Army Guy

I hear you there, use to start her training at 0430 AM , nothing like a good morning jog in minus 20 to build some character, or hear her character.....What MOC ....No fickin way would i want her to be infantry, don't get me wrong i love the corp but that does not mean i want my daughter to be one of them.....not in this life time, She's an Admin clerk in Pet, bad enough shes married a RCD guy...

Is there a different degree of self-stigma for a CAF military person than might exist within the general public? Sure there is , most of these guys are Warriors, been in Combat, lived in conditions that would make a rat puke, hauled a 140 lb rucksack through the mountains, they as tough as your going to get, and they know that...like i said it's veiwed as a weakness in one self. If a CAF member comes forward, and seeks assistance... how might, or how does that action, if extrapolated into a resulting medical mental health issue diagnosis, impact career placement/advancement within the military? Your carear is put on hold,unitl you heal of course it depends on just how severe your mental health issues are. the more treatment you require means time away from the job. spend to much time away, then your carear will start to slide. someone else will be brought in, you'll be forwared to a unit that is call JPSU, this unit is where they go to allow you the treatment and time to heal...we call it the place people go to disappear...not many people come back from JPSU, they for the most part end up released. Is a military member undergoing treatment, or successfully treated, viewed any different or treated any different by the CAF employer I would have to say yes. to those under going treatment. and no to those that have been successfully treated.

It's a good question, for serveral reasons, it is carear ending, Military is not a job but a life style, for the most part we get to do things that most only dream about, fly planes,jump from planes,drive tanks, boats and ships, blow shit up, be part of a team of people that think and live the same. We are talking about A type personalities, that eat this shit up....Yes we know that there is the ugly side, war and death and destruction, but really how often is that asked of us....It's like being an indy car driver, as long as you can do the job your a super star, as soon as you can't who wants to hire a used Indy car driver.... Supporting our families, times are tough even tougher in certain parts of the country, a Cpl making 50 k a year is going to find it tough finding anything in the maritimes paying anything close to that..Next to being a soldier all i ever wanted to be was a dad, a father to support a wife and kids....not many employers will look at a guy with mental health problems....bringing home the beacon is another driving figure. Starting new is starting from scratch not many companies hiring tank drivers, or Airbourne infantry soldiers. so a whole new skill set is required...meaning schooling all the while supporting a family....I know welcome to the real world...alot of people have over come this problem...yes they have but have they had PTSD....that puts a whole new dimension to it.

DND spends alot of time and effort into just the programs you talk about, and while we are all better trained to recongize the the five w's in preventing suicide, there is little you can do once your afficted with mental health issues, that training does not mean squat to that individual... DND has care just not enough of it. and what is there is not readily available all the time. The self stigma,will always be there until DND or the Government does something about it. Most mental health issues are carear ending. Even more so now with cut backs being thrown around force redutions being talked about. these guys are being treated for maybe 2 years on the outside then asked to move on...wait until the cut backs arrive, these guys will be one of the first to go. Thats would be scary for any normal adult, try one with mental health issues that is has a Type A personality, with no real skills out side the military, and has a family to support and family that is depending on him or her..many perfer to live with the pain say nothing feed their families...

I joined over 30 years ago, when mental health was a 4 letter word, rarely did you hear of anyone have issues with it. i say rarely in the latter stages of Yugo was when it became known and even then an indiv soldier might know of one or two cases. Today a Plt of 30 guys 10 might have various mental health issues. And while that may be because there is more education on the topic, and more efforts to change the stima of mental health problems. Perhaps i did not discribe it enough, but as well in drops in Phyiscal standards, there is a equal drop in mental standards. recruits are not stressed to the breaking pionts any more, it is much more relaxed. When i joined our instructor staff would be A WO, SGT, 4 MCPL, and 8 Senior Cpls, all would tag team the recruits to ensure stress and phyiscal levels were always at there peak that was for 130 recruits, of which only 60 or less would graduate. today instructor staffing is half of that, and 100 to 110 will graduate. Stress levels were kept up for a reason, to weed out the weak,the lone wolfs, and the mental unstable giving recruits minimum sleep, 2 to 4 hours a night, head games,lots of head games telling recruits the truck is around the corner after marching for 10 kms already only to round the corner and see NO truck, and march the remaining 10 kms back into camp.... Today there is only enough stress placed on the recruits as the weakest man can handle... How does this translate into more mental health issues, thats easy alot of those guys would have been weeded out in the recruit process, or further trades training.

My middle daughter joined a few years ago, she had a severe lip on when i refused to sign her papers until she could complete 50 push ups and 50 sit ups, and run a 10 km in under 1 hour along with a few other things (i know i'm a dick, but i'm also Infantry)....lets just say we both put in alot of extra hours trying to get her into shape.... Her first PT test during Basic training was to complete 7 push ups and 7 sit ups....She phoned me that week to once again complain why did you push me so hard....until she hit trades training, and her instructor a Clerk ( that was a good buddy of mine) was giving out 50 at a time.....i got a phone call that week, she said she sorry, and thanked me for pushing her....

The problems our Military have been facing over the last 10 years or so, have been highlited on the media dozens of times, and nothing gets done, why is it that Soldiers must die to make a piont or spur some sort of action....why can't Canadians just open their eyes and see it for what it really is .... Piont taken, i will stop using the Support the troops slogan. Perhaps you can tell me how you can show support for the military , and yet still be a strong advocate for dismantling some of its key capabilities and slash funding....

I would not say that exactly, the newbies have no idea what they are getting into, much like a down hill ski jumper seeing the jump for the first time scary, but he has trained along time for this event. he wants to prove himself and his training....for the others that have done multi tours sure we know what we are getting into, we also know there is nobody else...to say no we are not going , would mean leaving the military. but you see it is not just a job, it is a life style, where the men and women you work with are not buddies, or girlfriends but people who you trust your life with...the bond is much more deeper... deeper than brothers and sisters in some cases...a bond so great you would volunteer just so you could protect them. and would feel responsiable if anything would to happen to them if you did not go. Soldiers don't get to pick which conflict they want to go to or don't want to go to....yes if your contract is up then you can choose to leave. but leaving something you love is very hard to do for most. when i say love...i don't mean the killing, or the war crap.. but rather the people, and the life style.

I think everyone is focused on it because their is more media coverage on the topic, you have to remember it was not until the 80's were you could even talk about PTSD, or what ever they called it then, it was considered a sickness for the weak...and nobody wanted to be weak, so you suffered in silence. Afghanistan was a totally different war, we did get shelled, or mortared, regularly, but not anything on the scale of WWI or WWII or korea. Afghan was like fighting ghosts, no one wore uniforms, they used men, women, and children in their fight again'st us. they commited hellish war crime offenses, to every side including their own. it was a war of frustration, rarely being able to stand toe to toe with these guys. Hard to explain...All wars are the same death and destruction , but your right some are more intense than others.

In my opinion i would say, Yes the current recruitment process and standards contribute to the boon in mental health issues that plague DND. You can't soften up what was once very tough standards and not expect it to have an effect later on down the line. As for offical recongition of the problem, no one has laid out the contributing factors but they have reconginzed the problem, CDS went on national TV just a few days ago, and gave a speach, all military members got an E mail from him as well, and it was not to wish us merry X-mas...why was that.... Regualr mental health check ups,are being done, they consist of a lenghty quaterly mental health questionair, a vist to the Padre, and at the end of the tour you get to sit down with a someone in mental health ( not a doctor) but staff , to talk about the results of your mental health Questionair, normally about a 15 min secession. Anyone that is not looking for help will rarely get picked up by mental health staff...So when DND official releases it is doing things they are with the funding available. Your sources are all over that map, less than the national average, then 1.5 times the avg, let me ask you this were i work there is approx 500 of us, i can quickly name you a dozen people who has taken thier lifes in the last 5 years, i'm sure that number would double if you took the time to do some research. Can you do the same. suicide risk was independently associated with male sex, mental disorders (depression, manic-depressive disorder), alcohol-related problems, but not with military-specific variables - none of the deployment-related factors (combat experience, cumulative days deployed, or number of deployments) were associated with increased suicide risk. I'd call the above Bullshit, for the record i am not qualified a mental health expert nor i'm i a doctor. But the guys i've seen with mental health issues were good and healthy people before deploying, smiling no issues at all with drugs and booze. not the case now, Saying that Combat is not a contributing factor is well plain horse shit...it is the main factor....the proof is above...these guys that had not experienced combat yet were laughing joking, had productive and happy lives before they went over, and now some of them are suffering from PTSD all were changed by the experience. Like i said i am not sure why everyone does not get it, but it does not dismiss the fact that being in combat is were they got it. If you had seen what we have seen and then told me that it did not have an effect on you i'd call you a lair.

Actually recruit numbers were up for most of the Afghan war. recruits were not the issue, as for the most part you had to be a QL 5 or Cpl ( someone with min of 4 years training) to ask,so recruits never got to go, you had to have some training it was not until the later end of the war, that they started taking senior ptes someone who has 2 to 3 years experience. All that being said there was extensive training that each soldier had to complete and pass.(work up training prior to deploying normally 6 or more months.) Screening was done every month or so through out, but training for battle and combat are 2 separate worlds, don't get me wrong training was very realistic, but at the end of the day, the dead stood up, and nobody got blown apart. I know in the Combat units the cock was belt feed, meaning stress levels were as hard as someone could make them, it was never the easy way, always the hard way. nobody complained because the vets in the crowd would would tell us this is easy, wait until you get there.... Screening can only go so far. One thing you have to observe is training is like training for an olympic event, you train hard and long for 4 years , you want to see or validate your training, soldiers are for the most part type A personalities, they would sell their grand mothers to prove they're training. and in doing so could tell screening officials everything they wanted to here plus giving grannies address and phone number. It should also be noted, that within the Combat arms you can find guys with 8 or more tours, and easily find dozens with 4 or more, and it is common to find 2 or more. Canada has a small Army, almost everyone within the army has atleast one tour. Don't get me started on todays Basic training standards.

Derek makes a very valid piont here. all Standards have been changed to reflect the next generation a more touchy feelly, gamer type, while true tech has pushed us into a much different generation, Gamers are needed. but so are kids that are healthy, and fit, perhaps we should not have taken out the mental aspect of the old training.

I agree with you totally, most Canadians do not understand what shape their military is in, nor do they care they see it as a dept to starting with the cutting. True enough, but is because we are moving along with the tech developements, we get more digitized and connected the amount of info that needs to be processed is much more greater than say our last days in combat. when a Bn Co could run his Bn out of a universal carrier,or small bunker with 3 or 4 staff. I think we both know the answer to that, better trained and equiped is better. however that is provided those saving that come from the reduction are indeed put to use equiping and training those troops and are not just scooped up in the next budget cuts. And we both know that those 50 k left to do the job, are going to be busy puppies, our government always has taksing for us to fullfill regardless, or size or equipment. what i do see is burn out, a faster turn over rate which is not good for gaining experience. Along with Manpower, the equipment will also face the same thing, because they will buy less of it when we need more of it... Army has already started to take drastic measures to save money, i'm sure it will soon hit the media, but life in the military is in for a big change....and from a dept that teaches change is good, it will be too much for most of it's membership, and when FRP force reduction rumours come true, i think the CDS will be surprised at how many jump ship. and like the last FRP he will be making phone calls to many offering their jobs back.

Lt Col David grossman , Read serveral of his books the one you mentioned and "on Combat" in fact just before we went on tour he was a guest speaker i'd seen him twice, and the man can speak and knows everything there is to know about this topic. It did prepare me for certain things , but other things you just had to live through to understand. 'I know there was a few times the light came on and i had said to myself thats is what he was trying to explain"

PTSD has many levels, but yes a person suffering from a severe form is side lined, as they are not functional.

This is a major problem, Gen Hillier had a policy, if a wounded soldier could be retained he would, even if DND had to retrain them. This was done to give the soldier some hope, because most soldiers love what they are doing, losing a leg or mental illiness meant having to leave....Now since Hillier departure this policy is not followed, why because we are getting ready for huge cuts...with smaller numbers in DND you need to have all of them fighting fit...everything has a price... I talked to a freind who works down in JPSU, a military organization that helps wounded soldiers, he says that there is dozens upon dozens of mental health cases here in Gagetown alone, some are working with civilian companies, some are just sitting at home, some are going back to school to get retrained....and while you are right some what there are numbers that will never return to DND , but there is a number that do return to DND.

Thanks CC, Born and bred here, it's good to be back. and yes i just got them on during our last snow storm.

I think the nightmares everyone has, an old korean vet told me over a few beers, Son your always going to have them dreams, what you have to do is make friends with those ghosts...because they are never going away...Since then i still have my dreams they are not as violent as they used to be, or as frequent. No it's not new, it's been around since the first days of combat, it's been called lots of things, but it has for a long time been considered a cowards sickness, or sheer laziness, Gen Paton actually slap a pte in the face that was suffering from Shell shock called him a coward etc etc....it's always been considered a weak, unmannly, sickness...i remember joking about it with the troops in Afghan "saying if i came down with PTSD for someone to shoot me"....what an idiot i was....Because they're may of been someone there struggling with this, and i was making sick jokes.... your right solidarity is strong in the military, police and EMS, because we all go through the same stuff, and yet we fight this sickness alone for some reason. I think that is one of the main factors right there. doing it alone.... There are many programs in the Military, the one you mention does have Canadians on it, it is normally reserved for those with amputations but it is paid for by the military , some other programs is and i forget the name but it has to do with Dogs, this program as simple as it is has help dozens of soldiers return to some what normal life...One of the main issues the Military is having is getting the amount of doctors and nurses trained in mental illiness, many of the shrienks are civilians and offer their time free of charge, but that only goes so far, wait times can be months, and with treatment taking years this problem compounds daily. I hope the government and people take notice, before more die, and not just military, but police fire fighters ,EMS techs, everyone that suffers with this affiction.

I hope that something changes for the better, as more and more people come out and yalk about this.

Leslies report is a good report, i think that there are serveral reasons it has not gained traction. 1) A lot of the higher chain of command are scared that as soon as extra funding is found, it will not be used for DND shortfalls in other projects but scooped up by government to make further reductions in servicing our debt. This has happened in the past, if there is a smell of surplus it is quickly scooped up. with no gains to be had. 2) Some are like Retired Gen Hillier, they think that many years has gone into building these HQ's into the palaces they have become so that planning and decision making can happen in a short order and effect operations that are happening all over the globe. Destroying these will set back the military. 3) I personal think there is bigger fish to fry that to look for small cuts here and there. Currently there is talks in major force reductions which is going to effect everything within DND. and making small cuts is not going to defer any of these cuts. I get that something must give, the government is not going to properly fund DND in it's hour of need, i also get that Canada has to do something about the debt. and nobody wants higher taxes. shit our government can't spend what it has now. I see these Major cuts as an end to everyones dream to have a military of over 70,000 pers. i think that like all the last major cuts DND will be hurting DND for experienced people,much need equipment, and will spend years if not decades to regain it. I know the Gens have said we will be able to afford a smaller military with newer equipment, but will this tiny force be able to accomplish all our needs be it NATO, NORAD, we can barely deploy 3600 troops for any length of time, reduce that by a third and what will we be able to do....

Sorry for the delay in posting this post, I was caught up in in my job. This week the Regiment is busy buring another one of it's comrads, he was respected soldier by all in the Regiment, my only regret was i did not know him. I won't mention his name out of respect for the family, as they are suffering enough with his loss. He took his own life because he could not deal with his pain. Which must of been incredible for him to end it all, leaving behind his family and friends must have been a painful decision in itself. There was a time i used to think sucide was the easy way out, a way for cowards,who were not tough enough... Today i know that is not true, Stories from those who did know him affirm that he was a warrior, a soldier who had seen combat and lead his troops in battle, never once waivering from his duties. He is not alone his name is on a long list of names of Warriors, Canadian soldiers who answered our nations call on more than one occasion that could not live with the pain they are suffering with. These men and women have brought their own piece of the war back home with them. Suffering from various forms of PTSD. This week i'm told there are 2 addition soldiers who have taken their lifes, and one more attemted suicide. I don't know much about this sickness, or condition, but i am going to make it a priority to find out. I not sure what triggers it, why some get it and others do not maybe we all have it and just have better coping skills again i'm not sure, i do know that everyone that has been on a tour has come back changed, enough that there loves ones notice right away. War has that effect on you. I wish all of the families my heart felt best wishes. And to my comrads in arms... We have overcome all obsticles placed in our paths be from our enemies or friends, we've done this by sticking together, fire team partners for life my Sgt Major used to say, lean on us, were brothers and sisters with a bond that is hard to shed. your never alone....

I think the edvidence is right in my post, unless you think that classrooms are not getting bigger, teachers dom not have the time to spend on "slower Kids" although in some schools they do have programs that help children that are having problems, it is not available to all schools, and it's during school hours. I agree that it is proable not best for a young child to experience being held back, But a high school student that will enter the work force in the very near future what does he get from being pushed along with his peers, what life skill are we teaching him or her. Because in the real world it is not like that, your based on your merits, performance, and skills, if you have none then your not advancing any where. What skills are we giving them when the proceed to university, collage, or other form of higher education.

Violence is part of it, it is part of the attraction of watching a good check will draw a postive response from the crowd, in some cases changes the game, same as football, take out the hitting etc and it will become a womens sport...like tenis,etc etc...i think it is integral to the game. there is a whole industry built around it, greatest hits, greatest fights,etc....Ask don Cherry...i agree there is more to these games but vilence is built into these sports...

I agree with your certain aspects of your concept, but it also has flaws such as pushing kids that are not ready for the next grade, and with classroom sizes getting bigger teachers in short supply where do they get that extra help to catch up.... Does there need to be a cut off, in age or grade.. because we both know that the real world does not work like that if you are not performing then you are not going to get that promotion etc....At sometime we also need to teach them they are responsable for thier actions....and they will not be pushed on to the next level...

I don't think hockey or football will be banned anytime soon, there is to much money to be made, those with injuries will be paid out and put out to pasture, and sport fans around the world will continue to watch, why because it is Violent,and thats why the fans watch.