Army Guy

Not a limited list , just what the law states, in regards to protests, If they are willing to step it up to include throwing eggs, then they must accept the counter from authorities...once you break the law, then it's game on...Your not protesting but there to start violence. If your protest had any leg to stand on do you really need to throw things...like soldiers standing at attention unable to move or protect themsleves...."that is making a statement" is it not.... All these idiots did was to embarrass themselfs, thier cause, and our country....for a small amount of media coverage...which most Canadians would find thier actions in the plain stupid catagory....

I have no problem with protests, or getting off the couch, and yes i've preached just that in the past... But this protest exceeds those rights and freedoms granted to each of us...Once things get thrown you've crossed the line, and if that is the limit to your protesting abilities then stay home..All your doing is using violence in order to make a piont... The eggs where thrown to get a reaction for authorities, and more media coverage....And we handed that to them on a platter....if we continue to hand it out like candy it will become the norm for fringe groups trying to make a statement...

This group has done nothing but embarrass, themselfs, Quebec, and Canada all in less than 30 mins... What they did forget was this famous french regt was going to recieve thier Royal Colors, one of the highest honors that monarchy can bestow on a unit...A unit that was made up of Quebecors, that have a honorable past.. Regardless if we dislike they monarchy or not, they are still our monarchy like it or not, they are a guest in this country, and we should act accordly, Tossing eggs, and insulting remarks are not actions of a group that wants a solution to thier problems, they where trying to provoke a similar reaction.....We gave them exactly what they wanted "attention"....they should of been swept off the streets and nothing said in the media....

Yesterday i attended the rememberance day in Fredricton N.B and was impressed by the amount of people who showed up, and the welcome we recieved as we marched on and around the memorial...it filled me with pride to see so many and how proud they were of all of us....For that i thank you. To the vets to whom i had the pivilage of sharing a beer or two,at the Legion, Thanks for putting everything into perspective for me, to listen to these men's stories , thier hardships, thier losses...really sank home, thier similarities and differences of both our experiances at war... Anyways i toast you once more, thanks.

I don't mean to sounding like a jerk , but your right, it does not matter if you like them, or if they stand as valid or rational reasons...They are what motivates me into believing that this mission is an honorable one,one worth all the time,effort,blood, sweat and tears our soldiers have given. 1. Defense agreements that we have signed with the USofA, our closest niebour,allied,trading patner. 2. Defense agreements we have signed with NATO. 3. We have a responsability to finsih the job we started, we assisted in removing another government in power in the nation of Afghan, we also have the responsibility to ensure we assist in rebuilding that in which we destroyed, so it can stand on it's own, and defend itself from it's enemies. 4. We've given our word as Canadians, that we where there to help assist the Afghan government to rebuild thier nation out of the ashes of war...I don't recall when we started this whole thing, that we would put a time line on it...Lets remember that it was Canada that offered to help....and our word should mean something...not when the going gets rough we quit... 5. Our nations military reputation, and while this is not a concern for most Canadians, Never in our history have we just stood up and quit because the job was becoming to deadly, or tough...and frankly todays soldiers don't want to carry that around. for serveral reasons. our allieds respect, the Afghan peoples respect, world opinion...remember how Canadains wore that peacekeeping badge around thier neck so proudly. 6. To quit would mean that our blood sweat and tears contribution to this mission would be deminished or for nothing...and the final objective was not accomplished which is freedom, and peace within Afghan... And while Canadians will disagree with this way of thinking some say it will only become a worse situation in the future...you have to remember that the Canadian soldier does not quit, we are picked, trained, and drilled, that quiting is not an opition...it is built into our personalities....We owe it to our fallen to suceed...for us soldiers there is more at stake here than just feeling good about the job that has already been accomplished... 7. Our nation is one that has so much to offer, not just Afghan but the rest of the world as well. But we are a nation that has to be shocked into given anything up, Here in Afghan is a chance for us to show not only the Afghan people but the rest of the world that we are willing to share our freedoms, our values, our wealth to those less fortunate....That we are living up to not only our Defense agreements but also our G-8 responsibilties as well.. 8. Personally in my 3 tours in Afghan i've meet some incrediable people, Afghan military people that have dedicated thier lives and have lost so much in this strugle...Afghan locals that really want some of these freedoms we offer...and to a small girl who i had the honor of sharing my lunch with one day on patrol...these people i would have a tough time looking into thier eyes and telling them we are leaving because our nation has grown tired of this conflict... There are others but i'll stop here...

I thought some of you may be interested in this article, it offers another link to our vets opinions and thoughts. Perhaps tommorow you can join me in a toast of your favorite refreshment to those that have gone before us... My link

The UN did it to themselfs, by crating RO&E that prevented us from stopping tragies before they happened...look at bosina, and the dutch ask them if they have any love for the UN....ask Rwanda if they have love for the UN....How effective do you think our police force would be if all they could do is report crimes...not stop them.... Is it distrusted, got any proof to back that up....The locals can tell you more about the Canadian military than the average Canadian can...so yes i'm sure they know exactly whom they are dealing with at any given time...This is not about are why loved more than the Americans, it's about the taliban and in regards to them yes us and the US and ranked as the good guys..

I think alot of people are missing the piont....It's about taking a few minutes out of your day and remembering those that have gone before us...not just soldiers, but everyone who paid any price to keep our nation the way it is today....be it on Nov 11 or any time of the year...in my opinion thats what counts...so thumbs up to the arts...thanks...

If the whole war was about drugs i'd agree....kind of hard to put a dent in drugs when your still running around hunting bad guys...and what efforts has anyone done to replace the poppie crop for the farmers....got any ideas...or should we just add them to the bad guy lists....and feed them a 5.56 rd as well....

Oleg, i've done a few tours under the UN as a peacekeeper, and i can tell you this i'd rather be a mencenary clone of the US, anyday of the week...than put another blue helmet on and watch as all around me murder and mayhem takes place....And while most Canadians will stand up and say it more respectable , more honorable to do peacekeeping under the UN banner....than to stand up for our Defense agreements, and help our niebors....I'd say they where full of shit... For the first time in a long time soldiers can do what they where trained for. Thats right, you want someone to hand out teddy bears and blankets hire the peace nik's or NGO's....you want someone to close with and destroy the enemy then send a soldier....

Something about harboring the terroist group responsable for 9/11, and not willing to hand over Bin Ladin...And Yes we are talking about Afghan , and I do get your piont... I guess that would depend on what line in the sand you've drawn in order for you to take action....Would it have been enough if those 25 or more Canadians had been murdered in our streets, and what of those over 3000 Americans, What of our defense agreements with NATO, and the US... I've done 3 tours over there in Afghan i can give you dozens of reasons to stay, but thier mine, and you won't like them... IED's is only a method of attack, and they have many...and while it is a favorite it is not thier only method...like i said before 10's of billions are being spent on counter IED measures...but the problem is more complicated than just spotting a hole in the ground...or using a mine detector...hence why research is still ongoing...and while we sent a man to the moon, it did get there over night... As for the Death rate, while it is low compared to the job we are doing, and consider how many ways death can be dealt out in this place...it remains high enough for our government to fork out billions on counter IED, purchase helo's, and other equipment...and if you remember our history that does not come easy, for our government to do...But it has no bearing on why we are here...

Then you must know that disposing of a government of another nation has some responsibilities to it, Getting rid of the Taliban military, and governmental structure was the easy part...if one was to simple do that and walk away, it would not be long for the same type of government to re establish it self, and become a problem once again in the future... We are assisting in rebuilding this nation so we don't leave the job half done. and don't have to come back in 6 mths to do it all over again. For ever counter measure we take they take one as well, it's to bad our research costs bils of dollars and thier consists of putting more explosives in a hole....IED counter measures market is worht 10's of bils of dollars, in research alone, and triple that in equipment purchases across the NATO market. CDN military has a small sampling of almost everything out there from vehs to jammers to what ever else you can think off. and while they have had good sucess in finding IED's the solution is never 100% accurate, you rarely find the media reporting on all the ones found and disarmed just the ones that detonated.... One has to remember that an IED can be as small as a hand grenade or as large as serveral thousand pounds of explosive... and man has not invented a veh or piece of equipment that can stop the destructive power of those large devices....As we build better vehs and equipment they build bigger bombs....

I don't think that will solve our problems, there are other super powers that will quickly fill the void that will be left....It's a catch 22 situtation, i think that atleast by funding these countries that the west as some power to atleast somewhat control these nations and thier actions...And if another super power has influence over them do you not think they will use that to thier benifit. Discrimintory laws, such as which laws ? and which wars of aggressions ? DO they want more influence , Hard to tell in Iraq, Afghanistan...and many other muslim countries, that where given that freedom to choose any form of government they wanted, and it was served to them on a platter and yet they have chosen violence over freedom.... The Controling government and controling religious groups are linked they are as one. as you've said here and this is done to control thier population, it is done to spread thier message and right now that message is the west is bad, and needs to be destroyed...And millions are buying into that, as the conditions are right, lack of education, poor standard of living, etc etc .... Iran is one of the more liberal Muslim countries in the Middle east, but one can not say the government there has total control over the country, Religion has an iron grip and overall control...and will always have...If the people truely wanted to exericise thier power and wanted thier freedoms they would have done so years ago....Iran's struggle with the west is only a distraction to keep the people focused , not on thier freedoms but rather thier hate of the west... Wiki , CIA handbook, there are plenty of other refs if you like however Egypt is listed as a Semi-presidential system one that requires the people to vote, sound democratic to me....and while they're may be flaws in thier government one has to admit, it is a change for the better...

Here is some interesting reading, about Islam. My link

Right now your are looking at this for one side on the fence "OURS", and while we do deserve our share of the blame for this problem, it is a 2 sided street. I presently don't see a western nation capable of a Holocaust type event or crime do you....Awhile we will probable not share the same bed or house for some time i don't see muslims being rounded up here in America and shipped off to camps... I also would not class this Islamophobia as hate either, very concerned yes, maybe even dislike, but hate NO... I disagree, Those Muslim countries that are radical or becoming radical are not doing it for more freedoms, but rather to surpress those that do want those freedoms, ...And they are using religion to control thier populations...Such as the Taliban, Iran, Syria, the list goes on....and i'm sure that if you peeled the layers of control away, we might just find that is is the religion that controls the nation, not the government or dictactor, etc etc......Iran a prefect example... The west supports and gives aid to most of the Middle east, and most muslim countries...those not supported by the west get thier aid or assistance from others such as Russia or China...Threaten to cut this aid would only see them making a deal else where, and becoming even more hostile towards the west.... Last time i checked Egypt was a democractic country, Your staraegy is flawed, these approaches have been tried, and very few have amount to anything with good results, Egypt might fit into that catagory...I think there may be alot of dislike out there for Muslims, but i know we are away off before we start rounding them up for camps.... Actually i said we've tried everything, and i did not know the solution...Anything is possiable, If western nations could defeat an entire army of Iraq in weeks , can you imagine if NATO decided to get serious with a total deployment.

As it has already been stated, alot "NOT" all of these muslim countries are poor by western standards, perhaps it is thier way of coping with todays modern world, that is changing every day, These countries do not want change, and that is reflected in thier religious teachings or as we discussed thier interputation of thier religion to suit the times and thier needs....keeping in mind that most of these countries have adapted religion in with thier governmental controls over the people... That and the fact that the western world is seen as the enemy for serveral thousands of reasons, our medling in thier affairs, our stance with Israel, our wealth, our power over the global economy, and world events....it all adds up..without the means to solve these or counter these problems they turn to. Both sides are not about to chnage in the near future, and clashes are going to become more frequent.

How about tougher sentences for those that do commit crimes with fire arms...

Some of these "areas" span entire countries, and these people of trust or postions of power influence millions, in these countries religion makes up a huge part of thier culture and who they are...which can be changed slightly but over generations. Both, Islam and christianity have been clashing since the beginning of time, and as islam develpoes into a more radical religion, and christianity is developing into the opposite direction they are bound to clash more often...In the since of todays communication, travel, media, etc etc small events that may not have had any impact on a global basis are effecting everyone now on both sides of the fence, Muslim and Christians, which seem to validate our growing concerns, doubts, and anger towards each other... What is the solution, the end state, other than global war...there is none that could be or would be effective..I mean explusion, Quantine, would all just bred more resentment,more anger....every solution that has been tried todate has failed, including war.... back to square one So like a circil what is it we do ?

Islam is not just a religion, but a way of life...and when it is presented by people in a postion of trust such as iman, governments, etc etc ....who's interputation is violent then the religion and it's followers becomes violent... add to that lack of education in some areas, blind faith, local conditions,poverity, war, world events...it all boils down to what we see today...

For the same reason that Sir Bandalot has clearly pionted out here...Take this conflict for instance an overall majority of Canadians were in fact in favour of this mission, mind you it was the lesser of two evils, when they decided on it, ....and here today the majority seem NOT to support the mission....although they are willing to vioce thier opinions at the supper table or dinner parties, they are not willing to do anything meaningful to see thier new beliefs through....in other words they talk a good game, but still want to remain on the bench. As for the politicians, they are as trust worthy as we the people make them....They govern the way they do because we let them...How many Canadians out there actually follow politics, would you say the majority of Canadians....and if they are not following the way this country is being run then they deserve what the government gives them...And if we are not going to take them to task for any wrong doing or decisions we don't like then what gives us the right to bitch and whine or piont fingers at what we don't like... I've said many times here that the Canadian people are our safety net, in regards to keeping our military up to par in relation to the taskings that we are assigned...todays military state is in poor condition, as you've said so yourself. So ask yourself would you allow the these same people to make the decision if we go to war or not....judging by the state of our current military, i'd say no.... I think it's spelled out pretty clear in the above para's, the entire apparatus that makes this country tick have let itself down, and currently i'd much rather that power that decides how our nation is run , who makes the policies is much better left to the politicains....as alot of Canadians can not even get off the couch to manually adjust the TV much less vote on topics that require them to do research and homework on....This entire Afghan mission is a prefect case example...

Well said...The people of Canada are our nations Military safety net, we depend on you for our safety as much as you depend on our support for yours... this is exactly what the lawyer from ottawa did his lone vioce was heard, and our government was forced into action...into making changes in regards to this conflict....The power remains with the people if the government wants to remain in power...unless you allow the government to run this country the way they want, such as what is happening today....then we deserve exactly what is giving out...And we need to stand up and own that decision...because that is what we want, or will accept.....

Ah yes another man of action, I'm not blaming anyone for any decisions....in fact Eyeball i supported the decision so, much i volunteered not once but three times to serve in Afghan....i call that springing into action, so for a man that does not support the mission , other than expressing yourself here, what have you done, in regards to making a change to support your beliefs....All i'm saying if your not willing to stand up for those beliefs then really your just mumbling into the wind. And going with the flow.... Your missing the piont here once again, your mumbling into the wind, because your not willing to hold our government to the task, sure you'll mumble but not not willing to get off the couch and do something about it....Those that have done something about thier beliefs are tiried of the whinning and complaining...and now want to here your silence...or see your action.....there is more to being a citizen than just paying taxes....i don't think i can make it any clearer....

If we are going to assign blame then one must also have the balls to stand up and own our share of it...We all know how our government works, what drives it into action, what puts problems on thier radar screen...Thats votes, and public opinion, and in the end each party will do what needs to be done in order to get them re elected...and according to recent polls a majority of Canadians do not support this mission, but here is the catch they are not willing to take action on thier own to press the issue, sure there is small protests here and there, but nothing in the numbers required to make changes, or have our government take notice.... Same with the pro war movement, thier has been many actions that they have taken to prove thier piont, however, nothing that will tilt the scale in thier favour... But this is typical Canadian behavior, we allow our government to basically run the country as "they" see fit, election promises don't mean shit....and change on a whim, It's like Canadians have lost faith in our entire way of governence, and refuse for the most part take up thier role in how our country is run...to use thier given rights to make changes...But we are content to allow our government to do the things they do, were like a beaten dog....yes we will whine and even piont fingers...but in the end we will except what our government feeds us , and moan and groan and then the next day ask for more....I'm starting to think it is something that defines this new generation of Canadians... So while we demand our government to live up to it's part, we must not forget that we also have a part to play, and it does not just end at the voting booth, hoping our government does the right thing.... That is how our system works, Ask that Ottawa lawyer how it works, one man made a diference his vioce was heard and our government took action...if you stay on the couch and say nothing then you allow the government see govern as they see fit... My piont is this, if Canadians are not willing to take the action required to drive our government into action one way or the other then step aside...that is my piont...because now we have status qoe, and are in limbo, Yes the war effort is getting some funding, not enough to sway it in any major dirrection....and all it is doing is making our soldiers suffer....Hence why i have said many times this is not a Canadian conflict or mission....it is our soldiers conflict, we own it, we are putting all the effort into it, we are making it work very slowly but it is still working....we have been forgotton by the other half of Canadians....In the end we all want the same thing to come home...soldiers want to win it then come home , it is what we do, it is built into who we are...for a majority of Canadians they are tired of the conflict, it eats up to much of thier time, they want to move on...it is who they are... I guess the ball is in your court, it's time for you to dance or sit back down....Every Canadian soldier that serves in Afghan is clearly making a statement, and is clearly doing what it takes to ensure we remain on mission...as for us thier is no rallies we can attend....instead we sopeak by volunteering for another tour....We've been dancing for 8 years now....i don't think it would be to much to ask if you took your turn....not only ensuring that our soldiers are looked after....but our best interests are as well.

Very nice , the entire forum has a new look , that is second to none...Job well done sir.

Very nice , the entire forum has a new look , that is second to none...Job well done sir.