they are the solution, until something better comes along....Tanks form the very piont of the spear, be it in defensive or offensive operations. if there was any wpns system we should be putting money into it's tanks....expensive compared to what...lives i guess this equipment plays a key role into saving lives....and giving soldiers the edge to defeat any of our countries enemies here or overseas....

With todays tech, the soldiers out in the FOB's are getting the latest media before we evern wake up here in Canada, not only from Canada but the world news from both sides, from CNN, BNN, El jerseria , to CTV news, including news from thru out Europe.NATO Soldiers are kept well informed of what is happening in and thru out Afghan to give them better situational awareness....whats working whats not....it's on the media, it's in O groups , in Intel briefs, it's from soldiers floating in and out of our AO....if anything a soldiers knows more about Afghan than he does about Canada... The southern area is a mess and we are right in the middle of it.....when was the last time you heard any bad news coming from the north or western half of Afghan..... Yes it is and our soldiers are right in the middle of it, they have to understand it , most of the times thier is no diplomats around, so our soldiers are the statesmen, padre, go to guys....understanding thier problems and giving them solutions that work for them is what we do....that being said, we are not experts but i can tell you this we know 100% more about the problems than the media is protraying or letting on....

Not everyone fighting for both sides believes in thier cause...in fact alot of fighters fight to put food on the table...remember there has been over 30 years of war in this region, and for most it is all they know....and since the Taliban pay more than NATO does they do get alot of fighters this way....but this is only one of many ways the Taliban recruit....but come harvest time you can see the taliban going home to pick thier crops...leaving behind only the hard core.... We don't have to like everything they do, governments are tempory and soon the people once they have security will make there chioces and votes freely and based on other issues instead of picking a government they hope will provide a somewhat normal sense of security....So while there has been Afghan governmental decisions that we thought where funky, it is still thier country to rule as they see fit....and we should not forget that we are not there to model them into our mould but rather one that fits them, thier customs and traditions....

I just want to state a few facts first, this entire mission is strickly on a volunteer basis....troops are not ordered to deploy and there is plenty of stop gap measures to ensure only those that have stuck up thier hands go on this mission.... I know sometimes this very fact blows by me, but most soldiers have been to one or more of the worlds for the lack of words "shit holes"....countries that it is impossable to discribe the conditions unless you've seen it smelled it, and touched it........so each soldiers knows just how lucky we have in our freedoms and rights and our standard of living here in Canada....they also know how powerful a gift it is to give someone else those or something simlar "freedoms and rights" So it's not that we've been ordered to stand in front of exploding cars and IED's....we were sent to deliver your gift....from the Canadian people an offer of rights and freedoms they have never had before....and unlike UPS we deliver your gift fully armed....

Yes , but because we do not sieze and hold ground, patroling is the only way to some what ensure the enemy does not gain the upper hand or take control back....This can be blamed not by the tactics we use, but rather the number of troops on the ground and the size of our AO. Lossing troops or troops getting injured is a emotional experience, and i can see why he was pissed....but lets but some context into it....NATO has secured the town but has little to no troops in the town long term....Taliban come and go fading into the night leaving behind clear messages to the people "talk to NATO is a death sentence" most of these people are simple farmers, trying to scratch a living out a desert and dust growing anything that will grow...and for the most part they barely exist....The Gen is playing hardball, hopefull it works....but it is going to cost in security of the villagers....and trust me Afghans have long memories...they know we are not there forever... Ramp ceremonies are strictly a military thing that has been some what taken over by the media and blown out of proportion ....it's entire function is to let the military look after it's own, in it's tradtional ways....it's a time for soldiers and comrads to say good bye to the fallen, it's thier time to grieve, cry , let emotions flow....15 mins later most of those soldiers are back outside the wire, or in combat....thier heads need to be screwed on tight....or it will be someones elses turn....And your right in traditional wars dead would be buried near the place the fell, marked on a map, given to graves registration to be dug up and properly buried in a marked sight with thier comrads...back in the day when allieds where taking 1 or 2 thousand cas a day....

Yes NATO has suffer more Cas, but NATO or more to the piont the US has increased thier troop numbers by some large numbers, more soldiers being more active in thier AO (area of operations) is going to produce more cas...but this is not a one sided story, the Taliban are faced with a 10 or 20 to 1 loss ratios.... To Sum up someone could also use those same states and quote we are winning the war by killing more taliban....hence the media spin.... The entire piont here is not what Canadians think about the mission, but rather they are not getting the same info form the media, and our government , to make correct and well informed choices....That is what is frustrating soldiers....and yet thier voice is silent , Canadians don't want to here what they have to say, and when the soldier final gets heard, they are discounted as spouting the party line, or they have been ordered to say that....there is a clear majority of Canadians that say they support our troops .....But How can we say we are supporting them but not listening to them.... is that supporting our soldiers.....we should be atleast at the very minimum be listening, and taking that info into account before making a decision should we not....

Here is an interesting read, i know you've all heard my rants here about Afghan and how important our presence and assistance is ....to both the Afghan people and our troops... globe

Say's who, those that advocated the retirement of hvy armour forces in Canada, those same individuals who are now coming to the conclusion that tanks are playing a vital role in the Afghan mission. Those that are still advocating tanks are past thier usefulness on todays battlefield are full of BS, and have never been on a live battlefield when tank support could have saved lives....that whole idea of going to a MGS sys was a polictical statement made by politicians and bean counters, trying to save a buck....and those Military pers who where saying so where following thier political masters....not advice from the soldiers themselfs... And while the MGS sys might have been a great peace keeping machine " one that would not have to be put into use" or fire a round in anger it was designed for recce forces....not a nations main Hvy armoured force.. To sum it up, because we are a nation that takes years to purcure equipment we need we need to stay focused on the worse case situation IE high intensity warfare , which still demands that each Brigade have a complete tank regt , thats 3 to 4 tank sqns, or approx 40 to 50 tanks per regt....currently we have one regt that operates tanks,the old C4 Leo's ...thats right we are still awaiting the A4 to be modified.... the one out west 1 CMBG, the rest have been converted to lt recce forces ie they run Coyotes , and LUV jeeps....they've taken a powerful tool out of our brigades arsenal for conducting offensive and defensive ops.... We know there is limited dollars out there, and we know our government is trying it's best to fix things....but it is also important that the people know that our military forces are not even close to have the equipment or personal to cover it's commitments that the government has assigned us....that it should be no surprise to them if and when the shit hits the fan, we can not function, or do our jobs....as a result many soldiers will once again pay with there lives getting the job done...because thats is what we do...and that is what the Canadian people do, make excuses until the first soldiers come back in bags then the demand an inquiry and piont the finger at someone else.

Not really those 20 on lease will be returned out of the 100 A4's we purchased, they'll be brought up to A6 standard leaving us with 80 of the A-4's ....those orginal 20 that were leased some of those have recieved battle dammage and are unrepairable, and most of them have already been rebuilt once some twice already...i think they'll be ready for the bone yard in 2011, on top of that we have to subtract those tanks already in the bone yard due to battle damage, and any future losses....so whats left is less than 80....and maybe some A6's after you take war stocks and mission stacks out and armoured school stocks of that there might be 40 or 45 tanks left....enough to outfit or so they are talking 1 tank sqn per tank regt which there is 3 of them, not bad a tank regt with only 1 sqn of tanks the rest of the Sqns are made up of Coyotes .....

What are you saying, did we punish all Germans for war crimes commited by german forces, did we punish all the Japanese people for thier crimes commited during the war....NO we did not WHY, because it is again'st our laws to collective punish any race, group, or organization....and while those that commited a crime, or looked the other way were punished and face our courts...investagations where completed not only by a military investagation team, but serveral civilian ones as well....and as our laws state one is inocent until proven guilty....those that charges could be liaded where liaded, those that stood around and done nothing the military took matters into thier own hands and asked for dozens of early retirements....those that refused well lets just say thier carears stoped, and where taken out of command roles and rode a desk...until they released.... But your right there is no law stating that our government can not creat or disband any military unit it chooses....that being said is disbanding a unit with disgrace is a huge , huge dishonor, one to it's members , the military, and Canadians ....one that will be worn by it's members thruogh out history....Most soldiers in the Regt where outstanding soldiers and did not deserve this... I've told you before it's not a job but a way of life....and within the Army the CAR was what every soldier wanted to be part of the best the nation had to offer...The somolia affair happend in 92, after it's return the army went to great length to clean up the regt, so in 1995 there was not one shit disturber left from the somolia times....all that was left was troops that just wanted to be apart of Canada's elite unit...Canada's CAR.... " Once again they condemn the entire Regt, but can not find any evidence to charge anyone else with any crimes, but i guess they are not responsable by law for what they print on some report, and in this case it's all one mans opinion.... And there are other reports that give kudo's to the CAR for the job they did in Somolia, reports from US spec ops units , reports from NGO organizations reports from other nations....all giving thanks for the regt service in guess where Somolia...i guess though not many have read those, including the judge that made this report.... As the inquiry's report makes clear, the frame of mind among certain Airborne members was well-known to military leaders - and worrisome. One group, calling themselves the "Rebels," acted as though they were a law unto themselves. Against orders, they repeatedly raised the American Confederate flag in their barracks at Camp Petawawa, 130 km northwest of Ottawa. They torched the car of a sergeant who raised their ire. And even by combat unit standards, some Airborne troopers showed excessive aggressiveness in the view of senior officers. Are you kidding me Rebels....shit how many orgs in the states fly the rebel flag...many still honour the sothern army and it's values....raising the American rebel flag thats got to be really bad....and it was not some troopers that where aggresive it was all of them....thats what happens when you recieve elite training from around the globe, US ranger tabs where very common, as was recieving training from US green berets, US Naval seals, British SAS,in fact it was not uncommon for most Airbourne soldiers to have wings from 3 or more countries....i mean lets not forget they where Canada's shock troops....not boy scouts or RCMP officers....and where constantly trained to a razors edge....Aggressiveness was thier job.... This was a Leg rumour that flew around camp....nothing was proven and it is here say....and like our justice system says your inocent until PROVEN guilty...as i believe you've quoted before....every night we were faced with some intrusion into the camp, some where looters and some were somolia militia trying to give back some pay back....for us not letting them Hyjack a food convoy....check the ROE's and tell me at night with 1 st gen night vision gear you can tell the difference between some stealing something or trying to blow something up.... Yes intruders were shot, keeping in mind our entire compound was surrounded in razor wire stacked 3 wide and 3 high one did not have to be a rocket scienctist to figure out we did not want anyone to enter....huge signs where posted on the wire intruders will be shot....I also agree that if one was hungry enough one would try anything to get something to eat....but one would be sucidal if one tried it at the Airbourne camp.... And what ever happen to that inquiry was there any charges laided....NO....but thats not what is inplied here is it....no here you've impied guilt....thats some justice system you got or practice.... read the ROE's and show me were once all conditions have been meet you can't use deadly force at piont blank range....and did anything come of that inquiry....was someone charged NO....once more your assuming things are bad....So either your justice system is broken or the same justice system you've been flaunting is alive and well.... Below is a web site that has been out for years, it's a diary by a 3 commando soldier of his tour in somolia read it and tell me you still think the entire Regt's to blame for those few Bad apples.... I also want to repeat this... our current JTF2 was created around alot of those CAR soldiers, some still serving but a good potion did do just that and quit, if they could not be part of the best they wanted nothing to do with our military or government at the time which had little or no idea what they had done for this nation and Canadians. now your talking out of your ass.... CAR

I stand corrected hard to keep all the Eng equipment straight ... Yes But the A6 are only available in Afghan....we still have not fielded any Leo II A4 yet, still using the C4 versions....the orginal 20 we leased are almost toast, hence why they are building up some of those A4 we purchased to A6 standards for replacements....thats on top of the 20 we still owe Germany for the lease....

Smallc: The husky is not brand new it was orginally purchased in 1976, and those 27 we bought have just come out of life extension projects some 3 or 4 years ago, and are being slowly replaced with a new reworked Bisson MMV repair vehs....but even they are out dated when compared to whats available today.... Alot of equipment has been purchased, in limited qty's, for Afghan mission, one that is under Combat conditions, conditions that burn equipment out at 10 times the rate....so even if the mission ended today that equipemtn we would have not enough of and what we did have would be close to burn out.... I'll use the example of LAV III currently there is only enough Lav to outfit one maybe 2 companies with each BN, there is min of 3 companies per bn, plus a combat support company, leaving a shortfall of 2 companies per bn with 9 Inf bn's in the forces thats a short fall of 18 companies worth of vehs....not mentioning the LAV's used in Tank units which have no tanks so are using LAV's plus Cbt eng units, Arty units ....i think you get the piont . this is just LAV's....the CV-90 are being purchased for the 1 Brigade , which have still the old leopards...which leaves the rest of the army short on hvy assault veh's ...now if they deploy these vehs to say an Afghan type mission this brig will also be short .... I know there is only enough money....which is why it is imperative that during cuts that that cash flow continues as it does add up as we are seeing now we are well behind the bubble...

I think it's a good question one that needs to be answered as well , we after all live in a coutry where the peoples vioce is some what heard and acted upon....it will also go along way into seeing just how much the people of Canada understand what our military does and what it needs to do the tasks assigned. It's not about matching anyones military size, it's about meeting our defense requirements here in Canada, and meeting all those defense agreements our nation has signed.... As for projecting force i think you don't understand the true meaning of force prjection, our militayr does not have the means to project force for any length of time, and it has very limited means of putting boots on the ground.... The equipment we have now or the bulk of it is worn out, outdated, or is very limited in numbers.... The miltary has already outlined in detail all of the tasks we are assigned, they also outlined in detailed what our shortfalls are , our current state the list of critical shortfalls have fallen on deaf ears for more than 20 years now and now this list far exceeds the matter of a few bil dollar fix but rather well into the 100's of bils to just maintain our current levels which is little more than 62 k troops in all 3 elements.....

Waldo: Those are good questions ? sorry for the delay but i needed some time to do some research, that and i was in the field doing some training... The references used are the taskings that has been assigned the military by our very government and the people of Canada, those taskings are listed below in the offical statements of our role....and what is expected of our military... To get an idea of our current SHAPE read the same link which also lists the number of personal used to complete those tasks and there location within our country....you'll quickly come to the conclusion that there simply not enough pers, or equipment to complete all or most of them... * Note At the top of the link it provides the total number of pers within Mobile command or the Army componet of the forces, these numbers are somewhat confusing , for one if you where to add up all thenumbers in each Area, IE west central, Quebec, and atlantic areas you'll find there are approx half that number available in Combat units.... Where they get the total number is from what we call purple trades ie support trades wearing the army uniform which are scattered across the forces, ie Navy, Airforce, Artic Rangers. the true number is less than half those numbers, with the exception of the reserve numbers which are pretty close.... What does this mean it means that the Army componet of the military really only has between 18 to 20 k reg force pers with 18 to 20 k res pers to carry out the bulk of those tasks assigned our military....and our combat componet, or fighting troops is only a third of that which includes Inf, Armour, Atry, Cbt Engs....the Inf componet or the guys that take ground and holds it is a third of that number and that is being very generous.... to give that some context lets take a look at hurricane katrina, where some 40 to 60 k US army pers where deployed and we all know how that turned out, experts have quoted that they needed double that to effectively handle that turn of events. the Small Ice storm a few years back in Que,Ont and NB not only used all available army units within Canada but also dipped heavily into the Airforce and Navy numbers as well...and this was a small turn of events when compared to katrina....and this is only one tasking we are assigned with.... Role and Deployment TOP The Canadian Army is tasked to generate and maintain modern, combat capable, multi-purpose land forces to meet Canada's defence policy objectives. According to the 2005 Defence Policy Statement the following objectives fall under the army's overall responsibilities: Protecting Canada and Canadians: This objective aims to deter potential threats to and defending Canadian territory, the upholding of Canadian sovereignty and provision of military support to civil authorities. The emphasis is on readiness for natural disasters, civil emergencies and terrorist incidents. Defending North America: This objective calls for defence of the North American continent in co-operation with the military forces of the US in accordance with standing continental Canada-US Basic Security Plan. Contributing to International Peace and Security: This objective calls for participation in multilateral land or joint operations anywhere in the world under the auspices of the UN or NATO, or as part of a bilateral or multilateral coalition. There are also provisions for the army to participate in humanitarian aid and relief efforts, restoration of stability, or participation in arms control and other confidence building measures. Specific land forces planning objectives include providing trained and equipped units, personnel and assets to Canadian Special Operations Forces Command (CANSOFCOM), Canadian Expeditionary Force Command (CEFCOM), Canada Command (Canada COM) and Canadian Operational Support Command (CANOSCOM). In terms of capacity, this translates into deploying and sustaining indefinitely two land task forces in two different theatres of operation, while providing a smaller, third task force to reinforce an ongoing mission or to provide a short-term contingency deployment. Other objectives include enhancing capacity to respond to domestic emergencies such as a Chemical, Biological, Radiological, or Nuclear (CBRN) attack and supporting sovereignty and security operations in the Arctic. Role ? I get the impresion that you think 2500 soldiers is a large number, to put that into contect even the Taliban are able to muster 3 to 4 times that number, and they are not a G-8 country, in fact they are not even a country....So the ability to deploy 10,000 soldiers for a long period of time is not so unrealistic....But currently while we are able to handle 2 to 3 k troops it leaves our other tasks very short, of everything.... So what does shape look like currently shape looks like 70 k reg force pers and 30 k res force pers still well below our numbers to do all the tasks assigned....other military experts has suggested that our numbers grow to 100k reg force pers and 40 to 50 k res force pers...i think once you compare those numbers with other western world contries and the size of our nation you'll find they are not so large after all...For a country of 33 million, there is more cops in toronto, than ground forces in our military...I'd say that is a problem....when ones nations military could fit into the home of the toronto maple leafs and still have thousands of seats left over theres a problem....

Bullshit...Why is it Bullshit....Because this is a volunteer war, don't want to go just say so.....or come up with dozens of other reason not to go....nobody force him to go....anyone saying so is a liar.... Lets not forget his family is grieving thier son....thier loss, and may or may not be clearly thinking out exactly what they are saying....and the media is just waiting to suck it up....."finally as soldier that does agree with the mission" front page.... Well he must have agree with something.....first he is a soldier....you know close with and destroy the enemy....not with water ballons and flowers , but bombs and bullets....Secondly he volunteered to go .....that means stepping forward and saying yes i want to go.....And finally if he is married his Wife also has to sign off to agreeing with his going..... So i call bullshit....and this soldier was either lying or is being misrepresented by the media and now you sir....

Not to mention Nov 11, and all them great battles dates such as D-DAY, Dieppe, to name but a few all taken up TV time, or messing with traffic for thier parades and shit.........and don't get me started on all the discounts that them Vets get on airfare, car purchases, free medical care, shit they even got thier own hospital .... and you know it's a conservative propaganda plot again'st all Canadians because the liberals don't use the military....shit they don't even like them....I'm with you man, hey pass me some of that weed....Sooooooooo what great debates is the Canadian public being distracted from again....US health care right......your right lets get out our pickets mannnnn...i'm with ya..... I want to ask you just how much of your tax dollars you think you pay into Afghan mission or for that matter the military.....Considering that last year the bill for Afghan was under 2 Bil.....I think it works out to each Canadian puts in under 20 dollars out of thier total tax bill into this mission.....send me your address and i'll send you your 20 bucks if it bothers you that much..... Japans miltary budget last year was twice as high as ours is. Calling Ireland and Austria a middle global power is somewhat a reach don't you think....

One would have to admit we are always "behind" the 8 ball when it comes to sending the right equipment over for the right job...One of those reasons is there is simply not enough of it...and while there is alot of semi modern equipment in Afghan there is only a couple of examples of this equipment in Canada for the troops to train on.... And while you are correct the enemy will always adapt his IED's to the equipment we are using, we should atleast give our troops a fighting chance, or allow for a open casket any ways ...As for better armour, our LAVs are generation III or third gen....GM is now producing Gen V plus an upgraded version of gen 5 known as LAV -H....much more armour, better wpns, more speed....they are also replacing the T-Lav's ( modified M-113) with perhaps CV-90's but only a handeful will be purchased....

Historically it has always taken the price of soldiers lives to get the government and people of Canada to release the purse strings...what scares me is it may take hundrds more to get our military into shape...what we should be asking is why ?

Justice had nothing to do with the disbandment of the CAR, justice was served when those soldiers where charged in a court of law, where found guilty and sentenced, including those found guilty of not doing anything ....that was justice...the decision to disband the Regt was made to score political pionts, nothing more... I'm curious to know what message was sent....or what message did you recieve....As for the loyality to the rule of law, a soldier is responasable to 2 layers of law, civil law, military law, and to top all of that off the code of conduct within the Dept of National Defense. So i'm sure every soldier is well aware of where the rule of law stands in the grand sceme of things. I'm just not sure how collective punishment fits into this so called rule of law, because it's not in any Canadian law, or inter national law, or for that matter the Genva convention...in fact all of the above laws strictly state that collective punsihment is indeed unlawful....so much for that rule of law being supreme, but i guess that only go's when it seems polictically acceptable to do so....so one would have to ask are you really for the rule of law or are you for whats political acceptable ?

Perhaps you should educate yourself on the Regiment, those responsible for the somolia incident where charged and tried in a court of law and punished....And the others where removed from the military, by the time the politicasl decision was made to disband the entire regt was cleaned up... Your right it's not a boys club....the CAR was our nations elite unit, one comparable to some of the best in the world....in fact alot of it's members went on to serve in what is known as the JTF today, As for it being just another job your wrong....it was'nt a job but a way of life, these men recieved elite training from around the world...and they where very good at it.... Regimental Loyalty may be a childish anachronism to you, but then again how do you explain it to someone that has not been exposed to it....many members spend thier entire carears with the same regt, it picks up where the tax payer leaves off, offering many things not available thru public fuinding, such as loans for those members in need, higher education assistance for dependants, looking after members that have been injured the list is endless.... i guess to sum it up they look after it's members long after the tax payer has forgotton them....and that sir is worth alot for those that give up almost everything in the service of thier country....Lets not forget that these men and women develope a bond that is equal or greater than family. and it's this bond that allows them to do there jobs, knowing that every sacrafice they make will not be forgotten....

Lets talk about due process shall we, since we are talking about ensuring that Mr Khadr has every option available to him to defend himself again'st all the charges brought again'st him here in Canada...and yet nobody has even thought about making it a level playing field ....ensuring that the proscution has the same rights and abilities.... After all we are talking about a battlefield here, they're is no such thing as a combat CSI team, or the net works would have made a 4 th CSI special....Soldiers don't gahter evidence after a fire fight, they gather intel two very different things....we move on to the next battle field or continue the mission....which is what happen here, sure a tape was found some other intel gathered....but not to cover soldiers asses or ensure this wounded Terrorist got a fair trail.... but to see if this intel would lead them to another IED bomb making network.... So NATO may of scewed up a bit trying out these new laws and testing out new conventions by sticking mr Khadr into a pigion hole marked terrorist or illigal combantant....had he been declared a POW legally he could been held for the duration of the war providing he was not guilty of war crimes...and this whole thing would have been where....Canada demanding his return from a POW center , i don't think so... SO they went down the wrong road, and may of lost all abilities to sink Mr Khadrs ship....soon he will test our justice system which is geared towards the criminal anyways....with the victim suffering once again....yes i say victim as Sgt Speers wife is watching this closely, along with those US soldiers that where there that day...and they want to know that Omar and those like him pay a price for thier decisions...they also want to see us as a nation step up to the plate and send a clear message to the world....Terrorist your not welcome here and we support our NATO allieds....

Mine: Yours: Answer the question do you think they had in mind Mr Khadr's rights and freedoms....or was the orginal intent for law biding Canadians. Canadian soldiers Rules of engagement are based upon Canadian law, inter-national law, and all the conventions in which Canada has signed....it governs whom and what our soldiers do on the battle field....MR Khadr was a legal target according to those same laws and freedoms we are speaking about...meaning he could be engaged with deadly force... Perhaps i'm seeing this through the eyes of a soldier....and you thru the eys of a civilian....here is my issue if he meets all the legal means for me to take his life on the battle field then why, is our current justice system which can not find it's ass with both hands, and convict him of some crime to keep him off our streets....let me remind you it is the same justice system that has clearly stated any soldier would be legally correct to kill him, and on the other hand says there is not enough evidence to convict him in a court.... there is a big gap here would you not say.... No, i'm not royalty, nor a demi god, nor am i asking you to kiss my feet or my ass....all most soldiers want is alittle respect , be it on NOV 11 , or a hand shake maybe even a thanks ....i mean even i give out a thanks to all that make my life a little easier....As for having a job like most Canadians , your right i do have a good job and it pays well, much like most canadians, but then again few have a job which requires they put thier lives on the line every day....most Canadian do not have to sign an unlimited liability contract...a contract that states i might have to give my life for my country upon recieving an order, a contract that may see me taker a life upon recieving an order.... As for the SO what....well you've said it all above Soldiers have faught and died for those very freedoms you enjoy today....that same fight todays soldiers are fighting to give the Afghan people today....i think down deep, you know it's it's a big gift, and it's a big deal. The disbandment of the CAR is nothing the miltary takes pride in, nor is it something you should....it would be like tearing down toronto because of a few criminals, and gangs....The CAR regt had a history that dated back to WWII, it's that reputation and all those that where part of that now have been tarnished because of a few individuals....and i know that means squat to you....but to those in the military it means everything....as it means that all there sacrafice blood, sweat , and tears could be erased by the actions of a few some time in the future....in this case those actions of of those that took place during the Normandy landings, and the other countless Airbourne landings thru out WWII, until the present ....is all given a black eye....it's colors now retired, placed in some warehouse, it's traditions forgotten, it's vets remembered not for playing a part in earning our freedoms and rights but rather for a small incident in Somolia some forgotten African country most Canadians could'nt find on a map.... no not a day to rejoice but a day of mourning....all done to score some political pionts.... . I really hope young Mr Khadr lives a long and productive live here in Canada, or what ever country he decides to go to....but if he does decide to exact his revenge as his brother puts it....i hope you can look his victims in the face and explain to them that our need to keep a clear state of mind, to enforce our rights and freedoms trumped they're lives and safety.... Because your version of rights and freedoms differ a bit....from mine here in Canada includes going down to the local store without fear of getting blown up...that some whacko will not use his child to strap explosives to make some political statement or plant IEDs on the side of the road....that they (the terrorist) deserve the right to force there way of life on whom every they wish....sorry thats not freedom....thats living in terror....and current our rights and freedoms are protecting just that, a terrorist....and if need be they (our laws) should be tweaked to stand up to these scumbags....

Thats an interesting twist, dont you think....Using the deaths of dead soldiers who paid the ultimate price fighting for and establishing our current rights and freedoms....but it brings up one question, do you think that they had Mr Khadrs rights in mind when they where orginally written. Do you think they would approve, of us now twisting those very rights to protect a terrorist, allowing him to walk free in the very nation him and his family hate ...the very nation those very same soldiers help build and protect.... I can see your respect for the military runs deep even after you've stated some of your family is still serving....in high ranking postions....in spite of that you print this shit....That Regiment you talk of is the Canadian Airbourne Regiment Disbanded because of a few individuals broke the faith....and for that over 700 soldiers paid the price , along with one of our nations finest combat units disgraced and disbanded....That political decission along with many others set our military back to it's present state now... I think we all see the writting on the wall, if we grant or exericise those rights granted to every Canadain and bring young Khadr back to Canada, he will be set free....Because of lack of evidence or how some of it was gathered....it does not mean he is innocent like the famous OJ Simpson....but at the cost of ensuring everyone's right and freedoms this kid will be free to roam our streets, waiting to exact his revenge....i hope those thatbecome his next victims agree with what you advocate..... The needs of the many out wieghs the needs of the few....

I'am no liberal, but i think he hit the nail exactly on the head with that statement which still rings true today....